2014 Draft

Superman55 wrote:

cysporsche wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

cysporsche wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

Metjetgal wrote:Pretty unimpressed with Pryor.

Hard to stomach this thread.

We drafted a bunch of players who didn't help us at all...but they're really, really, really good because i'm a jets fan and they were drafted by the jets.

As Damien woody said last weekend, looking around the league at how amazing this rookie class looks only shows how poor the jets players are from this draft; either that, or we drafted all the slow kids.


As for Pryor, so far it looks like we drafted a box safety #18 with top 10 talent still on the board including the best safety in the draft, Deone Buchannon.  Pryor may turn into a cam Chancellor, I hope so...but right now, he looks like the safety version of Kyle Wilson.

55, Don't you ever get tired of talking out of both sides of your mouth ? You wanted Pryor & Amaro, and got your panties in a knot because we picked McDougle instead of Moncrief. No neither draft is perfect, but why beat a dead horse by constantly nagging about the past. If you think you are a better GM, might I suggest you update your resume and send it to Woody or Charlie Casserly for review.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Sack loved Stephen Hill when we drafted him, now he doesn't, guess he talks out both sides of his mouth.

The entire board loved the first two years of Sanchez, now they don't, guess the while board talks out of both sides of their mouth but Nick.

People change their mind over time...you should know that as someone who said Cam Newton is better thanTom Brady...do you still feel that is accurate or will your respond out of the other side of your mouth?

It's okay to admit being wrong.  I was wrong about Geno, I even liked the Idzik hire at the time, I now feel 2 years later they aren't the jets future...just like Stephen Hill and Mark Sanchez aren't, even if I hoped they were like everyone else.

55, For the last time because you are wearing me down, " You asked me if I was starting a new team today, would I pick Cam Newton or Tom Brady, and I chose Cam because he's 24 not pushing 40 with wobbly knees, and a hot wife wanting him to come home / palace with her and the Brady kids ! I'd choose Cam. He get's the whole Bank of America Stadium going with his enthusiasm & love of the game. I wish Jameis Winston had half the charisma !

Go Jets...Cyborg

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, that's the other side of your mouth I was looking for.  You said starting this year Cam would start passing Brady and I said Brady at 65 will be a better QB than Cam who still has horrible footwork and utilizes a simplified dumbed down offensive system.

As I said, Cy, it's okay to admit you're wrong.  Let it out.  Admit being wrong for the first time. At your age, this shouldn't be such a challenge.

Kevin, Who on this board actually gives a $hit what you have to say, you have ruined your credibility on this board with your negative / combative attitude and your rude smart ass mouth ! No one cares about Cam Newton on this board, so give it a rest.

Merry Christmas ...Cyborg

Brian Costello
‏@BrianCoz
Mel Kiper has both Calvin Pryor and Jace Amaro on his all-rookie team #nyj

Easy, guys. There is zero reason for this board to be like the scout one. Let's all take a breath with the attacks.

I wonder if Milliner & McDougle start next year and do well, or Pryor stands out @ his natural position of SS, or if Shaq Evans or Quincy Enunwa look good @ WR, or Trevor Reilly or IK Enemkpali are our starting OLB, with Aboushi & Dozier starting @ guard, will the Idzik haters finally admit that the 12 player draft did not suck as bad as criticized ?

As of now 11/12 picks are on NFL rosters, and it was Rex & Marty that ended up letting these players hit the street.

I think when the smoke clears, and people start looking realistically @ Idzik's 2 drafts, his free agent signings, trades, and getting our cap back under control, that they may realize, he was really not that bad of GM after all.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Is that Moncreif looking absolutely awesome?

cysporsche wrote:I wonder if Milliner & McDougle start next year and do well, or Pryor stands out @ his natural position of SS, or if Shaq Evans or Quincy Enunwa look good @ WR, or Trevor Reilly or IK Enemkpali are our starting OLB, with Aboushi & Dozier starting @ guard, will the Idzik haters finally admit that the 12 player draft did not suck as bad as criticized ?

As of now 11/12 picks are on NFL rosters, and it was Rex & Marty that ended up letting these players hit the street.

I think when the smoke clears, and people start looking realistically @ Idzik's 2 drafts, his free agent signings, trades, and getting our cap back under control, that they may realize, he was really not that bad of GM after all.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Awful lot of "ifs" for that to happen, Cy.

