Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

Superman55 wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_25355128/emmanuel-sanders-broncos-new-deal

"To play with Peyton Manning is like wide receiver heaven," Sanders said. "I know that he's going to make me a better player, whether it's mentally or physically. I know I'm in a great environment."

yup, I'm sure he wanted to play with Geno, but damn Idzik screwed it all up by going to Texas Tech's pro day.  I mean Manish Mehta said so, so it's gotta be true...

Are you Mehta's ghost writer?  This is some Great reporting here.

He visited 5 other teams first...some with good QBs aNd some without.  What do you expect him to say after signing with Manning?  I really wish the tax-less state of Florida offered me more money?  What exactly is he supposed to say after signing with the broncos?  Oh, exactly what he said.

Now, what did Decker say after signing here?  Answer: the same thing Sanders would have said if he signed here...and if Decker signed with the Pats, his quotes would be the same as above by sanders, remove Manning insert Brady.  

The fact he scheduled 5 visits before the Broncos tells me a lot more than some quotes after the fact, Mehta.

using your logic, he scheduled 4 trips before he was theoretically supposed to visit with the jets.  the niners and chiefs, both playoff teams, and the jags and bucs, teams with a lot of cap space.  he had also had scheduled a visit with the broncos.  

you seem to think that if only sanders had come to NY and idzik didn't re-schedule that he would signed here.  why?  because Mehta says so i guess.

if you were a free agent and had a chance to play with peyton manning, or play on playoff teams like the niners or chiefs, would you really come to the jets and play with geno?  more likely, the jets were viewed akin to the bucs and jags - crappy teams with money to spend.  and in the end, where did he go???  that's right, to the team that made the super bowl last year who has the hall of fame QB.  not to the team that had the most cap space to offer him.

but mehta says he would have come here, so suddenly you are taking the hack's word as gospel.  good to know you think mehta is a reliable source.

You're missing the boat as an Idzik apologist.

He's an NFL GM the first week of free agency.  I don't give a damn if we would have signed Sanders or not.  dRC or not.  But be in the f'n office when they visit.  How about that?  Just be in the office.

You pay scouts and have private workout for all the draft picks you want, as many as you want for all intensive purposes.

You have a small window in free agency, can I at least have the GM in the office the first week of free agency, is that asking too much?  You know, come to work, be in the office, let the scouts do their job and you try doing yours?  Is that too much to ask?

You're an "Idzik apologist" if you don't call for his head right now.

This cap space and draft criticism is based on some wild notion that fans have the inside track on negotiations. It's really laughable how much some people think they know.

How much I know?  Clown.

I know he canceled a meeting with Emmanuel Sanders because he was on a scouting trip and wasn't even in town for negotiations with DRC....

How many GMs aren't in town for free agent visits the first week of free agency...clown GMs with clown apologists, that's who...

"the Jets offered DRC a one year prove it deal and they stuck to that, even after hearing about what the Giants offered. However, John Idzik wanted to improve his bid, but with him being in Louisville, it wouldn't have been as easy to sell a new contract to DRC."

Scouts should scout players...GMs sign them and are part of the evaluation process, not front and center...so we didn't even have real shots at DRC or Sanders because John wasn't even in town when they wanted/or did visit...  That is what a clown does, doesn't even show up when his organization needs him.

You line up behind your clown GM with your clown comments.  As I've already said, clown, I'd give him 1 more year to break his clown habits...sorry if I want a legit GM that treats free agency like a professional, not a clown.

hobson54 wrote:the vultures are circling.  looks like the press is loving the fact that they get to rip apart the jets.  they even make up stories like revis would have come to the jets if only we offered him a contract even though that is just a figment of their imagination.  but that never stopped the media from running unsubstantiated items to further their agenda.

Superman55 wrote:Someone fires a shot, I fire a bigger shot back and I'm the child?  okay.

hobson54 wrote:the vultures are circling.  looks like the press is loving the fact that they get to rip apart the jets.  they even make up stories like revis would have come to the jets if only we offered him a contract even though that is just a figment of their imagination.  but that never stopped the media from running unsubstantiated items to further their agenda.

