football51 wrote:Can't be. Idzik ruined the Jets.
Funny, still no mention of Ryan's inability to develop anyone other than DL (thanks to Karl Dunbar).
http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/12/how_much_should_jets_blame_former_general_manager_mike_tannenbaums_poor_drafts_for_current_struggles.html
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Idzik's state of the team
Old#15- Honorary Air Commander
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Superman55- Supreme Commander
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Old#15 wrote:football51 wrote:Can't be. Idzik ruined the Jets
Funny, still no mention of Ryan's inability to develop anyone other than DL (thanks to Karl Dunbar).
http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/12/how_much_should_jets_blame_former_general_manager_mike_tannenbaums_poor_drafts_for_current_struggles.html
When will anyone admit that Rex and Idzik ruined the jets?
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Superman55 wrote:Old#15 wrote:football51 wrote:Can't be. Idzik ruined the Jets
Funny, still no mention of Ryan's inability to develop anyone other than DL (thanks to Karl Dunbar).
http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/12/how_much_should_jets_blame_former_general_manager_mike_tannenbaums_poor_drafts_for_current_struggles.html
When will anyone admit that Rex and Idzik ruined the jets?
The Jets were ruined before Idzik even got here. I will admit Idzik did not do enough correct things fast enough to stop the media and a large amount of fans from turning on him. Rex helped ruin this team years before Idzik was even a thought in Woody mind.
Old#15- Honorary Air Commander
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A really good article about potential GMs, but the real meat is the part about the scouting. Shows how bad the pipeline has been for a lot of years; yes even before Idzik. I agree with Costello when he says that the Jets aren't 3-12 because of Idzik's drafts, but because the drafts from 2009 - 2012 produced only a handful of players. That is when the core of the current team should have been drafted. There are no players from the 2009 and 2010 drafts except for Conner and Wilson, if you can call them players. Idzik is done, but the ineptitude of the HC, GMs and most notably the scouting dept. has been a problem for years. Anything short of a complete flush of everyone from the GM down to the lowest level scout and ass't coach will not be enough.
http://nypost.com/2014/12/25/15-names-to-watch-for-jets-gm/
http://nypost.com/2014/12/25/15-names-to-watch-for-jets-gm/
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Old#15 wrote:I agree with Costello when he says that the Jets aren't 3-12 because of Idzik's drafts, but because the drafts from 2009 - 2012 produced only a handful of players. That is when the core of the current team should have been drafted. There are no players from the 2009 and 2010 drafts except for Conner and Wilson, if you can call them players.
I agree with that statement, but the unfortunate fact remains that Idzik did very little to turn things around. Aside from the Geno debacle, which is a combination of lacking football IQ and a development plan that consisted of throwing him into the deep end of the pool, you have the right side of the OL in a bad state with Colon and Giacomini, who has been pretty underwhelming, and the Brian Winters Experience at LG, which was absolutely the worst thing you could do to a rookie QB. WR went through the 2013-14 drafts virtually unaddressed, CB went from scary to a nightmare in 2014...there were a lot of holes in the roster when Idzik got here and most of them are still there. You have to look hard to find positives, and that alone really says it all. It's too bad the fan horde that is out for his blood will get their wish, but you can't keep him around just to show you're not swayed by the loudest fringe. In this case, they happen to be right.
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Well, he could have done more in free agency to impact 2013-14. The draft has to be looked at more through a 3-5 year spectrum.GratefulJet wrote:Old#15 wrote:I agree with Costello when he says that the Jets aren't 3-12 because of Idzik's drafts, but because the drafts from 2009 - 2012 produced only a handful of players. That is when the core of the current team should have been drafted. There are no players from the 2009 and 2010 drafts except for Conner and Wilson, if you can call them players.
