I firmly believe we need a coach with a pedigree, a track record of success and someone that has been a HC before. Someone that has a record of winning. I would much rather have that type of coach, then the next "hot" coordinator. Honestly, we need to find the next Bill Parcells, not the next Gary Kubiak.
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Idzik's state of the team
LIJETFAN- Honorary Air Commander
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- Post n°626
Re: Idzik's state of the team
If we don't draft a new QB next year, we could be looking at another year of Geno Smith. I don't think Kubiak is that great of a coach to be honest, and he is not someone I would want here. The Texans underachieved with him as a HC. I don't see the Jets going after a journeyman QB, that doesn't make much sense. There really aren't any out there.
I firmly believe we need a coach with a pedigree, a track record of success and someone that has been a HC before. Someone that has a record of winning. I would much rather have that type of coach, then the next "hot" coordinator. Honestly, we need to find the next Bill Parcells, not the next Gary Kubiak.
I firmly believe we need a coach with a pedigree, a track record of success and someone that has been a HC before. Someone that has a record of winning. I would much rather have that type of coach, then the next "hot" coordinator. Honestly, we need to find the next Bill Parcells, not the next Gary Kubiak.
football51- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°627
Re: Idzik's state of the team
VERY long read here, but see if you can draw comparisons on how the Jets are covered(especially Manish's coverage of Idzik).
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120572/adrian-wojnarowski-how-basketballs-reporting-machine-gets-his-scoops
Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 6h 6 hours ago
And that is for a top flight guy, nevermind how it works for reporters who get increasingly desperate and need to reach for content
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120572/adrian-wojnarowski-how-basketballs-reporting-machine-gets-his-scoops
Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 6h 6 hours ago
And that is for a top flight guy, nevermind how it works for reporters who get increasingly desperate and need to reach for content
Sarge- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°628
Re: Idzik's state of the team
Well, you either have to draft a QB, sign a journeyman free agent, or go with what you have. I don't think there are any other options
SackExchange- Moderator
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- Post n°629
Re: Idzik's state of the team
You could make one, for around six million dollars. And he could have a mechanical arm.Sarge wrote:Well, you either have to draft a QB, sign a journeyman free agent, or go with what you have. I don't think there are any other options
football51- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°630
Re: Idzik's state of the team
SackExchange wrote:You could make one, for around six million dollars. And he could have a mechanical arm.Sarge wrote:Well, you either have to draft a QB, sign a journeyman free agent, or go with what you have. I don't think there are any other options
Seaver- Pilot
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- Post n°631
Re: Idzik's state of the team
LIJETFAN wrote: If we don't draft a new QB next year, we could be looking at another year of Geno Smith. I don't think Kubiak is that great of a coach to be honest, and he is not someone I would want here. The Texans underachieved with him as a HC. I don't see the Jets going after a journeyman QB, that doesn't make much sense. There really aren't any out there.
I firmly believe we need a coach with a pedigree, a track record of success and someone that has been a HC before. Someone that has a record of winning. I would much rather have that type of coach, then the next "hot" coordinator. Honestly, we need to find the next Bill Parcells, not the next Gary Kubiak.
like it or not.....even if they draft a QB.......he won't start....so they have to decide between a journeyman and/or more Geno. IMO, Geno's only chance is Idzik staying on. Of course the only selling point for Geno is him keeping the seat warm for the guy they drafted.
Now if Idzik goes.........bank on a FA QB or a trade for one......and they will draft one or more.
Blindsidebrick- Honorary Wing Commander
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- Post n°632
Re: Idzik's state of the team
Sarge wrote:I am going on record to say we won't have either a new GM or new QB next year. Have I been wrong before? Of course, but that's my prediction
Prediction is based in part on the hunch we won't get Winston or Mariota and that Darrell Bevell or Pep Hamilton is the next coach. If it's Kubiak or a defensive coach, I can see them looking for a journeyman interim style QB
I agree about the GM part. I think the Idzik speculation and "sources" is unsubstantiated. Woody may clean house, but at this point, I think it'll be limited to the coaching staff. The fact that Cimini and Mehta are calling for Idzik's head just reinforces that, for me.
Not so sure about Geno. He's been a tale of two QB's: horrifically bad, and glimpses of very impressive. Too inconsistent, and still developing as an NFL QB. Do we take a chance on him getting better in year 3? I'd rather let him stick as a backup, and try to find someone else in the draft or FA to compete with him.
