Idzik's state of the team

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:All those receivers mentioned have QB's throwing to them. The Jets benched their starting QB, and are struggling with their backup. Having a stable QB situation helps any WR.

And let's not act like Idzik ignored the receiver position, especially if you consider TE a receiver. Decker, Amaro, and Percy Harvin (when the situation arose).  Throw in Kerley. Is WR an area of need? The arguments about misjudging the CB position have some merit. Trying to take this argument to WR, less so.

Enumwa and Evans are still unknowns. Both or either could be factors next season. Assuming we have a good QB throwing to them.

Except a TE is not a WR. It is a TE.

When we went into the draft, we had Decker, Kerley, and a bunch of JAGs. Now we have Decker, Kerley, Harvin and a bunch of JAGs. Who is our #4? Who is our deep threat? We have no depth at the position, and we don't have a true HR hitter aside from Harvin, who you can't include in a conversation about the 2014 draft. We'll hve to agree to disagree. This is an area where supply and demand met, and we waited till the 4th round to address the position, and then cut the first guy we did draft. There's simply no way to spin that as a job well done, sorry.

When you watch Jace Amaro play, do you see a mauling run blocker opening up huge holes for Ivory, or do you see a player overwhelmingly being a factor as a receiver?

Call it whatever you want. He's catching the ball. Otherwise known as "receiving" the ball.

Superman55 wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:All those receivers mentioned have QB's throwing to them. The Jets benched their starting QB, and are struggling with their backup. Having a stable QB situation helps any WR.

And let's not act like Idzik ignored the receiver position, especially if you consider TE a receiver. Decker, Amaro, and Percy Harvin (when the situation arose).  Throw in Kerley. Is WR an area of need? The arguments about misjudging the CB position have some merit. Trying to take this argument to WR, less so.

Enumwa and Evans are still unknowns. Both or either could be factors next season. Assuming we have a good QB throwing to them.

Except a TE is not a WR. It is a TE.

When we went into the draft, we had Decker, Kerley, and a bunch of JAGs. Now we have Decker, Kerley, Harvin and a bunch of JAGs. Who is our #4? Who is our deep threat? We have no depth at the position, and we don't have a true HR hitter aside from Harvin, who you can't include in a conversation about the 2014 draft. We'll hve to agree to disagree. This is an area where supply and demand met, and we waited till the 4th round to address the position, and then cut the first guy we did draft. There's simply no way to spin that as a job well done, sorry.

The team is 1-8, and you are complaining about whether there is a hole with the #4 WR? Seriously? (Most teams don't have great #4s, so Salas isn't exactly a huge hole there.)

Harvin is the deep threat. The Jets did not use a 2014 draft pick to fill that hole, they used a 2015 pick to do so.

Maybe he could have taken someone else in the draft. There were a few guys I wanted over the guys he drafted. But that doesn't make me right. Only time will tell.

Now that we have Harvin, agreed. I thought he meant at the time of the draft in April 2014.

Having already cut our 4th and 5th rd draft picks...kind of makes me wish we packaged some picks and moved up or down in the draft...or drafted Ellington rd 4 (went 2 picks after Saunders) or packaged some picks to get their WR.

I also love the Amaro pick, but he's not a WR.  Now we have Harvin, WR need is less than at the time those decisions were made last April.

It would have been nice to have a WR in the bush with those 4th and 5th rd picks playing on other teams today to help as a deep threat or in other useful receiving areas, IMO.

That is correct. I clearly was. But I guess it's easier to ignore that and argue with a strawman.

Obviously, we needed to draft a SS as a backup plan in case things went south with our CB situation. That was a much better use of our first round pick, and it's worked out so well. Have to give credit where credit is due on that one.

Idzik obviously knew he was going to be able to grab Harvin 7 games into the season. So why waste a high pick on a WR? Besides, other than the fact he looked slow, rounded off his cuts, and dropped as many passes as he caught, Evans looked great in training camp (before he went on IR) for someone who missed all of OTAs due the the UCLA quarter system. (You can't seriously blame Idzik for not knowing about that!)

Rex is the designated fall guy. I just have to get with the program.

Blindsidebrick wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:All those receivers mentioned have QB's throwing to them. The Jets benched their starting QB, and are struggling with their backup. Having a stable QB situation helps any WR.

And let's not act like Idzik ignored the receiver position, especially if you consider TE a receiver. Decker, Amaro, and Percy Harvin (when the situation arose).  Throw in Kerley. Is WR an area of need? The arguments about misjudging the CB position have some merit. Trying to take this argument to WR, less so.

Enumwa and Evans are still unknowns. Both or either could be factors next season. Assuming we have a good QB throwing to them.

Except a TE is not a WR. It is a TE.

When we went into the draft, we had Decker, Kerley, and a bunch of JAGs. Now we have Decker, Kerley, Harvin and a bunch of JAGs. Who is our #4? Who is our deep threat? We have no depth at the position, and we don't have a true HR hitter aside from Harvin, who you can't include in a conversation about the 2014 draft. We'll hve to agree to disagree. This is an area where supply and demand met, and we waited till the 4th round to address the position, and then cut the first guy we did draft. There's simply no way to spin that as a job well done, sorry.

