Idzik's state of the team

SackExchange wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:Guys, sorry to be anti-Idzik advocate here but, the idea that somehow magically Milliner, McDougle, Evans, Pryor and so on are going to suddenly turn into star players is well unrealistic.  Milliner and Pryor were first round picks and expected to contribute immediately.  They have done nothing.  McDougle has a history of injuries and who knows if he even make the roster next year after that severe of a knee injury.  He may never be the same.  

Milliner has been extremely underwhelming and thus far looks like a complete bust of a top ten pick.  The WRs  - the Jets could have drafted 10 other WRs, all of whom are making impacts in the league this year and starting on far better teams.  While I admire your patience, I believe it is unwarranted in this case.  I would be surprised if either player makes the roster next season if we had a new GM and new coach.  

Finally, as far as Harvin is concerned - Harvin is a dynamic player.  Great talent.  But there is no guarantee he will be on the roster next year because of his contract.  And more to the point, a new coaching staff may not want him.  He has been a notorious headache for teams over time.  I hope he turns that around here because he is a very good player, but again let's not go crazy over this.  Getting Harvin was a good, low risk move.  But for this season, it was too little, too late.  

The bottom line is Idzik has a very mixed track record in free agency, and a very underwhelming draft record to date.  And that is being generous.  That's just not good enough and not acceptable.  

I disagree entirely about Milliner. He has shown at the very least that at the end of last year, he was a legitimate starting CB, a borderline #1. Saying Milliner has done nothing is just flat-out wrong. Pryor, well, we won't know until someone actually plays him at strong safety. Rex has mishandled him.

McDougle, I just don't know how people can blame Idzik for his blown knee. Yes, he'd had prior injuries, but none of them were knees. You can't predict a knee injury like that.

Blindsidebrick wrote:McDougle, I just don't know how people can blame Idzik for his blown knee. Yes, he'd had prior injuries, but none of them were knees. You can't predict a knee injury like that.

You can't blame Idzik for anticipating a season ending knee injury to McDougle, but that won't stop some people from blaming him anyway.

There's an agenda at work here for some fans. And the agenda is this: find all the problems and connect them to Idzik. So we can fire him and get rid of the bogeyman.

And then we'll hire some other unfortunate soul who'll get a whopping 25 minutes to prove himself to Jets fans. And maybe he'll get that wiggle room with Manish Mehta, too. Before the inevitable crucifixion.

You just have to laugh, at this point.

NickSINYC wrote:

Superman55 wrote:
People can make excuses for Idzik if they want, but just like I'm sure Idzik wishes things worked out better for Milliner, Geno, Winters, and McDougle...I'm sure Mike wished better things came from Sanchez, Wilson, Hill, and Gholston.  In the end, they both seem to be very mediocre at picking...but the scouting department under Bradway remains bulletproof...and all reports are they will be leading next year's draft.

My problem with the comparison is you are comparing players with 4 to 6 years experience with players with less than 2 some less than 1. IMO there has not been enough time past to fairly evaluate Idzik drafts. I am not saying they will pan out they may not. I'm just say more time is needed.

LIJETFAN wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:Guys, sorry to be anti-Idzik advocate here but, the idea that somehow magically Milliner, McDougle, Evans, Pryor and so on are going to suddenly turn into star players is well unrealistic.  Milliner and Pryor were first round picks and expected to contribute immediately.  They have done nothing.  McDougle has a history of injuries and who knows if he even make the roster next year after that severe of a knee injury.  He may never be the same.  

Milliner has been extremely underwhelming and thus far looks like a complete bust of a top ten pick.  The WRs  - the Jets could have drafted 10 other WRs, all of whom are making impacts in the league this year and starting on far better teams.  While I admire your patience, I believe it is unwarranted in this case.  I would be surprised if either player makes the roster next season if we had a new GM and new coach.  