GratefulJet wrote:

cysporsche wrote:I wonder if Milliner & McDougle start next year and do well, or Pryor stands out @ his natural position of SS, or if Shaq Evans or Quincy Enunwa look good @ WR, or Trevor Reilly or IK Enemkpali are our starting OLB, with Aboushi & Dozier starting @ guard, will the Idzik haters finally admit that the 12 player draft did not suck as bad as criticized ?

As of now 11/12 picks are on NFL rosters, and it was Rex & Marty that ended up letting these players hit the street.

I think when the smoke clears, and people start looking realistically @ Idzik's 2 drafts, his free agent signings, trades, and getting our cap back under control, that they may realize, he was really not that bad of GM after all.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Awful lot of "ifs" for that to happen, Cy.

The reason for the ifs, GMs can't be judged fairly this soon. If he was given the time GMs needs those ifs would be definite statements either confirming he screwed up or he was successful.

GratefulJet wrote:

cysporsche wrote:I wonder if Milliner & McDougle start next year and do well, or Pryor stands out @ his natural position of SS, or if Shaq Evans or Quincy Enunwa look good @ WR, or Trevor Reilly or IK Enemkpali are our starting OLB, with Aboushi & Dozier starting @ guard, will the Idzik haters finally admit that the 12 player draft did not suck as bad as criticized ?

As of now 11/12 picks are on NFL rosters, and it was Rex & Marty that ended up letting these players hit the street.

I think when the smoke clears, and people start looking realistically @ Idzik's 2 drafts, his free agent signings, trades, and getting our cap back under control, that they may realize, he was really not that bad of GM after all.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Awful lot of "ifs" for that to happen, Cy.

You should stop here before even more excuses accumulate.  Those who secretly adore Idzik will pretend every position in the NfL is like QB and takes years to develop...just to make Idzik's case.

Meanwhile, the Raiders don't have the same issues with their rookie class, and one of the pics was a QB...somehow the raiders don't need the same excuse, but Idzik does.  Pathetic.

Dallas rebuilt their oline and defense behind rookies...vut Idzik apparently only drafted guys that needed years and years to develop. Glad we targeted the slow kids.

Superman55 wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

cysporsche wrote:I wonder if Milliner & McDougle start next year and do well, or Pryor stands out @ his natural position of SS, or if Shaq Evans or Quincy Enunwa look good @ WR, or Trevor Reilly or IK Enemkpali are our starting OLB, with Aboushi & Dozier starting @ guard, will the Idzik haters finally admit that the 12 player draft did not suck as bad as criticized ?

As of now 11/12 picks are on NFL rosters, and it was Rex & Marty that ended up letting these players hit the street.

I think when the smoke clears, and people start looking realistically @ Idzik's 2 drafts, his free agent signings, trades, and getting our cap back under control, that they may realize, he was really not that bad of GM after all.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Awful lot of "ifs" for that to happen, Cy.

You should stop here before even more excuses accumulate.  Those who secretly adore Idzik will pretend every position in the NfL is like QB and takes years to develop...just to make Idzik's case.

Meanwhile, the Raiders don't have the same issues with their rookie class, and one of the pics was a QB...somehow the raiders don't need the same excuse, but Idzik does.  Pathetic.

Dallas rebuilt their oline and defense behind rookies...vut Idzik apparently only drafted guys that needed years and years to develop.  Glad we targeted the slow kids.

Do you know anyone on this site who "secretly adores" Idzik? I don't.

I've been pretty consistent with saying that while there are moronic reactionary Jets fans out there, they aren't on this board. You seem to double down with this idea that some posters here think that Idzik is a genius, all because they say the jury is still out on many of his decisions.

Superman55 wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

cysporsche wrote:I wonder if Milliner & McDougle start next year and do well, or Pryor stands out @ his natural position of SS, or if Shaq Evans or Quincy Enunwa look good @ WR, or Trevor Reilly or IK Enemkpali are our starting OLB, with Aboushi & Dozier starting @ guard, will the Idzik haters finally admit that the 12 player draft did not suck as bad as criticized ?

As of now 11/12 picks are on NFL rosters, and it was Rex & Marty that ended up letting these players hit the street.