When you watch Jace Amaro play, do you see a mauling run blocker opening up huge holes for Ivory, or do you see a player overwhelmingly being a factor as a receiver?

Call it whatever you want. He's catching the ball. Otherwise known as "receiving" the ball.

So does Chris Johnson...he's receiving the ball...if we drafted a running back, does that address our receiving hole?

No.

If we drafted Tony Gaunzalez 2.0, it doesn't change the fact we had a hole at WR that wasn't filled, and Idzik trusted David Nelson and Stephen Hill to fill that hole...none of which are currently on our roster...

Also, he signed Graham to steal reps from Salas...obviously, he's not too thrilled with him either.

Doesn't look like signing Chris Johnson or drafting Amaro fixed the issue...trading for Percy did for me though. I dont think gratefulJet feels the same way...

GratefulJet wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:All those receivers mentioned have QB's throwing to them. The Jets benched their starting QB, and are struggling with their backup. Having a stable QB situation helps any WR.

And let's not act like Idzik ignored the receiver position, especially if you consider TE a receiver. Decker, Amaro, and Percy Harvin (when the situation arose).  Throw in Kerley. Is WR an area of need? The arguments about misjudging the CB position have some merit. Trying to take this argument to WR, less so.

Enumwa and Evans are still unknowns. Both or either could be factors next season. Assuming we have a good QB throwing to them.

Except a TE is not a WR. It is a TE.

When we went into the draft, we had Decker, Kerley, and a bunch of JAGs. Now we have Decker, Kerley, Harvin and a bunch of JAGs. Who is our #4? Who is our deep threat? We have no depth at the position, and we don't have a true HR hitter aside from Harvin, who you can't include in a conversation about the 2014 draft. We'll hve to agree to disagree. This is an area where supply and demand met, and we waited till the 4th round to address the position, and then cut the first guy we did draft. There's simply no way to spin that as a job well done, sorry.

The team is 1-8, and you are complaining about whether there is a hole with the #4 WR? Seriously? (Most teams don't have great #4s, so Salas isn't exactly a huge hole there.)

Harvin is the deep threat. The Jets did not use a 2014 draft pick to fill that hole, they used a 2015 pick to do so.

Maybe he could have taken someone else in the draft. There were a few guys I wanted over the guys he drafted. But that doesn't make me right. Only time will tell.

Now that we have Harvin, agreed. I thought he meant at the time of the draft in April 2014.

Having already cut our 4th and 5th rd draft picks...kind of makes me wish we packaged some picks and moved up or down in the draft...or drafted Ellington rd 4 (went 2 picks after Saunders) or packaged some picks to get their WR.

I also love the Amaro pick, but he's not a WR.  Now we have Harvin, WR need is less than at the time those decisions were made last April.

It would have been nice to have a WR in the bush with those 4th and 5th rd picks playing on other teams today to help as a deep threat or in other useful receiving areas, IMO.

That is correct. I clearly was. But I guess it's easier to ignore that and argue with a strawman.

Obviously, we needed to draft a SS as a backup plan in case things went south with our CB situation. That was a much better use of our first round pick, and it's worked out so well. Have to give credit where credit is due on that one.

Idzik obviously knew he was going to be able to grab Harvin 7 games into the season. So why waste a high pick on a WR? Besides, other than the fact he looked slow, rounded off his cuts, and dropped as many passes as he caught, Evans looked great in training camp (before he went on IR) for someone who missed all of OTAs due the the UCLA quarter system. (You can't seriously blame Idzik for not knowing about that!)

Rex is the designated fall guy. I just have to get with the program.

Good post.

First it was replace geno and we'll be a 12 win team. Now it is fire Rex and we'll be a 12 win team.

When that doesn't work, who will they point to next? I know one guy who is bullet proof, so it could never be him...

Blindsidebrick wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:All those receivers mentioned have QB's throwing to them. The Jets benched their starting QB, and are struggling with their backup. Having a stable QB situation helps any WR.

And let's not act like Idzik ignored the receiver position, especially if you consider TE a receiver. Decker, Amaro, and Percy Harvin (when the situation arose).  Throw in Kerley. Is WR an area of need? The arguments about misjudging the CB position have some merit. Trying to take this argument to WR, less so.

Enumwa and Evans are still unknowns. Both or either could be factors next season. Assuming we have a good QB throwing to them.

Except a TE is not a WR. It is a TE.

When we went into the draft, we had Decker, Kerley, and a bunch of JAGs. Now we have Decker, Kerley, Harvin and a bunch of JAGs. Who is our #4? Who is our deep threat? We have no depth at the position, and we don't have a true HR hitter aside from Harvin, who you can't include in a conversation about the 2014 draft. We'll hve to agree to disagree. This is an area where supply and demand met, and we waited till the 4th round to address the position, and then cut the first guy we did draft. There's simply no way to spin that as a job well done, sorry.

When you watch Jace Amaro play, do you see a mauling run blocker opening up huge holes for Ivory, or do you see a player overwhelmingly being a factor as a receiver?

Call it whatever you want. He's catching the ball. Otherwise known as "receiving" the ball.

Well then, as a wide receiver, Amaro is slow, not a very crisp route runner, and has shown bad hands on occasion. His utility is in the short-medium range passing game only, as he can't get separation and lacks anything resembling a 2nd gear to get deep. He doesn't seem to break a lot of tackles, so combined with his lack of speed, YAC potential is limited. He does show signs of being able to use his size to shield receivers and his length to bring in passes over his head. So while he is limited, he has some strengths to draw upon.

