Idzik's state of the team

NickSINYC wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Agreed.  You're either an excuse maker for Idzik or man enough to hold him accountable for his decisions.

I don't believe in excuses.

A little harsh. Don't you think? The man has a mixed record in less than 2 full years. No gm is perfect. He isn't. I am not making any excuses for his misses but to ignore the good and just focus on the bad is one sided. The GM job takes time.

Okay.

The problem with our previous GM, Mike T, was his an ability to draft well and his need to trade picks to acquire talent, leading to a team that lacks depth and is built on other team's talent.

Fast Forward to life under Idzik - 2 years, same problem.

I think it's more than fair to have concerns about our current direction despite the fact I believe Idzik deserves 1 more draft/offseason.

I do think its pathetic how the people on this board know for a fact he has had 20 draft picks and $50 mill in cap space and pretend he didn't f up most of those resources and think its unfair to have concerns.


There isn't a fan base that should have more concerns about their GM than the jets fan base.

WE are seeing one of the most talented draft classes in recent NFL history astonish, we had 12 picks in that draft, and have little to show for it.


There are few professions where you can fail so epically with such a wealth of resources and not have a short leash.

Maybe look at it this way - Rex sucks in so many areas as head coach that I won't even start to list all his deficiencies.

Mark it down - Rex Ryan will be an NFL head coach in 2015, mark it down.

This will happen, and the statement the organizations that interview him are making, is that your front office is a joke, that's why you sucked last year.

You and I know, that's not true, Rex does have a ton of warts. But people who work, live, sleep, and make a living in the NFL believe more in Rex than Idzik.

They may be wrong, Nick. But the Bears, Phins, and Atlanta are going to interview Rex, I directly calling our front office a joke. And from what I've seen the first two years, I can't say they're wrong.

[quote="Superman55"][quote="Old#15"][quote="football51"]
Hitler is only remembered for the bad things he did also.  Too bad we don't do a better job of remembered all the good he did and his grander vision.


Are you kidding me with this?  I know you don't give a bleep about what others on this board think about you, but I'm going to tell you anyway. I cannot believe that you could not come up with a  better analogy than this.  But is it just a really poor analogy or do you really believe that he did a lot of good??????

I don't want to hijack this board with a personal tete-a-tete (we can continue via PM if you wish and I will give you the last word), but I just wanted to go on record that your statement is way out of bounds and that the respect I had for you is gone.  

Go ahead and retort - I will read it and then set you on "ignore" - which I know doesn't really matter to you.

I have no doubt Rex will land a HC job. Atlanta, Chicago, maybe Miami or Oakland, though Atlanta may be the favorite.

Rex needs to go someplace that just had a strict disciplinarian. His outlook would be refreshing. Smith isn't the biggest hard nose, but it could be a good change for Atlanta. Veteran team, already has its QB...to me, it makes the most sense.

Problem for those teams is, the longer Rex is somewhere, the more his lack of accountability leads to guys getting lazy. A lot of Jets right now are lazy, to be honest, because they don't have to work hard for Rex.

Sure, guys like playing for Rex, mainly because he doesn't hold them accountable. But they don't like playing for him enough to play hard, at least not after a while.

WilliesDad wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

Old#15 wrote:

football51 wrote:
Hitler is only remembered for the bad things he did also.  Too bad we don't do a better job of remembered all the good he did and his grander vision.


Are you kidding me with this?  I know you don't give a bleep about what others on this board think about you, but I'm going to tell you anyway. I cannot believe that you could not come up with a  better analogy than this.  But is it just a really poor analogy or do you really believe that he did a lot of good??????

I don't want to hijack this board with a personal tete-a-tete (we can continue via PM if you wish and I will give you the last word), but I just wanted to go on record that your statement is way out of bounds and that the respect I had for you is gone.  

Go ahead and retort - I will read it and then set you on "ignore" - which I know doesn't really matter to you.

I thought it was a ridiculous and out-of-bounds analogy, as well. There was absolutely no reason to take it there, other than the fact that it's the internet, and everything has to be compared to the Nazis.

Herm and Mangini got jobs right away after we fired them too. The problem with that is they had no time to step back and reflect upon their deficiencies, and they just continued that trend in their new job leading to yet another termination.



