2015 NFL Draft Thread

Chris Carter:

"I would take Jameis Winston with the 1st pick. You can't teach what he has."

"Jameis Winston is ready to play tomorrow (in the NFL). Mariota, I believe will be a good pro but he has to be with the right team. It's going to take time for him to be ready so he can grow into a pure passer."

(On Jameis' INT's) "Jameis has a horrific ankle injury. Wait til the bowl game because in the bowl game he's going to be a different guy (referring to him being healed up)."

(On his off field concerns) "He did some really stupid and immature things. He's trying not to be immature. He's a fun loving guy but he's going to realize, 'I'm a franchise QB and I can't do some of these things.' But he's not a bad person and I believe he can be your franchise QB."


Mike Golic:

"What separates it for me is who can throw in the pocket. I don't care how much you can move and run, it's how you can throw from the pocket. And Jameis Winston, I know he has 17 INT's, but I'm taking him throwing from the pocket right now."

"I'm already getting Mariota fans saying, '38-2 (TD's vs INT's) vs Winston's 24-17.' Listen, I get it. Some of the throws Winston makes he hangs onto the ball and tries to make that impossible throw and it costs him. Listen, and he's going to turn the ball over in the NFL too. But I trust him in the pocket more than Mariota. I'm not saying Mariota won't be a good pro when he gets there, like CC said, depending on the situation he gets in. But what I'm saying is I would take Jameis Winston because in my opinion he can throw it better from the pocket, and I would trust him more in the pocket."


Mike Greenberg:

"He did more for himself than any other QB because they were going to lose if their QB didn't play perfectly. I thought they were going to lose that game the entire night, and Jameis Winston didn't let them lose."

Welcome Pointdexter .

football51 wrote:Welcome Pointdexter .

I'm slow to change but the collection of posters here is just better. Happy to be here.

On another note, it should be said that CC was also extremely high on Amari Cooper saying he was in the same class as Randy Moss, AJ Green, and Julio Jones.

In my opinion, it's easy. If Winston is there when we pick then you take him. Absent any off the field shenanigans, he WILL be our franchise guy for the next 10+ years. You don't pass that up. If he's not there, you take Cooper (righting last year's wrong of passing on all that WR talent) and then look to grab an underrated Bryce Petty in round 2.

Ultimately though we draft Winston and then get him some skill help in round 2. I love Duke Johnson out of Miami. He's one of the 10 best players in college football right now. Another intriguing player would be Rashad Greene. He has amazing chemistry with Jameis and is actually the better of the two FSU receivers between him and Kelvin Benjamin. He might slip due to being a bit undersized.

good to see you pointdexter. glad you made it over here

i respect your opinion, but i'm just really scared of the idea of Winston being thrust into the NY market (and all the media attention that entails) and being looked at as the "savior" the minute he is picked by the Jets (hypothetically speaking).

now I'm not gonna pretend to know the kid or what makes him tick. but to me, leaving the on-field stuff aside for a second, it has disaster waiting to happen written all over it.

Pointdexter wrote:Chris Carter:

"I would take Jameis Winston with the 1st pick.  You can't teach what he has."

"Jameis Winston is ready to play tomorrow (in the NFL).  Mariota, I believe will be a good pro but he has to be with the right team.  It's going to take time for him to be ready so he can grow into a pure passer."

(On Jameis' INT's)  "Jameis has a horrific ankle injury.  Wait til the bowl game because in the bowl game he's going to be a different guy (referring to him being healed up)."

(On his off field concerns)  "He did some really stupid and immature things.  He's trying not to be immature.  He's a fun loving guy but he's going to realize, 'I'm a franchise QB and I can't do some of these things.'  But he's not a bad person and I believe he can be your franchise QB."


Mike Golic:

"What separates it for me is who can throw in the pocket.  I don't care how much you can move and run, it's how you can throw from the pocket.  And Jameis Winston, I know he has 17 INT's, but I'm taking him throwing from the pocket right now."