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:the vultures are circling.  looks like the press is loving the fact that they get to rip apart the jets.  they even make up stories like revis would have come to the jets if only we offered him a contract even though that is just a figment of their imagination.  but that never stopped the media from running unsubstantiated items to further their agenda.

Does that mean you think what Davis is saying isn't true?  Do you feel, from what you've seen in 2014, that Rex is reaching the players and we have the roster to be successful on Sundays?  You think the posts hanging Rex and Idzik our to dry are unfair?

hobson54 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:the vultures are circling.  looks like the press is loving the fact that they get to rip apart the jets.  they even make up stories like revis would have come to the jets if only we offered him a contract even though that is just a figment of their imagination.  but that never stopped the media from running unsubstantiated items to further their agenda.

Does that mean you think what Davis is saying isn't true?  Do you feel, from what you've seen in 2014, that Rex is reaching the players and we have the roster to be successful on Sundays?  You think the posts hanging Rex and Idzik our to dry are unfair?

i definitely think much of the criticism is valid.  there is no question the team is looking bad right now.  this draft class, at this premature stage, is looking bad, and the off-season is hardly a ringing success right now.

but all the stories about how revis would have came here or how the jets screwed up by trading revis in the first place (see mehta's garbage story the other day), and all the writers who talked about the jets being in cap hell a year ago, now to say that idzik didn't really do anything to address the issue and he should go out and spend lots of money, seem to be piling on gratuitously.  

criticism is warranted.  the team looked abysmal last week and it doesn't look to get much better with denver and NE in the next 9 days.  but some of the garbage being spread here is just too much.

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:the vultures are circling.  looks like the press is loving the fact that they get to rip apart the jets.  they even make up stories like revis would have come to the jets if only we offered him a contract even though that is just a figment of their imagination.  but that never stopped the media from running unsubstantiated items to further their agenda.

Does that mean you think what Davis is saying isn't true?  Do you feel, from what you've seen in 2014, that Rex is reaching the players and we have the roster to be successful on Sundays?  You think the posts hanging Rex and Idzik our to dry are unfair?

i definitely think much of the criticism is valid.  there is no question the team is looking bad right now.  this draft class, at this premature stage, is looking bad, and the off-season is hardly a ringing success right now.

but all the stories about how revis would have came here or how the jets screwed up by trading revis in the first place (see mehta's garbage story the other day), and all the writers who talked about the jets being in cap hell a year ago, now to say that idzik didn't really do anything to address the issue and he should go out and spend lots of money, seem to be piling on gratuitously.  

criticism is warranted.  the team looked abysmal last week and it doesn't look to get much better with denver and NE in the next 9 days.  but some of the garbage being spread here is just too much.

I get hindsight being 20/20, even when I was aruging tooth and nail about wanting DJax 6 months ago, it's easy for me to say now, "I told you so..." when in all honesty, I don't trust the guy to not get in trouble 6 months from now.  I'm being honest, I wanted DJax very bad, but I completely understand the hesitation, especially so soon after cutting Holmes and not having a vet lockerroom with enough guys to police bad behavior (I'd rather wait for Torey Smith this spring any way, even with his 3 drops this year, but 5 PI penalties called against him in the first 3 games)...  I'm not going to pretend DJax wasn't a gamble.  My point is, do you honestly feel, with $24 mill sitting in the bank and another $30 mill in cap space coming this spring (not even counting David Harris and his $11 mill also coming off teh book, we're likely to be ~$60 mill under next year's cap), that we shouldn't have done more to add talent?

I know neither one of us love DRC...fine, fine, fine.  I only loved Talib and Thurman from this group of CBs and wanted no part of Revis...I even agree with you Revis never wanted back here and go through that mess again; I'm betting he loves his deal with the Pats (though I feel he is getting exposed weekly as a fraud)...i don't even feel that was a big miss.