I guess John Schneider and Bill Polian don't count anymore because they don't view Idzik as a joke. Oh well, it must be nice to be an internet gm. Praise the job Idzik does, then the first sign of struggle, do a complete 180 and bash everything he does. It's that impulsive way of thinking that leads people to fly drones over practice fields and put up crazy billboards. The only jokes I see was the 2012 roster Idzik inherited, the coach Idzik was forced to keep, the front office Idzik was forced to keep, and the fan reaction to Idzik when it's obvious that he wasn't allowed to fully implement change in the organization. It's funny how dismissive some are of Ryan's follies( which started long before anyone here heard of John Idzik) and just want to pile on the "new guy". Ryan should've been gone long ago( just ask his buddy Pettine). By his own admission, he lost the team three years ago. He obviously needs a ready made team in place to succeed.



NO gm is right all of the time. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't our 1998 draft under Parcells a complete flop. I already posted a complete flop of a draft by Baalke. Who knows, this past draft for us might end up in that category too, but to judge it now, without many even getting a chance to play(for various reasons) is flawed logic at best. Like I said before, our new magic gm will be praised once hired, his picks will be praised in may, then come august, the same posters who praised him will start to pick him apart if his choices don't instantly produce.

Superman55 wrote:Agreed.  You're either an excuse maker for Idzik or man enough to hold him accountable for his decisions.

I don't believe in excuses.

I guess I'm not man enough. My opinion about Idzik's job status differs from yours, and I'm somehow more feminine as a result. Got it.

Blindsidebrick wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Agreed.  You're either an excuse maker for Idzik or man enough to hold him accountable for his decisions.

I don't believe in excuses.

I guess I'm not man enough. My opinion about Idzik's job status differs from yours, and I'm somehow more feminine as a result. Got it.

Isn't it great that it has to be one extreme or the other? No room for middle ground .

Superman55 wrote:Agreed.  You're either an excuse maker for Idzik or man enough to hold him accountable for his decisions.

I don't believe in excuses.

do we hold you accountable for your opinions?

you loved geno coming into this year....now we have no QB

you loved the pryor and amaro and mcdougle picks. now idzik can't draft

you loved the decker and CJ and vick signings...now idzik can't sign free agents

or how about you wanted to sign Walter Thurmond...he lasted all of 2 games this year before getting another injury


i understand you aren't a GM and you're just a message board poster. but many of the things you are bashing Idzik over are the same things you previously applauded.

so should we hold you accountable???

SackExchange wrote:

WilliesDad wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

Old#15 wrote:

football51 wrote:
Hitler is only remembered for the bad things he did also.  Too bad we don't do a better job of remembered all the good he did and his grander vision.


Are you kidding me with this?  I know you don't give a bleep about what others on this board think about you, but I'm going to tell you anyway. I cannot believe that you could not come up with a  better analogy than this.  But is it just a really poor analogy or do you really believe that he did a lot of good??????

I don't want to hijack this board with a personal tete-a-tete (we can continue via PM if you wish and I will give you the last word), but I just wanted to go on record that your statement is way out of bounds and that the respect I had for you is gone.  

Go ahead and retort - I will read it and then set you on "ignore" - which I know doesn't really matter to you.

I thought it was a ridiculous and out-of-bounds analogy, as well. There was absolutely no reason to take it there, other than the fact that it's the internet, and everything has to be compared to the Nazis.

Its an analogy, if you're that sensitive, its' better you ignore me and go back to your Dick Clark specials and I Love Lucy re-runs. Society has long since past you by...in the 90s or so.

hobson54 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Agreed.  You're either an excuse maker for Idzik or man enough to hold him accountable for his decisions.

I don't believe in excuses.

do we hold you accountable for your opinions?

you loved geno coming into this year....now we have no QB

you loved the pryor and amaro and mcdougle picks.  now idzik can't draft

you loved the decker and CJ and vick signings...now idzik can't sign free agents

or how about you wanted to sign Walter Thurmond...he lasted all of 2 games this year before getting another injury


i understand you aren't a GM and you're just a message board poster.  but many of the things you are bashing Idzik over are the same things you previously applauded.

so should we hold you accountable???

Yes.

Hobson, this is a very easy conversation.

I was wrong about Geno and appear to be right that Decker and Amaro were good picks/decisions (add Ivory, Harvin, and Richardson to the list if you want)...and Moncreif, and Deonne Buchannon, and Swearinger, and Cyprien, and Cooks...I was wrong about Benjamin, but right about where Lee, Matthews, and Bridgewater would be drafted...i could go on and on.