"I'm already getting Mariota fans saying, '38-2 (TD's vs INT's) vs Winston's 24-17.'  Listen, I get it.  Some of the throws Winston makes he hangs onto the ball and tries to make that impossible throw and it costs him.  Listen, and he's going to turn the ball over in the NFL too.  But I trust him in the pocket more than Mariota.  I'm not saying Mariota won't be a good pro when he gets there, like CC said, depending on the situation he gets in.  But what I'm saying is I would take Jameis Winston because in my opinion he can throw it better from the pocket, and I would trust him more in the pocket."


Mike Greenberg:

"He did more for himself than any other QB because they were going to lose if their QB didn't play perfectly.  I thought they were going to lose that game the entire night, and Jameis Winston didn't let them lose."

...the same guys who fell in love with...EJ Manuel...

Which Jimbo QB has looked good in the NFL? Ponder, Manuel, Winston, insert name, insert name, insert name...

Looks like a USC situation IMO.

Welcome, point!

I'm not nearly as high on Winston. Part of it is the off-field issues, but I really hate his throws. If Geno benefited from an athletic WR corps, Winston did so just as much. 

I'm certainly not an expert on QB mechanics, but I hate his ball.

SackExchange wrote:Welcome, point!

I'm not nearly as high on Winston. Part of it is the off-field issues, but I really hate his throws. If Geno benefited from an athletic WR corps, Winston did so just as much. 

I'm certainly not an expert on QB mechanics, but I hate his ball.

You mean the fact he cant throw a spiral on balls that travel 10 yards in the air...

...or that fact of 1 of every 10 passes beyond 5 yards is an INT?

Which part don't you like? And that's playing in college.

Hobson,

I've said it before, I can't blame ANYONE who is scared off by the character issues with Jameis.  I just think his upside of being a can't-miss franchise talent more than merits the risk of his character.  He has shown a remarkable ability to block out criticism and be mentally tough, which is a must in NY.  He loves the big spotlight and he thrives in it.  Again, it warrants the risk.  (On a side note, the more I hear about the rape allegation, the more it is clear it was bunk.  The woman's story has more holes than swiss cheese.  And this certainly wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened.  i.e Duke lacrosse).

55,

I think I should have some credibility with you by about now.  Last year at this time you were telling everyone how slow, clumsy, and uncoordinated Kelvin Benjamin was.  2 years ago I was telling everyone what a bust EJ Manuel was going to be.  I think I've earned my stripes to earn the benefit of the doubt, at least with FSU players.  

In case anyone is interested, these 3 are all big time players coming from FSU this year:

1) Jameis Winston
2) Rashad Green, WR  (FSU's all-time leading receiver)
3) Cam Newton, LT/C  (Voted the ACC's top lineman two years in a row.  Interestingly, this year alone, Cam was 1st team tackle and 3rd team center, which has to be a 1st to be voted all league at 2 different positions on the OL.)

I think Eddie Goldman and Tre Jackson also have excellent opportunities to be good pros.  But the first 3 are the guys I would stake my reputation (whatever that's worth) on.

Superman55 wrote:

SackExchange wrote:Welcome, point!

I'm not nearly as high on Winston. Part of it is the off-field issues, but I really hate his throws. If Geno benefited from an athletic WR corps, Winston did so just as much. 

I'm certainly not an expert on QB mechanics, but I hate his ball.

You mean the fact he cant throw a spiral on balls that travel 10 yards in the air...

...or that fact of 1 of every 10 passes beyond 5 yards is an INT?

Which part don't you like?  And that's playing in college.

That's perhaps a more direct way of saying it, but yes. That.

SackExchange wrote:Welcome, point!

I'm not nearly as high on Winston. Part of it is the off-field issues, but I really hate his throws. If Geno benefited from an athletic WR corps, Winston did so just as much. 

I'm certainly not an expert on QB mechanics, but I hate his ball.