But you feel 100% on board with how Idzik handled free agency?  I know when it happened you seemed fine, but was it cautiously optimistic, like hopefully this works, or you were all in, he did what he had to with drafting Amaro and signing Decker and CJ2k (I love all 3 players, so I'm not complaining, including CJ2k, good gamble even if the returns have been minimal)?  I'm just asking, because you spew the Idzik line through thick and thin, but I have to believe some is hopeful and some is 100% agreement.

i.e. - I'm hopeful Pryor works out, I am 100% agreement behind Amaro, even if he's dumb as a potato, it's good value for where we got him (not a reach and he wouldn't have fallen much further, and we needed a pass catching TE).

Superman55 wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_25355128/emmanuel-sanders-broncos-new-deal

"To play with Peyton Manning is like wide receiver heaven," Sanders said. "I know that he's going to make me a better player, whether it's mentally or physically. I know I'm in a great environment."

yup, I'm sure he wanted to play with Geno, but damn Idzik screwed it all up by going to Texas Tech's pro day.  I mean Manish Mehta said so, so it's gotta be true...

Are you Mehta's ghost writer?  This is some Great reporting here.

He visited 5 other teams first...some with good QBs aNd some without.  What do you expect him to say after signing with Manning?  I really wish the tax-less state of Florida offered me more money?  What exactly is he supposed to say after signing with the broncos?  Oh, exactly what he said.

Now, what did Decker say after signing here?  Answer: the same thing Sanders would have said if he signed here...and if Decker signed with the Pats, his quotes would be the same as above by sanders, remove Manning insert Brady.  

The fact he scheduled 5 visits before the Broncos tells me a lot more than some quotes after the fact, Mehta.

using your logic, he scheduled 4 trips before he was theoretically supposed to visit with the jets.  the niners and chiefs, both playoff teams, and the jags and bucs, teams with a lot of cap space.  he had also had scheduled a visit with the broncos.  

you seem to think that if only sanders had come to NY and idzik didn't re-schedule that he would signed here.  why?  because Mehta says so i guess.

if you were a free agent and had a chance to play with peyton manning, or play on playoff teams like the niners or chiefs, would you really come to the jets and play with geno?  more likely, the jets were viewed akin to the bucs and jags - crappy teams with money to spend.  and in the end, where did he go???  that's right, to the team that made the super bowl last year who has the hall of fame QB.  not to the team that had the most cap space to offer him.

but mehta says he would have come here, so suddenly you are taking the hack's word as gospel.  good to know you think mehta is a reliable source.

You're missing the boat as an Idzik apologist.

He's an NFL GM the first week of free agency.  I don't give a damn if we would have signed Sanders or not.  dRC or not.  But be in the f'n office when they visit.  How about that?  Just be in the office.

You pay scouts and have private workout for all the draft picks you want, as many as you want for all intensive purposes.

You have a small window in free agency, can I at least have the GM in the office the first week of free agency, is that asking too much?  You know, come to work, be in the office, let the scouts do their job and you try doing yours?  Is that too much to ask?

You're an "Idzik apologist" if you don't call for his head right now.

This cap space and draft criticism is based on some wild notion that fans have the inside track on negotiations. It's really laughable how much some people think they know.

How much I know?  Clown.

I know he canceled a meeting with Emmanuel Sanders because he was on a scouting trip and wasn't even in town for negotiations with DRC....

How many GMs aren't in town for free agent visits the first week of free agency...clown GMs with clown apologists, that's who...

"the Jets offered DRC a one year prove it deal and they stuck to that, even after hearing about what the Giants offered. However, John Idzik wanted to improve his bid, but with him being in Louisville, it wouldn't have been as easy to sell a new contract to DRC."

Scouts should scout players...GMs sign them and are part of the evaluation process, not front and center...so we didn't even have real shots at DRC or Sanders because John wasn't even in town when they wanted/or did visit...  That is what a clown does, doesn't even show up when his organization needs him.

You line up behind your clown GM with your clown comments.  As I've already said, clown, I'd give him 1 more year to break his clown habits...sorry if I want a legit GM that treats free agency like a professional, not a clown.