I think when the smoke clears, and people start looking realistically @ Idzik's 2 drafts, his free agent signings, trades, and getting our cap back under control, that they may realize, he was really not that bad of GM after all.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Awful lot of "ifs" for that to happen, Cy.

You should stop here before even more excuses accumulate.  Those who secretly adore Idzik will pretend every position in the NfL is like QB and takes years to develop...just to make Idzik's case.

Meanwhile, the Raiders don't have the same issues with their rookie class, and one of the pics was a QB...somehow the raiders don't need the same excuse, but Idzik does.  Pathetic.

Dallas rebuilt their oline and defense behind rookies...vut Idzik apparently only drafted guys that needed years and years to develop.  Glad we targeted the slow kids.

I will respond to this because my response to this was posted above this.

I was not high on the Idzik signing. I am in no way saying he would have been a guaranteed successful long term GM.

What I have said and will continue to be believe and this is no excuse just a fact. It takes more than 1 or 2 years to properly evaluate players at any position. Injured players especially can't be evaluated. Anyone who thinks they know for a fact what these players will become has not observed how players develop over time in this league.

IMHO Idzik did enough good things other than the draft taking over in a bad situation to deserve to see how things played out a little longer.

Nick - how many more draft classes did you want to look like the last 2?

You in another post said you respect professional opinions more than reporter/writers...Westhoff said Milliner couldnt start for most colleges...

Shaq Evans was on the roster bubble and it was noted McDougle made no plays in practice, Geno is Geno, Winters is Winters, and Amaro may be something or may continue to struggle with drops...

Jets haven't drafted a pro bowler since Revis...how long do you trust Idzik to break that streak, 5, 10, 15 years of McDougles running around (or not running around, we seemed to only draft CBs with injury concerns)...or blame Rex for playing a safety drafted #18 in coverage...hello, if you're a safety taken rd 1, you need to be able to cover...box safties go 118, not 18...

If I was an owner, sound draft strategies and execution would be required, not just trading for talent like Mike T. Why fire Mike T if the only thing Idzik was good at was trading for Ivory and Harvin; hell, should have just kept Mike T then.

It will be nice to have a GM one day that can evaluate unknown talent.

NickSINYC wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

cysporsche wrote:I wonder if Milliner & McDougle start next year and do well, or Pryor stands out @ his natural position of SS, or if Shaq Evans or Quincy Enunwa look good @ WR, or Trevor Reilly or IK Enemkpali are our starting OLB, with Aboushi & Dozier starting @ guard, will the Idzik haters finally admit that the 12 player draft did not suck as bad as criticized ?

As of now 11/12 picks are on NFL rosters, and it was Rex & Marty that ended up letting these players hit the street.

I think when the smoke clears, and people start looking realistically @ Idzik's 2 drafts, his free agent signings, trades, and getting our cap back under control, that they may realize, he was really not that bad of GM after all.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Awful lot of "ifs" for that to happen, Cy.

The reason for the ifs,  GMs can't be judged fairly this soon. If he was given the time GMs needs those ifs would be definite statements either confirming he screwed up or he was successful.

Actually, I completely (and respectfully) disagree. It's clear as day that the 2014 draft was a disaster. You really think Calvin Pryor was the BPA at #18 in the whole draft? He didn't even address a major need and has been awful in his role--AA could have played that position and played it better. Heck, Rontez Miles could have given us what we got out of Pryor. What was the marginal value of that pick? Amaro was good value, but after that it was reach city. The fact a few of those guys might eventually be contributors is really not meaningful. He had 12 picks! If we eventually get contributions out of 4-5 of them, that's going to be about the best case scenario--and that's still pretty poor.

Yesterday the Ravens started 4 rookies, and they're moving on in the playoffs. By mid-November they already had 7 rookies who had 95 or more snaps. Do we even have 3 rookies who played that many snaps all season? I don't need 3-4 years to know that was a good draft. Who is standing out from the 2013 class, aside from Sheldon? Anyone? Geno is a starter, but he is standing out for all the wrong reasons. 20 picks in two years, and we have 4 regulars to show for it, 5 if you include Milliner, and all of them were 1st or 2nd round picks.

