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    Idzik's state of the team

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    Blindsidebrick
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Blindsidebrick on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 12:23

    A few people mentioned fans and media in the decision Woody has to make regarding Idzik. I'll say this, if our owner is listening to these blowhards flying banners over practice and renting billboards, then Woody needs to just walk away from this team. You don't make decisions like this based on the demands of an angry segment of the fan base, or the commentary of boneheads like Mehta and Cimini.

    If Woody gets rid of everyone, including Idzik, so be it. But that'll be completely starting over. Whole new everything. And in typical fashion, Jets fans will expect the world from whichever unfortunate soul steps into the position of GM for the NYJ.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Old#15 on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 12:25

    Seaver wrote:it's the most important position on the field and he blew it for 2 years like a whore on dollar day.

    I agree that it is the most important position on the field, but the analogy is a bit extreme lol!

    In all seriousness, what would you have suggested Idzik have done with the QB position in the last two years knowing now in hindsight how the draft pools were and our cap situation?

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Old#15 on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 12:28

    Blindsidebrick wrote:A few people mentioned fans and media in the decision Woody has to make regarding Idzik. I'll say this, if our owner is listening to these blowhards flying banners over practice and renting billboards, then Woody needs to just walk away from this team. You don't make decisions like this based on the demands of an angry segment of the fan base, or the commentary of boneheads like Mehta and Cimini.

    If Woody gets rid of everyone, including Idzik, so be it. But that'll be completely starting over. Whole new everything. And in typical fashion, Jets fans will expect the world from whichever unfortunate soul steps into the position of GM for the NYJ.

    +1 - I'm one of those people who suggested that, and was insinuating that Woody is at the heart of the dysfunctionality of this team.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by LIJETFAN on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 13:21

    I actually disagree that Woody shouldn't listen to the fans sentiment. I believe he has to listen to them. How the fans perceive the team matters. They are the customers. Obviously that is only one data point. But it has to be factored into his decision-making. He is running a business, and no one wants a business with angry customers. Or worse, a business that is losing customers. That's just common sense.

    As I said, that is not the only factor that should go into Woody's decision-making about what to do next, but the fans opinions do carry some weight. Look, Woody can see the results for himself. He's at every game. He knows what is going on with the team. And I actually think he is pretty good owner from the perspective of the giving the team every resource to be successful. I think he wants to win. He just needs the right people in the front office making decisions. Right now, he doesn't have that in my opinion.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by LIJETFAN on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 13:24

    And I am not going to bash Idzik for drafting Geno. At the time, it was a good move. Now last year's draft there were other opportunities to draft a QB. The issue was the evaluation of Geno and where he was as a player. If the Jets were unsure they should have drafted another QB like Carr or Mettenberger, they could have had both of them. That was a misstep.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Seaver on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 13:24

    Blindsidebrick wrote:A few people mentioned fans and media in the decision Woody has to make regarding Idzik. I'll say this, if our owner is listening to these blowhards flying banners over practice and renting billboards, then Woody needs to just walk away from this team. You don't make decisions like this based on the demands of an angry segment of the fan base, or the commentary of boneheads like Mehta and Cimini.

    If Woody gets rid of everyone, including Idzik, so be it. But that'll be completely starting over. Whole new everything. And in typical fashion, Jets fans will expect the world from whichever unfortunate soul steps into the position of GM for the NYJ.

    that's fine if your owner doesn't mind empty seats
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by football51 on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 13:41

    Superman55 wrote:
    Seaver wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    soj wrote:Sack I hear you but as absurd as the fan reaction has been if he has alienated people in the building how do you keep him? If he has no respect  and people do not trust him or his judgement... its over.

    AS for players getting better well we'll see... At this point does it really matter? The team with him at the helm is 3-11 they need to clean house.
    Oh, he absolutely has to go, I think. That ship has sailed.

    But what if...what if...he actually did start to build a successful long-term foundation here, and we cut bait with him too early?

    I just know that those same reactionary fans who called the organization a joke and demanded him be fired will call the organization a joke and blast Woody for firing him.

    Idzik picked Geno......I'll sleep fine at night if Idzik gets canned.

    Dont hold the players he selected against him...few others on this board do...





