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    Idzik's state of the team

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    Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 13:37

    Obviously not an easy day to give such a speech.

    That said, is there anything Jets related that Mehta won't bash?

    "Manish Mehta @MMehtaNYDN 55s55 seconds ago
    John Idzik being overly dramatic. We're talking about a 1-7 team.... not a real life tragedy."

    Mehta is just the worst kind of person. Not even just as a beat writer. He's an awful human being.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by The Wicker Man on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 13:38

    Watching now.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 13:44

    I'm seeing more and more Jets fans bashing Idzik online, buying into the media hype.

    Honestly, this team will never become elite, because no front office will ever be given the patience of the fans to actually build a foundation. Plans get half-done because the fans turn on the front office. Every team has armchair GMs, HCs, OCs, and QBs, but the Jets are the worst with it.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 13:46

    SackExchange wrote:I'm seeing more and more Jets fans bashing Idzik online, buying into the media hype.

    Honestly, this team will never become elite, because no front office will ever be given the patience of the fans to actually build a foundation. Plans get half-done because the fans turn on the front office. Every team has armchair GMs, HCs, OCs, and QBs, but the Jets are the worst with it.

    Lets just hope Woody doesn'y become trigger happy and axe John after the season.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 13:48

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:I'm seeing more and more Jets fans bashing Idzik online, buying into the media hype.

    Honestly, this team will never become elite, because no front office will ever be given the patience of the fans to actually build a foundation. Plans get half-done because the fans turn on the front office. Every team has armchair GMs, HCs, OCs, and QBs, but the Jets are the worst with it.

    Lets just hope Woody doesn'y become trigger happy and axe John after the season.
    If he listened to a lot of the fans, he would fire him.

    Then the next guy would have one preseason game to turn the team into Super Bowl champs. If they don't win the SB in August 2015, that guy needs to be fired. After all, he didn't draft or sign the player I would have taken.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 13:53

    If you read the media tweets, they are going crazy that Idzik actually spoke on his own for 15-20 minutes.

    Since they were not able to be the centers of attention in asking the questions, they're whining. It's yet another reason for them to bash both Idzik and the Jets.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Metjetgal on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 13:59

    I'm not listening , but the media is ripping Idzik to shreds.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by The Wicker Man on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 14:13

    Well, that was a whole lot of nothing. Basically, we need to be patient with his plan.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Seaver on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 14:42

    let's just say Idzik is clueless.......what's the point in seeing this madness going on for another 2 years?

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by soj on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 14:54

    Yep we have a plan, the plan works - not yet here (give it time)but I know it works - We have good coaches, good players, etc. etc.... say what... memo to GM record is 1-7?

    I do give him credit for stating he has not done a good job...but what do you plan to do to hold people accountable? Which was never asked BTW or at least I didn't hear it. Also,

    The change the culture of mediocre which now seem to be the norm.



    Not sure where we go from here but at least I can watch the AZ cards with a second year coach who is 6-1 this year...

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Metjetgal on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 14:55

    Seaver wrote:let's just say Idzik is clueless.......what's the point in seeing this madness going on for another 2 years?  

    He really seems clueless, it's disheartening.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Seaver on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 15:06

    I'm not bashing him here.....just asking if waiting two more years with same results is all that smart. It's one thing to say get rid of him if he missed on a pick or two....but he seems to be failing in multiple areas....that's the concern. He not only drafted a QB, he signed Vick.....he went with another turnover machine. He left the secondary woefully undermanned. His plan at Guard was Winters and Colon. One coming off a poor first season - the other cominbg off biceps surgery and a penalty machine. This was the plan to support his QB picks. He did nothing to maneuver in the draft yet picks he made are not sticking. Now he brings in an expensive rental who is neither RB nor WR........to pair up with a dysfunctional QB tandem and OC that has no clue how to sequence plays.

    ...and to keep Idzik is a good idea? What expertise within Idzik will he fall back onto dig out? He's a bean counter (no offense to those counting beans).

    If you believe the story.....he essentially won the job because he had the best plan to get rid of Revis. Not sure that makes him a good talent evaluator.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by NickSINYC on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 15:29

    SackExchange wrote:I'm seeing more and more Jets fans bashing Idzik online, buying into the media hype.

    Honestly, this team will never become elite, because no front office will ever be given the patience of the fans to actually build a foundation. Plans get half-done because the fans turn on the front office. Every team has armchair GMs, HCs, OCs, and QBs, but the Jets are the worst with it.
    This is just my opinion. I believe the extremely hard Idzik bashing so early is driven by a good many fans who are still in love with Rex and want to put all the blame anyplace else but his shoulders.