You build a team through the draft, but it's not as if those draft picks have 3-4 years to make the active roster. The lack of impact players picked through the draft by Idzik is stunning. He even lost two of his picks to other teams because we cut them--pure roster mismanagement. He got Ivory for a 4th round pick. One of his better moves, but is it really all that great? I mean, is Ivory even a 1000-yard rusher? (No, he is not.) His style of running, while fun to watch, makes him too injury prone to grind out that many yards in a season. Durability concerns were why the Saints were willing to trade him, and they have proved out. He's a committee member, not a bell cow.

Sure, it might take us 3-4 years to fully assess a draft, but when it goes tits up as completely as his first two have, you don't need 3-4 years to know it isn't working out. Do we need 3-4 years to evaluate Mike Goodsen or Dimitri Patterson? Decker looks like his best FA signing so far, but he was hardly a bargain. What other acquisitions has Idzik made that proved to be good deals, let alone steals? Breno Giacomini? Marginal to poor signing. He kind of sucked, actually. Dawan Landry? No. David Nelson? Please. At CB it was a revolving door of street signings with Williams and Adams looking like potential depth guys but that was after 2x that many guys busting, and the fact this process took place in season was an embarrassment and strong contributing factor to our record. That was a complete shyte show.

No, I don't see at all that 3-4 years is necessary to know that Idzik was a terrible GM. He was bad enough that it became obvious midway through his 2nd year. We may not know for 3-4 years just how terrible he was, but he was terrible without a doubt. The only thing unfair would have been subjecting this team to another 2 years of his rank incompetence.

Superman55 wrote:Nick - how many more draft classes did you want to look like the last 2?

You in another post said you respect professional opinions more than reporter/writers...Westhoff said Milliner couldnt start for most colleges...

Shaq Evans was on the roster bubble and it was noted McDougle made no plays in practice, Geno is Geno, Winters is Winters, and Amaro may be something or may continue to struggle with drops...

Jets haven't drafted a pro bowler since Revis...how long do you trust Idzik to break that streak, 5, 10, 15 years of McDougles running around (or not running around, we seemed to only draft CBs with injury concerns)...or blame Rex for playing a safety drafted #18 in coverage...hello, if you're a safety taken rd 1, you need to be able to cover...box safties go 118, not 18...

If I was an owner, sound draft strategies and execution would be required, not just trading for talent like Mike T.  Why fire Mike T if the only thing Idzik was good at was trading for Ivory and Harvin; hell, should have just kept Mike T then.

It will be nice to have a GM one day that can evaluate unknown talent.

You keep using that Pro Bowl stat, but don't you think that both Mo and Richardson have proven they are Pro Bowl quality, and have honestly been somewhat shafted in not making the team?

Or are they just two more bad picks from a horrible franchise?

I will just say this.

We will know for a fact in a couple of years and not just speculation on either side just what Idziks' drafted players eventually become whether still as a Jet or on some other team. Then we can say it was a good move or a mistake to fire him so soon.

SE - we traded one of the best players in the NFL for Richardson...we didn't win that trade. I know a low of people will feel we did, but when you trade a hall of famer in his prime, and get back a player who is maybe top 6-10 in return...well, Revis is still top 3, might be for 2-3 more years, well, it's like grading the Champ Bailey for Clinton Portis, in this scenario, we got Clinton Portis.

I love Sheldon Richardson, but there's a Sheldon Richardson in every draft...there were 2 players better than Sheldon in the Wilkerson draft, wAsnt there.

We traded a shutdown CB for a stud dline man, dline man are found annually, including a rookie out playing Sheldon this year if you noticed Mr Donald (who is going to be a stud).

I don't include Sheldon in my draft evaluation, because we gave up a once in a lifetime talent to get him. The Jets as an organization never had a Revis ever, until they landed Revis...and we traded him for Sheldon in a tough spot.

I wont say we won or lost that deal, but we'll see a lot more Sheldon's on the roster before we see another Revis.

We traded Revis because we could never match his salary demands and Tannenbaum ignorantly signed away our rights to franchise him. We didn't just decide to get rid of him for no reason. Idzik got the best deal he could. The "Idzik got rid of Revis" narrative is ridiculous. Anyone who seriously believes that is either grossly misinformed or pathologically insane. Idzik is gone, I don't give a rats behind about him, but some of you folks defy logic with some of the stuff you come up with.