    Right........ because all picks pan out for gm's not named Idzik Rolling Eyes . Maybe, as other reporters(the ones who don't want to boil Idzik's rabbit) are starting to point out, our coaching staff has misused(Pryor) picks, played favorites and not given quality reps(Amaro) to picks, ignored training camp/preseason production(IK) with picks, and played unproductive vets(Colon) instead of giving a pick(Dozier) an opportunity. Not to mention the horrible production of the 2013 draft's first round yet Idzik got the best player in the entire draft (Richardson). Also, so many of Idzik's "busts" Rolling Eyes have yet to take the field because of injury. By the way, Jalen Saunders is averaging just under 14 yards on punt returns for the Saints. Bet that helps with field position. As a team(with multiple returners), we average LESS than 6 yards per return.



    So, yes, I will put the majority of the blame on the HC( the HC who was forced on Idzik) who's been living off 2010 for the past four seasons and can't seem to function with ANY OC that HE chooses, and the personnel/scouting department that Idzik is unable to FULLY replace. It's hard for any plan to be executed when your not allowed to put the pieces in play to make it work. And, yes, the coaching staff is a BIG part of that. I think Josh Thomas shined a light on what we've been watching since 2009. Miscommunication on defense including too many men on the field and constant blown assignments. It's odd that the only position group showing development of young talent under Ryan has been the defensive line. IMO, that's because it's led by our best coach Karl Dunbar.





    If I was the owner, I'd come out and take responsibility for forcing a HC and front office on Idzik, and allow him to bring in his own people and make it clear publicly that he's not on the hot seat. Now, I don't expect that to happen. I expect EVERYONE to get fired. That's fine, but like Sack mentioned, it's inevitable that some fans will blast the team if more of Idzik's picks turn into players just like the new gm's honeymoon will probably last through the third preseason game of 2015.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Seaver on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 13:50

    Old#15 wrote:
    Seaver wrote:it's the most important position on the field and he blew it for 2 years like a whore on dollar day.

    I agree that it is the most important position on the field, but the analogy is a bit extreme lol!

    In all seriousness, what would you have suggested Idzik have done with the QB position in the last two years knowing now in hindsight how the draft pools were and our cap situation?  

    In all seriousness.......I hated the Geno pick. Was not on board from the word go. I would've went journeyman to compete with Sanchez as a band aid that season as the draft was QB poor. Taking a shot at Geno was not the worst thing......I can live with it.....but...

    it was ignoring the position in the 2014 draft. The problem I have is Idzik liking him. He put too much faith in him for 2014 and did not invest in another long term project like Aaron Murray or Mettenberger. Furthermore, bringing in a turnover machine like Vick was dumb as well. He needed a more conservative alternative to Geno. He left the Jet organization with no viable longterm alternative plan at QB........this after seeing how bad Geno was and how many NFL people soured on him.

    I've seen enough of Idzik....I don't want that man anywhere near the process of finding a longterm solution at QB.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Seaver on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 13:55

    football51 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    Seaver wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    soj wrote:Sack I hear you but as absurd as the fan reaction has been if he has alienated people in the building how do you keep him? If he has no respect  and people do not trust him or his judgement... its over.

    AS for players getting better well we'll see... At this point does it really matter? The team with him at the helm is 3-11 they need to clean house.
    Oh, he absolutely has to go, I think. That ship has sailed.

    But what if...what if...he actually did start to build a successful long-term foundation here, and we cut bait with him too early?

    I just know that those same reactionary fans who called the organization a joke and demanded him be fired will call the organization a joke and blast Woody for firing him.

    Idzik picked Geno......I'll sleep fine at night if Idzik gets canned.

    Dont hold the players he selected against him...few others on this board do...





    Right........ because all picks pan out for gm's not named Idzik Rolling Eyes . Maybe, as other reporters(the ones who don't want to boil Idzik's rabbit) are starting to point out, our coaching staff has misused(Pryor) picks, played favorites and not given quality reps(Amaro) to picks, ignored training camp/preseason production(IK) with picks, and played unproductive vets(Colon) instead of giving a pick(Dozier) an opportunity. Not to mention the horrible production of the 2013 draft's first round yet Idzik got the best player in the entire draft (Richardson). Also, so many of Idzik's "busts" Rolling Eyes  have yet to take the field because of injury. By the way, Jalen Saunders is averaging just under 14 yards on punt returns for the Saints. Bet that helps with field position. As a team(with multiple returners), we average LESS than 6 yards per return.



