When is it the coach and when is it the players?

danfran wrote:

football51 wrote:Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
Catching up with Vick quotes - So now we got Vick saying he doesn't work hard in practice, Geno missing meetings, Demario saying team...


Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
...doesn't watch film and practice well, Mangold backing it up. Sheldon saying there are defensive communication issues...




Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
But this is a well coached team? Maybe the #Jets conspiracists got it backwards, maybe Rex is trying to sabotage himself to get fired...

Man, it sounds like the rats are deserting a sinking ship....

Superman55 wrote:

danfran wrote:

football51 wrote:Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
Catching up with Vick quotes - So now we got Vick saying he doesn't work hard in practice, Geno missing meetings, Demario saying team...


Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
...doesn't watch film and practice well, Mangold backing it up. Sheldon saying there are defensive communication issues...




Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
But this is a well coached team? Maybe the #Jets conspiracists got it backwards, maybe Rex is trying to sabotage himself to get fired...

Man, it sounds like the rats are deserting a sinking ship....

...........we're blaming all these issues on Rex now?  That's nice.  Who put Geno and Vick on the Jets roster?  Was it Rex who signed and drafted those 2?  Oh, Rex Ryan did.  Let's blame it all on him.  Nice, Joe.

NickSINYC wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

danfran wrote:

football51 wrote:Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
Catching up with Vick quotes - So now we got Vick saying he doesn't work hard in practice, Geno missing meetings, Demario saying team...


Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
...doesn't watch film and practice well, Mangold backing it up. Sheldon saying there are defensive communication issues...




Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
But this is a well coached team? Maybe the #Jets conspiracists got it backwards, maybe Rex is trying to sabotage himself to get fired...

Man, it sounds like the rats are deserting a sinking ship....

...........we're blaming all these issues on Rex now?  That's nice.  Who put Geno and Vick on the Jets roster?  Was it Rex who signed and drafted those 2?  Oh, Rex Ryan did.  Let's blame it all on him.  Nice, Joe.

I know you dislike Idzik but I am not sure how you can blame drafting and signing players for poor practices, missing meetings and poor film work?

NickSINYC wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

danfran wrote:

football51 wrote:Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
Catching up with Vick quotes - So now we got Vick saying he doesn't work hard in practice, Geno missing meetings, Demario saying team...


Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
...doesn't watch film and practice well, Mangold backing it up. Sheldon saying there are defensive communication issues...




Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
But this is a well coached team? Maybe the #Jets conspiracists got it backwards, maybe Rex is trying to sabotage himself to get fired...

Man, it sounds like the rats are deserting a sinking ship....

...........we're blaming all these issues on Rex now?  That's nice.  Who put Geno and Vick on the Jets roster?  Was it Rex who signed and drafted those 2?  Oh, Rex Ryan did.  Let's blame it all on him.  Nice, Joe.

I know you dislike Idzik but I am not sure how you can blame drafting and signing players for poor practices, missing meetings and poor film work?

SackExchange wrote:

NickSINYC wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

danfran wrote:

football51 wrote:Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
Catching up with Vick quotes - So now we got Vick saying he doesn't work hard in practice, Geno missing meetings, Demario saying team...


Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
...doesn't watch film and practice well, Mangold backing it up. Sheldon saying there are defensive communication issues...




Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets  ·  17h 17 hours ago
But this is a well coached team? Maybe the #Jets conspiracists got it backwards, maybe Rex is trying to sabotage himself to get fired...

Man, it sounds like the rats are deserting a sinking ship....

...........we're blaming all these issues on Rex now?  That's nice.  Who put Geno and Vick on the Jets roster?  Was it Rex who signed and drafted those 2?  Oh, Rex Ryan did.  Let's blame it all on him.  Nice, Joe.

I know you dislike Idzik but I am not sure how you can blame drafting and signing players for poor practices, missing meetings and poor film work?

Thank you. That makes little sense to me. Just because Idzik didn't make the moves he would have made...

When it comes down to it, discipline and preparation are mandated by the HC, not the GM. Maybe guys want to play for Rex because it's easy.

SackExchange wrote:Idzik picked the cook? Are you now holding Idzik responsible for Rex Ryan being the HC of the Jets?

