Idzik's state of the team

Blindsidebrick wrote:I must say, although I'm entirely on the side of football51's argument, it's a good debate between him and LIJETSFAN.

Well done, Gents. And nice job keeping it classy. I hate it when the name-calling starts.

Thanks Blindsidebrick - it was a good debate. Fairly argued on both sides in my opinion. I'm just trying to keep the conversations lively.

football51 wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:Well obviously he has done enough to earn your trust and confidence.  So much so that he deserves more time.  So your crystal ball must work far better than mine to see Idzik's potential greatness at 1-7.    I hope you're right.  

no, after 24 games, he's an incomplete. IMO, more evaluation is needed. like seeng the players he drafted get off IR and show what they can/can't do. like having his own hand picked coach and see if that staff can get more out of the personnel we already have. who knows, maybe the new staff will even be able to develop players outside of defensive lineman which hasn't happened around here in ages. out of curiosity, when did you want to be done with Rex? He hasn't produced since 2010. It seems that some guys are given the benefit of the doubt and others get the mob mentality. i must admit, media trolls like Mehta want Idzik out so bad that he's quite intriguing to me.

I didn't get to respond to this question yesterday on Rex. I said on another thread that Rex's time here is done this year. I was a definitely a fan of Rex. He had his flaws, but I did not want to discount what he did his first two seasons. I thought he did a pretty solid job last year with a rookie QB and a talent deficient team. 8-8 exceeded my expectations. This year however the team is exactly you described, mistake prone, undisciplined, and unprepared. That to me signals that his time is done. I said it I believe after the San Diego game that his time here should be over.

If you are drawing the comparison between Rex & Idzik, here's the difference, Rex has a lot of success his first two years. Idzik has had very little. Now Tannenbaum played a big role in that too, even before Rex got here. But they did a great job of working together and attracting top free agents, and making the right personnel moves via trades, to get players that were big contributors. So, a valid argument from your perspective would be: let Idzik find his guy and see if they can duplicate that success. That would be a fair point.

And yes, Nick, it might be premature to fully evaluate Idzik after 2 seasons. You're right. And I said his record is mixed. I am just saying that in my opinion, starting over with a new coach, and a new QB is a rebuilding effort. And as a Jet fan I don't the GM with a mixed record of success and a 1-7 football team leading another rebuilding effort, because I have seen too many of them over the years.

I want to find the next Ron Wolf or Bill Polian. Not the next Graves. I set the bar high. And I think we all should. Why accept mediocrity? The Yankees don't. The Patriots don't. The Giants don't. Why should the Jets or their fans? If someone is delivering mediocre results, go and find someone that can deliver exceptional results. That's what I am saying. In two years if Idizk magically transforms this team into a Super Bowl Champion - terrific. I'll be a believer and support him. But, I am having a really hard time seeing that right now based on his record thus far.

NickSINYC wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:Well obviously he has done enough to earn your trust and confidence.  So much so that he deserves more time.  So your crystal ball must work far better than mine to see Idzik's potential greatness at 1-7.    I hope you're right.  

No crystal ball is needed for me to make this statement. No GM is perfect find your favorite GM and research him you will see his fair share of misses. Any GM Idzik included needs a minimum of 4 years to be fairly judged. Any firm conclusions made before then are premature IMO

This. + whateveramountyouwant

Anyone who seriously thinks Rex was given a chance for his defense to succeed this season should consider the following:

"9. Four-corner defense: They have already started four different cornerbacks, and that total will grow to five if Josh Thomas or Marcus Williams gets the start in Kansas City. Here is the kicker: None of the five started more than 12 games before this season."

Pretty sure Rex's defense needs CBs. Not saying idzik sabotaged the season, just saying Idzik did not align personnel with the coaching staff.

Superman55 wrote:Anyone who seriously thinks Rex was given a chance for his defense to succeed this season should consider the following:

"9. Four-corner defense: They have already started four different cornerbacks, and that total will grow to five if Josh Thomas or Marcus Williams gets the start in Kansas City. Here is the kicker: None of the five started more than 12 games before this season."

Pretty sure Rex's defense needs CBs.  Not saying idzik sabotaged the season, just saying Idzik did not align personnel with the coaching staff.

Understood, but maybe Rex shouldn't brag about being able to stop teams without having good corners.