    So, yes, I will put the majority of the blame on the HC( the HC who was forced on Idzik) who's been living off 2010 for the past four seasons and can't seem to function with ANY OC that HE chooses, and the personnel/scouting department that Idzik is unable to FULLY replace. It's hard for any plan to be executed when your not allowed to put the pieces in play to make it work. And, yes, the coaching staff is a BIG part of that. I think Josh Thomas shined a light on what we've been watching since 2009. Miscommunication on defense including too many men on the field and constant blown assignments. It's odd that the only position group showing development of young talent under Ryan has been the defensive line. IMO, that's because it's led by our best coach Karl Dunbar.





    If I was the owner, I'd come out and take responsibility for forcing a HC and front office on Idzik, and allow him to bring in his own people and make it clear publicly that he's not on the hot seat. Now, I don't expect that to happen. I expect EVERYONE to get fired. That's fine, but like Sack mentioned, it's inevitable that some fans will blast the team if more of Idzik's picks turn into players just like the new gm's honeymoon will probably last through the third preseason game of 2015.

    last time I checked the organizational chart, the GM outranks the HC and this year we've seen where his will was imposed on Rex to play Geno at QB. I don't want to hear it wasn't the GM's fault......his name was on every transaction - good and bad. He's been good with acquiring established NFL players and not so good at identifying college talent beyond what Mel Kiper's board told him to take.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by football51 on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 14:00

    Seaver wrote:
    football51 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    Seaver wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    soj wrote:Sack I hear you but as absurd as the fan reaction has been if he has alienated people in the building how do you keep him? If he has no respect  and people do not trust him or his judgement... its over.

    AS for players getting better well we'll see... At this point does it really matter? The team with him at the helm is 3-11 they need to clean house.
    Oh, he absolutely has to go, I think. That ship has sailed.

    But what if...what if...he actually did start to build a successful long-term foundation here, and we cut bait with him too early?

    I just know that those same reactionary fans who called the organization a joke and demanded him be fired will call the organization a joke and blast Woody for firing him.

    Idzik picked Geno......I'll sleep fine at night if Idzik gets canned.

    Dont hold the players he selected against him...few others on this board do...





    Right........ because all picks pan out for gm's not named Idzik Rolling Eyes . Maybe, as other reporters(the ones who don't want to boil Idzik's rabbit) are starting to point out, our coaching staff has misused(Pryor) picks, played favorites and not given quality reps(Amaro) to picks, ignored training camp/preseason production(IK) with picks, and played unproductive vets(Colon) instead of giving a pick(Dozier) an opportunity. Not to mention the horrible production of the 2013 draft's first round yet Idzik got the best player in the entire draft (Richardson). Also, so many of Idzik's "busts" Rolling Eyes  have yet to take the field because of injury. By the way, Jalen Saunders is averaging just under 14 yards on punt returns for the Saints. Bet that helps with field position. As a team(with multiple returners), we average LESS than 6 yards per return.



    So, yes, I will put the majority of the blame on the HC( the HC who was forced on Idzik) who's been living off 2010 for the past four seasons and can't seem to function with ANY OC that HE chooses, and the personnel/scouting department that Idzik is unable to FULLY replace. It's hard for any plan to be executed when your not allowed to put the pieces in play to make it work. And, yes, the coaching staff is a BIG part of that. I think Josh Thomas shined a light on what we've been watching since 2009. Miscommunication on defense including too many men on the field and constant blown assignments. It's odd that the only position group showing development of young talent under Ryan has been the defensive line. IMO, that's because it's led by our best coach Karl Dunbar.





    If I was the owner, I'd come out and take responsibility for forcing a HC and front office on Idzik, and allow him to bring in his own people and make it clear publicly that he's not on the hot seat. Now, I don't expect that to happen. I expect EVERYONE to get fired. That's fine, but like Sack mentioned, it's inevitable that some fans will blast the team if more of Idzik's picks turn into players just like the new gm's honeymoon will probably last through the third preseason game of 2015.

    last time I checked the organizational chart, the GM outranks the HC and this year we've seen where his will was imposed on Rex to play Geno at QB.  I don't want to hear it wasn't the GM's fault......his name was on every transaction - good and bad.  He's been good with acquiring established NFL players and not so good at identifying college talent beyond what Mel Kiper's board told him to take.