Finally, as far as Harvin is concerned - Harvin is a dynamic player.  Great talent.  But there is no guarantee he will be on the roster next year because of his contract.  And more to the point, a new coaching staff may not want him.  He has been a notorious headache for teams over time.  I hope he turns that around here because he is a very good player, but again let's not go crazy over this.  Getting Harvin was a good, low risk move.  But for this season, it was too little, too late.  

The bottom line is Idzik has a very mixed track record in free agency, and a very underwhelming draft record to date.  And that is being generous.  That's just not good enough and not acceptable.  

I disagree entirely about Milliner. He has shown at the very least that at the end of last year, he was a legitimate starting CB, a borderline #1. Saying Milliner has done nothing is just flat-out wrong. Pryor, well, we won't know until someone actually plays him at strong safety. Rex has mishandled him.

McDougle, I just don't know how people can blame Idzik for his blown knee. Yes, he'd had prior injuries, but none of them were knees. You can't predict a knee injury like that.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Milliner.  He played well the last four games, that's true.  But the first 12 he was awful.  He had receivers running wide open on him constantly.  And he looked terrible this season again before he went down with his injury.  He was constantly injured during training camp with a hamstring or some other ailment.  The guy can't stay on the field.  He had an injury history before he got to the NFL.  He missed all of training camp last season because of a shoulder injury he had in college.  Sorry, but playing well in four games in my opinion does not make him a #1 CB.  He is closer to being a bust than a #1 CB in my opinion.    

Pryor - you can make an argument that Rex mishandled him.  But he has done absolutely nothing on the field to keep his job. Nothing.   And today the rumor is that he does not turn up on time for meetings, which is unprofessional.  If that's true - that's not exactly what you would expect from a #1 draft pick.  

McDougle was another player with an injury history.    So I can't put my faith in a player that has never even played one NFL game and who missed his entire last season of college football.  He was a very high risk pick.  And who knows if he is even going to be able to recover fully from this injury.  Will the next coaching staff even want him?  We have no idea whether he can play or not at this point.  

I don't blame Idzik for McDougle's injury at all.  I do blame Idzik for an underwhelming track record.  

My issue simply is, I have very little faith that this guy can get it right.  And for those with faith in him, I don't understand where the belief in Idzik comes from - to me there is very little basis for it.  This team has gotten worse, not better under his watch.  How does that justify keeping him?  I just don't understand the logic.   To me the other built in excuse is, he needs more time.  More time to do what exactly?   Granted, we have nowhere to go but up, but do you really entrust this guy to put together a championship roster when he can't even find more than one starter in a 12 pick draft?  I just don't get it.  

LIJETFAN wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:Guys, sorry to be anti-Idzik advocate here but, the idea that somehow magically Milliner, McDougle, Evans, Pryor and so on are going to suddenly turn into star players is well unrealistic.  Milliner and Pryor were first round picks and expected to contribute immediately.  They have done nothing.  McDougle has a history of injuries and who knows if he even make the roster next year after that severe of a knee injury.  He may never be the same.  

Milliner has been extremely underwhelming and thus far looks like a complete bust of a top ten pick.  The WRs  - the Jets could have drafted 10 other WRs, all of whom are making impacts in the league this year and starting on far better teams.  While I admire your patience, I believe it is unwarranted in this case.  I would be surprised if either player makes the roster next season if we had a new GM and new coach.  

Finally, as far as Harvin is concerned - Harvin is a dynamic player.  Great talent.  But there is no guarantee he will be on the roster next year because of his contract.  And more to the point, a new coaching staff may not want him.  He has been a notorious headache for teams over time.  I hope he turns that around here because he is a very good player, but again let's not go crazy over this.  Getting Harvin was a good, low risk move.  But for this season, it was too little, too late.  

The bottom line is Idzik has a very mixed track record in free agency, and a very underwhelming draft record to date.  And that is being generous.  That's just not good enough and not acceptable.  

I disagree entirely about Milliner. He has shown at the very least that at the end of last year, he was a legitimate starting CB, a borderline #1. Saying Milliner has done nothing is just flat-out wrong. Pryor, well, we won't know until someone actually plays him at strong safety. Rex has mishandled him.

