Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

Atljet60 wrote: Kristian Dyer @KristianRDyer

Walking off the field, a fan jeers at Geno. Smith responds with "F×ck you." #Jets #Nyjets

Real mature.

Atljet60 wrote:As it stands we're no more than 2 games out of the division playing only 1 game in the conference, none in our division. This season isn't lost.

it is if we continue to play Geno.

NYJETSDAN16 wrote:

Atljet60 wrote:As it stands we're no more than 2 games out of the division playing only 1 game in the conference, none in our division. This season isn't lost.

it is if we continue to play Geno.

If Geno was the only problem I might be in agreement. However I don't believe that...therefore I can't. But I do see your opinion voiced in this regard here and the other place. That we'll find out at this years conclusion. From what I'm reading the coaches are standing by him. We may never know this year what Vick might have done.

Brian Costello @BrianCoz

This is the 8th time the Jets have lost 3 games in a row under Rex. They have never lost 4 in a row.

The kid's have their backs against the wall. Let's see how they fight out of this hole.

Atljet60 wrote:

NYJETSDAN16 wrote:

Atljet60 wrote:As it stands we're no more than 2 games out of the division playing only 1 game in the conference, none in our division. This season isn't lost.

it is if we continue to play Geno.

If Geno was the only problem I might be in agreement. However I don't believe that...therefore I can't. But I do see your opinion voiced in this regard here and the other place. That we'll find out at this years conclusion. From what I'm reading the coaches are standing by him. We may never know this year what Vick might have done.

Agreed. Geno has been bad at times, but the defense has been disappointing. Every time they tried to get back in the game today, the defense gave it back.

You guys are giving up 24 points per game, - gotta knock that down or find a way to score

Another tough loss, and the typical emotional, blame game begins. Like clockwork.

I have been strong in my defense of Geno, but he's making it hard lately. Two more turnovers are indefensible. The kid simply has to stop these mistakes. They're killing us.

I will say this. The pass protection has been spotty. I was watching Geno drop back today, and noticed that he's got about four seconds to throw it. Pressure was there all day. That's on the o-line.

Defensively, we're struggling in the secondary. I'm not going to be one of those people who assume that a GM could've fixed this via free agency, because I don't subscribe to such simplistic assumptions. The Raiders tried to solve all their problems in free agency this year, on both sides of the ball, and they suck. Big 0-4 to show for it.

Our problems don't lie with Idzik. Out problems lie with questionable coaching and lack of execution. Big spending, Vegas-minded GM'ing wouldn't have solved these problems.

Blindsidebrick wrote:Another tough loss, and the typical emotional, blame game begins. Like clockwork.

I have been strong in my defense of Geno, but he's making it hard lately. Two more turnovers are indefensible. The kid simply has to stop these mistakes. They're killing us.

I will say this. The pass protection has been spotty. I was watching Geno drop back today, and noticed that he's got about four seconds to throw it. Pressure was there all day. That's on the o-line.

Defensively, we're struggling in the secondary. I'm not going to be one of those people who assume that a GM could've fixed this via free agency, because I don't subscribe to such simplistic assumptions. The Raiders tried to solve all their problems in free agency this year, on both sides of the ball, and they suck. Big 0-4 to show for it.

Our problems don't lie with Idzik. Out problems lie with questionable coaching and lack of execution. Big spending, Vegas-minded GM'ing wouldn't have solved these problems.

Agree on Geno. He's looking a little panicked out there and making some very dubious decisions. The OL is not giving him enough time, but he's got to do more out there. I am not seeing the rollouts, the throws on the run, that became kind of a hallmark of his last year. He's backpedalling (as if you can beckpedal faster than a DL can rush toward you?), and either getting sacked/stripped or chucking it up for grabs. He has to buy time, he has to make plays with his legs, and he has to see the field better. I don't think he's going through his reads anywhere near fast enough. He also seems to lack any kind of peripheral vision. I thought at the end of preseason the game had slowed down for him, but now it looks like it has sped up again. Very disappointed in his development.

MM does not seem to have a good plan B when plan A hits tough sledding. Teams adjust to stuff you do when it is working. We were pounding the ball down their throats on that first possession, and while we only got 3 out of it, the game plan seemed pretty simple. But Detroit adjusted, and we failed to come up with anything in response. The most frustrating possession for me was that last one, when we had 2nd and 1, ran some stupid play that they blew up for a 1 yard loss, then failed to get anything on 3rd down, and punted, never to see the ball again. How do we not convert on 2nd and 1??? That was the game right there, and MM's inability to accomplish something very small but crucial.