Its okay to admit being right and wrong...too bad some cant admit Idzik has made wrong decisions and try to push all the blame to Ryan...like he got rid of Cro and Revis for Patterson and Milliner (ouch, any other team would look at the Jets deciding to remove Cro and revis for Patterson and Milliner and laugh out loud...they would probably do the same on losing 26 year old Howard for 29 year old Gia to save $1.5 mill on the cap that is about to increase by $30 mill for a far inferior player - Idzik had insider info on Gia also...fairly shameful)...enough painful decisions to get us to be a 3 win team...enough painful decisions to blind the majority of NFL of Rex's flaws because Idzik's decisions have been so bad...

if you're going to praise his good decisions: Ivory, Richardson, Amaro, Decker, Harvin...

...its okay to fault him for Geno, Milliner, Winters, Saunders, Goodson, Gia, Colon, Pryor, McDougle, etc, etc...even if you thought they were good picks at the time, and after seeing the player over time, determine he isn't the bill of goods you thought they were in April.

its okay to say over time, you've changed your mind on a decision. I hoped Milliner's 5 surgeries in college didn't lead to 4 additional surgeries his first two years on the Jets...it has, making it a bad gamble...

At the time, it was a fine gamble. Now, its a bad gamble. What's wrong with saying that? How is that different from being optimistic about Sanchez his first 3 years and admitting it was a bad pick now? Doesnt change the fact I liked the move at the time...we needed a franchise QB. I can say now, it was a bad pick. Same deal.

Superman55 wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

WilliesDad wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

Old#15 wrote:

football51 wrote:
Hitler is only remembered for the bad things he did also.  Too bad we don't do a better job of remembered all the good he did and his grander vision.


Are you kidding me with this?  I know you don't give a bleep about what others on this board think about you, but I'm going to tell you anyway. I cannot believe that you could not come up with a  better analogy than this.  But is it just a really poor analogy or do you really believe that he did a lot of good??????

I don't want to hijack this board with a personal tete-a-tete (we can continue via PM if you wish and I will give you the last word), but I just wanted to go on record that your statement is way out of bounds and that the respect I had for you is gone.  

Go ahead and retort - I will read it and then set you on "ignore" - which I know doesn't really matter to you.

I thought it was a ridiculous and out-of-bounds analogy, as well. There was absolutely no reason to take it there, other than the fact that it's the internet, and everything has to be compared to the Nazis.

Its an analogy, if you're that sensitive, its' better you ignore me and go back to your Dick Clark specials and I Love Lucy re-runs.  Society has long since past you by...in the 90s or so.  

You're right. Everything should be compared to Nazism, because it's so chic.

SackExchange wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

WilliesDad wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

Old#15 wrote:

football51 wrote:
Hitler is only remembered for the bad things he did also.  Too bad we don't do a better job of remembered all the good he did and his grander vision.


Are you kidding me with this?  I know you don't give a bleep about what others on this board think about you, but I'm going to tell you anyway. I cannot believe that you could not come up with a  better analogy than this.  But is it just a really poor analogy or do you really believe that he did a lot of good??????

I don't want to hijack this board with a personal tete-a-tete (we can continue via PM if you wish and I will give you the last word), but I just wanted to go on record that your statement is way out of bounds and that the respect I had for you is gone.  

Go ahead and retort - I will read it and then set you on "ignore" - which I know doesn't really matter to you.

I thought it was a ridiculous and out-of-bounds analogy, as well. There was absolutely no reason to take it there, other than the fact that it's the internet, and everything has to be compared to the Nazis.

Its an analogy, if you're that sensitive, its' better you ignore me and go back to your Dick Clark specials and I Love Lucy re-runs.  Society has long since past you by...in the 90s or so.  

You're right. Everything should be compared to Nazism, because it's so chic.

If that's what one gets from the post, their loss.

Like hearing the story of Icarus and the only thing you get out of it is how did they make wings out of wax?

Your loss.

Superman55 wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

WilliesDad wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

Old#15 wrote:

football51 wrote:
Hitler is only remembered for the bad things he did also.  Too bad we don't do a better job of remembered all the good he did and his grander vision.


Are you kidding me with this?  I know you don't give a bleep about what others on this board think about you, but I'm going to tell you anyway. I cannot believe that you could not come up with a  better analogy than this.  But is it just a really poor analogy or do you really believe that he did a lot of good??????

I don't want to hijack this board with a personal tete-a-tete (we can continue via PM if you wish and I will give you the last word), but I just wanted to go on record that your statement is way out of bounds and that the respect I had for you is gone.  

Go ahead and retort - I will read it and then set you on "ignore" - which I know doesn't really matter to you.

I thought it was a ridiculous and out-of-bounds analogy, as well. There was absolutely no reason to take it there, other than the fact that it's the internet, and everything has to be compared to the Nazis.

Its an analogy, if you're that sensitive, its' better you ignore me and go back to your Dick Clark specials and I Love Lucy re-runs.  Society has long since past you by...in the 90s or so.  