Now, as a TE, he's got the potential to be a very good pass catcher. I like the pick in that context, but pawning him off as a WR is pure spin and a fail. If he were truly a WR, he would probably have gone undrafted.

Superman55 wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:All those receivers mentioned have QB's throwing to them. The Jets benched their starting QB, and are struggling with their backup. Having a stable QB situation helps any WR.

And let's not act like Idzik ignored the receiver position, especially if you consider TE a receiver. Decker, Amaro, and Percy Harvin (when the situation arose).  Throw in Kerley. Is WR an area of need? The arguments about misjudging the CB position have some merit. Trying to take this argument to WR, less so.

Enumwa and Evans are still unknowns. Both or either could be factors next season. Assuming we have a good QB throwing to them.

Except a TE is not a WR. It is a TE.

When we went into the draft, we had Decker, Kerley, and a bunch of JAGs. Now we have Decker, Kerley, Harvin and a bunch of JAGs. Who is our #4? Who is our deep threat? We have no depth at the position, and we don't have a true HR hitter aside from Harvin, who you can't include in a conversation about the 2014 draft. We'll hve to agree to disagree. This is an area where supply and demand met, and we waited till the 4th round to address the position, and then cut the first guy we did draft. There's simply no way to spin that as a job well done, sorry.

The team is 1-8, and you are complaining about whether there is a hole with the #4 WR? Seriously? (Most teams don't have great #4s, so Salas isn't exactly a huge hole there.)

Harvin is the deep threat. The Jets did not use a 2014 draft pick to fill that hole, they used a 2015 pick to do so.

Maybe he could have taken someone else in the draft. There were a few guys I wanted over the guys he drafted. But that doesn't make me right. Only time will tell.

Now that we have Harvin, agreed. I thought he meant at the time of the draft in April 2014.

Having already cut our 4th and 5th rd draft picks...kind of makes me wish we packaged some picks and moved up or down in the draft...or drafted Ellington rd 4 (went 2 picks after Saunders) or packaged some picks to get their WR.

I also love the Amaro pick, but he's not a WR.  Now we have Harvin, WR need is less than at the time those decisions were made last April.

It would have been nice to have a WR in the bush with those 4th and 5th rd picks playing on other teams today to help as a deep threat or in other useful receiving areas, IMO.

That is correct. I clearly was. But I guess it's easier to ignore that and argue with a strawman.

Obviously, we needed to draft a SS as a backup plan in case things went south with our CB situation. That was a much better use of our first round pick, and it's worked out so well. Have to give credit where credit is due on that one.

Idzik obviously knew he was going to be able to grab Harvin 7 games into the season. So why waste a high pick on a WR? Besides, other than the fact he looked slow, rounded off his cuts, and dropped as many passes as he caught, Evans looked great in training camp (before he went on IR) for someone who missed all of OTAs due the the UCLA quarter system. (You can't seriously blame Idzik for not knowing about that!)

Rex is the designated fall guy. I just have to get with the program.

Good post.

First it was replace geno and we'll be a 12 win team.  Now it is fire Rex and we'll be a 12 win team.  

When that doesn't work, who will they point to next?  I know one guy who is bullet proof, so it could never be him...

Now, don't get me wrong. Rex needs to get the axe. He has not produced a tight, fundamentally sound, football team in 6 years. He hasn't developed any offensive players, and his defense is massively overrated. I love the guy as a person, would love to have a beer with him, but his program is a hot mess and gaining momentum in the wrong direction. He needs to go.

I just am not sure that a new head coach solves the player personnel issue. It is pretty hard to argue that the 2014 draft and free agency class was anything other than an unmitigated disaster. When you add in the lack of contributions from the 2013 class outside of Sheldon, it is hard not to start questioning the talent acquisition function. I'm not contributing to the Fire Idzik campaign, but I understand how they feel and think it is perfectly legit to ask these questions. I'm open to a defense of his plan, but frankly, haven't seen anything persuasive yet.

I don't know where this notion came from that we'd be a 12 win team without Geno/Rex. Since I've yet to see anyone post such a thing, I'll chalk that up to fantasy. It's my opinion, and the opinion of others, that our coaching staff blew 3-4 winnable games this year. i don't believe we're a 1 win team on paper. No one is excusing the mistakes(or perceived mistakes........ some draft picks have yet to play. I'm not willing to write them off yet) of the gm. However, I've seen the same mistakes from the HC with 2 different gms, different personnel(our 2 lockdown cb's helped us to an 8-8 year in 2011 including getting embarrassed by Tebow), different oc's, etc. Too many are willing to make Idzik the sacrificial lamb when he's been here for 1.5 years and unable to hire his own coach, and give a pass to the HC who keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. Like I said, I believe everyone is going to get fired. Let's hope we hire the perfect replacements, get a high enough pick, AND the qb we take is legit, or we'll see more banners flying over Florham Park.

football51 wrote:I don't know where this notion came from that we'd be a 12 win team without Geno/Rex. Since I've yet to see anyone post such a thing, I'll chalk that up to fantasy. It's my opinion, and the opinion of others, that our coaching staff blew 3-4 winnable games this year. i don't believe we're a 1 win team on paper. No one is excusing the mistakes(or perceived mistakes........ some draft picks have yet to play. I'm not willing to write them off yet) of the gm. However, I've seen the same mistakes from the HC with 2 different gms, different personnel(our 2 lockdown cb's helped us to an 8-8 year in 2011 including getting embarrassed by Tebow), different oc's, etc. Too many are willing to make Idzik the sacrificial lamb when he's been here for 1.5 years and unable to hire his own coach, and give a pass to the HC who keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. Like I said, I believe everyone is going to get fired. Let's hope we hire the perfect replacements, get a high enough pick, AND the qb we take is legit, or we'll see more banners flying over Florham Park.