As for the secondary, with all due respect, in your effort to avoid a simplistic kneejerk reaction to the problems in there, you have blithely absolved Idzik of any responsibility for the situation. Sure, free agency alone won't solve problems, but you have rejected the very obvious (to some of us) fact that a baseline talent level has to be there. Coaching is part of the equation (and what the Raiders seem to lack), and I don't think we're at a Raiders-level WRT coaching on that side of the ball. So how do you account for the fact we can't stop anyone on 3rd and long? We can't cover these receivers. I will suggest there is something in the scheme that isn't working as well, but I think it starts with the players, and the ones we have are not very good. Pryor has been a massive disappointment so far. AA has done his best but he lacks the raw athleticism and refined technique to handle today's pro WR's, and Walls is the only other CB out there worth a damn. How many INT's do we have so far? Forced fumbles? Any?

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:Another tough loss, and the typical emotional, blame game begins. Like clockwork.

I have been strong in my defense of Geno, but he's making it hard lately. Two more turnovers are indefensible. The kid simply has to stop these mistakes. They're killing us.

I will say this. The pass protection has been spotty. I was watching Geno drop back today, and noticed that he's got about four seconds to throw it. Pressure was there all day. That's on the o-line.

Defensively, we're struggling in the secondary. I'm not going to be one of those people who assume that a GM could've fixed this via free agency, because I don't subscribe to such simplistic assumptions. The Raiders tried to solve all their problems in free agency this year, on both sides of the ball, and they suck. Big 0-4 to show for it.

Our problems don't lie with Idzik. Out problems lie with questionable coaching and lack of execution. Big spending, Vegas-minded GM'ing wouldn't have solved these problems.

Agree on Geno. He's looking a little panicked out there and making some very dubious decisions. The OL is not giving him enough time, but he's got to do more out there. I am not seeing the rollouts, the throws on the run, that became kind of a hallmark of his last year. He's backpedalling (as if you can beckpedal faster than a DL can rush toward you?), and either getting sacked/stripped or chucking it up for grabs. He has to buy time, he has to make plays with his legs, and he has to see the field better. I don't think he's going through his reads anywhere near fast enough. He also seems to lack any kind of peripheral vision. I thought at the end of preseason the game had slowed down for him, but now it looks like it has sped up again. Very disappointed in his development.

MM does not seem to have a good plan B when plan A hits tough sledding. Teams adjust to stuff you do when it is working. We were pounding the ball down their throats on that first possession, and while we only got 3 out of it, the game plan seemed pretty simple. But Detroit adjusted, and we failed to come up with anything in response. The most frustrating possession for me was that last one, when we had 2nd and 1, ran some stupid play that they blew up for a 1 yard loss, then failed to get anything on 3rd down, and punted, never to see the ball again. How do we not convert on 2nd and 1??? That was the game right there, and MM's inability to accomplish something very small but crucial.

As for the secondary, with all due respect, in your effort to avoid a simplistic kneejerk reaction to the problems in there, you have blithely absolved Idzik of any responsibility for the situation. Sure, free agency alone won't solve problems, but you have rejected the very obvious (to some of us) fact that a baseline talent level has to be there. Coaching is part of the equation (and what the Raiders seem to lack), and I don't think we're at a Raiders-level WRT coaching on that side of the ball. So how do you account for the fact we can't stop anyone on 3rd and long? We can't cover these receivers. I will suggest there is something in the scheme that isn't working as well, but I think it starts with the players, and the ones we have are not very good. Pryor has been a massive disappointment so far. AA has done his best but he lacks the raw athleticism and refined technique to handle today's pro WR's, and Walls is the only other CB out there worth a damn. How many INT's do we have so far? Forced fumbles? Any?

First of all, I agree with the majority of what you said. But I don't buy into this theory that Idzik neglected certain positions in FA. As I've stated before, I think a lot of assumptions are being made about what Idzik did and didn't do in the offseason. One thing's certain, though: he did make an effort to court several higher profile CB's in FA, drafted McDougle, and was hoping Milliner would continue his progression from the last quarter of the last season. Obviously, bad luck worked against us there.