Seaver- Pilot
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- Post n°633
Re: Idzik's state of the team
Blindsidebrick wrote:Sarge wrote:I am going on record to say we won't have either a new GM or new QB next year. Have I been wrong before? Of course, but that's my prediction
Prediction is based in part on the hunch we won't get Winston or Mariota and that Darrell Bevell or Pep Hamilton is the next coach. If it's Kubiak or a defensive coach, I can see them looking for a journeyman interim style QB
I agree about the GM part. I think the Idzik speculation and "sources" is unsubstantiated. Woody may clean house, but at this point, I think it'll be limited to the coaching staff. The fact that Cimini and Mehta are calling for Idzik's head just reinforces that, for me.
Not so sure about Geno. He's been a tale of two QB's: horrifically bad, and glimpses of very impressive. Too inconsistent, and still developing as an NFL QB. Do we take a chance on him getting better in year 3? I'd rather let him stick as a backup, and try to find someone else in the draft or FA to compete with him.
I have hard time accepting that statement. My reasoning being that Rex has proven to Woody he can win. Woody won't stand back, and make the assessment that this is all on Rex. He likes Rex, but understands shelf life and results. Rex is gone regardless, but he is not going to conclude all their problems end with Rex leaving..........the bread crumb trail of mistakes clearly leads to Idzik's office as well. Pile on top of that the repeated hints of Idzik not having a lot of support in the building and it paints a better picture to Woody that he buys time from fans to clean house.
IF you bring Idzik back, you start a ticking timebomb. He won't have any room for error with fans/media from outset. Scrutiny is magnified by 1000. I don't see how any GM could operate under those conditions. A complete reboot buys time.
LIJETFAN- Honorary Air Commander
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- Post n°634
Re: Idzik's state of the team
I don't see how under any circumstances Idzik returns. He doesn't deserve to return. And well said Seaver. The failings for this franchise do not stop and end with Rex. There are a lot of people to blame and none of them deserve to keep their jobs.
Old#15- Honorary Air Commander
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- Post n°635
Re: Idzik's state of the team
LIJETFAN wrote:I don't see how under any circumstances Idzik returns. He doesn't deserve to return. And well said Seaver. The failings for this franchise do not stop and end with Rex. There are a lot of people to blame and none of them deserve to keep their jobs.
I think there is a huge difference between "doesn't deserve to return" and Idzik being a scapegoat for Woody's mismanagement of the entire situation starting two years ago as it relates to Idzik.
NickSINYC- Honorary Sky Marshall
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- Post n°636
Re: Idzik's state of the team
LIJETFAN wrote:I don't see how under any circumstances Idzik returns. He doesn't deserve to return. And well said Seaver. The failings for this franchise do not stop and end with Rex. There are a lot of people to blame and none of them deserve to keep their jobs.
Idzik may very well be shown the door after given only 2 seasons unfairly. If so, so be it. He has not been perfect but anyone who says he has no redeeming qualities and has done nothing right is simply not looking at what he has actually done.
hobson54- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°637
Re: Idzik's state of the team
what makes bringing Idzik back so difficult is that he would be an endangered GM looking to hire a new head coach. unless he can convince one of his Seattle buddies to come aboard, it's gonna be hard to attract a quality HC with the GM on the possible chopping block in a year.
I've been of the opinion that 2 years is too short to properly judge a GM. but I also have a problem making the case Idzik deserves to keep his job. my expectation is that he will be gone, and I can't really argue with that call if Woody cans him.
I've been of the opinion that 2 years is too short to properly judge a GM. but I also have a problem making the case Idzik deserves to keep his job. my expectation is that he will be gone, and I can't really argue with that call if Woody cans him.
SackExchange- Moderator
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- Post n°638
Re: Idzik's state of the team
This is pretty much where I am. The biggest problem was that Idzik had to inherit a HC, rather than being able to pick his own guy.hobson54 wrote:what makes bringing Idzik back so difficult is that he would be an endangered GM looking to hire a new head coach. unless he can convince one of his Seattle buddies to come aboard, it's gonna be hard to attract a quality HC with the GM on the possible chopping block in a year.
I've been of the opinion that 2 years is too short to properly judge a GM. but I also have a problem making the case Idzik deserves to keep his job. my expectation is that he will be gone, and I can't really argue with that call if Woody cans him.
But the fact that the team needs to fire Rex, yet keeping Idzik and firing Rex means keeping around the guy who has never won, and getting rid of the guy who has.
Idzik almost has to go. But think of what some of these same "Fire Idzik" fans will say if guys like Milliner, Pryor, Evans, McDougle, etc., all develop into good players. "Typical Same Ol' Jets. They had a great GM, and fired him too quickly." The very same kneejerk fans flying banners and buying billboards will KILL the Jets if Idzik's guys develop, or if he goes elsewhere and becomes a winning GM.
soj- Honorary Air Commander
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- Post n°639
Re: Idzik's state of the team
Sack I hear you but as absurd as the fan reaction has been if he has alienated people in the building how do you keep him? If he has no respect and people do not trust him or his judgement... its over.