    I added this to clarify. Idzik has not been perfect he has made mistake and I have pointed them out elsewhere. Also I am no saying every fan is only doing it because they love Rex. I just think the attack is so intense because of it.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by soj on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 15:48

    Seaver wrote:I'm not bashing him here.....just asking if waiting two more years with same results is all that smart.  It's one thing to say get rid of him if he missed on a pick or two....but he seems to be failing in multiple areas....that's the concern.  He not only drafted a QB, he signed Vick.....he went with another turnover machine.   He left the secondary woefully undermanned.  His plan at Guard was Winters and Colon.  One coming off a poor first season - the other cominbg off biceps surgery and a penalty machine.  This was the plan to support his QB picks.  He did nothing to maneuver in the draft yet picks he made are not sticking.  Now he brings in an expensive rental who is neither RB nor WR........to pair up with a dysfunctional QB tandem and OC that has no clue how to sequence plays.  

    ...and to keep Idzik is a good idea?  What expertise within Idzik will he fall back onto dig out?  He's a bean counter (no offense to those counting beans).  


    If you believe the story.....he essentially won the job because he had the best plan to get rid of Revis.  Not sure that makes him a good talent evaluator.

    I am with you because I listen and thought to myself he doesn't have the answers affraid I am tired of this dysfunction... I thought when Woody took over for Hess we would stop being the laughing stock of the NFL and here we are again... maybe not the laughing stock but certainly dysfunctional.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 16:00

    Seaver wrote:let's just say Idzik is clueless.......what's the point in seeing this madness going on for another 2 years?  
    Do we know he's clueless? Or has he just not had enough time?

    I mean, if we're going to expect a GM, of all people, to get immediate dividends, we will never build a team. The only way a GM can get immediate dividends is through free agency and trades for veterans.

    A head coach, it's fair to expect some uptick in play pretty immediately, whether it is in coaching up players or game management. But a GM is different. It's a much longer term situation.

    So if every GM who comes to the Jets is going to be expected to win out of the gate, the team will never actually develop homegrown players. Fans want immediate results, but also love homegrown guys. In other words, fans want to have their cake and eat it, too.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 16:06

    NickSINYC wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:I'm seeing more and more Jets fans bashing Idzik online, buying into the media hype.

    Honestly, this team will never become elite, because no front office will ever be given the patience of the fans to actually build a foundation. Plans get half-done because the fans turn on the front office. Every team has armchair GMs, HCs, OCs, and QBs, but the Jets are the worst with it.
    This is just my opinion. I believe the extremely hard Idzik bashing so early is driven by a good many fans who are still in love with Rex and want to put all the blame anyplace else but his shoulders.



    I added this to clarify. Idzik has not been perfect he has made mistake and I have pointed them out elsewhere. Also I am no saying every fan is only doing it because they love Rex. I just think the attack is so intense because of it.

    I think you are by and large right. The one guy who has eluded the ire of Jets fans has been Rex. I don't know whether it's because he's aggressive, boisterous, or just a well-liked guy, most other Jets coaches would have already been given the last name "Must Go."

    Perhaps it's the fan base that drives the narrative. Idzik played football in college, has been a talent evaluator, and yet gets branded with the moniker of bean counter while fans call for him to be fired after 1 1/2 years. Rex is into his sixth, and isn't getting bashed nearly as much as Idzik.

    Maybe Jets fans just don't like people who take a methodical approach. Maybe a large contingent of the fan base feeds on people who are all about emotion, and react negatively to people who are cerebral. Perhaps that is what drives so many fans, including many fans on the board that used to be ours, to give Rex a pass while mercilessly bashing Idzik.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by LIJETFAN on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 16:06

    I listened to 75% of the press conference.  I heard Idzik answer a few questions from the media.  On the plus side, he was candid in his appraisal of his own performance.  And he seemed generally troubled by the where this team is.  On the negative side, he did nothing to convince the fans that his plan is going to work.  His track record elsewhere is not really his track record at all.  He was not the GM.  So while those plans may have worked in Tampa Bay and Seattle with other men at the helm, it might now work here if it is not executed properly.  The plan itself might be fine, but he execution might be poor.  Does that sound familiar?  A good game plan paired with bad execution on the field usually equals a loss.  A good plan with bad execution in the front office translates to 1-7 so far.  

    I've tried to be fair with assessing Idzik, he has made some good decisions and some bad decisions.  But when you pool all of those decisions together - the drafts, FA, QB, CB, WR, OL and so on, and couple that with a team not built in a way that works for the coach or built to compete with the schedule they had this year, you get 1-7.   I've also said, Rex's time here is done.  My concern with Idzik is this:

    Let's say Woody exercises patience and there is little to no improvement over the next year or two, then, Woody needs to fire Idzik, and we are starting over again.  Meanwhile, for the next two seasons, this team will go 6-10, 5-11, 7-9 or something akin to that let's say.  Now, you have a coach that was hired by the previous regime and a new GM coming in, who again wants his own coach.  Then you are turning the entire franchise upside again.   If I had confidence that Idzik was going to get this right, I would say keep him and let it play out.  Let him hire his own coach.  Let that coach help pick the talent and build the team he wants.  Should Idzik get that chance?  After giving it a lot of thought, I am not confident he is the guy that can turn this franchise around.  Or more specifically, I am not confident that he can execute on his plan.  The plan may be fine.  I am just unsure whether he is the right guy to execute on it.  