McDougle, I just don't know how people can blame Idzik for his blown knee. Yes, he'd had prior injuries, but none of them were knees. You can't predict a knee injury like that.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Milliner.  He played well the last four games, that's true.  But the first 12 he was awful.  He had receivers running wide open on him constantly.  And he looked terrible this season again before he went down with his injury.  He was constantly injured during training camp with a hamstring or some other ailment.  The guy can't stay on the field.  He had an injury history before he got to the NFL.  He missed all of training camp last season because of a shoulder injury he had in college.  Sorry, but playing well in four games in my opinion does not make him a #1 CB.  He is closer to being a bust than a #1 CB in my opinion.    

Pryor - you can make an argument that Rex mishandled him.  But he has done absolutely nothing on the field to keep his job. Nothing.   And today the rumor is that he does not turn up on time for meetings, which is unprofessional.  If that's true - that's not exactly what you would expect from a #1 draft pick.  

McDougle was another player with an injury history.    So I can't put my faith in a player that has never even played one NFL game and who missed his entire last season of college football.  He was a very high risk pick.  And who knows if he is even going to be able to recover fully from this injury.  Will the next coaching staff even want him?  We have no idea whether he can play or not at this point.  

I don't blame Idzik for McDougle's injury at all.  I do blame Idzik for an underwhelming track record.  

My issue simply is, I have very little faith that this guy can get it right.  And for those with faith in him, I don't understand where the belief in Idzik comes from - to me there is very little basis for it.  This team has gotten worse, not better under his watch.  How does that justify keeping him?  I just don't understand the logic.   To me the other built in excuse is, he needs more time.  More time to do what exactly?   Granted, we have nowhere to go but up, but do you really entrust this guy to put together a championship roster when he can't even find more than one starter in a 12 pick draft?  I just don't get it.  

cysporsche wrote:I agree with Sack, Idzik is not totally to blame for this mess, like Bradway heading up the draft room, he's pitiful and still here ? Bradway helped run off our best draft guy to the Bronco's or Raiders, i don't remember his name. And I'd bet anyone that Pryor was totally a Rex pick wanting another Ed Reed type of safety. Rex is also a terrible talent evaluator which hurts the club. Give Idzik a break.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Seaver wrote:

cysporsche wrote:I agree with Sack, Idzik is not totally to blame for this mess, like Bradway heading up the draft room, he's pitiful and still here ? Bradway helped run off our best draft guy to the Bronco's or Raiders, i don't remember his name. And I'd bet anyone that Pryor was totally a Rex pick wanting another Ed Reed type of safety. Rex is also a terrible talent evaluator which hurts the club. Give Idzik a break.

Go Jets...Cyborg

but the doesn't the GM have final say on the picks?  At what point does HE accept responsibility?  Why can't he fire Bradway?  Maybe it is a troubling sign that he took the job with concessions like keeping Rex and Bradway.  Maybe we need a stronger GM that will get control away from Woody's country club cronies.  Maybe Idzik was doomed from the start and it just needs a flush.

I've gone on record before and I do now......if Idzik changes the voices in his ear for the draft.......I'll take a ride with him.  If he has no control over that, what use is he?

football51 wrote: Joe Caporoso retweeted
Chris Lopresti @CLoprestiWFAN  ·  23h 23 hours ago
Best rated offense player from yesterday? Oday Aboushi at 2.2 (1.1 in pass blocking). Vick drew the worst grade at -3.6. (h/t @pff) #NYJ



Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  23h 23 hours ago
Guessing many #Jets fans were calling Aboushi a "F" draft pick after the first 10 games of his career...

Seaver wrote:

cysporsche wrote:I agree with Sack, Idzik is not totally to blame for this mess, like Bradway heading up the draft room, he's pitiful and still here ? Bradway helped run off our best draft guy to the Bronco's or Raiders, i don't remember his name. And I'd bet anyone that Pryor was totally a Rex pick wanting another Ed Reed type of safety. Rex is also a terrible talent evaluator which hurts the club. Give Idzik a break.