He didn't align the roster with the coaching staff or with the schedule, which was loaded with the top QBs in the league.  Rex should stop bragging, because this defense on the back-end is porous.  I'm sure he knows it.  I don't blame Rex for the gaps in personnel. .  But again, Rex is gone.  That's already a done deal.  

The Jets are now a pathetic 1-8 and staring at 1-9 going into the bye week after the Steeler game.  The Steelers are playing good football and again, the Jets are catching a QB that is red hot, which has blow out written all over it.

The only question that remains is who should go with him.  I unintentionally hijacked this thread debating 51 arguing that the best thing to do is start over fresh.  I am not sure that is going to happen, but I still believe is the right move for a variety of reasons.  I do know that this silly Billboard idea is indicative of the fact that there are a lot Jet fans out there that have seen enough of the product that is on the field this season to take their complaint to the extreme.   So much so that they are willing to put up their own money to make their point.  Regardless of how silly the idea may appear, Woody does need to take notice of it.  When you have season ticket holders crying foul en masse that's a problem.  

For me, I simply don't have confidence that Idzik can turn it around based on his performance thus far.  He can change that.   Here's my issue - I don't want to have to continually wait to be proven either right or wrong.  I want the Jets to get it right the first time.  We have seen plenty of failure of over the years, and even more mediocrity.  We have seen this team exercise patience to a fault with players, coaches and GMs.  I no longer see the need to wait for someone like Idzik to maybe possibly one day if the stars align get it right.  I want someone to come in and get it right immediately, and continue to get it right.  Someone with instant credibility.  Not someone trying to gain credibility, and in the case of Idzik, actually try to regain it, because he lost a ton of it this season.  The Jets need to find that person to be the GM.  They need to find that person as their next HC.  They need to find that trait in their next QB draft pick.  That will start to turn this team around.  Because if they have credibility, it means they have been successful.  If they have been successful, then there's a chance that they can duplicate that success with the Jets.  Idzik doesn't have that.  He has very little credibility with the fans, even less credibility with the media and the team's record does nothing to dispel those perceptions.  And the fans and the media will continue to apply pressure to this guy and to Woody until they run him out of town.  That is why I say the best thing to do is to start over fresh.  If you are going to rebuild, then completely rebuild.  

Woody can send everyone a message to the fans that he's seen enough.  That he is not going to accept putting this kind of product on the field while he is an owner.   And he can do that best by making the bold decision to start over completely.  That's my opinion.  

If Idzik stays, and he and his staff change my perception because they completely turn this team around next year that's great.   Then, I will waive the Idzik banner and support him.  But right now, I have a really hard time seeing it, especially at 1-8.

LIJETFAN wrote:He didn't align the roster with the coaching staff or with the schedule, which was loaded with the top QBs in the league.  Rex should stop bragging, because this defense on the back-end is porous.  I'm sure he knows it.  I don't blame Rex for the gaps in personnel. .  But again, Rex is gone.  That's already a done deal.  

The Jets are now a pathetic 1-8 and staring at 1-9 going into the bye week after the Steeler game.  The Steelers are playing good football and again, the Jets are catching a QB that is red hot, which has blow out written all over it.

The only question that remains is who should go with him.  I unintentionally hijacked this thread debating 51 arguing that the best thing to do is start over fresh.  I am not sure that is going to happen, but I still believe is the right move for a variety of reasons.  I do know that this silly Billboard idea is indicative of the fact that there are a lot Jet fans out there that have seen enough of the product that is on the field this season to take their complaint to the extreme.   So much so that they are willing to put up their own money to make their point.  Regardless of how silly the idea may appear, Woody does need to take notice of it.  When you have season ticket holders crying foul en masse that's a problem.  

For me, I simply don't have confidence that Idzik can turn it around based on his performance thus far.  He can change that.   Here's my issue - I don't want to have to continually wait to be proven either right or wrong.  I want the Jets to get it right the first time.  We have seen plenty of failure of over the years, and even more mediocrity.  We have seen this team exercise patience to a fault with players, coaches and GMs.  I no longer see the need to wait for someone like Idzik to maybe possibly one day if the stars align get it right.  I want someone to come in and get it right immediately, and continue to get it right.  Someone with instant credibility.  Not someone trying to gain credibility, and in the case of Idzik, actually try to regain it, because he lost a ton of it this season.  The Jets need to find that person to be the GM.  They need to find that person as their next HC.  They need to find that trait in their next QB draft pick.  That will start to turn this team around.  Because if they have credibility, it means they have been successful.  If they have been successful, then there's a chance that they can duplicate that success with the Jets.  Idzik doesn't have that.  He has very little credibility with the fans, even less credibility with the media and the team's record does nothing to dispel those perceptions.  And the fans and the media will continue to apply pressure to this guy and to Woody until they run him out of town.  That is why I say the best thing to do is to start over fresh.  If you are going to rebuild, then completely rebuild.  