I agree with every bit of this

51, I favor firing everyone. No one gets a pass. Planes flying overhead with banners, silly billboards, the media blasting this team on a daily basis, a 1-8 record on the field - The Jets organization and their fans have become a major embarrassment. It is approaching the absurd. The only way to restore order is to re-order the entire franchise, start over and start at the top.

Right or wrong that is the state of the franchise. The absurdity from the fans needs to stop, the mismanagement of the team needs to stop, the poor record needs to stop. Get executives, coaches and players in here with credibility that will turn this franchise around. I don't think there isn't a single Jet fan out there that isn't tired of all of it. The only way to get this right is to make dramatic changes across the board. New GM, new Coaching Staff, new QB, new Personnel department, you name it. If you are going to rebuild, then rebuild. Don't do it half-assed. Do it right.

football51 wrote:I don't know where this notion came from that we'd be a 12 win team without Geno/Rex. Since I've yet to see anyone post such a thing, I'll chalk that up to fantasy. It's my opinion, and the opinion of others, that our coaching staff blew 3-4 winnable games this year. i don't believe we're a 1 win team on paper. No one is excusing the mistakes(or perceived mistakes........ some draft picks have yet to play. I'm not willing to write them off yet) of the gm. However, I've seen the same mistakes from the HC with 2 different gms, different personnel(our 2 lockdown cb's helped us to an 8-8 year in 2011 including getting embarrassed by Tebow), different oc's, etc. Too many are willing to make Idzik the sacrificial lamb when he's been here for 1.5 years and unable to hire his own coach, and give a pass to the HC who keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. Like I said, I believe everyone is going to get fired. Let's hope we hire the perfect replacements, get a high enough pick, AND the qb we take is legit, or we'll see more banners flying over Florham Park.

...on the back of Nick's Jet!

Rich Cimini @RichCimini · 35m 35 minutes ago
Cost of flying plane/banner over Jets practice less than $1000, per owner of adv co. Purchased by "a frustrated fan" -- a woman, per owner.



I was wondering what happened to ArethaFranklin from Scout





Dennis Waszak Jr. @DWAZ73 · 41m 41 minutes ago
Owner of aerial advertising agency that supplied banner piloted plane that flew over #Jets facility. "I kind of felt bad for the team."







Dennis Waszak Jr. retweeted
J.P. Pelzman @JPPelzman · 1h 1 hour ago
Ashley Chalmers, owner of company that flew Fire Idzik banner says, 'You might see it again on gameday.' #nyj

football51 wrote:Rich Cimini @RichCimini  ·  35m 35 minutes ago
Cost of flying plane/banner over Jets practice less than $1000, per owner of adv co. Purchased by "a frustrated fan" -- a woman, per owner.

MetJetGal has been pretty ticked off lately too... just sayin'

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:All those receivers mentioned have QB's throwing to them. The Jets benched their starting QB, and are struggling with their backup. Having a stable QB situation helps any WR.

And let's not act like Idzik ignored the receiver position, especially if you consider TE a receiver. Decker, Amaro, and Percy Harvin (when the situation arose).  Throw in Kerley. Is WR an area of need? The arguments about misjudging the CB position have some merit. Trying to take this argument to WR, less so.

Enumwa and Evans are still unknowns. Both or either could be factors next season. Assuming we have a good QB throwing to them.

Except a TE is not a WR. It is a TE.

When we went into the draft, we had Decker, Kerley, and a bunch of JAGs. Now we have Decker, Kerley, Harvin and a bunch of JAGs. Who is our #4? Who is our deep threat? We have no depth at the position, and we don't have a true HR hitter aside from Harvin, who you can't include in a conversation about the 2014 draft. We'll hve to agree to disagree. This is an area where supply and demand met, and we waited till the 4th round to address the position, and then cut the first guy we did draft. There's simply no way to spin that as a job well done, sorry.

When you watch Jace Amaro play, do you see a mauling run blocker opening up huge holes for Ivory, or do you see a player overwhelmingly being a factor as a receiver?

Call it whatever you want. He's catching the ball. Otherwise known as "receiving" the ball.

Well then, as a wide receiver, Amaro is slow, not a very crisp route runner, and has shown bad hands on occasion. His utility is in the short-medium range passing game only, as he can't get separation and lacks anything resembling a 2nd gear to get deep. He doesn't seem to break a lot of tackles, so combined with his lack of speed, YAC potential is limited. He does show signs of being able to use his size to shield receivers and his length to bring in passes over his head. So while he is limited, he has some strengths to draw upon.