I'm not denying that the skill positions at WR and CB are sub par. I'm just trying to avoid the easy explanation, including putting way too much blame on a GM, which misses the mark in my eyes.

I can't see how we don't go 1-6. Crap!!!!!

Geno is the culprit right now...not just his turnovers but his QB skills altogether. His outburst after the game shows frustration and regression. It's easier for a young QB to wether a storm like this if he is playing in Buffalo, or Miami, Cleveland or one of those places but not here in NY.

Idzik has his plan, but after last seasons strong finish, having 12 draft picks, and a boatload of money, many expected more.

Atljet60 wrote: Brian Costello @BrianCoz

This is the 8th time the Jets have lost 3 games in a row under Rex. They have never lost 4 in a row.

Get ready for a new Milestone Rex. Geno & his continued disregard to protect the ball will have the Jets losing more than just 4 in a row.

danfran wrote:

Atljet60 wrote:

NYJETSDAN16 wrote:

Atljet60 wrote:As it stands we're no more than 2 games out of the division playing only 1 game in the conference, none in our division. This season isn't lost.

it is if we continue to play Geno.

If Geno was the only problem I might be in agreement. However I don't believe that...therefore I can't. But I do see your opinion voiced in this regard here and the other place. That we'll find out at this years conclusion. From what I'm reading the coaches are standing by him. We may never know this year what Vick might have done.

Agreed. Geno has been bad at times, but the defense has been disappointing. Every time they tried to get back in the game today, the defense gave it back.

Let's be honest here for a second. I'am sure there is plenty of blame to go around. Yet in this debate when the Offense goes 0-5 before half time with errant throws And/or over throws, what can a defense do in the 4rth quarter when they're gassed from being on the field over and over?

Geno isn't the only problem, but he is the main problem at 1-3.

Superman55 wrote:The kid's have their backs against the wall.  Let's see how they fight out of this hole.

lol, that's hysterical.  There is a reason why the guy dropped so far down the draft. Hadn't it been for the Jets selecting him, he'd would have gone in the 3rd.

Plus, him yelling out "F-U" to a fan yesterday was the icing on the cake.  I guess the scouting reports were right afterall about his immaturity. And you call the Idzik supporters "blind".

Tony Banks 2.0.

It's like many Jets fans are looking for a miracle while maintaining a self pride keeping Smith in there.
Sanchez sucked in '12, he already had 3 years under his belt yet god forbid if Rex took him out and replaced him with either McElroy or hell for that matter Tebow. Some fans would rather see a season go completely out the window with the same guy at the helm.
Ditto this year. Geno is obviously our main problem. The season is still young and a change can obviously be made to ignite this offense. The offense is anemic and just can't stay on the field.

It seems some fans just forget that some veteran QB's can do the job, regardless of what their past was.
Randall Cunningham, Vinny Testaverde, Trent DIlfer, Brad Johnson and why not Michael Vick?
He's been on the highest of high's and lowest of lows, just like the aforementioned QB's. Yet, people want to stick with a 2nd round Quarterback, who by the way we can live with if he gets benched. This franchises future isn't mortgaged on him by any means as it was with Mark Sanchez, who yes, you giove him opportunity upon opportunity because he was in fact a top 5 draft pick.

Benching Geno for a proven starter in this league who by the way had his best statistical season under our current OC, wouldn't be a bad idea if this team continues to struggle and we're still in this playoff race.

Geno is part of the problem for sure, but he is far from all of it. The Jets had just gone in for a score and had the Lions pinned deep. Then the defense gave up a 90 yard TD drive which turned the momentum around. It was huge. And why did that happen, our CBs couldn't make plays.

To make matters worse, and no seems to be talking about this - at the end of the game, the defense holds after we score to get within a TD. We get the ball back and it is 3rd and 2. We run some silly pass play to Ivory who drops it and we kick it away. Rex was asking the defense to hold them again, and there was no way that was going to happen. They were tired at that point. They were getting blown off the ball on the Lions final drive. With 3rd and two, that should have been 4 down territory. Try to win the game. You are 1-2, in danger of going 1-3 with three really good teams coming up. The Jets needed to win this game. That was not a good coaching decision.

danfran wrote:

Atljet60 wrote:

NYJETSDAN16 wrote:

Atljet60 wrote:As it stands we're no more than 2 games out of the division playing only 1 game in the conference, none in our division. This season isn't lost.

it is if we continue to play Geno.