Woody can send everyone a message to the fans that he's seen enough.  That he is not going to accept putting this kind of product on the field while he is an owner.   And he can do that best by making the bold decision to start over completely.  That's my opinion.  

If Idzik stays, and he and his staff change my perception because they completely turn this team around next year that's great.   Then, I will waive the Idzik banner and support him.  But right now, I have a really hard time seeing it, especially at 1-8.

This is a terrific post. As someone who weakly (and only because "continuity") supports giving Idzik another year or so, I have to admit you make a very compelling argument for a full reboot. The counter-argument is "what GM worth his Admiral Club membership will want to come to a team that fires GMs after 1.5 years", and the answer is "unemployed GM candidates" of which there are surely several. The last time Woody looked for a GM, he went through a search firm and ended up with Idzik. Maybe he needs to go sit at a bar somewhere and talk to strangers.

It boils down to whether or not Woody believes in Idzik's plan. Since Idzik hasn't made clear what that plan is, beyond "building through the draft", not sure how he's going to sell it to Woody. The problem isn't necessarily with the plan but rather with its execution. (Right now, that's something many are in favor of.)

[quote="LIJETFAN"]He didn't align the roster with the coaching staff or with the schedule, which was loaded with the top QBs in the league.  Rex should stop bragging, because this defense on the back-end is porous.  I'm sure he knows it.  I don't blame Rex for the gaps in personnel. .  But again, Rex is gone.  That's already a done deal.  

Maybe the plan that Idzik sold Woody on player procurement ideology didn't necessarily align with Rex. Maybe in carrying out a long term plan, you don't spend all of your available cap space on overpriced CBs because you have a 6 game murders row of QBs this year. Maybe Woody is completely on board with what Idzik has been able to do so far regardless of what Rex has been able to do with it. Maybe Woody sees that Idzik got Rex and MM a bunch a shiny new toys on offense that neither one has done much with.
One other thing, I think that Rex is in some way to blame for the gaps in personnel. He hasn't developed draftees for the last 6 years, and I'm sure that he was on board for many of at least the highly drafted defensive guys. #1 picks and a lot of $$ spent on DBs Wilson, Milliner and Pryor, DL Coples and QB Sanchez - all either gone or not performing. Wasted #2s on Hill, Smith, etc. Other than Mo, Richardson and Amaro what have we got to show for the last 6 years' drafts? Remember also that five of those drafts have been with Tanny's scouts and Rex. Last year was Idzik's first with his guys (except Bradway) and a full year on the job. I'm not making excuses for the guy but those are the facts, besides all of those shiny new toys on offense are all Idzik's acquisitions.

I'm not totally sold on keeping Idzik. What I want is some level of continuity. My big problem with dumping Idzik is on pulling the plug before his plan has any chance of working.

If the franchise wants to reset entirely, fine. I can't complain too much if Idzik goes with Rex. The question is, how long would this new regime get? Is it even possible for a front office to have the opportunity to build a perennial winner? Or are fans so impatient that the Jets can't build from within and need to win now?

If you get rid of Idzik, you had better know you can bring in someone better, and someone who will both have the ability and be given the time to build a consistent winner. Calling for heads to roll because of one bad season will only force the new GM to spend cap room on aging free agents and trade picks for veterans.

Jets fans want to win now. The problem is, you can only go so far by being in a win-now mode. Playoff teams are built that way, but championship teams aren't. Unfortunately, the impatience of Jets fans will never allow for anyone, Idzik or otherwise, to actually build a championship team from the ground up.

SackExchange wrote:I'm not totally sold on keeping Idzik. What I want is some level of continuity. My big problem with dumping Idzik is on pulling the plug before his plan has any chance of working.