Rather then being apologetic for this ludicrous analogy you throw more wood on the fire with this ridiculous response. What the hell is wrong with you? Can't you engage in a dialog without being a belligerent bully?

JMO but back and fort posts on non football stuff just continues to keep the thread off topic. Better to handle it through PMs

I believe Rex confirmed for us Sunday that he really should just be a DC. His biggest effort came from that side of the ball. The offensive side on 2 scoring drives took the ball out of Geno's hands in the redzone on 3rd downs. That's not coaching to win. I love the passion Rex has brought, but he really is just another in that line of coordinators who will struggle in the big chair......ie Norv Turner, Wade Phillips, Dom Capers, Mike Nolan.

Problem here is Rex really is handcuffed on the Offensive side of the ball with not having a QB/

The coordinators you pointed out suffered with quality personnel on the opposite side of there expertise as well as seemed to under perform on the side of the ball they were experts on..... They just didn't motivate a team very well


Rex motivates the whole team... But with all that said I do believe GM and Coach have to go..

lnap23 wrote:Problem here is Rex really is handcuffed on the Offensive side of the ball with not having a QB/

The coordinators you pointed out suffered with quality personnel on the opposite side of there expertise as well as seemed to under perform on the side of the ball they were experts on.....  They just didn't motivate a team very well


Rex motivates the whole team...  But with all that said I do believe GM and Coach have to go..  

problem for most of those fellas was they gave up coordinator duties and as such some of the play to play calls suffered........whereas with Rex his experiment to let Pettine call the plays wasn't as good as he himself doing it.....but when he does the other side suffers. He can't juggle the gig.

I'm using our favorite scribe's quote because if true, it may point to the larger problem within the Jets front office. Idzik was thrown into the job with a holdover HC, scouting department, and other 'suits' who all have a direct line to Woody. Too many competing agendas and or philosophies. Woody runs the Jets like a Fortune 500 company or worse a government agency with layers of bureaucrats and 'yes-men'. That is not a healthy environment for a winning football organization. Call me an apologist, but I think its a no-win for Idzik or any other "GM" under those conditions.

Manish Mehta @MMehtaNYDN

Source defines Jets front office since John Idzik took over this way: "No clear chain of command" & "a lack of communication" #nyj

Old#15 wrote:I'm using our favorite scribe's quote because if true, it may point to the larger problem within the Jets front office.  Idzik was thrown into the job with a holdover HC, scouting department, and other 'suits' who all have a direct line to Woody.  Too many competing agendas and or philosophies.  Woody runs the Jets like a Fortune 500 company or worse a government agency with layers of bureaucrats and 'yes-men'.  That is not a healthy environment for a winning football organization.  Call me an apologist, but I think its a no-win for Idzik or any other "GM" under those conditions.

Manish Mehta   @MMehtaNYDN  

Source defines Jets front office since John Idzik took over this way: "No clear chain of command" & "a lack of communication" #nyj

It may be true, but him saying it just means the same as previously stated, it may be true, because he's just guessing like me and you.

well if the personality is right, that leader can get others to follow. Idzik strikes me as more of closed circle of 1

Also, doesn't the GM put players on IR? Mo, Percy, and Mangold should t even have the option to play this weekend. Rex is dumb enough to play them, so why be dumb enough to give him the option?

Superman55 wrote:Also, doesn't the GM put players on IR?  Mo, Percy, and Mangold should t even have the option to play this weekend.  Rex is dumb enough to play them, so why be dumb enough to give him the option?

what if the GM feels HE himself needs a win.......

Seaver wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Also, doesn't the GM put players on IR?  Mo, Percy, and Mangold should t even have the option to play this weekend.  Rex is dumb enough to play them, so why be dumb enough to give him the option?

what if the GM feels HE himself needs a win.......

Then he's as dumb and short sighted as Rex.

Superman55 wrote:

Seaver wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Also, doesn't the GM put players on IR?  Mo, Percy, and Mangold should t even have the option to play this weekend.  Rex is dumb enough to play them, so why be dumb enough to give him the option?

what if the GM feels HE himself needs a win.......

Then he's as dumb and short sighted as Rex.

Dumb and short sighted aren't JI characteristics.  Maybe in the Jets' dysfunctional organization, he doesn't have that authority.  That would be Jocelyn Norman's (Neil Glat's secretary) job!  

Can't be. Idzik ruined the Jets .





http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/12/how_much_should_jets_blame_former_general_manager_mike_tannenbaums_poor_drafts_for_current_struggles.html