And now... Childish name-calling. How old are you?

I challenge your assumptions, and you cannot respond like an adult.

You take an indirect shot, and cry when I respond by kicking in your teeth.  Look at it this way, you probably look better with kicked in teeth.  You know what they say about if you can't stand the heat...you see the last sentence of your original post?  Don't cry now about name calling, clown.

LIJETFAN wrote:Nice find Hobson.  I think the general premise is consistent with what I said earlier, his results have been mixed on personnel.  And as far as the cap space, that is not a problem per se.  The problem is that there were holes on the roster that were not adequately addressed either via the draft or free agency.  And it is those shortcomings which have hurt the Jets the most.  With the exception of course of the QB.  

The conclusion that the Jets will never get anywhere until they find their franchise QB is true.  But to find a Russell Wilson or an Andrew Luck in this or any draft is a very rare circumstance.  They are both once in a generation type of talents and for different reasons.  If the Jets can find a top 10 QB that would be good enough.  Looking ahead to next year's draft, depending upon which team has the first pick, you could be looking at the Raiders and Jaguars drafting in the top spot.  Neither needs a QB.  So the Jets might be able to trade up and get the player they want.  Tampa Bay could also be drafting very high and they would want to move up if there is a clear cut #1.  I know it is way too early for draft scenarios.  But such is where this season is headed already....

hobson54 wrote:really nice article from grantland which helps puts things into perspective.


http://grantland.com/the-triangle/new-york-jets-running-backs/


Explaining the Jets: Yes, They Definitely Have a Plan



Over the past week, Jets general manager John Idzik has come under fire for perceived slights with his work building the 2014 team. A New York Daily News article by Jets beat writer Manish Mehta on Saturday was followed by an embarrassing 31-0 loss in San Diego. Quarterback Geno Smith, Idzik’s second-round pick from the 2013 draft, played dismally before being benched, with postgame reports revealing that Smith had missed a team meeting Saturday. All in all, it was a pretty rough weekend for Idzik.

While I won’t pretend the Jets looked remotely competent during their loss to the Chargers, I can’t agree that Idzik has made a mess of running his football team during his two-year tenure. There have been missteps, just as there are with any general manager, but Idzik has executed a clear plan that makes a lot of sense. Criticisms of his performance miss the logic behind a number of Idzik’s decisions.

Take, for example, the idea that Idzik is somehow frugally holding on to his cap space while Jets fans shell out for some of the most expensive tickets in the league. This isn’t late-’90s baseball. There’s absolutely no relationship between in-stadium ticket prices and team spending; every team in the NFL has more than enough money to spend beyond the salary cap, by virtue of the league’s massive national television contract. The economics of one simply have nothing to do with the other. The Jets charge a ton for tickets because they think the market will give them a ton for tickets.

Gang Green has just less than $24 million in cap space, the second-largest figure in football behind the Jaguars ($29 million). It’s natural to think in the short term that the Jets would be better if they had committed that $24 million to players in free agency this offseason, but that ignores two simple concepts.

One is the idea of cap rollover — namely, if the Jets don’t spend that $24 million this year, they can roll it over to create more space on next year’s cap. They weren’t able to do that this offseason, having carried over just $1.5 million in cap space from 2013, which was below the league median of $2.3 million. While the NFL salary cap next year is estimated to be about $140 million, the Jets will get to spend up to $164 million.

Second is the concept of opportunity cost. Spending that money on players now means you’re unable to carry that money over to the future, when you may very well have better (or more expensive) talent available to pursue. It also takes away roster spots from young players who come through the draft, which is where you’re always going to find the most surplus value to build the most sustainable, effective football team.

Look at Idzik’s past and you can see whom he’s emulating. Idzik came from Seattle, where the general manager is John Schneider, who comes from the Ted Thompson tree of managers. Thompson-style general managers hoard draft picks, maintain cap flexibility, and generally avoid the middle class of free agency, only occasionally jumping into the water for a big splash. In fact, the only real missteps Schneider has made during his time at the helm in Seattle have come in free agency, as big deals for players like Matt Flynn, Sidney Rice, and Zach Miller have produced disappointing results, while short-term deals for Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril were wildly successful.

