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    Idzik's state of the team

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    football51
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by football51 on Thu 30 Oct 2014 - 17:40

    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 38m 38 minutes ago
    Donating your money to a billboard that will never get put up, or if it does will do nothing? Donate here instead: http://www.charitynavigator.org

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by soj on Thu 30 Oct 2014 - 18:31

    NickSINYC wrote:
    JohnnyBaseball wrote:Nothing in particular except that he's had some success here in the past, and I like the organization to have continuity. I wouldn't think it was wrong if he was fired. I would certainly understand it. But I don't think we HAVE to fire anyone based on our record. I just want to assess the strengths and weaknesses of our personnel and decide whether we think they give us the best chance to win going to forward, and that's what I want the determination to be made on. I don't want to punish people for losing, if doing that means we are losing talented people who could help us win. And I want the assessment to at least include a discussion of what were the appropriate expectations for these players, and not just say "we didn't win X number of games, so that's not good enough, and therefore, we must make a move."

    It's not really possible to judge a GM based on two offseasons, I don't think, and it isn't really possible to judge a coach until he has players who can actually execute his game plans. I dunno, I just hate seeing people get fired because every time we make a move for a new coach or GM, it restarts this "wait and see, give 'em a chance" argument. But the way we have been doing it hasn't worked at all or produced any meaningful success for, what, over 40 years now? So maybe we should take a different approach? At least if a coach/GM are around for 6 or 7 or more years, there can be no doubt that the team on the field represents what that coach and that GM intended to put on the field, and there would be no more argument over who gets credit or blame for various players.

    It's a tough call. If we can improve our chances to win by making moves, then I am all for it. But I'm just not sure that we'd actually be doing that by making a move. When some more specific names start to emerge, it will be easier to make that determination.
    1) team is always poorly prepared
    2) team is always minus in turnover dept
    3) always out coached at halftime with adjustments
    4) as much as players love him he never seems to have a handle of what is actually going on in his locker room
    5) poor clock management
    6) team always takes stupid penalties

    All these problems have lasted over 6 years through multiple GMs, Coordinators, Coaches and vastly different groups of players. The one constant is Rex.

     He is not a good HC. He is a good DC. Forget 1-7 Rex should not even be here this year to have gone 1-7


    Fair analysis but how do you explain that we have been in each game this year except for SD and 2nd half of Bills game and that is with the 2nd worse statistical QB in the league? Please I'd like everyone that posts to think about that and answer it...

    Look is this team a F mess, yes... have the coaches underperformed, yes, have the players under performed, yes, has the FO underperformed yes.... now think about that and all of our expectations after 8-8? Are we seeing what we should have seen last year? I think so... the problem is its happening this year not last year so the media, fans (me included) want blood....

    BTW - didn't our GM clean house with the scouting department except for bradway?

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    football51
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by football51 on Thu 30 Oct 2014 - 18:41

    SOJ, Jeff Bauer is also still here. He's our director of college scouting and was brought into the organization by Bradway.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by JohnnyBaseball on Thu 30 Oct 2014 - 18:50

    NickSINYC wrote:
    How many players from the 2009 team are playing this year? I believe its 4 but I may be mistaken

    5 years is like a lifetime in the NFL, but point taken. Like I said, I wouldn't be against firing Rex, and I would understand it if it happens. I've kinda always thought that we haven't really been that good personnel wise at all since he's been here, and the only thing keeping us in games is the fact that the defense has been very solid during his time here, which I mostly attributed to him, since the same players were not a top defense before he got here. Maybe it was the Revis effect. But I guess I am worried about the defense getting worse, and the offense just staying bad, because we don't have the QB we need to be a good offense.

    It's just this cycle of bringing in coaches and firing coaches, and implementing new systems, and it doesn't work. Or it hasn't worked, anyway. We need better players, especially at the QB position. That's the big thing, IMO, and clock management and game management become a lot easier when you have a QB who knows what he's doing. We need continuity in this organization. We need guys who stay with the team long enough to learn and teach younger players. We need everyone to understand their roles. We need everyone to be on the same page. It's so hard to have that when you keep changing horses and systems. This is basically the same team that everyone thought was going to go 1-15 last year, and he led them to 8-8.

    It's not really worth arguing on my part, though, because it's obviously hard to defend a 1-7 record. There's no one who would say it was unfair to fire him after that. It's just, how many times have we seen this whole cycle play out? Does it ever get us where we want to be?

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by LIJETFAN on Thu 30 Oct 2014 - 19:00

    Nick - Rex is a constant, and yes he certainly deserves his share of the blame.  But he also deserves some of the credit for coaching the team to back to back AFC Championship games.  That 2009 defense wasn't just good, it was dominant at times.  He had the #1 Defense and #1 Rushing offense.  He's done some things right during his time here.  I just don't want that to get lost in midst of all this frustration we all feel.

    As for Woody - I don't think he is a bad owner.  I think he wants to put a great team out there.  He just needs a better supporting cast.  Idzik did say that the Jets want for nothing, and I'm sure that's true.