If Geno was the only problem I might be in agreement. However I don't believe that...therefore I can't. But I do see your opinion voiced in this regard here and the other place. That we'll find out at this years conclusion. From what I'm reading the coaches are standing by him. We may never know this year what Vick might have done.

Agreed. Geno has been bad at times, but the defense has been disappointing. Every time they tried to get back in the game today, the defense gave it back.

I have to completely disagree with this. Take out the first drive of the game the O did nothing in the first half. 5 straight 3 and outs. Also Detroit scored zero points from the 2 geno turnovers. Now I agree our secondary is toast but this simple blanket statement that our D sucks as a few are saying is unfounded IMO.

LIJETFAN wrote:Geno is part of the problem for sure, but he is far from all of it.  The Jets had just gone in for a score and had the Lions pinned deep.  Then the defense gave up a 90 yard TD drive which turned the momentum around.  It was huge.  And why did that happen, our CBs couldn't make plays.  

To make matters worse, and no seems to be talking about this - at the end of the game, the defense holds after we score to get within a TD.  We get the ball back and it is 3rd and 2.  We run some silly pass play to Ivory who drops it and we kick it away.  Rex was asking the defense to hold them again, and there was no way that was going to happen.  They were tired at that point.  They were getting blown off the ball on the Lions final drive.  With 3rd and two, that should have been 4 down territory.  Try to win the game.  You are 1-2, in danger of going 1-3 with three really good teams coming up.  The Jets needed to win this game.  That was not a good coaching decision.  

That 3rd and two was the epitomy of having an inept QB. The Lions stacked the box on 2nd and one. They knew Geno would not boot leg out and get it himself. I do agree that we should have gone for it on 4rth down, yet it may show that Rex, underneath it all absolutley has no confidence in Geno when the game is on the line. Rex's stubborness to not make a switch will ultimatly cost him his job.

The defense atleast gave the offense one last shot holding them on the lions next to last drive. Yet let's be honest and i say this with all due respect:
Geno had all game to take back the lead or drive the team back into scoring positions. Though all we saw the ball sailing over WR's head or an easy dump off throw to Ivory in which he had plenty of real estate to catch and run, yet Geno threw the rock so far over his head not even giving him an opportunity to make a play on a 3rd down.

There is plenty of blame to go around. The defense isn't playing up to par, but they arent keeping us out of games either. If we had atleast decent play from our QB Geno Smith, we'd be 3-1 right now.

Yes, Geno has been turning it over a lot lately.

So let's instead give the ball to Michael Vick!

NYJETSDAN16 wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:Geno is part of the problem for sure, but he is far from all of it.  The Jets had just gone in for a score and had the Lions pinned deep.  Then the defense gave up a 90 yard TD drive which turned the momentum around.  It was huge.  And why did that happen, our CBs couldn't make plays.  

To make matters worse, and no seems to be talking about this - at the end of the game, the defense holds after we score to get within a TD.  We get the ball back and it is 3rd and 2.  We run some silly pass play to Ivory who drops it and we kick it away.  Rex was asking the defense to hold them again, and there was no way that was going to happen.  They were tired at that point.  They were getting blown off the ball on the Lions final drive.  With 3rd and two, that should have been 4 down territory.  Try to win the game.  You are 1-2, in danger of going 1-3 with three really good teams coming up.  The Jets needed to win this game.  That was not a good coaching decision.  

That 3rd and two was the epitomy of having an inept QB.  The Lions stacked the box on 2nd and one. They knew Geno would not boot leg out and get it himself.  I do agree that we should have gone for it on 4rth down, yet it may show that Rex, underneath it all absolutley has no confidence in Geno when the game is on the line. Rex's stubborness to not make a switch will ultimatly cost him his job.

The defense atleast gave the offense one last shot holding them on the lions next to last drive. Yet let's be honest and i say this with all due respect:
Geno had all game to take back the lead or drive the team back into scoring positions.  Though all we saw the ball sailing over WR's head or an easy dump off throw to Ivory in which he had plenty of real estate to catch and run, yet Geno threw the rock so far over his head not even giving him an opportunity to make a play on a 3rd down.