With that surely in mind, Idzik’s philosophy in free agency has been mostly to stick with short-term, low-risk contracts. He went deep for wideout Eric Decker, filling what even Idzik critics would agree was a massive hole by getting the best free agent available at the position with a five-year, $36.25 million deal. Also, offensive lineman Breno Giacomini signed a four-year, $18 million contract. Otherwise, contracts for veterans like Chris Johnson, Jason Babin, and Michael Vick have all been relatively short, cheap, or both. That’s not Idzik trying to pinch pennies. It’s Idzik emulating the success of the Seahawks, the Packers, and (although Jets fans might not want to hear it) the Patriots. Bad teams spend to the cap for the sake of spending money.

Idzik had to operate in the low-cost free-agent market because there was very little left in the cupboard when he took over. This was the depth chart in January 2013, shortly before Idzik joined the Jets. It features, by my count, just 17 players who are still on the Jets roster, and most of the departed are veterans who are either done playing football or disappointing on somebody else’s roster. Should Idzik have used the cap space he had to re-sign the likes of Shonn Greene, Austin Howard, or LaRon Landry, who each got ponderously large deals elsewhere?

It’s fair to say many of the short-term stopgaps haven’t paid out, and some have embarrassed the team. Mehta cites the off-field issues of players like Kellen Winslow Jr. and Mike Goodson as evidence it was a mistake to sign them, while cornerback Dimitri Patterson bizarrely signed before the 2014 season and had to be released, leaving the Jets perilously thin. Mehta treats David Garrard as a “notable acquisition,” which is odd for a quarterback who was signed to a one-year deal for the league minimum. In virtually all these cases, Idzik was throwing a short-term solution at the wall and hoping it stuck. Better Vick at $2 million for one year than, say, Josh McCown at two years and $10 million.

Given where the Jets are, that’s not a stupid idea. As I wrote about in the team’s preseason preview, previous general manager Mike Tannenbaum frequently traded up in drafts and used draft picks to acquire veterans, leaving the Jets with virtually nothing on their current roster from their 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 drafts. Idzik surely wants to replace those absent holes with draftees, but it takes time to acquire those picks and develop those players.

And it’s hard to say that Idzik has been a subpar drafter. His first selection in 2013, cornerback Dee Milliner, struggled in much the same way most rookie cornerbacks do before suffering a high ankle sprain that has kept him out for virtually all of the 2014 campaign.1 Idzik’s other first-rounder, Sheldon Richardson, won defensive rookie of the year. Brian Winters, the team’s third-round pick, has been disappointing at guard. It seems insane to suggest it’s time to evaluate Idzik’s 12 picks from the 2014 draft beyond noting that it’s frustrating to see fourth-rounder Jalen Saunders already released. Idzik’s draft record may turn out to be unsatisfactory, but it’s far too soon to tell.2

Look at the depth chart of the Seahawks from October 1 of Schneider’s second year with the team as a sign of how much work still had to be done. Schneider had already acquired Marshawn Lynch, but Lynch was a mess who didn’t break out until later in the 2011 season. Richard Sherman was just a fifth-round pick who hadn’t started an NFL game. The likes of Aaron Curry and Marcus Trufant were still hanging out in serious roles on the roster, while veteran fill-ins like Robert Gallery and Alan Branch would play meaningful roles that year.

Most notably, pay attention to the most important spot of all: quarterback. Schneider surely knew he wasn’t going to win a ton of football games with Tarvaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst at quarterback, even after making the mistake of trading a third-round pick and swapping second-round picks to acquire Whitehurst from the Chargers.

Instead of spending to the limit to try to squeeze a 9-7 season out of a football team with no prayer of going far in the playoffs, Schneider maintained flexibility, trusted his ability to draft and develop talent, and waited for the right quarterback opportunity to come. Eventually he found Russell Wilson, and the rest is history.