    So, should Woody cut his losses now, start over and give the fans something to look forward to seeing build?  If we polled most Jet fans, I would bet that Idzik's disapproval rating is extremely high.   My opinion is this - we are getting a new coach, we are getting a new QB.  So there are two options - The first option is to wipe the slate clean and start over with a new GM too.  Just start over.   The second option is to completely rebuild the folks in charge of personnel - replace them and keep the GM in place and let him hire the new coach.
     
    I believe strongly in patience, and I believe strongly in maintaining continuity.  But, the team is clearly headed in the wrong direction.  Idzik can't stay the course, because right now that course is 1-7 and is an embarrassing product.  The record proves that out.  

    So, my opinion is that the Jets should start over.  The new GM will clean house in the personnel group anyway.  It will be hard to attract good coaches if the GM's job is unstable, which it should be at this point.  So, start over.  It will send a message to the fans and the league that the Jets are committed to building a championship team, whatever it takes.  And that is what Jet fans want and frankly deserve at this point.  I am not excited about the present or the future of this team as it is currently constructed.  What would get me excited is to see accountability.  That would be a great start to turning the Jets around.  The owner needs to hold the front office accountable for failure.  I think 1-7 qualifies as failure.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 16:15

    I don't mind it if the team starts over. My problem is, if Idzik is replaced after this year, his successor will be given a year, at most two, to completely turn it around. This fan base, as well as the vultures in the media, refuse to allow this team to build a foundation at all. It's all about fresh coats of paint and new drapes.

    So someone new will come in, forced to win now, and will do so by signing aging veteran free agents and trading away youth. That will give the team yet another wild card, perhaps if Brady and Belichick leave, sneaking into a division title. And then an exit in early or mid January.

    Truth be told, I'm sick of that. We've seen wild cards. We've seen division titles. We've even seen AFC title games. I'd rather suck for a few years in order to build a true championship caliber team than go into win-now mode, get 9 or 10 wins, and take a wild card game before being eliminated.

    Sorry, but the short term of getting into the playoffs isn't enough for me any more. I've been down that road. If we have the choice between being competitive now but never being truly elite, or sucking now with the possibility of being elite down the road, I'll take the latter. But it will never happen here because so many Jets fans are all about the instant gratification or being relevant, rather than the long-term gratification of being great.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by LIJETFAN on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 16:33

    Sack no argument here with anything you said. I too think the Jets need to build the foundation for long terms sustainable success. Idzik's mantra is the right one. The question is, is he the right guy to do that? He can say all the right things, but if he can't execute who cares. It's the difference between theory and practice. The simulated world and the real one.

    Here is my opinion, if Woody starts over, and he hires a GM with a good amount of credibility and a coach with good credibility, then fans will be patient. There are no Bill Parcells types available. But someone with some stature and track record of success would be the right place to start. I am not even convinced that hiring a so-called up and coming Asst is the way to go. I think the Jets need someone with experience, and a track record of success in the front office and on the sidelines. Not easy to find, but that is who they should be looking for in my opinion.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 16:42

    LIJETFAN wrote:Sack no argument here with anything you said.  I too think the Jets need to build the foundation for long terms sustainable success.  Idzik's mantra is the right one.  The question is, is he the right guy to do that?  He can say all the right things, but if he can't execute who cares.  It's the difference between theory and practice.  The simulated world and the real one.  

    Here is my opinion, if Woody starts over, and he hires a GM with a good amount of credibility and a coach with good credibility, then fans will be patient.  There are no Bill Parcells types available.  But someone with some stature and track record of success would be the right place to start.  I am not even convinced that hiring a so-called up and coming Asst is the way to go.  I think the Jets need someone with experience, and a track record of success in the front office and on the sidelines.   Not easy to find, but that is who they should be looking for in my opinion.  

    Oh, I couldn't agree with you more. There are absolutely no certainties that Idzik is the right guy to do it. But he hasn't had a chance to implement his plan, either, which I why I think you stay the course. Let it continue to develop, give him a coach of his choosing, and then evaluate after 3 or 4 seasons, not after 1 1/2.

    I don't get the arguments that he's either a bean counter or an idiot. The guy played in college, he coached, he came from a football family, he evaluated talent...oh, and he went to an Ivy League school and to Duke. He's both smart and a football guy.