Go Jets...Cyborg

but the doesn't the GM have final say on the picks?  At what point does HE accept responsibility?  Why can't he fire Bradway?  Maybe it is a troubling sign that he took the job with concessions like keeping Rex and Bradway.  Maybe we need a stronger GM that will get control away from Woody's country club cronies.  Maybe Idzik was doomed from the start and it just needs a flush.

I've gone on record before and I do now......if Idzik changes the voices in his ear for the draft.......I'll take a ride with him.  If he has no control over that, what use is he?

cysporsche wrote:I agree with Sack, Idzik is not totally to blame for this mess, like Bradway heading up the draft room, he's pitiful and still here ? Bradway helped run off our best draft guy to the Bronco's or Raiders, i don't remember his name. And I'd bet anyone that Pryor was totally a Rex pick wanting another Ed Reed type of safety. Rex is also a terrible talent evaluator which hurts the club. Give Idzik a break.

Go Jets...Cyborg

SackExchange wrote:So there are wholesale changes after this year. Rex is gone, Idzik is gone, the entire front office is replaced.

Next season, the first half of the year has a tough schedule. Jets get off to a slow start. How long before Jets fans are calling for yet more firings?

Seaver wrote:

SackExchange wrote:So there are wholesale changes after this year. Rex is gone, Idzik is gone, the entire front office is replaced.

Next season, the first half of the year has a tough schedule. Jets get off to a slow start. How long before Jets fans are calling for yet more firings?

to be fair....a new regime gets some rope.  Even Idzik got a year.....on top of that this will be a team coming off a losing record as opposed to 8-8.  A new HC brings different expectations.  Many fans saw similarities coming into 2014 with 2009.........inexperienced QB and good defense.  Some pundits predicted playoffs.  Injuries and ineffectiveness torpedoed that idea.

bottom line is there shouldn't be a call to fire the GM for at least 2+ years because of doing a complete reset at HC and GM.

LIJETFAN wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:Guys, sorry to be anti-Idzik advocate here but, the idea that somehow magically Milliner, McDougle, Evans, Pryor and so on are going to suddenly turn into star players is well unrealistic.  Milliner and Pryor were first round picks and expected to contribute immediately.  They have done nothing.  McDougle has a history of injuries and who knows if he even make the roster next year after that severe of a knee injury.  He may never be the same.  

Milliner has been extremely underwhelming and thus far looks like a complete bust of a top ten pick.  The WRs  - the Jets could have drafted 10 other WRs, all of whom are making impacts in the league this year and starting on far better teams.  While I admire your patience, I believe it is unwarranted in this case.  I would be surprised if either player makes the roster next season if we had a new GM and new coach.  

Finally, as far as Harvin is concerned - Harvin is a dynamic player.  Great talent.  But there is no guarantee he will be on the roster next year because of his contract.  And more to the point, a new coaching staff may not want him.  He has been a notorious headache for teams over time.  I hope he turns that around here because he is a very good player, but again let's not go crazy over this.  Getting Harvin was a good, low risk move.  But for this season, it was too little, too late.  

The bottom line is Idzik has a very mixed track record in free agency, and a very underwhelming draft record to date.  And that is being generous.  That's just not good enough and not acceptable.  

I disagree entirely about Milliner. He has shown at the very least that at the end of last year, he was a legitimate starting CB, a borderline #1. Saying Milliner has done nothing is just flat-out wrong. Pryor, well, we won't know until someone actually plays him at strong safety. Rex has mishandled him.

McDougle, I just don't know how people can blame Idzik for his blown knee. Yes, he'd had prior injuries, but none of them were knees. You can't predict a knee injury like that.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Milliner.  He played well the last four games, that's true.  But the first 12 he was awful.  He had receivers running wide open on him constantly.  And he looked terrible this season again before he went down with his injury.  He was constantly injured during training camp with a hamstring or some other ailment.  The guy can't stay on the field.  He had an injury history before he got to the NFL.  He missed all of training camp last season because of a shoulder injury he had in college.  Sorry, but playing well in four games in my opinion does not make him a #1 CB.  He is closer to being a bust than a #1 CB in my opinion.    