The truth for Idzik and the Jets right now is that it doesn’t matter what they do elsewhere in terms of winning now without a quarterback. They’re bad enough at that position that the other moves they make are just window dressing — a series of short-term decisions and drafted lottery tickets to set them up for that moment when they actually have the quarterback they need to succeed. That’s not what Rex Ryan or Jets fans want to hear, but it’s the reality of where they’re at in the NFL. Idzik still has to execute that plan, and it won’t matter until he finds that quarterback, but he’s on the right track.

As for Ryan and the Jets? Expectations were likely too high coming into the season. The Jets were 8-8 last year, but they were outscored by 97 points, which is the point differential of a 5.4-win team. That win-loss record included an unsustainable 5-1 performance in games decided by a touchdown or less, including two miraculous wins driven by unlikely late-game penalties on the Buccaneers and Patriots. The Jets already had two seven-point losses and an eight-point loss on their résumé this year before Sunday’s blowout. If they had enjoyed just an average amount of luck in close games last year and gone 5-11, Ryan probably would have been fired. Now, regardless of what Idzik does, Ryan will probably suffer that fate.

hobson54 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:the vultures are circling.  looks like the press is loving the fact that they get to rip apart the jets.  they even make up stories like revis would have come to the jets if only we offered him a contract even though that is just a figment of their imagination.  but that never stopped the media from running unsubstantiated items to further their agenda.

Does that mean you think what Davis is saying isn't true?  Do you feel, from what you've seen in 2014, that Rex is reaching the players and we have the roster to be successful on Sundays?  You think the posts hanging Rex and Idzik our to dry are unfair?

i definitely think much of the criticism is valid.  there is no question the team is looking bad right now.  this draft class, at this premature stage, is looking bad, and the off-season is hardly a ringing success right now.

but all the stories about how revis would have came here or how the jets screwed up by trading revis in the first place (see mehta's garbage story the other day), and all the writers who talked about the jets being in cap hell a year ago, now to say that idzik didn't really do anything to address the issue and he should go out and spend lots of money, seem to be piling on gratuitously.  

criticism is warranted.  the team looked abysmal last week and it doesn't look to get much better with denver and NE in the next 9 days.  but some of the garbage being spread here is just too much.

I get hindsight being 20/20, even when I was aruging tooth and nail about wanting DJax 6 months ago, it's easy for me to say now, "I told you so..." when in all honesty, I don't trust the guy to not get in trouble 6 months from now.  I'm being honest, I wanted DJax very bad, but I completely understand the hesitation, especially so soon after cutting Holmes and not having a vet lockerroom with enough guys to police bad behavior (I'd rather wait for Torey Smith this spring any way, even with his 3 drops this year, but 5 PI penalties called against him in the first 3 games)...  I'm not going to pretend DJax wasn't a gamble.  My point is, do you honestly feel, with $24 mill sitting in the bank and another $30 mill in cap space coming this spring (not even counting David Harris and his $11 mill also coming off teh book, we're likely to be ~$60 mill under next year's cap), that we shouldn't have done more to add talent?

I know neither one of us love DRC...fine, fine, fine.  I only loved Talib and Thurman from this group of CBs and wanted no part of Revis...I even agree with you Revis never wanted back here and go through that mess again; I'm betting he loves his deal with the Pats (though I feel he is getting exposed weekly as a fraud)...i don't even feel that was a big miss.