There is plenty of blame to go around. The defense isn't playing up to par, but they arent keeping us out of games either.  If we had atleast decent play from our QB Geno Smith, we'd be 3-1 right now.

If for better secondary play, we'd be 3-1. If Marty didn't change up game plans that were working, we'd be 3-1.

Despite your best efforts, it's not only Geno. It is definitely partly him, but not anywhere near solely him.

NYJETSDAN16 wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

Lakerfan1980 wrote:

SackExchange wrote:I don't know why Vick was brought in here, either. What Geno needs to learn, Vick can't teach him. He can't teach Geno about ball protection, since he has none himself.

If people are done with Geno, fine. I think it's premature. But if you are going to pull the plug on him in a lost cause of a season, at least go with Simms over Vick.

Vick is not an interception machine, makes good decisions when throwing the ball and is not afraid.  His problem is bad decisions running the ball and fumbling.  Simms won't get the call if Geno is benched(and he should be), Vick will and I have confidence if he is protected he will score touchdowns.....Vick sees Decker on that 3rd down play and has the courage to make the throw.

Double digit INTs in 5 of 7 seasons in which he started more than half the games. One season with a completion percentage over 60%. 9 or more fumbles in seven seasons.

His turnover problems are as much fumbles as they are INTs, but Dan's point was that he was sick of Geno being a turnover machine, and instead wanted to turn to Vick. I don't see how going from Geno to Vick eliminates the turnovers.

Point is, Geno may not be the long-term answer, but Vick definitely isn't.

I want to turn to Vick because he is a veteran. Something the Jets havent had at the back up position in a long time.  Vick is no rookie. He's been at the highest of high's and the lowest of low's.
Saying that, he had one of his best statistical seasons with our current O.C.  Stats can be thrown every where.  If that's the case on Vick then Vinny Testaverde should have never been succesful in a Jets uniform because he was one of the worst TD-Interception ratio QB when he was in Tampa.

All i'am saying is that Vick can spark this anemic offense.  We have at this point no production at the QB position with Geno.  Maybe if Vick has a chance, he can have one last stellar season instead of wasting a season in trying to develop a 2nd rounder who just doesn't get it.

To the argument of Sanchez getting 4 years and Geno 1.25.  Sanchez was a 1st rounder, Geno a 2nd.  It's like being the Panthers head coach after drafting Cam Newton and telling him, you have to wait your turn, we're still in the middle of trying to develop Jimmy Clausen.  
2nd rounders and 1st rounder QB's will have different length leashes. A coach can survive giving up on a 2nd round QB after year two.  Not a 1st rounder.  This is where Rex's future hangs in the balance.  Does he still feel Geno is the answer or will he just want to win this season placing Vick in, in which gives the team a better chance to win this year and maybe save Rex's job.

The team is 1-3 and still very much in line to make a run at the playoffs if a switch is made at QB. Yet if we stick with Geno, nothing will change.

Why go with a veteran if the season is lost? And even if the season isn't lost, more can be gained from playing the younger QB. This is NOT a win-now team! It's not!

And this incessant argument that because Geno is turning the ball over a lot, we should go with Vick is just moronic. Anyone...anyone...who has followed Vick's career has seen the turnover machine he has been, both with picks and fumbles.

In all my years on this and the old boards, I have never seen Dan root as hard against a Jet as he is against Geno.

SackExchange wrote:Yes, Geno has been turning it over a lot lately.

So let's instead give the ball to Michael Vick!

Vinny was a turn over machine as well, but he did pretty well here in NY. Just saying. Vick was brought in here to have a capable backup if things went sour with Mike.
Like i had said in the pre-season, Sometimes a young QB learns more on the bench then just being driven and rammed onto the field.

This is one good offense we have here. Excellent run game, decent receivers and a good offensive line. Geno at this point has made this offense inept.
Who knows, maybe Mike Vick can provide a spark for this team to garner some wins and be competitive. We have a legit back up. It's not like having Tebow.

SackExchange wrote:In all my years on this and the old boards, I have never seen Dan root as hard against a Jet as he is against Geno.

With all due respect, have you seen any improvement in Geno's game for him to start another game?
I gave Geno the benefit of the doubt, but the guy is god aweful. Vick would atleast give the Jets some sort of offense that would resemble some sort of respectibility.