Seriously?

This is where you lose credibility. You have some knowledge, but you get blindsided by your own opinion. Despite Idzik picking your guy from way back, Geno, he didn't make all the moves you would have made. Therefore, he is the problem.

How is preparation, film work, and discipline NOT on the Head Coach? Or is Idzik to blame because Rex is the coach?

SackExchange wrote:I don't know if he did or not. We're not sure of Woody's role in that.

Still, holding Idzik accountable for Rex's shortcomings isn't fair in the least. If you want to bash Idzik, go ahead. I think he's made mistakes, too. But that one is misplaced blame.

SackExchange wrote:When he was drafted, Jeffery looked more like a guard than a WR.

Hindsight is 20/20.

SackExchange wrote:I don't know if he did or not. We're not sure of Woody's role in that.

Still, holding Idzik accountable for Rex's shortcomings isn't fair in the least. If you want to bash Idzik, go ahead. I think he's made mistakes, too. But that one is misplaced blame.

football51 wrote:

SackExchange wrote:When he was drafted, Jeffery looked more like a guard than a WR.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Here's a link with a Mayock reference to Jeffery.





http://www.stampedeblue.com/2012/4/19/2960675/mike-mayock-colts-need-to-build-offense-around-andrew-luck





More weight concerns.





[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/24/alshon-jeffery-sheds-large-amount-of-weight-for-combine/]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/24/alshon-jeffery-sheds-large-amount-of-weight-for-combine/[/
It's always easy to cherry pick who a team should've drafted after watching them perform at the NFL level.

football51 wrote:Dan Leberfeld @jetswhispers  ·  17m 17 minutes ago
Browns getting a lot of good work from unsung receivers - Taylor Gabriel, Travis Benjamin, Andrew Hawkins. Hoyer elevating their play.




Dan Leberfeld @jetswhispers  ·  16m 16 minutes ago
While you need weapons, the quarterback needs to deliver the ball on time and with accuracy - make good decisions. Hoyer does that.

football51 wrote:I think you're severely underestimating Kerley by saying he wouldn't see the field on most of the teams you mentioned.

football51 wrote:As Nick pointed out before(in this thread or another), the issues with Rex go back years regardless of personnel, gm, etc. It's like people talking about the "great secondaries" under Ryan. We had great secondaries in 2009 and 2010. That's it. Our secondaries were below average in 2011 and 2012, but statistically looked better because teams ran the ball down our throats. ever since the 2011 season, serious flaws in Ryan have been exposed. We ALL know that Idzik was forced to keep Ryan in 2013. Now, what we don't know is why he was brought back this year. MAYBE, he was asked to keep Ryan again. MAYBE, he felt it would be too long a wait to hire his guy(Quinn?). MAYBE, he wanted to see Smith with MM and company for another year to see if he was the answer at QB. Idzik has been upfront from the start about his intentions......... to build for sustainable success. He doesn't believe in quick fixes. He was a part of that process not only in Seattle, but in Tampa(Dungy is a huge advocate of Idzik) and to an extent in Arizona. Ryan's public bluster(and that of some players) obviously raised expectations for THIS season among some fans and media. That's not Idzik's fault either. Also, media members like Manish Mehta picked us to go 9-7 after the last preseason game. He saw who was and wasn't on this roster, he knew of Milliner's ankle, yet he still picked 9 wins. Now, he's hated Idzik from the start(no access), so he's blaming this start of the season on personnel rather than coaching. IMO, we had enough personnel to beat the Packers, Bears, and Lions. Coaching(including playing injured players in prominent roles), lack of discipline, and lack of preparation cost us three wins so far. IMO, while there is definite needs of personnel upgrades( I for one never expected that to be complete in year two), Ryan is not getting the most out of what he does have.

SackExchange wrote:When he was drafted, Jeffery looked more like a guard than a WR.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Depends on who's eyes yer looking through.
Was there ever ANY doubt expressed in HYATT's posts on Alshon Jeffery when we were all discussing drafting WRs in 2012 and people were lining up behind their favorite horses?