If the franchise wants to reset entirely, fine. I can't complain too much if Idzik goes with Rex. The question is, how long would this new regime get? Is it even possible for a front office to have the opportunity to build a perennial winner? Or are fans so impatient that the Jets can't build from within and need to win now?

If you get rid of Idzik, you had better know you can bring in someone better, and someone who will both have the ability and be given the time to build a consistent winner. Calling for heads to roll because of one bad season will only force the new GM to spend cap room on aging free agents and trade picks for veterans.

Jets fans want to win now. The problem is, you can only go so far by being in a win-now mode. Playoff teams are built that way, but championship teams aren't. Unfortunately, the impatience of Jets fans will never allow for anyone, Idzik or otherwise, to actually build a championship team from the ground up.

The way I would put it is, Jets fans don't want to go 1-8 when they've been told this is a talented team. I think a good portion of the fan base would tolerate some level of mediocrity (I mean, what else have the last few years been if not mediocrity) if there was a sense that the talent base was building for a championship run. I think Rex has set expectations too high with all his braggadocio. Not only does it raise fans' expectations, but players' as well, and you couple that with the fact there is no player accountability attached to those high expectations, and you get 1-8, players not understanding why they suck when Rex has been telling them how wonderful they are, and the fans screaming for everyone's head because they feel like they've been lied to.

SackExchange wrote:I'm not totally sold on keeping Idzik. What I want is some level of continuity. My big problem with dumping Idzik is on pulling the plug before his plan has any chance of working.

If the franchise wants to reset entirely, fine. I can't complain too much if Idzik goes with Rex. The question is, how long would this new regime get? Is it even possible for a front office to have the opportunity to build a perennial winner? Or are fans so impatient that the Jets can't build from within and need to win now?

If you get rid of Idzik, you had better know you can bring in someone better, and someone who will both have the ability and be given the time to build a consistent winner. Calling for heads to roll because of one bad season will only force the new GM to spend cap room on aging free agents and trade picks for veterans.

Jets fans want to win now. The problem is, you can only go so far by being in a win-now mode. Playoff teams are built that way, but championship teams aren't. Unfortunately, the impatience of Jets fans will never allow for anyone, Idzik or otherwise, to actually build a championship team from the ground up.

I agree with the whole post but the highlighted area is what concerns me. I don't want a team that just squeaks into the playoffs year after year with no chance of winning the Super Bowl. That is what we will get if Woody makes appeasing the impatient fans a priority. 

I would like to add this I believe the same group of impatient fans looking to knee cap Idzik will be 1st in line crying why do we have no young talent, no cap room and why can't we get past the 1st round of the playoffs.

GratefulJet wrote:

SackExchange wrote:I'm not totally sold on keeping Idzik. What I want is some level of continuity. My big problem with dumping Idzik is on pulling the plug before his plan has any chance of working.

If the franchise wants to reset entirely, fine. I can't complain too much if Idzik goes with Rex. The question is, how long would this new regime get? Is it even possible for a front office to have the opportunity to build a perennial winner? Or are fans so impatient that the Jets can't build from within and need to win now?

If you get rid of Idzik, you had better know you can bring in someone better, and someone who will both have the ability and be given the time to build a consistent winner. Calling for heads to roll because of one bad season will only force the new GM to spend cap room on aging free agents and trade picks for veterans.

Jets fans want to win now. The problem is, you can only go so far by being in a win-now mode. Playoff teams are built that way, but championship teams aren't. Unfortunately, the impatience of Jets fans will never allow for anyone, Idzik or otherwise, to actually build a championship team from the ground up.

The way I would put it is, Jets fans don't want to go 1-8 when they've been told this is a talented team. I think a good portion of the fan base would tolerate some level of mediocrity (I mean, what else have the last few years been if not mediocrity) if there was a sense that the talent base was building for a championship run. I think Rex has set expectations too high with all his braggadocio. Not only does it raise fans' expectations, but players' as well, and you couple that with the fact there is no player accountability attached to those high expectations, and you get 1-8, players not understanding why they suck when Rex has been telling them how wonderful they are, and the fans screaming for everyone's head because they feel like they've been lied to.

I agree. There was some misleading done, though I think this team is far better than 1-8. The only huge holes now are at QB and CB, both big holes, but the front seven is very good at stopping both the run and pass, the OL is decent, and the run game is pretty good. That is not a 1-8 team's makeup.