    Actually, that's media speculation that Idzik forced Rex to play Geno. If true, why hasn't Idzik forced him to play Amaro? IK? Suggest to Rex to use Pryor properly? Suggest not dropping Richardson into coverage a half dozen times a game? Also, when the gm is FORCED to keep the HC as a condition to be hired in the first place, I wouldn't say that the GM outranks the HC. If that was the case, Dan Quinn would've been here after the 2012 season.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by football51 on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 14:01

    Also, Mel Kiper's Big Board had Richardson as the FOURTH ranked DT. Idzik went on his own with that one.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by football51 on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 14:04

    Dennis Waszak Jr. @DWAZ73 · 20m 20 minutes ago
    For those not into yellow towels: RT @Paulie_Bruz: Spread the word @KMart_LI @KristianRDyer @DWAZ73 #KeepJohnIdzik






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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Old#15 on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 14:09

    last time I checked the organizational chart, the GM outranks the HC and this year we've seen where his will was imposed on Rex to play Geno at QB.  I don't want to hear it wasn't the GM's fault......his name was on every transaction - good and bad.  He's been good with acquiring established NFL players and not so good at identifying college talent beyond what Mel Kiper's board told him to take.[/quote]

    We just see things differently. I think your comment about Idzik being good with acquiring established players and not so good with drafting is a reflection of the coaching staff's inability to develop players. The established players are just that, and Rex doesn't have to develop them. It was the same in his 1st 2 years here, he had a stable of established vets excluding Sanchez.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Old#15 on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 14:10

    football51 wrote:Also, Mel Kiper's Big Board had Richardson as the FOURTH ranked DT. Idzik went on his own with that one.

    No I'm sure he had nothing to do with that pick, just the bad ones Smile
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by football51 on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 14:13

    This makes too much sense. Better be safe than sorry and go with the billboard lunatics.





    http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/bob-glauber/seattle-gm-says-john-idzik-is-right-man-for-jets-1.9729547
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by football51 on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 14:55

    rotflmao


    Joe Caporoso retweeted
    Paul Bruzzese @Paulie_Bruz  ·  2h 2 hours ago
    First 200 people we see will get their very limited Commemorative Piece of Paper on 12/21/14 #KeepJohnIdzik #Jets











    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 2h 2 hours ago
    So Woody could call people like Schneider and Polian and they would advise to keep Idzik but he should listen to yellow towels? Right.




    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 2h 2 hours ago
    .@slake512 Polian advised Jets to hire Idzik


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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Old#15 on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 15:08

    football51 wrote:This makes too much sense. Better be safe than sorry and go with the billboard lunatics.





    http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/bob-glauber/seattle-gm-says-john-idzik-is-right-man-for-jets-1.9729547

    What does Schneider know about John Idzik, or being a successful GM for that matter? Oh right...

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by LIJETFAN on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 16:31

    While I respect Schneider's opinion, you have to consider the source too. They are obviously friends, that is first and foremost, so what is he going to say? Fire him?

    I get that he inherited a coach, but it is not like he inherited Rich Kotite either. Rex will go on and be a head coach somewhere and probably be very successful. The sign of a good GM to me is can he build a roster with talent. Idzik has not demonstrated that he has a clue how to do that outside of drafting Richardson. When you have 19 picks and come away with one player of note, that is a subpar track record. His results in free agency are decidedly mixed, but he made several miscalculations at CB and at QB. And it was those decisions that lead us to a 3-11 team, which means the roster is 3-11 too.

    Here's the bottom line, and I've said it many times, I simply do not trust Idzik to make good decisions on draft day, with the next coach, or choosing a QB. He has zero credibility now. He had two seasons to prove he was more than a cap guy and that he understands personnel and knows how to build a roster. And if we saw improvement in this team, I am not saying making the playoffs, but a team that was on the upswing, he would deserve to stay. But the exact opposite is true. This is team that has been on a downward spiral all year. He got his shot, he had two seasons to prove he could lead this franchise. He's in over his head. Time to start over and find the right person this time.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 16:42

    Old#15 wrote:
    football51 wrote:Also, Mel Kiper's Big Board had Richardson as the FOURTH ranked DT. Idzik went on his own with that one.

    No I'm sure he had nothing to do with that pick, just the bad ones Smile

    This post is particularly funny.

    Hitler is only remembered for the bad things he did also. Too bad we don't do a better job of remembered all the good he did and his grander vision.