Pryor - you can make an argument that Rex mishandled him.  But he has done absolutely nothing on the field to keep his job. Nothing.   And today the rumor is that he does not turn up on time for meetings, which is unprofessional.  If that's true - that's not exactly what you would expect from a #1 draft pick.  

McDougle was another player with an injury history.    So I can't put my faith in a player that has never even played one NFL game and who missed his entire last season of college football.  He was a very high risk pick.  And who knows if he is even going to be able to recover fully from this injury.  Will the next coaching staff even want him?  We have no idea whether he can play or not at this point.  

I don't blame Idzik for McDougle's injury at all.  I do blame Idzik for an underwhelming track record.  

My issue simply is, I have very little faith that this guy can get it right.  And for those with faith in him, I don't understand where the belief in Idzik comes from - to me there is very little basis for it.  This team has gotten worse, not better under his watch.  How does that justify keeping him?  I just don't understand the logic.   To me the other built in excuse is, he needs more time.  More time to do what exactly?   Granted, we have nowhere to go but up, but do you really entrust this guy to put together a championship roster when he can't even find more than one starter in a 12 pick draft?  I just don't get it.  

BlindsideBrick - Not sure if you saw my post above, or if your comments about the agenda were directed towards me specifically.  But this post further clarifies my position.  
For the record, I don't have an agenda other than I want the Jets organization to become a winning organization.  That's my only agenda.  I'm not looking to blame everything on one person.  I think this is collective failure across the Board.  I am advocating for wholesale changes, not just Idzik, not just Rex.  But changes throughout the organization to fix this mess.  One "Any Given Sunday" win against the Steelers does not change the fact this team has major issues, and it starts at the top with the GM.  I think everyone needs to held accountable.  

And if you read my post, I ask the question, what has Idzik done to deserve such blind faith at this point?  This team is worse, not better than when he took over, and that is saying something because they were bad when he was hired.  The record is what it is - 2-8.  This team is as bad we've seen in 25 years.  Now they might win a few games here down the stretch against equally bad teams, but the season was over by midway point after an embarrassing loss to the Bills.  That's unacceptable, and the owner should see it that way.  And if it is unacceptable to the fans, and to the owner, then you need to make the necessary organizational changes to make sure that doesn't happen again.  That's my opinion.

SackExchange wrote:Any new HC will need to bring in his own guys. I do think a four-man front is a possibility, especially if Dan Quinn replaces Rex.

That ALL depends on the Idzik situation. Initially, I was sure he was coming back. But I am beginning to doubt that. Woody does care about perception, and the rash actions of some Jets "fans" is almost forcing his hand.

Of course, knowing Jets fans as we do, I'm sure the new regime will be called idiots the first time they draft someone who Tony from Bayonne wouldn't have drafted.

SackExchange wrote:

Seaver wrote:

SackExchange wrote:So there are wholesale changes after this year. Rex is gone, Idzik is gone, the entire front office is replaced.

Next season, the first half of the year has a tough schedule. Jets get off to a slow start. How long before Jets fans are calling for yet more firings?

to be fair....a new regime gets some rope.  Even Idzik got a year.....on top of that this will be a team coming off a losing record as opposed to 8-8.  A new HC brings different expectations.  Many fans saw similarities coming into 2014 with 2009.........inexperienced QB and good defense.  Some pundits predicted playoffs.  Injuries and ineffectiveness torpedoed that idea.

bottom line is there shouldn't be a call to fire the GM for at least 2+ years because of doing a complete reset at HC and GM.

A year? Jets fans are patient because they waited until the GM (who, by the way, did not even get to choose his HC) was into his second season before calling for him to be fired?

It takes 2-3 years, at least. for a GM to fully implement his plan. But this is Jetsland, where the guy who gets to choose his own HC gets 2 years, and the guy who doesn't get to choose his own HC gets one.

And for the record, Idzik took over a team coming off a 6-10 year.