Rex's blind faith in his players works well when the message is new and the team is stacked with solid veterans. When it's younger, developing guys, the positive reinforcement is good, but there also needs to be accountability.

But Rex is popular, especially with the fans. The team has regressed almost every year he's been here, two highly-drafted and high-profile QBs have tanked, mental mistakes are all over the place, the preparation has been questioned, and there have been internal blow-ups, yet Rex gets off easy because he's likable. He doesn't come across as too smart, and he's the kind of guy fans want to have a beer with. He's perfect for a rough-around-the-edges fan base. Therefore, there's a big sign to Fire Idzik going up after less than two years, and no such sign to Fire Rex after almost six.

That said, I really, really doubt this fan base would allow for a true winner to ever be built here if it meant one or two pretty rough seasons.

One concern I have about firing a GM after 1 or 2 seasons is that it doesn't allow them to have a long term plan, and it takes away their incentive toward long term thinking. Once you establish that you will fire them if they don't turn the team around immediately, then they will load all available resources into the season they're given. Possibly trade future draft picks for a better chance this season. If I knew that would win me a Super Bowl, I'd sign up for it. But what if it doesn't?

I get the calls for firing everyone, but I just don't see how anything changes until we have a real QB on this team, and getting one of those is much harder than anything else. There are only like 6 or 7 guys in the world who are actually good enough to play the position correctly, it's not surprising that GMs have a hard time finding/acquiring them. They make or break coach and GM careers though. We'll be having this same conversation until the team finally gets someone who can play quarterback, and when we do, we'll talk about how whoever are the coach and GM at that time are really good at their jobs.

NickSINYC wrote:

SackExchange wrote:I'm not totally sold on keeping Idzik. What I want is some level of continuity. My big problem with dumping Idzik is on pulling the plug before his plan has any chance of working.

If the franchise wants to reset entirely, fine. I can't complain too much if Idzik goes with Rex. The question is, how long would this new regime get? Is it even possible for a front office to have the opportunity to build a perennial winner? Or are fans so impatient that the Jets can't build from within and need to win now?

If you get rid of Idzik, you had better know you can bring in someone better, and someone who will both have the ability and be given the time to build a consistent winner. Calling for heads to roll because of one bad season will only force the new GM to spend cap room on aging free agents and trade picks for veterans.

Jets fans want to win now. The problem is, you can only go so far by being in a win-now mode. Playoff teams are built that way, but championship teams aren't. Unfortunately, the impatience of Jets fans will never allow for anyone, Idzik or otherwise, to actually build a championship team from the ground up.

I agree with the whole post but the highlighted area is what concerns me. I don't want a team that just squeaks into the playoffs year after year with no chance of winning the Super Bowl. That is what we will get if Woody makes appeasing the impatient fans a priority. 

I would like to add this I believe the same group of impatient fans looking to knee cap Idzik will be 1st in line crying why do we have no young talent, no cap room and why can't we get past the 1st round of the playoffs.

It's because those fans think fondly of 2009 and 2010, or even as far back as the 2002 division title. Sorry, that's not enough for me. I've seen it before.

If you ask me if I would trade the next two years for several years of legit championship caliber teams, I would take it. But some fans wouldn't, because all they care about is now.

SackExchange wrote:
That said, I really, really doubt this fan base would allow for a true winner to ever be built here if it meant one or two pretty rough seasons.

The good news is that the fans don't actually have any authority. They might take a beating in PSLs or whatever for a few seasons, but that would be dwarfed by the money they would make if they ever won the Super Bowl. The media and the fans can complain all they want, but in the end, Woody is the one who controls what the team does.

JohnnyBaseball wrote:

SackExchange wrote:
That said, I really, really doubt this fan base would allow for a true winner to ever be built here if it meant one or two pretty rough seasons.

The good news is that the fans don't actually have any authority. They might take a beating in PSLs or whatever for a few seasons, but that would be dwarfed by the money they would make if they ever won the Super Bowl. The media and the fans can complain all they want, but in the end, Woody is the one who controls what the team does.

Which is why I hope he stays the course.

I don't know if Idzik is the answer or not. There are certainly questions about him. But I'm not in favor of pulling the plug until we know one way or another.

If the plug IS pulled, I want his successor to have a longer leash than he did...though honestly, I doubt that happens.