    And before everyone gives all the credit to others, since he was never GM before here, he was Senior Director of Football Operations with the Cards, helping to build their Super Bowl team, and VP of Football Administration in Seattle, helping to build their SB winning team.

    He may not be the right guy. He may be making mistakes. But he's neither an idiot nor a football-illiterate bean counter.

    Still, large segments of this fan base will gravitate more toward the likable guy they want to have a drink with in Rex than the cerebral guy who might be able to build a winning team in Idzik.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by skop on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 16:52

    1.) I like our Dline
    2.) I like our Oline...need depth
    3.) I like our starting WRs...need depth
    4.) I like our trio of RBs
    5.) I like our duo at TE
    6.) I like our LBs...need more speed
    7.) I like our kicker
    8.) I wonder if I would like our DB's if they were all healthy

    We have a glaring hole at QB. However, this team isn't void of talent, nor is it void of $$$ to keep it. I have patience to see if he turns this thing around, bc I don't see a lot that needs to be done.

    Seriously, we're a competent QB and a healthy secondary away from having a really good team...as crazy as that sounds at 1-7.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 17:06

    I still think an addition at CB is needed, and some upgrading on the OL would help. But we have a very good front seven on defense, an excellent ground game, good WRs...

    There aren't many holes. QB is a huge one, as is having a starting CB to go along with Milliner. His injury did more to hurt this team than could be imagined, though a lot of that falls on Idzik for not doing more to pair him with another legit starter. You can live through having one starting caliber CB - lot of teams have injuries. You can't live through having no starting caliber CBs.

    QB, first and foremost. Then, another legit starter at CB. After that, luxury upgrades at WR, OL, and LB.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by skop on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 17:12

    SackExchange wrote:I still think an addition at CB is needed, and some upgrading on the OL would help. But we have a very good front seven on defense, an excellent ground game, good WRs...

    There aren't many holes. QB is a huge one, as is having a starting CB to go along with Milliner. His injury did more to hurt this team than could be imagined, though a lot of that falls on Idzik for not doing more to pair him with another legit starter. You can live through having one starting caliber CB - lot of teams have injuries. You can't live through having no starting caliber CBs.

    QB, first and foremost. Then, another legit starter at CB. After that, luxury upgrades at WR, OL, and LB.

    Agreed, and I too was disappointed with the lack of the caliber CB Cro was as a replacement. I almost see his rationale, though. D'mitri Peterson, and McDougall (sp on both probably off) in the mix with #27 may have been what he was thinking as a decent CB rotation. that allows for Allen to cover TE's, and doesn't force us to play Pryor as extensively.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 17:35

    I could see that, though I do see McDougle as more likely a nickel back. Patterson was a high injury risk (though low contract risk) with a pretty low reward. I was pleased something was done, but wanted more done at CB.

    Didn't mind Cro walking. Wanted more done to upgrade, though. Still think even with a healthy Milliner, another starting CB is needed.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by LIJETFAN on Mon 27 Oct 2014 - 17:43

    Sack, ok that's fair. If you go with your stay the course approach, which is an legitimate option, that leaves two questions:

    1. Who is held accountable for this mess other than Rex? Because it is not all on Rex; and,
    2. What do you do in the personnel department?

    I say that because I believe most of us believe that the problems with this team start with personnel and talent at key positions. If you lack talent you have to play mistake free football to win. The Jets lack talent and make mistakes constantly, which is a mess. So, you fix the mistakes and execution on the field by hiring a new coach. Ok fine.

    How do you propose the Jets fix the talent evaluation side of the house?

    My opinion is, whoever is responsible for scouting and drafting of players should be fired. I think that's Bradway. So he should go. We have a new head of scouting I think, and he needs to look in the mirror too. I would look at the entire organization and turn it on its head. If the draft is the life-line that Idzik says it is, then you can't miss on picks. The Jets had 12 picks last year and none of them have made a significant impact in a game after 8 weeks. That's not good.

    The Jets need to become a team that out-drafts every other NFL team. They need to find starters in the 6th round. Heck even Jerry Jones has done a far better job than this job of so-called experts. So what would you do? Who would you hold accountable?


    If the Jets are going to continue to rebuild, then they should do it right. First thing, find and draft the franchise QB. If you can't do that next year, then rebuild the O-line and the CBs and start from there. Here would be my draft priorities for this team:

    1. Franchise QB
    1a. #1 WR
    1b. Two Guards OL- OG
    1c. Two CBs

    That is 6 roster spots, 2 or three of which should probably be first round picks. And that is before you look at the depth at any other positions. So this team has a lot of work to do, and they need a personnel department that can nail the draft. They need find starters in the 4th or 5th round, diamonds in the rough. The Jets haven't done that since Mangini was here, and before that Parcells.







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