    Johnny Baseball - to your point about changing systems etc.  On defense, the Jets have been in the same system now for a long time.  I would like to see them stick with a 3-4, but that's my opinion.  Seattle plays a 4-3 and they play it extremely well.  So you can win with both on defense.  On offense, we are starting over with a new QB.  So it doesn't really matter what the system is at that point.  The WRs can adjust pretty quickly.  The O-Line will take time to learn the system, but that can be coached up too.  The biggest decision is the QB.  If we use a WC type of system with our next head coach, the transition won't be that big of a deal.  But I think the biggest key is to have a system that works best for your QB.  And since our franchise QB isn't on the roster, at this point that's not a big deal.

    Fundamentally, I agree with your premise that continuity is important.  But at 1-7 throw everything out the window and go back to the drawing board and start from scratch with the next coaching staff.  It all needs to be turned over.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by football51 on Thu 30 Oct 2014 - 19:51

    For some reason, ignorant members of our fan base have forced Jessie James Decker to shut down her twitter account.



    Kimberley A. Martin @KMart_LI · 2h 2 hours ago
    I see others were wondering the same thing I was: it appears Jessie James Decker deactivated her Twitter account ...(Hope it's temporary)





    Brian Costello @BrianCoz · 3h 3 hours ago
    I told Eric Decker I was surprised at the twitter hate because I only ever get love from Jets fans on twitter.






    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 2h 2 hours ago
    #Jets fans: Getting player's lovely wives to deactivate their Twitter account and wasting their money on dumb billboard campaigns




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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by NickSINYC on Thu 30 Oct 2014 - 20:09

    football51 wrote:For some reason, ignorant members of our fan base have forced Jessie James Decker to shut down her twitter account.



    Kimberley A. Martin @KMart_LI  ·  2h 2 hours ago
    I see others were wondering the same thing I was: it appears Jessie James Decker deactivated her Twitter account ...(Hope it's temporary)





    Brian Costello @BrianCoz  ·  3h 3 hours ago
    I told Eric Decker I was surprised at the twitter hate because I only ever get love from Jets fans on twitter.






    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  2h 2 hours ago
    #Jets fans: Getting player's lovely wives to deactivate their Twitter account and wasting their money on dumb billboard campaigns




    The shame is all her fans who she has had for years and have nothing to do with this have to suffer
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by GratefulJet on Thu 30 Oct 2014 - 20:30

    There definitely is an ugly strain of Jets fan out there. Reminds me of the soccer hooliganism in England. Passion + frustration = bad behavior by some people.

    This kind of takes us to the inherent problem with sports fandom in general these days--it is all outcome-based rather than process-based. Let's look at baseball: think about our impressions of the baseball fan experience from the turn of the century. Not this century, the previous one. 1900. Gauzy, summer afternoons spent lounging on a grassy knoll (not in Dallas), watching men in pajamas and brimmed caps run about leaping and sliding trying to strike and catch this little hard white ball. Very cricket-like. (The ultimate process-based fan experience.)

    Fast forward to pro football today. The game is now about outcomes. Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing. Large, strong, mean men imposing their will on other similar men. Game as a Hobbesian metaphor for life: nasty, brutish and short.

    Some of us want to intellectualize it. Maybe that can't be done. Maybe it really is a game reserved for the nasty and brutish men who play it, and best enjoyed by people who fit that description too. Try to understand it and you will become frustrated and angry, and before you know it, you'll be just like them.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 0:18

    Old#15 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    Old#15 wrote:With all due respects, its not entirely his mess.  He inherited a colossal mess with a bare cupboard and a cap nightmare.  Granted every move hasn't been good, but how much of what we are now witnessing can be attributed to the effects of miserable player development, little or no homegrown talent from the previous 4 pre-Idzik drafts, player misuse and generally poor coaching.  I think that the fact that we have such a poor base or poorly coached base of talent on this roster puts way too much pressure on 22 year old draftees to contribute immediately at the level that some of us expect.  

    He's had 20 draft picks and $50 mill in cap space to spend, over half the roster is his mess.  No free passes in this grown men industry.

    And the players not his mess are names like Harris, Mangold, Brick, Pace, Snacks, Kendrick Ellis, Douzable, Walls, Coples, some guy named Mo Wilkerson, Demario Davis, Powell, Kerley, and Cumberland.  Somehow I dont feel the players he inherited are the problem...

    My comment stands.  We may have a chicken vs. the egg argument.  I feel that no matter what you put on the field, if they are not properly prepared, coached, or suited for the scheme then the fault in my eyes is with the coaching.  With Ryan at the helm I don't think we'll ever know what the ceiling could have been with the likes of Coples, Smith, and maybe even Sanchez.  Of the players you listed Mo and Snacks are the only 2 who have achieved 'greatness' under Rex, and I honestly believe their success is due in large part to DL coach Dunbar.  Davis IMHO is succeeding on his own.  Walls is part of the of a secondary that many characterize as a 'miserable mess', so he is probably not the best example to give.  The offensive duo of Powell and Cumberland, not exactly foundation guys, more like JAGs. Coples again IMHO is the poster child of Rex's inability to play to a players strengths vs being marginalized in a glorified defensive coord's ego-driven scheme.  I'm rambling here, so I'll stop.