Fair question. Truth is he throws a beautiful ball but has played most of this season on a severe ankle sprain. He has not been able to plant properly and that has led to many of his problems this season. As Carter says, wait til the bowl game and evaluate him off that. He will be the healthiest he's been all season and I think you might see his passes look a little (or a lot) crisper.

Also, please ignore 55. My experience is the guy teeters between heavy embellishment and blatant fabrication to make his point. It's quite sad.

Pointdexter, what was the story with the shoplifting incident with Winston? What explanation did he give?

Here's another fan of Winston.








http://turnonthejets.com/2014/12/nfl-draft-inside-green-room-volume-2/#more-25133

well the bowl game/semifinal does set up nicely to watch mariotta and winston go head-to-head

Superman55 wrote:

SackExchange wrote:I can understand your point, Seaver. At the same time, the only guarantee that a guy won't be a franchise QB for you is if you don't draft him.

I disagree with you about Mariota, in that I think he does have more of a prototype pocket passer makeup. His size, arm, and vision all translate to that. To me, he seems like a pocket passer with legs. Does that mean he will become a franchise QB in the NFL? Not necessarily. But the Jets won't land a franchise QB if they wait around in the hopes of a once-in-a-decade guy like Andrew Luck being available to them.

I hate those stupid once in a decade comments: like Luck, Ryan, Big Ben, Rodgers, Rivers, and Eli weren't all drafted within a 10 year window (03-13).

It's more like once every 2 years. Some feel Wilson already belongs in that group (not me)...and a few think Flacco, Romo, Cam Newton, and Stafford belong in that group (again, not me).

But if you feel those are franchise QBs (please dont mention names like Dalton or Kapernick)...it's almost 1 per year.

I will use your list in regard to my franchise QB point. The only QBs you listed I would call franchise are Rodgers, Luck and Big Ben most of the rest not all are QBs I would deem worthy of a high 1st rd pick but not a franchise QB

football51 wrote:Pointdexter, what was the story with the shoplifting incident with Winston? What explanation did he give?

Interesting story. He got his crab legs from the deli, a tub of butter, and headed towards the check-out lines in the front of the store. Apparently, on his way, he was recognized by students and stopped to give autographs. In a rush to get away after signing for a few minutes, so he wasn't stuck there for an hour, he grabbed the crab legs and headed for the door. In his haste he even forgot to pick up the butter he had set down. The interesting twist was he actually walked out the door talking with a TPD officer who Publix hires to do security (this was actually verified on camera). After getting home he realized he had forgot the butter and to pay. He made the decision not to return and settle up and ultimately was charged.

Now do I believe his recounting of the story? Nah, not completely.

I think he knew he hadn't paid but I he has played up the "big star in a little town" deal all season. I think his head has got big and feels all the rules don't apply to him and he deserves special treatment. In short, he has been an entitled, immature brat at times this year. But he's not a thug and I think that's the key. He just needs to grow up.

For the record, he served a couple days of community service and the charges were in turn dropped. If anyone talks about his "lengthy rap sheet", they are full of bull. Truth is the guy has nothing on his rap sheet. It is clean.

Thanks Pointdexter.

In the name of civility, I will only label that spin on Jameis Winston's character as...um..."canonically advocatory"

SackExchange wrote:I can understand your point, Seaver. At the same time, the only guarantee that a guy won't be a franchise QB for you is if you don't draft him.

I disagree with you about Mariota, in that I think he does have more of a prototype pocket passer makeup. His size, arm, and vision all translate to that. To me, he seems like a pocket passer with legs. Does that mean he will become a franchise QB in the NFL? Not necessarily. But the Jets won't land a franchise QB if they wait around in the hopes of a once-in-a-decade guy like Andrew Luck being available to them.

Physical measurables have been the biggest trap year after year. None of it guarantees success, so to make a case for Mariota based on that alone is very dangerous. History is littered with plenty of examples of those with same or better physical attributes. Smarts isn't a guarantee either - in other words there is a distinct difference between general IQ and football IQ. Ryan Fitzpatrick is perhaps the smartest QB today, yet his play defies logic at times.