AS for players getting better well we'll see... At this point does it really matter? The team with him at the helm is 3-11 they need to clean house.
AS for players getting better well we'll see... At this point does it really matter? The team with him at the helm is 3-11 they need to clean house.
SackExchange- Moderator
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- Post n°640
Re: Idzik's state of the team
Oh, he absolutely has to go, I think. That ship has sailed.soj wrote:Sack I hear you but as absurd as the fan reaction has been if he has alienated people in the building how do you keep him? If he has no respect and people do not trust him or his judgement... its over.
AS for players getting better well we'll see... At this point does it really matter? The team with him at the helm is 3-11 they need to clean house.
But what if...what if...he actually did start to build a successful long-term foundation here, and we cut bait with him too early?
I just know that those same reactionary fans who called the organization a joke and demanded him be fired will call the organization a joke and blast Woody for firing him.
Old#15- Honorary Air Commander
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- Post n°641
Re: Idzik's state of the team
soj wrote:Sack I hear you but as absurd as the fan reaction has been if he has alienated people in the building how do you keep him? If he has no respect and people do not trust him or his judgement... its over.
AS for players getting better well we'll see... At this point does it really matter? The team with him at the helm is 3-11 they need to clean house.
I wonder where the alienating comments are coming from. If it's Bradway and his band of underperforming cronies, then how is that a bad thing? I say that with tongue in cheek, because in every organization people get alienated for one reason or the other. Ruthless prick leaders who may be very successful alienate people all of the time, so I take those reports with a grain of salt.
And BTW, an overwhelming % of the 3-11 record is because Rex is at the helm. I contend that the roster is better now than it was 2 years ago, certainly on the offensive side of the ball. Not only is it arguably a stronger roster, but the CAP situation is measurably better also. CB is the only weaker spot than 2 years ago, but there are caveats for Idzik's performance in that position's decline. We have read that the Revis trade was Idzik's doing, but it was Woody's mandate. He did turn it into a valuable piece though in Richardson. If you want to blame Idzik for not re-signing an injured and poorly performing Cro for big $$, that's fair but also with 20/20 hindsight. I think he did the practical thing there, but it came back to haunt him because of 2 major injuries and Patterson.
I also understand that patience and logic don't always play into these decisions. I believe Woody will succumb to the media and lunatic fringe fan base that are pushing for Idzik's dismissal. It's a pretty sad state of affairs in my opinion because Idzik has improved the team, and has put them in better position to be able to re-sign core players and go after free agents. I hear the complaints about JI not using all of the cap space, but maybe that was the plan all along. In the short term that is viewed as a major mistake by many, but if he spent money on CBs e.g., would that have made Geno a better QB, or Rex a better HC?
football51- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°642
Re: Idzik's state of the team
Cimini with a much more accurate picture of the Revis situation including not blaming our "pinata" gm .
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/47423/darrelle-revis-took-the-money-leaving-rex-ryan-on-an-island?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/47423/darrelle-revis-took-the-money-leaving-rex-ryan-on-an-island?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
SackExchange- Moderator
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- Post n°643
Re: Idzik's state of the team
I'd call Belichick more of a mad scientist than Rex. Rex is a great defensive strategist, but it seems like Belichick is the obsessed one, never leaving the facility from July to January.
football51- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°644
Re: Idzik's state of the team
SackExchange wrote:I'd call Belichick more of a mad scientist than Rex. Rex is a great defensive strategist, but it seems like Belichick is the obsessed one, never leaving the facility from July to January.
It's funny you should say that. In that book, Collision Low Crossers, Pettine said that used to be Rex until he turned "HollyWood". Getting a spot on CSI NY, and feeding off the Hard Knocks season, Pettine said Rex lost sight of what got him hired as a HC in the first place.
cysporsche- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°645
Re: Idzik's state of the team
R E L A X Jet brothers, John Idzik will be our GM next season, trust me.
Go Jets...Cyborg
Go Jets...Cyborg
LIJETFAN- Honorary Air Commander
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- Post n°646
Re: Idzik's state of the team
Old#15 wrote:soj wrote:Sack I hear you but as absurd as the fan reaction has been if he has alienated people in the building how do you keep him? If he has no respect and people do not trust him or his judgement... its over.
AS for players getting better well we'll see... At this point does it really matter? The team with him at the helm is 3-11 they need to clean house.
I wonder where the alienating comments are coming from. If it's Bradway and his band of underperforming cronies, then how is that a bad thing? I say that with tongue in cheek, because in every organization people get alienated for one reason or the other. Ruthless prick leaders who may be very successful alienate people all of the time, so I take those reports with a grain of salt.