Now, as a TE, he's got the potential to be a very good pass catcher. I like the pick in that context,  but pawning him off as a WR is pure spin and a fail. If he were truly a WR, he would probably have gone undrafted.

Wow. Talk about a harsh assessment. It doesn't surprise me, though. Reading the comments of some fans in their criticism of a GM who's been here a year and a half, and reading about airplanes flying over Jets practice calling for Idzik's firing tell me all I need to know about
this ridiculous fan base.

Amaro, with the exception of two bad drops, has shown excellent ability getting open, decent route running for a first year player, and an ability to pick up extra yards for a big guy. I'm watching a team with a crappy starting QB get benched, a backup who ignores Amaro for some bizarre reason, and despite it all, Amaro still looks good when given the opportunity.

It seems like some people are over-analyzing every aspect of this team in an effort to prove they're "right" about John Idzik.

Very disheartening.






http://espn.go.com/newyork/nfl/story/_/id/11826572/plane-fire-john-idzik-sign-flies-new-york-jets-hq

Interesting scenarios. I just can't see any way that Ryan is back..... even less bringing him back and firing Idzik. I hope Woody does take a stand and keep Idzik. I also don't see how Bradway/Bauer could be fired prior to the draft.






http://turnonthejets.com/2014/11/toj-roundtable-new-york-jets-stay-go-edition/

Blindsidebrick wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:All those receivers mentioned have QB's throwing to them. The Jets benched their starting QB, and are struggling with their backup. Having a stable QB situation helps any WR.

And let's not act like Idzik ignored the receiver position, especially if you consider TE a receiver. Decker, Amaro, and Percy Harvin (when the situation arose).  Throw in Kerley. Is WR an area of need? The arguments about misjudging the CB position have some merit. Trying to take this argument to WR, less so.

Enumwa and Evans are still unknowns. Both or either could be factors next season. Assuming we have a good QB throwing to them.

Except a TE is not a WR. It is a TE.

When we went into the draft, we had Decker, Kerley, and a bunch of JAGs. Now we have Decker, Kerley, Harvin and a bunch of JAGs. Who is our #4? Who is our deep threat? We have no depth at the position, and we don't have a true HR hitter aside from Harvin, who you can't include in a conversation about the 2014 draft. We'll hve to agree to disagree. This is an area where supply and demand met, and we waited till the 4th round to address the position, and then cut the first guy we did draft. There's simply no way to spin that as a job well done, sorry.

When you watch Jace Amaro play, do you see a mauling run blocker opening up huge holes for Ivory, or do you see a player overwhelmingly being a factor as a receiver?

Call it whatever you want. He's catching the ball. Otherwise known as "receiving" the ball.

Well then, as a wide receiver, Amaro is slow, not a very crisp route runner, and has shown bad hands on occasion. His utility is in the short-medium range passing game only, as he can't get separation and lacks anything resembling a 2nd gear to get deep. He doesn't seem to break a lot of tackles, so combined with his lack of speed, YAC potential is limited. He does show signs of being able to use his size to shield receivers and his length to bring in passes over his head. So while he is limited, he has some strengths to draw upon.

Now, as a TE, he's got the potential to be a very good pass catcher. I like the pick in that context,  but pawning him off as a WR is pure spin and a fail. If he were truly a WR, he would probably have gone undrafted.

Wow. Talk about a harsh assessment. It doesn't surprise me, though. Reading the comments of some fans in their criticism of a GM who's been here a year and a half, and reading about airplanes flying over Jets practice calling for Idzik's firing tell me all I need to know about
this ridiculous fan base.

It seems like some people are over-analyzing every aspect of this team in an effort to prove they're "right" about John Idzik.

Your relentless effort to lump anyone who doesn't see things your way with the "ridiculous fan base" is pathetic and childish. Know any other grade school debate tricks, or is this all you got? I think I'm entitled to my opinion, and unless you own this joint, I have the same right to post it you do. Either you're too intellectually challenged to recognize there might be some space between "supports Idzik" and "flies banner demanding Idzik be fired", or you get it but you're just too disingenuous to admit it, but either way, since there's no room for nuance in your "poor little Jet fan" world, just ignore me from now on and I'll return the favor.

For the record, I have great sympathy for John Idzik. I thought the process through which they hired him was professional, and his credentials/recommendations made him a perfect candidate. He extracted maximum value for Revis when that trade had to be made. When he had his first draft, it was a bit of a shock seeing two defensive players taken in the 1st round, but we clearly did well with Sheldon and Milliner remains an INC until he can have a full season or two on the field. Geno seemed like a good pick at the time, and I defended him tirelessly on the Scout board against the likes of B'wayJoe. Winters was a pick that has ended up a dud, but the experts seemed to think it was alright, even if I'd never heard of him and thought he might have been a bit of a reach. Trading the 4th for Ivory was a great play, so I stand corrected when I said all Idzik had to show for the 2013 draft was Richardson.

The way he ran the '14 draft baffled me. At the time, all I could think was, "man, this guy must have some crazy good proprietary scouting because he passed up on the top 15 WRs in a strong WR draft". I thought we'd at least end up with Paul Richardson, Davante Adams (who was my personal sleeper), or Martavis Bryant, who I didn't like as much but all he does is catch TDs. There were so many interesting guys, so when they sat there with all those picks and took Saunders, it was pretty underwhelming, to say the least. Evans and Enunwa I tried to get behind, but they just seemed like incomplete players.