I agree with that statement, but the unfortunate fact remains that Idzik did very little to turn things around. Aside from the Geno debacle, which is a combination of lacking football IQ and a development plan that consisted of throwing him into the deep end of the pool, you have the right side of the OL in a bad state with Colon and Giacomini, who has been pretty underwhelming, and the Brian Winters Experience at LG, which was absolutely the worst thing you could do to a rookie QB. WR went through the 2013-14 drafts virtually unaddressed, CB went from scary to a nightmare in 2014...there were a lot of holes in the roster when Idzik got here and most of them are still there. You have to look hard to find positives, and that alone really says it all. It's too bad the fan horde that is out for his blood will get their wish, but you can't keep him around just to show you're not swayed by the loudest fringe. In this case, they happen to be right.
It's fair to bash him for not doing enough in free agency to help the Jets win in the short term. That is a fair criticism. I most hold him accountable for not addressing CB. I don't mind him letting Cro walk, as Cro's value was low. But there were a lot of solid CBs on the market, and he struck out on all of them.
football51- Supreme Commander
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Very good read. It's a little long, but it's worth it.
http://www.footballperspective.com/john-idzik-fired-and-rebuilding-in-new-york/
http://www.footballperspective.com/john-idzik-fired-and-rebuilding-in-new-york/
Old#15- Honorary Air Commander
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football51 wrote:Very good read. It's a little long, but it's worth it.
http://www.footballperspective.com/john-idzik-fired-and-rebuilding-in-new-york/
Article is about as fair of an assessment of Idzik as I have seen. Too bad.
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Old#15 wrote:football51 wrote:Very good read. It's a little long, but it's worth it.
http://www.footballperspective.com/john-idzik-fired-and-rebuilding-in-new-york/
Article is about as fair of an assessment of Idzik as I have seen. Too bad.
Fair? One might substitute the word "sympathetic" and make that an even truer statement. It flat out accuses Rex Ryan of being Manish Mehta's Deep Throat. While there is no doubt Idzik was savaged by the press who hastened his departure--greased the skids, even--if you apply the same standard to this article, it's not hard to see it as the other side of the coin. It actually states that the Jets are in better shape now than when Idzik took over, citing the higher draft position (which after all is a direct consequence of being a worse team), cap space (which came from managing contracts, aka "bean counting", the very thing his detractors accuse him of being good at), and greater level of talent on both sides of the ball, which is debatable if not disprovable, given the team's record. While it does acknowledge Idzik's lack of skill at dealing with the media, it treats that deficiency as some kind of plus, when it is in fact just as necessary for a good GM as bean counting.
My take on the guy is that he was very slow to recognize the problem at CB, and he never had a Plan B for it when Plan A failed. He thus sabotaged his own head coach in that regard (which would certainly give Rex motive for anonymously assassinating Idzik via the beat writers). He also underestimated the importance of acquiring quality skill players and maintaining a cohesive offensive line. Finally, he acted as if he had a dozen years to "patiently" develop a roster, when that is not true anywhere but especially in NY. He lacked decisiveness and the ability to fix problems, and was stubborn to a fault with respect to free agent negotiations. While it would have been difficult to foresee the ferocity of the bloodlust that drove the media to attack him, the general direction of things was pretty easily forecast given Idzik's tone deaf approach to the problems that beset the team.
Whatever the heck his plan was, I won't miss him.
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I bet Idzik is glad or relieved to be out of the Jets dysfunctional organization ?
Go Jets...Cyborg
Go Jets...Cyborg
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cysporsche wrote:I bet Idzik is glad or relieved to be out of the Jets dysfunctional organization ?
Go Jets...Cyborg
Only if he gets hired by another team, I suppose. My guess is Idzik doesn't get a chance anytime soon, if ever again, to be a GM in the NFL. True, the Jets put the "fun" in dysfunctional, but Idzik was not good at his job and that will be underscored by the lack of NFL clubs making runs at him.
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000455712/article/what-makes-the-seattle-seahawks-different?campaign=Twitter_atn
Interesting that the Seahawks cut nine of their draft picks before the end of their rookie seasons between 2010 and 2013( 2010 and 2011 were 7-9 seasons). 15 total were released before the end of their contracts. Shockingly, no billboards were put up.
The Seahawks are the model franchise in the league now. Hopefully fans can see even the great franchises don't always hit in the draft, and it's certainly not realistic to EXPECT "home runs" with each pick.