If you give Jet fans a plan they can believe in, and they trust in the person executing the plan then I believe they will be patient. I am all for continuity and stability. But continuity and stability comes from making great decisions, gaining credibility and having success. Right now, are you confident that Idzik makes great decisions, has a credible plan, is executing his plan well, and is having success? Or is the reverse true? At 1-8, it is very hard to see great decisions, a credible plan, good execution and success. Maybe I'm blind, but I just don't see it. So again, I ask on what basis should any of us be patient? For the sake of continuity and stability? That's a poor way to run a business in my opinion.

LIJETFAN wrote:If you give Jet fans a plan they can believe in, and they trust in the person executing the plan then I believe they will be patient.  I am all for continuity and stability.  But continuity and stability comes from making great decisions, gaining credibility and having success.  Right now, are you confident that Idzik makes great decisions, has a credible plan, is executing his plan well, and is having success?  Or is the reverse true?  At 1-8, it is very hard to see great decisions, a credible plan, good execution and success.  Maybe I'm blind, but I just don't see it.  So again, I ask on what basis should any of us be patient?  For the sake of continuity and stability? That's a poor way to run a business in my opinion.    

I fear I do not have the confidence in this fan base that you do. This board tends to be the exception, not the rule.

If you look at the old board, the Jets Insider people and some of our old regulars who blend in better over there, you will see just how kneejerk and impatient a significant portion of the fan base is.

So yes, the fans will believe in a plan, but that plan better include winning right now, or else.

LIJETFAN wrote:If you give Jet fans a plan they can believe in, and they trust in the person executing the plan then I believe they will be patient.  I am all for continuity and stability.  But continuity and stability comes from making great decisions, gaining credibility and having success.  Right now, are you confident that Idzik makes great decisions, has a credible plan, is executing his plan well, and is having success?  Or is the reverse true?  At 1-8, it is very hard to see great decisions, a credible plan, good execution and success.  Maybe I'm blind, but I just don't see it.  So again, I ask on what basis should any of us be patient?  For the sake of continuity and stability? That's a poor way to run a business in my opinion.    

I can't say whether Idzik will be successful or not if given time to build the team properly. What I will say is he was handicapped from the start by Woody. His mandate to Idzik was to keep Rex and trade Revis. Idzik was also handicapped by a terrible cap situation. 

Idzik cleaned up the cap situation vastly improve the talent on offense so far. It has been less than 2 years. The Jets are 1-8 but the talent here even with the holes still needed to be plugged on the roster is better than that. That is on Rex and once again that can't be blamed on Idzik. Also if Woody didn't force Idzik hand with Revis maybe Rex would have the CB he needed.

Woody should fire Rex then fire himself.

If the team wants to clean house fine I can live with that but Woody needs to bring in someone with full control and stay away from the team.

SackExchange wrote:

JohnnyBaseball wrote:

SackExchange wrote:
That said, I really, really doubt this fan base would allow for a true winner to ever be built here if it meant one or two pretty rough seasons.

The good news is that the fans don't actually have any authority. They might take a beating in PSLs or whatever for a few seasons, but that would be dwarfed by the money they would make if they ever won the Super Bowl. The media and the fans can complain all they want, but in the end, Woody is the one who controls what the team does.

Which is why I hope he stays the course.

I don't know if Idzik is the answer or not. There are certainly questions about him. But I'm not in favor of pulling the plug until we know one way or another.

If the plug IS pulled, I want his successor to have a longer leash than he did...though honestly, I doubt that happens.

Sack, I agree with your statement on Idzik's successor generally. With a better hire, I'm sure he would get that time.

NickSINYC wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:If you give Jet fans a plan they can believe in, and they trust in the person executing the plan then I believe they will be patient.  I am all for continuity and stability.  But continuity and stability comes from making great decisions, gaining credibility and having success.  Right now, are you confident that Idzik makes great decisions, has a credible plan, is executing his plan well, and is having success?  Or is the reverse true?  At 1-8, it is very hard to see great decisions, a credible plan, good execution and success.  Maybe I'm blind, but I just don't see it.  So again, I ask on what basis should any of us be patient?  For the sake of continuity and stability? That's a poor way to run a business in my opinion.    

I can't say whether Idzik will be successful or not if given time to build the team properly. What I will say is he was handicapped from the start by Woody. His mandate to Idzik was to keep Rex and trade Revis. Idzik was also handicapped by a terrible cap situation. 