    I dont disagree completely. A new coaching staff (and scouting department) is needed to better evaluate Idzik anyway. Your assessment is fair, IMO.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 8:00

    There are times this fan base embarrasses me. This is one of them.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 9:03

    On another note, it seems that not as much on this board, but among Jets fans in general, Rex may be one of the first guys to constantly get a free pass. He has been here six years, and there aren't that many calls for him to be fired. Meanwhile, there's a new site out there, firejohnidzik.com

    Rex is incredibly bulletproof with this fan base.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by GratefulJet on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 9:39

    SackExchange wrote:On another note, it seems that not as much on this board, but among Jets fans in general, Rex may be one of the first guys to constantly get a free pass. He has been here six years, and there aren't that many calls for him to be fired. Meanwhile, there's a new site out there, firejohnidzik.com

    Rex is incredibly bulletproof with this fan base.

    I'd crosscheck the IP address of that site's admin against Rex's desktop, LOL!

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by WilliesDad on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 9:59

    SackExchange wrote:There are times this fan base embarrasses me. This is one of them.

    Ditto. Shameful.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by soj on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 11:06

    GratefulJet wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:On another note, it seems that not as much on this board, but among Jets fans in general, Rex may be one of the first guys to constantly get a free pass. He has been here six years, and there aren't that many calls for him to be fired. Meanwhile, there's a new site out there, firejohnidzik.com

    Rex is incredibly bulletproof with this fan base.

    I'd crosscheck the IP address of that site's admin against Rex's desktop, LOL!  

    lol! very funny...

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by soj on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 11:06

    WilliesDad wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:There are times this fan base embarrasses me. This is one of them.

    Ditto.  Shameful.

    Agree with you both...

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Old#15 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 11:12

    SackExchange wrote:There are times this fan base embarrasses me. This is one of them.

    Is it the discussions that we are having here, the 'fireidzik.com' clan or what?  just curious.  For what its worth, I think this board is pretty decent in terms of thoughtful and respectful discussions.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Old#15 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 11:51

    A discussion worthy article that I tend to agree with:

    http://nyj.scout.com/story/1475310-idzik-will-not-and-should-not-be-fired?s=65
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by football51 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 12:24

    Old#15 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:There are times this fan base embarrasses me. This is one of them.

    Is it the discussions that we are having here, the 'fireidzik.com' clan or what?  just curious.  For what its worth, I think this board is pretty decent in terms of thoughtful and respectful discussions.





    I think Sack means the poor treatment of Decker's wife.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by football51 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 12:36

    Now, this seems pretty accurate and fair. They have him higher than a 10% draft rate too. Notice the 49er and Seahawk mentions at the end.









    http://turnonthejets.com/2014/10/toj-grading-new-york-jets-general-manager-john-idzik-24-games/
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 12:52

    football51 wrote:
    Old#15 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:There are times this fan base embarrasses me. This is one of them.

    Is it the discussions that we are having here, the 'fireidzik.com' clan or what?  just curious.  For what its worth, I think this board is pretty decent in terms of thoughtful and respectful discussions.





    I think Sack means the poor treatment of Decker's wife.
    Yes, this.

    I may not agree with the sentiment of the Fire Idzik crowd, and I may think they are kneejerk and reactionary, but they are more than entitled to their opinion. That said, I've said on a few occasions that this board is head and shoulders above what is found elsewhere, including our old place.

    What embarrassed me was the way Jets fans treated Decker's wife online.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by football51 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 12:55

    Also, this man is in our front office.




    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Graves



    He drafted Karlos Dansby, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Antrel Rolle, Darnell Dockett, Calais Campbell, Steve Breaston, etc. He also aquired Kurt Warner off the scrap heap from the Giants putting the finishing touches on a SB roster.



    I think we're fine with the player personnel experience.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Blindsidebrick on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 13:09

    FireJohnIdzik.com.

    10,000 dollar billboards.

    The insanity has reached it's peak.
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 13:18

    I think insanity had been reached when Idzik was blamed instead of Rex for receivers dropping passes.

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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by Metjetgal on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 15:11

    Insanity never reached it's peak with this fan base affraid
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    Re: Idzik's state of the team

    Post by football51 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 18:43

    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 4h 4 hours ago
    Among funniest things about a billboard: If it actually goes up by final home game, more Patriots fans will see it than #Jets fans



    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 4h 4 hours ago
    Also if it goes up after football season, the #Jets are based in Florham Park (about 10 miles from closest billboard), not East Rutherford


    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 3h 3 hours ago
    #TOJ supports this cause. #DONATE RT @JoeCarlson36: Instead of firing John Idzik lets reanimate weeb ewbank http://www.gofundme.com/gjs3a8 Shocked





    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 3h 3 hours ago
    If Weeb Ewbank does in fact get reanimated, I promise complimentary season tickets to everybody who has visited our site #Jets #FreeWeeb




    9. Josh Mauga will make a nice play for the Chiefs at some point and five people will tweet at me spelling the GM’s name wrong and complaining he wasn’t brought back on a massive contract extension. rotflmao


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