Interesting that the Seahawks cut nine of their draft picks before the end of their rookie seasons between 2010 and 2013( 2010 and 2011 were 7-9 seasons). 15 total were released before the end of their contracts. Shockingly, no billboards were put up.
The Seahawks are the model franchise in the league now. Hopefully fans can see even the great franchises don't always hit in the draft, and it's certainly not realistic to EXPECT "home runs" with each pick.
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football51 wrote:http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000455712/article/what-makes-the-seattle-seahawks-different?campaign=Twitter_atn
Interesting that the Seahawks cut nine of their draft picks before the end of their rookie seasons between 2010 and 2013( 2010 and 2011 were 7-9 seasons). 15 total were released before the end of their contracts. Shockingly, no billboards were put up.
The Seahawks are the model franchise in the league now. Hopefully fans can see even the great franchises don't always hit in the draft, and it's certainly not realistic to EXPECT "home runs" with each pick.
+1
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GratefulJet wrote:Old#15 wrote:football51 wrote:Very good read. It's a little long, but it's worth it.
http://www.footballperspective.com/john-idzik-fired-and-rebuilding-in-new-york/
Article is about as fair of an assessment of Idzik as I have seen. Too bad.
Fair? One might substitute the word "sympathetic" and make that an even truer statement. It flat out accuses Rex Ryan of being Manish Mehta's Deep Throat. While there is no doubt Idzik was savaged by the press who hastened his departure--greased the skids, even--if you apply the same standard to this article, it's not hard to see it as the other side of the coin. It actually states that the Jets are in better shape now than when Idzik took over, citing the higher draft position (which after all is a direct consequence of being a worse team), cap space (which came from managing contracts, aka "bean counting", the very thing his detractors accuse him of being good at), and greater level of talent on both sides of the ball, which is debatable if not disprovable, given the team's record. While it does acknowledge Idzik's lack of skill at dealing with the media, it treats that deficiency as some kind of plus, when it is in fact just as necessary for a good GM as bean counting.
My take on the guy is that he was very slow to recognize the problem at CB, and he never had a Plan B for it when Plan A failed. He thus sabotaged his own head coach in that regard (which would certainly give Rex motive for anonymously assassinating Idzik via the beat writers). He also underestimated the importance of acquiring quality skill players and maintaining a cohesive offensive line. Finally, he acted as if he had a dozen years to "patiently" develop a roster, when that is not true anywhere but especially in NY. He lacked decisiveness and the ability to fix problems, and was stubborn to a fault with respect to free agent negotiations. While it would have been difficult to foresee the ferocity of the bloodlust that drove the media to attack him, the general direction of things was pretty easily forecast given Idzik's tone deaf approach to the problems that beset the team.
Whatever the heck his plan was, I won't miss him.
^^^This
cysporsche- Supreme Commander
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NickSINYC wrote:Superman55 wrote:Old#15 wrote:football51 wrote:Can't be. Idzik ruined the Jets
Funny, still no mention of Ryan's inability to develop anyone other than DL (thanks to Karl Dunbar).
http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/12/how_much_should_jets_blame_former_general_manager_mike_tannenbaums_poor_drafts_for_current_struggles.html
When will anyone admit that Rex and Idzik ruined the jets?
The Jets were ruined before Idzik even got here. I will admit Idzik did not do enough correct things fast enough to stop the media and a large amount of fans from turning on him. Rex helped ruin this team years before Idzik was even a thought in Woody mind.
+1 He never got a chance to carry out his plan, because Woody tied his hands with Rex as HC. I bet Idzik is somewhere getting the last laugh !
Go Jets...Cyborg
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GMs are (usually)in charge...if they let the HC run the draft and decide their future, shame on them. Nobody ever accused Rex of being a personnel whiz......Idzik just didn't bring anything to the table either and it was a toxic combo. He may have had a sound plan, but w/o execution of said plan, it's only a plan, not a solution.