Idzik cleaned up the cap situation vastly improve the talent on offense so far. It has been less than 2 years. The Jets are 1-8 but the talent here even with the holes still needed to be plugged on the roster is better than that. That is on Rex and once again that can't be blamed on Idzik. Also if Woody didn't force Idzik hand with Revis maybe Rex would have the CB he needed.

Woody should fire Rex then fire himself.

If the team wants to clean house fine I can live with that but Woody needs to bring in someone with full control and stay away from the team.

Nick, I get your point on Revis. But, Revis ran himself out of town too. You can't entirely blame Woody for that. Listen, I was a huge Revis fan. I never wanted him traded. But, the truth is, he owns some of that with his outlandish salary demands and hardline negotiations year in and year out.

I also get your point on Rex. It's really the only legitimate argument in my mind that can be made for Idzik to stay - he didn't pick his own coach. He did however pick the players. And he had 12 chances to improve the roster in the draft. The team went from 8-8 to 1-8 after last year's draft. It's been made clear that Idzik picks the players, Rex gets one pick each draft. Idzik, Bradway and Graves are the guys running the show on personnel and roster moves now.

As far the talent on this team, I guess we disagree there. The team is 1-8, so it's hard for me to say that a 1-8 team is talented enough to compete with the best teams in the league. The Jets don't have a franchise QB on the roster. The CBs are terrible, and I will throw Milliner into that mix because the guy can't stay on the field. The Offensive line is aging at two positions. I can't even tell if the safeties can play because the whole secondary is just awful. And Landry is aging too. The WRs are improved, that's true. Amaro might be a player at TE. He is at least a serviceable pro so far. The RBs are certainly good enough to win with. The D-Line is among the best in the league. The LBs are solid, but again aging at two positions. There are some talented players for sure, but I see team that needs a lot of help. And we have little depth at most positions. And of course, until we get a QB, this team is going nowhere.

SackExchange wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:If you give Jet fans a plan they can believe in, and they trust in the person executing the plan then I believe they will be patient.  I am all for continuity and stability.  But continuity and stability comes from making great decisions, gaining credibility and having success.  Right now, are you confident that Idzik makes great decisions, has a credible plan, is executing his plan well, and is having success?  Or is the reverse true?  At 1-8, it is very hard to see great decisions, a credible plan, good execution and success.  Maybe I'm blind, but I just don't see it.  So again, I ask on what basis should any of us be patient?  For the sake of continuity and stability? That's a poor way to run a business in my opinion.    

I fear I do not have the confidence in this fan base that you do. This board tends to be the exception, not the rule.

If you look at the old board, the Jets Insider people and some of our old regulars who blend in better over there, you will see just how kneejerk and impatient a significant portion of the fan base is.

So yes, the fans will believe in a plan, but that plan better include winning right now, or else.

Can't disagree with anything you said here. You make a fair point.

SackExchange wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:If you give Jet fans a plan they can believe in, and they trust in the person executing the plan then I believe they will be patient.  I am all for continuity and stability.  But continuity and stability comes from making great decisions, gaining credibility and having success.  Right now, are you confident that Idzik makes great decisions, has a credible plan, is executing his plan well, and is having success?  Or is the reverse true?  At 1-8, it is very hard to see great decisions, a credible plan, good execution and success.  Maybe I'm blind, but I just don't see it.  So again, I ask on what basis should any of us be patient?  For the sake of continuity and stability? That's a poor way to run a business in my opinion.    

I fear I do not have the confidence in this fan base that you do. This board tends to be the exception, not the rule.

If you look at the old board, the Jets Insider people and some of our old regulars who blend in better over there, you will see just how kneejerk and impatient a significant portion of the fan base is.

So yes, the fans will believe in a plan, but that plan better include winning right now, or else.

That's all true, but two facts remain: the fans don't pick the players, and the fans don't play the game. The fans are not the reason this team is 1-8. While my view of a large number of Jets fans and the media is every bit as dim as yours, I don't hold any of them responsible for the current state of the team. You've been beating this horse relentlessly for quite a while, and I get it, but to me it is really a side issue, not to mention a very dead horse.

Brian Costello @BrianCoz
Jets 5th round pick LB Jeremiah George played 10 snaps for the Jaguars on Sunday. He made 3 tackles, one for a loss. #nyj

Awesome. Not all Jets fans suck.