I felt really bad for John at the press conference. It was clear as day the guy is completely devastated by the way things have turned out. I hope he is getting support from the team and family with this ridiculous billboard/flying sign campaign. How painful that must be. If I had been in the "fire Idzik" camp before, this would have been enough to move me to the "keep Idzik" camp. I've never booed or yelled at a player or coach at any sports event, ever. I've had to fire more people than I care to think about in my career. It is the worst task I've ever had to perform. I hate it. It sucks. And I've been fired, more times than I care to admit. I hate that even more. That really sucks.

My thinking is that there is no upside to firing Idzik now. It will create massive turmoil, and he can't be replaced in a proper manner mid-season. He has the rest of the season to show what kind of stuff he's made of. If he can get through this, he will be tougher, stronger and better equipped to deal with the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune that come with the job, not to mention the press and his fellow GMs. He has my support for the rest of the year. He can still play his way out of this into a nice career with the Jets.

HOWEVER, that support is not blind. I think it is not only fair but necessary to analyze what he's done and how it could have been done better. Analysis is how I make my living--it's the core of who I am. No one gets a blank check, especially when the team goes 1-8. Critiquing the way he's done his job != calling for his head. I've never called for his head, although he's on thin ice now. It's the only way I know how to support him--by pointing out his mistakes, so that he can learn from them, and get better at his job.

GratefulJet wrote:For the record, I have great sympathy for John Idzik. I thought the process through which they hired him was professional, and his credentials/recommendations made him a perfect candidate. He extracted maximum value for Revis when that trade had to be made. When he had his first draft, it was a bit of a shock seeing two defensive players taken in the 1st round, but we clearly did well with Sheldon and Milliner remains an INC until he can have a full season or two on the field. Geno seemed like a good pick at the time, and I defended him tirelessly on the Scout board against the likes of B'wayJoe. Winters was a pick that has ended up a dud, but the experts seemed to think it was alright, even if I'd never heard of him and thought he might have been a bit of a reach. Trading the 4th for Ivory was a great play, so I stand corrected when I said all Idzik had to show for the 2013 draft was Richardson.

The way he ran the '14 draft baffled me. At the time, all I could think was, "man, this guy must have some crazy good proprietary scouting because he passed up on the top 15 WRs in a strong WR draft". I thought we'd at least end up with Paul Richardson, Davante Adams (who was my personal sleeper), or Martavis Bryant, who I didn't like as much but all he does is catch TDs. There were so many interesting guys, so when they sat there with all those picks and took Saunders, it was pretty underwhelming, to say the least. Evans and Enunwa I tried to get behind, but they just seemed like incomplete players.

I felt really bad for John at the press conference. It was clear as day the guy is completely devastated by the way things have turned out. I hope he is getting support from the team and family with this ridiculous billboard/flying sign campaign. How painful that must be. If I had been in the "fire Idzik" camp before, this would have been enough to move me to the "keep Idzik" camp. I've never booed or yelled at a player or coach at any sports event, ever. I've had to fire more people than I care to think about in my career. It is the worst task I've ever had to perform. I hate it. It sucks. And I've been fired, more times than I care to admit. I hate that even more. That really sucks.

My thinking is that there is no upside to firing Idzik now. It will create massive turmoil, and he can't be replaced in a proper manner mid-season. He has the rest of the season to show what kind of stuff he's made of. If he can get through this, he will be tougher, stronger and better equipped to deal with the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune that come with the job, not to mention the press and his fellow GMs. He has my support for the rest of the year. He can still play his way out of this into a nice career with the Jets.

HOWEVER, that support is not blind. I think it is not only fair but necessary to analyze what he's done and how it could have been done better. Analysis is how I make my living--it's the core of who I am. No one gets a blank check, especially when the team goes 1-8. Critiquing the way he's done his job != calling for his head. I've never called for his head, although he's on thin ice now. It's the only way I know how to support him--by pointing out his mistakes, so that he can learn from them, and get better at his job.

All of this is fair. It is completely reasonable, as I have argued many of YOUR criticisms have been. It is the extremist wing of the fan base, the people not found on this board, who drive me crazy. You may not be calling for his head with your criticisms, but there are plenty who are. The evidence can be found on billboards and behind small planes.

Here is a question, though. If you are giving Idzik until the end of this season, what exactly can he do at this point? The trading deadline has passed. Is it about wins and losses? Is it about the guys he brings in? What about extending guys like Mo? He can do some things to change opinion of him, but his role is limited this late in the season. It just seems like a coach can do more in this regard than a GM can.

If he does appear as bothered by what has happened as it would suggest, then perhaps he will be more motivated to be aggressive in making the team a winner. If he sticks to the plan of building through the draft but keeps striking out with his picks, then obviously he has to go. I am only hoping that these drafts prove to be more fruitful long-term than they have been short-term, and that he steps up in addressing major holes on the roster.