Blackmon, Floyd, Wright, Jenkins, Quick, Hill, Jeffery, Broyles, Randle, Posey, Graham, Sanu, Hilton, Givens, Benjamin, Adams, Wylie, Wright, Martin, Toon, etc. is how they came off the board but some folks wanted McNutt high, and others wanted Criner and Streeter a lot higher than they went too.
HYATT, if the Mad Cow hasn't eaten away too much of his brain, recalls expressing his desire to see Hill, Jeffery, Quick, & Wright be considered, in that order - and defended Jeffery in multiple debates against this:

WEAKNESSES
Jeffery is an elite jump-ball prospect, but he does not stand out as fast on tape and is such a long strider that at times he looks to be moving in slow motion.

(HYATT equated him with another long-strider who moves with apparent slowness which is actually effortless gliding - Larry Fitzgerald.)

Speed will never be his game, but he needs to become more comfortable in his routes to work the corner and truly gain separation. The development of his route-running skills will be the key to his success. Jeffery was bit uncoordinated early in his career and only began to look comfortable in his body toward the end of his collegiate career.

(Yeah, it took all of 5 SECONDS for Alshon Jeffery to suddenly get "UN-uncoordinated" in CHI.   )

The only mistake HYATT made was in believing Hill could become an even better WR than Jeffery, but acknowledged Hill's deficit of experience at GT and longer development cycle.


As for Kerley, HYATT reflects back on Laveranues Coles and how playing with Favre turned him into the STUD of the 2008 WR core.
Who plays QB certainly has an impact on receiver production.
Kerley is not exactly Pro Bowl material, but with no alternative WRs on the field he's going to get a certain number of looks and catch a certain number of balls he wouldn't otherwise on some other teams.
Does HYATT believe he is NFL caliber?
In part, because he's doing the job already, but ask HYATT if he'd replace Kerley in a heartbeat if an even marginally better WR came available and the answer will be "yes, most assuredly".

HYATT wrote:

SackExchange wrote:When he was drafted, Jeffery looked more like a guard than a WR.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Depends on who's eyes yer looking through.
Was there ever ANY doubt expressed in HYATT's posts on Alshon Jeffery when we were all discussing drafting WRs in 2012 and people were lining up behind their favorite horses?

Blackmon, Floyd, Wright, Jenkins, Quick, Hill, Jeffery, Broyles, Randle, Posey, Graham, Sanu, Hilton, Givens, Benjamin, Adams, Wylie, Wright, Martin, Toon, etc. is how they came off the board but some folks wanted McNutt high, and others wanted Criner and Streeter a lot higher than they went too.
HYATT, if the Mad Cow hasn't eaten away too much of his brain, recalls expressing his desire to see Hill, Jeffery, Quick, & Wright be considered, in that order - and defended Jeffery in multiple debates against this:

WEAKNESSES
Jeffery is an elite jump-ball prospect, but he does not stand out as fast on tape and is such a long strider that at times he looks to be moving in slow motion.

(HYATT equated him with another long-strider who moves with apparent slowness which is actually effortless gliding - Larry Fitzgerald.)

Speed will never be his game, but he needs to become more comfortable in his routes to work the corner and truly gain separation. The development of his route-running skills will be the key to his success. Jeffery was bit uncoordinated early in his career and only began to look comfortable in his body toward the end of his collegiate career.

(Yeah, it took all of 5 SECONDS for Alshon Jeffery to suddenly get "UN-uncoordinated" in CHI.   )

The only mistake HYATT made was in believing Hill could become an even better WR than Jeffery, but acknowledged Hill's deficit of experience at GT and longer development cycle.


As for Kerley, HYATT reflects back on Laveranues Coles and how playing with Favre turned him into the STUD of the 2008 WR core.
Who plays QB certainly has an impact on receiver production.
Kerley is not exactly Pro Bowl material, but with no alternative WRs on the field he's going to get a certain number of looks and catch a certain number of balls he wouldn't otherwise on some other teams.
Does HYATT believe he is NFL caliber?
In part, because he's doing the job already, but ask HYATT if he'd replace Kerley in a heartbeat if an even marginally better WR came available and the answer will be "yes, most assuredly".