But you feel 100% on board with how Idzik handled free agency?  I know when it happened you seemed fine, but was it cautiously optimistic, like hopefully this works, or you were all in, he did what he had to with drafting Amaro and signing Decker and CJ2k (I love all 3 players, so I'm not complaining, including CJ2k, good gamble even if the returns have been minimal)?  I'm just asking, because you spew the Idzik line through thick and thin, but I have to believe some is hopeful and some is 100% agreement.

i.e. - I'm hopeful Pryor works out, I am 100% agreement behind Amaro, even if he's dumb as a potato, it's good value for where we got him (not a reach and he wouldn't have fallen much further, and we needed a pass catching TE).

i would have preferred that we added another WR (like a tate or sanders, but understand that we can't control where those players signed) and would have preferred a different CB than Patterson (like thurmond or davis or bringing back cro, but thurmond got hurt, davis stayed with the colts, and for some reason, the jets never had interest in cro - which i assume included rex and thurman).  so yes, i would liked to see them do more, but understand that idzik wasn't gonna overpay (like the giants did for DRC), and i'm fine with that strategy.  i assumed this was still a rebuilding (reloading?) year and even in my "optimistic" view, we were an 8-8 team, give or take.  

as to the draft, i too wanted different WRs than the ones we took.  i'm fine with both the pryor and amaro picks, although would have been happy with dennard in the 1st (didn't want benjamin (opps) and while i really liked cooks, i thought we needed an outside WR) and taking a WR in the 2nd over amaro.  mcdougle was a head scratcher at the time and i was on record in our old draft thread wanting something like ellington/bryant instead of sanders/evans as 4th round WRs.  right now, none of the 4 are doing anything, so who knows if "my" picks would have been better than idzik's picks.

obviously things aren't working out.  criticism towards idzik and towards rex are valid.  but i also take the view that idzik is working on a long-term plan, so i realize that more time is needed to fully execute on the plan.  obviously a bad draft class (as it is looking at this very early stage) would be a terrible set-back to that long-term plan.

i know you've brought up that the cap goes up and everyone will have money next year.  which is true.  but what i think that means is that player contracts will also go up, so having money is all relative as agents are gonna be asking for the sun and the moon with more money needing to be spent.

i'm as big of a rex fan as any here, and unfortunately, i think it is becoming time to make a change.  happens to a lot of good coaches, that after 5 or 6 years, especially if there are a few losing seasons, that it's time to move on.  i don't buy into the theories that idzik set rex up to fail so he can bring his own people in.  i just think that the team may no longer be responding to rex.  and yes, personnel has a lot to do with results, so idzik is also accountable.  now maybe rex and the team turn it around, but color me skeptical.

as to idzik, to me, it takes more time to evaluate the long-term plan.  maybe mcdougle and evans turn into solid players, the light goes on for pryor, and he goes out and uses his cap space to lock up young studs on the roster and adds some talent in FA next off-season.  to me, it's too early to be calling for his head.  you really need at least 3, if not 4 years, to truly evaluate a GM and his plan.

criticism is warranted.  but to me, there is too much hyperbole and monday morning QBing, often ignoring the facts and realities that you can't just make players sign with you.  this is what i was referring to with the vultures are circling wrt the press.


+1. This is pretty much how I feel. Well stated, Hobson.

LIJETFAN wrote:55 - Yes, I think we can have a healthy debate about whether Luck and Wilson fit that definition.  It is only my opinion.  I do think that we can both agree that both are excellent players, and when Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron, Rodgers and Drew Brees move on from the game, Luck and Wilson if they stay healthy would certainly be at the top of the list of QBs in the league.  Both have accomplished a whole lot very early in their careers, more than most.  And if they stay healthy, they should only get better.  

I agree that it is possible to find a franchise QB in the draft, but it is not an easy task.  There is a little Luck of the draw if you will.  Think back to when Peyton Manning decided to stay in school one more year, and the Jets had the top pick that season.  But is is possible yes.  

I think it is harder to develop them now than in the past because there is no apprenticeship time.  Aaron Rodgers is the last QB that I can think of that had that luxury.  So, having a QB step in and make a huge impact early is rare.  I would bet that winning a SB is even more so.  I think it is safe to say that Luck and Wilson have made significant impacts on their franchises in a very short time.

football51 wrote:So, where are the "we should've resigned Cro" posts this week?


Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  8h 8 hours ago
RT @ProFootballTalk: Demaryius Thomas wins AFC offensive player honors for 200+ yard outburst http://wp.me/p14QSB-9AU4