I don't know what precisely I expect him to do. It's more about how he handles himself through this crisis. Does he keep his wits about him, or does start muttering to himself? Does he stand ramrod straight, or does he curl up in a ball on the floor? I don't have any particular expectations, except that he show he can handle this and worse. It's a character test now. Evaluating his personnel skills is another matter. I do have my doubts there, but if I'm Woody, I am asking for an accounting of his thought process throughout the '14 draft. I need to know why each of those players were the best on the board. Amaro was a obvious pick--consensus value. The rest were puzzling. McDougle was supposedly value but I want to know where he got his info that the Raiders were going to take him.

More than anything, Idzik would have to sell me on his plan going forward. The PC didn't do the job. I would need to know the details, what he regrets and what he's glad he did.

He needs some young players to start developing and show promise again the last few weeks.

I am hoping we see some growth after the bye week from Pryor and Amaro. Just like last season when we saw Milliner, Geno, and Richardson just look absolutely awesome in December. I am hoping for 6-7 solid weeks and improvement from this draft class to give us hope heading into the next coaching regime.

I think idzik needs to show we didn't draft 12 players that are completely over their heads. The fact he cut our 4th and 5th rd picks shows they didn't cut the bill. Hopefully Pryor and Amaro continue to shine.

GratefulJet wrote:I don't know what precisely I expect him to do. It's more about how he handles himself through this crisis. Does he keep his wits about him, or does start muttering to himself? Does he stand ramrod straight, or does he curl up in a ball on the floor? I don't have any particular expectations, except that he show he can handle this and worse. It's a character test now. Evaluating his personnel skills is another matter. I do have my doubts there, but if I'm Woody, I am asking for an accounting of his thought process throughout the '14 draft. I need to know why each of those players were the best on the board. Amaro was a obvious pick--consensus value. The rest were puzzling. McDougle was supposedly value but I want to know where he got his info that the Raiders were going to take him.

More than anything, Idzik would have to sell me on his plan going forward. The PC didn't do the job. I would need to know  the details, what he regrets and what he's glad he did.

I can totally buy this. How he reacts to this latest dissent among the fans will be an important test.

The question is, does he need to convince you, or would it be enough if he convinced Woody? I mean, is it really important that we as fans give our stamp of approval of his plan? Is it necessary? Should we expect the right to know his plan? Or would it perhaps be preferable if his long-term plan was NOT public?

Just a couple thoughts.

Superman55 wrote:He needs some young players to start developing and show promise again the last few weeks.

I am hoping we see some growth after the bye week from Pryor and Amaro.  Just like last season when we saw Milliner, Geno, and Richardson just look absolutely awesome in December.  I am hoping for 6-7 solid weeks and improvement from this draft class to give us hope heading into the next coaching regime.

I think idzik needs to show we didn't draft 12 players that are completely over their heads.  The fact he cut our 4th and 5th rd picks shows they didn't cut the bill.  Hopefully Pryor and Amaro continue to shine.

I can see this. McDougle, can't predict an ACL, even with an injury-prone guy. But he does have to own up to Saunders, guys like that. And the early picks have to show that they were worth it. So far, Amaro has. Pryor? Not so much.

Grateful Jet, nice post. I certainly agree that firing anyone is not something to be taken lightly at all. And I certainly don't want to minimize the imnpact that has on anyone. Most of us have been there at some point in our lives. So well said.

Idzik has skills and would certainly not be out of a job for very long. A team would hire him. I am sure he could be well suited for many roles, but he just may not be a good GM. And that ok. Not everyone is cut out to be the top executive in an organization. Same applies to Rex and everyone in the organization. They may be working hard, I won't dispute that. I'm sure they are. But working hard is not enough. The results have to be there. And there is no way to spin the results for this team in a positive way. This is a bad football team. The record speaks for itself.

I am not in favor at all of the absurdity some of the fans are showing with planes and billboards. But it cannot be ignored either. It means that the level of frustration and disapproval has reached such a low point that some in the fan base are driven to the extreme. And the media continues to throw gasoline on that fire. Woody could come out publicly and support Idzik But I think that will just fall on deaf ears at this point. I think the only message Woody can deliver at this point is that he is going to do whatever it takes to build a winning franchise that the fans can be proud of. And he is going to start by finding a staff that can do that. And then hire a staff with enough credibility that the fans and the media can believe it. That's the hard truth. That's where this team is now.

LIJETFAN wrote:Grateful Jet, nice post.  I certainly agree that firing anyone is not something to be taken lightly at all.  And I certainly don't want to minimize the imnpact that has on anyone.  Most of us have been there at some point in our lives.  So well said.  

Idzik has skills and would certainly not be out of a job for very long.  A team would hire him.  I am sure he could be well suited for many roles, but he just may not be a good GM.  And that ok.  Not everyone is cut out to be the top executive in an organization.   Same applies to Rex and everyone in the organization.  They may be working hard, I won't dispute that.  I'm sure they are.  But working hard is not enough.  The results have to be there.  And there is no way to spin the results for this team in a positive way.  This is a bad football team.  The record speaks for itself.  

I am not in favor at all of the absurdity some  of the fans are showing with planes and billboards.   But it cannot be ignored either.  It means that the  level of frustration and disapproval has reached such a low point that some in the fan base are driven to the extreme.  And the media continues to throw gasoline on that fire.  Woody could come out publicly and support Idzik  But I think that will just fall on deaf ears at this point.  I think the only message Woody can deliver at this point is that he is going to do whatever it takes to build a winning franchise that the fans can be proud of.  And he is going to start by finding a staff that can do that.  And then hire a staff with enough credibility that the fans and the media can believe it.  That's the hard truth.  That's where this team is now.  