    Lets celebrate the 3 good picks and 3 victories, why focus on the other 17 bad pick, mismanagement of the cap, and 13 loses. Don't worry about that.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Seaver on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 17:48

    Old#15 wrote:last time I checked the organizational chart, the GM outranks the HC and this year we've seen where his will was imposed on Rex to play Geno at QB.  I don't want to hear it wasn't the GM's fault......his name was on every transaction - good and bad.  He's been good with acquiring established NFL players and not so good at identifying college talent beyond what Mel Kiper's board told him to take.

    We just see things differently.  I think your comment about Idzik being good with acquiring established players and not so good with drafting is a reflection of the coaching staff's inability to develop players.  The established players are just that, and Rex doesn't have to develop them.  It was the same in his 1st 2 years here, he had a stable of established vets excluding Sanchez.[/quote]

    really? LB-Davis? DL-Mo? DL-Sheldon? I would however not argue a bit if you want to point to the offensive side. He has a horrible track record and should be a huge part of the case to dismiss him. Then again we can say Idzik doesn't have clue one on drafting offensive talent. That's a bad combo.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by football51 on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 18:13

    Seaver wrote:
    Old#15 wrote:last time I checked the organizational chart, the GM outranks the HC and this year we've seen where his will was imposed on Rex to play Geno at QB.  I don't want to hear it wasn't the GM's fault......his name was on every transaction - good and bad.  He's been good with acquiring established NFL players and not so good at identifying college talent beyond what Mel Kiper's board told him to take.

    We just see things differently.  I think your comment about Idzik being good with acquiring established players and not so good with drafting is a reflection of the coaching staff's inability to develop players.  The established players are just that, and Rex doesn't have to develop them.  It was the same in his 1st 2 years here, he had a stable of established vets excluding Sanchez.

    really?  LB-Davis? DL-Mo? DL-Sheldon? I would however not argue a bit if you want to point to the offensive side.  He has a horrible track record and should be a huge part of the case to dismiss him.  Then again we can say Idzik doesn't have clue one on drafting offensive talent.  That's a bad combo.[/quote]




    Mo/Sheldon=Dunbar + immense talent.



    Davis started out hot this year but has tailed off.



    Amaro looks good. Aboushi shows promise. We'll have to wait and see on Evans and Enunwa. Also, like him or not, Smith is still a viable backup qb/spot starter if he never improves. With a cheap contract, that's a valuable part of a roster. I'd like to see Winters back at his natural position of RT and see how he looks there.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 19 Dec 2014 - 23:46

    Superman55 wrote:
    Old#15 wrote:
    football51 wrote:Also, Mel Kiper's Big Board had Richardson as the FOURTH ranked DT. Idzik went on his own with that one.

    No I'm sure he had nothing to do with that pick, just the bad ones Smile

    This post is particularly funny.

    Hitler is only remembered for the bad things he did also.  Too bad we don't do a better job of remembered all the good he did and his grander vision.

    Lets celebrate the 3 good picks and 3 victories, why focus on the other 17 bad pick, mismanagement of the cap, and 13 loses.  Don't worry about that.
    Godwin's law in action?
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by NickSINYC on Sat 20 Dec 2014 - 2:02

    SackExchange wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    Old#15 wrote:
    football51 wrote:Also, Mel Kiper's Big Board had Richardson as the FOURTH ranked DT. Idzik went on his own with that one.

    No I'm sure he had nothing to do with that pick, just the bad ones Smile

    This post is particularly funny.

    Hitler is only remembered for the bad things he did also.  Too bad we don't do a better job of remembered all the good he did and his grander vision.

    Lets celebrate the 3 good picks and 3 victories, why focus on the other 17 bad pick, mismanagement of the cap, and 13 loses.  Don't worry about that.
    Godwin's law in action?

    Any worthwhile discussion was over a long time ago people are too locked into their positions.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Superman55 on Sat 20 Dec 2014 - 2:18

    Agreed. You're either an excuse maker for Idzik or man enough to hold him accountable for his decisions.

    I don't believe in excuses.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by NickSINYC on Sat 20 Dec 2014 - 4:29

    Superman55 wrote:Agreed.  You're either an excuse maker for Idzik or man enough to hold him accountable for his decisions.

    I don't believe in excuses.

    A little harsh. Don't you think? The man has a mixed record in less than 2 full years. No gm is perfect. He isn't. I am not making any excuses for his misses but to ignore the good and just focus on the bad is one sided. The GM job takes time.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

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