Point I'm making is that what is unknown about Mariota at this point is enough to topple what we do know. The story is not complete. He has shown nothing to date (no fault of his own) to suggest he is a pro style QB. He will get that chance, but for now it is a complete unknown.

As for the legs......they may be as big a detriment to development as some perceive an asset. Mobility is one thing, but only in measured amounts. The urge to flee - to make something happen - can also stunt the growth to stay in the pocket and scan for a better option downfield (see Rod Hundley). The challenge is especially daunting for a QB coming from the spread system. He has been molded to instinctively flee when the first pass option is not there - not only not there in the general sense of covered, but in the sense of the size passing window Mariota perceives he needs. If he cannot balance the mental aspect of hanging in there to trust he threads the needle vs run for safety.......he'll never be the guy. I am not saying he cannot do it, I am only pointing out the VAST unknown about this player that he doesn't get to address in the type offense he runs.

Between now and the draft, much more will become evident about Mariota and the others....and he may very well be the guy that defies the critics and overcomes the lack of exposure to be a franchise QB.

From Rich Cimini's espnnewyork.com chat today.




Miles Morales @DocPunkRock
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@RichCimini #jetsmail if mariotta or Winston isn't Andrew luck/franchise qb material, should they draft a wr or corner?
11:37 AM - 12 Dec 2014







@RichCimini: Hold everything. Just because Mel Kiper Jr., says they're not franchise quarterbacks doesn't mean it's true. First of all, I'm starting to hate the "franchise quarterback" label, because what does that really mean? Here's my take: If you need a quarterback and a good one is available, you take him. I haven't done a lot of homework yet on Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston -- i.e. talking to scouts and personnel people -- but if Mariota is available when the Jets are picking, it seems like a no-brainer. By the way, he's No. 1 on Mel's Big Board. It's more complicated with Winston because of his off-the-field baggage. In terms of trading up, I'd have to think twice about that. The cost could be prohibitive. If not a quarterback, you'd have to think hard about wide receiver Amari Cooper. Right now, there are no corners deemed worthy of a top-10 pick.

Seth Walder ✔ @SethWalderNYDN
By my calculations, Jets have a stronger SOS than the Redskins, and therefore currently have the 6th overall pick in the draft. #nyj

If we're picking 6th, we could still have a chance at Cooper but would also put one of the top 2 offensive linemen in play assuming 2 QBs and the DT go in the top 5

Bucs Jameis Winston QB
Titans Marcus Mariotta QB
Jaguars Leonard Williams DT
Raiders Brandon Scherrf OT
Redskins Randy Gregory DE
Jets Amari Cooper WR, Andrus Peat OT, Shane Ray DE, or Trae Waynes CB

Sarge wrote:Bucs Jameis Winston QB
Titans Marcus Mariotta QB
Jaguars Leonard Williams DT
Raiders Brandon Scherrf OT
Redskins Randy Gregory DE
Jets Amari Cooper WR, Andrus Peat OT, Shane Ray DE, or Trae Waynes CB

I don't think Scherff goes quite that high. I think with the investment in Howard, Raiders wont be taking a rookie that likes starts (and stays) at RT. I love him as a prospect and potential replacement for Gia for us, but not the Raiders.

Raiders adding Cooper to go with Carr makes a lot of sense...

Peat or Scherff to us makes a lot of sense.

I still think this draft feels like the year we took Brick, with the QBs at the top of that draft being Lienart, Young, and Cutler...

I could see the Raiders taking Cooper. Ditto for Jacksonville. We could easily be staring at a DE, DT or CB situation at #6.

Are there any draft eligible underclassmen that haven't yet declared who could change the top of the board?
BTW - after watching yesterday's game and the season in general, our entire right side of the OL needs to be replaced.  Between the penalties and poor pass blocking, I would love a stud OT in the draft who plays RT until Brick retires.  I think/hope we have Colon's replacement in Dozier.