I can understand the disillusion of the fans. But I do think that there is both a silliness and a meanness to the signs and planes. Plus, it doesn't shine our fan base in a particularly good light for future coaches, front office guys, even players. Maybe a guy who would come here will now be a bit more hesitant because of these antics.

How much of the disillusion of the fans really falls on Idzik, though? He's only been here a year and a half. He inherited a head coach - how many GMs have to deal with that? He has had only one draft class that has even had a full season yet. At worst, his grade would be an Incomplete.

The organization was on the decline before Idzik arrived. If it wasn't, Tanny's job would not have been available. Is it fair that the guy who has been here for less than two years is taking almost all the hit (from many) for what amounts to four years of decline and failure? The AFC title teams were ancient history by the time Idzik got here, They had gone two seasons without making the playoffs before Idzik even arrived in Florham Park, including the OC instability, Tebow, and the Miami fiasco.

To me, the anger at Idzik is in part merited, as his drafts are incomplete but worthy of criticism, and he has left too many holes on the team by not being aggressive enough. But the anger is also partially misguided, as Rex is immune from most of it because he's a likeable guy, and Jets fans are upset over the state of the team from the two years before Idzik even got here.

Idzik may not be the answer. But I argue that not you, me, nor anyone else knows absolutely for sure yet whether he is or not. We may think we do, but it's all a guess right now.

Would any future GM want to come in here, knowing the Jets are less inclined than other teams to let a GM build a foundation? Or, perhaps worse, would any future GM feel such a need to win now to keep his job that he trades draft picks and young players for veterans, running up an aging high cap team to ensure 9 or 10 wins now, while mortgaging the future? I think firing Idzik sends that message to potential Idzik replacements. And the airplanes and billboards send the message that the fans have little patience, as well.

SackExchange wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:Grateful Jet, nice post.  I certainly agree that firing anyone is not something to be taken lightly at all.  And I certainly don't want to minimize the imnpact that has on anyone.  Most of us have been there at some point in our lives.  So well said.  

Idzik has skills and would certainly not be out of a job for very long.  A team would hire him.  I am sure he could be well suited for many roles, but he just may not be a good GM.  And that ok.  Not everyone is cut out to be the top executive in an organization.   Same applies to Rex and everyone in the organization.  They may be working hard, I won't dispute that.  I'm sure they are.  But working hard is not enough.  The results have to be there.  And there is no way to spin the results for this team in a positive way.  This is a bad football team.  The record speaks for itself.  

I am not in favor at all of the absurdity some  of the fans are showing with planes and billboards.   But it cannot be ignored either.  It means that the  level of frustration and disapproval has reached such a low point that some in the fan base are driven to the extreme.  And the media continues to throw gasoline on that fire.  Woody could come out publicly and support Idzik  But I think that will just fall on deaf ears at this point.  I think the only message Woody can deliver at this point is that he is going to do whatever it takes to build a winning franchise that the fans can be proud of.  And he is going to start by finding a staff that can do that.  And then hire a staff with enough credibility that the fans and the media can believe it.  That's the hard truth.  That's where this team is now.  

I can understand the disillusion of the fans. But I do think that there is both a silliness and a meanness to the signs and planes. Plus, it doesn't shine our fan base in a particularly good light for future coaches, front office guys, even players. Maybe a guy who would come here will now be a bit more hesitant because of these antics.

How much of the disillusion of the fans really falls on Idzik, though? He's only been here a year and a half. He inherited a head coach - how many GMs have to deal with that? He has had only one draft class that has even had a full season yet. At worst, his grade would be an Incomplete.

The organization was on the decline before Idzik arrived. If it wasn't, Tanny's job would not have been available. Is it fair that the guy who has been here for less than two years is taking almost all the hit (from many) for what amounts to four years of decline and failure? The AFC title teams were ancient history by the time Idzik got here, They had gone two seasons without making the playoffs before Idzik even arrived in Florham Park, including the OC instability, Tebow, and the Miami fiasco.

To me, the anger at Idzik is in part merited, as his drafts are incomplete but worthy of criticism, and he has left too many holes on the team by not being aggressive enough. But the anger is also partially misguided, as Rex is immune from most of it because he's a likeable guy, and Jets fans are upset over the state of the team from the two years before Idzik even got here.

Idzik may not be the answer. But I argue that not you, me, nor anyone else knows absolutely for sure yet whether he is or not. We may think we do, but it's all a guess right now.

Would any future GM want to come in here, knowing the Jets are less inclined than other teams to let a GM build a foundation? Or, perhaps worse, would any future GM feel such a need to win now to keep his job that he trades draft picks and young players for veterans, running up an aging high cap team to ensure 9 or 10 wins now, while mortgaging the future? I think firing Idzik sends that message to potential Idzik replacements. And the airplanes and billboards send the message that the fans have little patience, as well.

No way in hell. We'd look like the Raiders. He likely gets two more years unless next year is really a stinker. He'll get his own HC. I also think there's a good chance Rex is a successful HC down the line some place else.