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I wonder if Dimitri Patterson CB had become the stud CB he was for the Flippers, and Milliner had stayed healthy, if we'd even have a 29 page thread on Idzik's state of the team ?
Go Jets...Cyborg
Go Jets...Cyborg
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cysporsche wrote:I wonder if Dimitri Patterson CB had become the stud CB he was for the Flippers, and Milliner had stayed healthy, if we'd even have a 29 page thread on Idzik's state of the team ?
Go Jets...Cyborg
Cy I think I have mad it clear I think only 2 years for any GM is a raw deal. Playing the what if game doesn't help. I can think of many scenarios were things worked out differently but it's time to move on and let it go. I know I have.
All my attention and focus is on the future. I know that means a lot to you also. Lets just hope we find the right GM/HC combo that will turn our fortunes around. I think we both think the team is closer than some others do.
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cysporsche wrote:I wonder if Dimitri Patterson CB had become the stud CB he was for the Flippers, and Milliner had stayed healthy, if we'd even have a 29 page thread on Idzik's state of the team ?
Go Jets...Cyborg
..or he spent more $$....or Geno was competent....or if he signed/drafted better guards, etc...we could do this endlessly.
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Personally, I would have brought Cro-Daddy back. With that said, there are numerous hypocrites, I mean posters that hated Cromartie and wanted him gone, now they blame Idzik for not bringing him back. Having a hip injury is serious enough, let alone playing CB in the NFL with a bum hip. So between Cro's agent wanting too much money, and the possibility of hip surgery, Idzik made a decision to let Cro walk. Hindsight is 20/20.
Go Jets...Cyborg
Go Jets...Cyborg
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Sorry for beating a dead horse, but his demise came on greatly after selecting Geno SMith in the 2013 draft. That QB class shouldn't have been touched. The only one i would have kicked the tires would have been Ryan Nassib.
A coach that's treading a thin line, plus trying to experiment with a bone head young QB just reaks of disaster. Thats exactly what happened at the end of the day. Idzik died by his own sword.
I doubt Macagnan/Quinn/SHannahan will waste their time trying to groom a QB that really isnt worth the time. Definetly see them trying to either land a QB in a trade (Bradford, Cousins) and draft a QB in the 2nd round.
A coach that's treading a thin line, plus trying to experiment with a bone head young QB just reaks of disaster. Thats exactly what happened at the end of the day. Idzik died by his own sword.
I doubt Macagnan/Quinn/SHannahan will waste their time trying to groom a QB that really isnt worth the time. Definetly see them trying to either land a QB in a trade (Bradford, Cousins) and draft a QB in the 2nd round.
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Seaver wrote:cysporsche wrote:I wonder if Dimitri Patterson CB had become the stud CB he was for the Flippers, and Milliner had stayed healthy, if we'd even have a 29 page thread on Idzik's state of the team ?
Go Jets...Cyborg
..or he spent more $$....or Geno was competent....or if he signed/drafted better guards, etc...we could do this endlessly.
Exactly. Enough with the excuses already and let's move on.
Also saying two years is too short makes no sense...Kotite only got 2 years too, did you need a 3rd year of him as coach/GM to determine he sucked? Maybe some did apparently.
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Brian Costello @BrianCoz
SEA GM Schneider on Idzik: "I felt bad for him. I think that, it’s just my personal opinion that you should be able to hire a head coach."
SEA GM Schneider on Idzik: "I felt bad for him. I think that, it’s just my personal opinion that you should be able to hire a head coach."
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NickSINYC wrote:Brian Costello @BrianCoz
SEA GM Schneider on Idzik: "I felt bad for him. I think that, it’s just my personal opinion that you should be able to hire a head coach."
I don't feel bad for him... You have choices in life... He could have decided to not take the Jets job because he couldn't hire a coach... But the bottom line is he whiffed so bad on the 2014 draft... and subsequently the team had a terrible season that he had to go as did Rex... If he drafts Odell Beckham and Geno played average at best we would have made the playoffs... If I had one the lottery I would be living in Brazil or Argentina or Spain or Puerto Rico maybe Italy.....
Blah blah blah
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