And BTW, an overwhelming % of the 3-11 record is because Rex is at the helm. I contend that the roster is better now than it was 2 years ago, certainly on the offensive side of the ball. Not only is it arguably a stronger roster, but the CAP situation is measurably better also. CB is the only weaker spot than 2 years ago, but there are caveats for Idzik's performance in that position's decline. We have read that the Revis trade was Idzik's doing, but it was Woody's mandate. He did turn it into a valuable piece though in Richardson. If you want to blame Idzik for not re-signing an injured and poorly performing Cro for big $$, that's fair but also with 20/20 hindsight. I think he did the practical thing there, but it came back to haunt him because of 2 major injuries and Patterson.
I also understand that patience and logic don't always play into these decisions. I believe Woody will succumb to the media and lunatic fringe fan base that are pushing for Idzik's dismissal. It's a pretty sad state of affairs in my opinion because Idzik has improved the team, and has put them in better position to be able to re-sign core players and go after free agents. I hear the complaints about JI not using all of the cap space, but maybe that was the plan all along. In the short term that is viewed as a major mistake by many, but if he spent money on CBs e.g., would that have made Geno a better QB, or Rex a better HC?
I just don't see how anyone can say this team is improved when you look at their record. The failures are not limited to Rex or Idzik, but failure has occurred throughout the organization. And I said, neither Rex, nor Idzik, nor Graves, nor Bradway deserve to keep their jobs after this season. I don't agree with the tactics used by the fans with banners and billboards, but they pay a significant amount of money for PSLs. They have a right to express themselves. How they choose to do it is up to them. I personally think their approach is over the top, but maybe that is what it will take for them to be heard. I do not consider myself part of the "lunatic fringe." I consider myself a long time Jet fan that believes that the organization is headed in the wrong direction and it is time to find a GM with credibility and a proven track record, and the same goes for the next coach. This team needs a new GM, new coach, new QB. I believe the fans will be patient if they see that the arrow is pointed up. Right now, no one can say that when you look at the record and if you watched this team play this year. It has been embarrassing to watch. And Idzik owns that product. The buck stops with him, his words. And if that is the case, then he needs to be held accountable.
Old#15- Honorary Air Commander
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- Post n°647
Re: Idzik's state of the team
LIJet - I think that you can have a better squad, yet also have a poorer record. We see it all the time when new coaches come in and win with a previous coach's team. I look at all of the disconnects on this team from the: different coaching philosophies between the HC and OC, player development between GM and HC, etc. Then you read some of the stories about Rex gone 'hollywood' and not putting in the work anymore, erosion of talent on coaching staff, ex and current players complaining about poor coaching (Thomas) and accountability (DDavis), Rex's reluctance to replace aging and ineffective players with younger players. The picture I see is a very poorly coached team, not a talent poor team. Sure we have some blind spots in talent, notably CB and QB, but I see lots of NFL teams with similar deficiencies with much better records. I respect your opinion, but I don't agree.
Seaver- Pilot
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- Post n°648
Re: Idzik's state of the team
SackExchange wrote:Oh, he absolutely has to go, I think. That ship has sailed.soj wrote:Sack I hear you but as absurd as the fan reaction has been if he has alienated people in the building how do you keep him? If he has no respect and people do not trust him or his judgement... its over.
AS for players getting better well we'll see... At this point does it really matter? The team with him at the helm is 3-11 they need to clean house.
But what if...what if...he actually did start to build a successful long-term foundation here, and we cut bait with him too early?
I just know that those same reactionary fans who called the organization a joke and demanded him be fired will call the organization a joke and blast Woody for firing him.
Idzik picked Geno......I'll sleep fine at night if Idzik gets canned.
Superman55- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°649
Re: Idzik's state of the team
Seaver wrote:SackExchange wrote:Oh, he absolutely has to go, I think. That ship has sailed.soj wrote:Sack I hear you but as absurd as the fan reaction has been if he has alienated people in the building how do you keep him? If he has no respect and people do not trust him or his judgement... its over.
AS for players getting better well we'll see... At this point does it really matter? The team with him at the helm is 3-11 they need to clean house.
But what if...what if...he actually did start to build a successful long-term foundation here, and we cut bait with him too early?
I just know that those same reactionary fans who called the organization a joke and demanded him be fired will call the organization a joke and blast Woody for firing him.
Idzik picked Geno......I'll sleep fine at night if Idzik gets canned.
Dont hold the players he selected against him...few others on this board do...
Seaver- Pilot
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- Post n°650
Re: Idzik's state of the team
it's the most important position on the field and he blew it for 2 years like a whore on dollar day.
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