Sarge wrote:We traded Revis because we could never match his salary demands and Tannenbaum ignorantly signed away our rights to franchise him.  We didn't just decide to get rid of him for no reason.  Idzik got the best deal he could.  The "Idzik got rid of Revis" narrative is ridiculous.  Anyone who seriously believes that is either grossly misinformed or pathologically insane. Idzik is gone, I don't give a rats behind about him, but some of you folks defy logic with some of the stuff you come up with.

You can't evaluate the Richardson pick fully without considering what you gave up to get it.

Superman55 wrote:Nick - how many more draft classes did you want to look like the last 2?

You in another post said you respect professional opinions more than reporter/writers...Westhoff said Milliner couldnt start for most colleges...

i'm guessing this is not an accurate quote. milliner was a unanimous all american, finalist for the nagurski and thorpe awards, and starter on a national championship team loaded with talent. are we seriously to believe that while he was good enough to start at alabama, he wasn't good enough to start for most other schools??? if this is an accurate comment, i'm starting to question the ability of westhoff to judge talent. i'm gonna side with nick saban on that one...

Superman55 wrote:SE - we traded one of the best players in the NFL for Richardson...we didn't win that trade.  I know a low of people will feel we did, but when you trade a hall of famer in his prime, and get back a player who is maybe top 6-10 in return...well, Revis is still top 3, might be for 2-3 more years, well, it's like grading the Champ Bailey for Clinton Portis, in this scenario, we got Clinton Portis.

I love Sheldon Richardson, but there's a Sheldon Richardson in every draft...there were 2 players better than Sheldon in the Wilkerson draft, wAsnt there.

We traded a shutdown CB for a stud dline man, dline man are found annually, including a rookie out playing Sheldon this year if you noticed Mr Donald (who is going to be a stud).

I don't include Sheldon in my draft evaluation, because we gave up a once in a lifetime talent to get him.  The Jets as an organization never had a Revis ever, until they landed Revis...and we traded him for Sheldon in a tough spot.  

I wont say we won or lost that deal, but we'll see a lot more Sheldon's on the roster before we see another Revis.

must be nice to operate in a vacuum and not factor in things like salary cap space and revis' annual contract issues.

of course, i'm gonna hazard a guess this is another instance of 55 liking something before he hated something...

hobson54 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Nick - how many more draft classes did you want to look like the last 2?

You in another post said you respect professional opinions more than reporter/writers...Westhoff said Milliner couldnt start for most colleges...

i'm guessing this is not an accurate quote.  milliner was a unanimous all american, finalist for the nagurski and thorpe awards, and starter on a national championship team loaded with talent.  are we seriously to believe that while he was good enough to start at alabama, he wasn't good enough to start for most other schools???  if this is an accurate comment, i'm starting to question the ability of westhoff to judge talent.  i'm gonna side with nick saban on that one...

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/07/mike_westhoff_tweaks_jets_cb_dee_milliner_im_not_sure_hes_the_best_cornerback_up_here_in_cortland.html

Here's his quote...

I'm still a results oriented guy...and I'd like to see more results from Milliner.  I'm not calling him a bad pick yet, but if he doesn't show some consistency next year, or gets hurt for the 37th time, I'll feel he's a bad pick.

You and Saban can be Milliner believers, I'll be a believer when he actually does something productive consistently.

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Nick - how many more draft classes did you want to look like the last 2?

You in another post said you respect professional opinions more than reporter/writers...Westhoff said Milliner couldnt start for most colleges...

i'm guessing this is not an accurate quote.  milliner was a unanimous all american, finalist for the nagurski and thorpe awards, and starter on a national championship team loaded with talent.  are we seriously to believe that while he was good enough to start at alabama, he wasn't good enough to start for most other schools???  if this is an accurate comment, i'm starting to question the ability of westhoff to judge talent.  i'm gonna side with nick saban on that one...

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/07/mike_westhoff_tweaks_jets_cb_dee_milliner_im_not_sure_hes_the_best_cornerback_up_here_in_cortland.html

Here's his quote...

I'm still a results oriented guy...and I'd like to see more results from Milliner.  I'm not calling him a bad pick yet, but if he doesn't show some consistency next year, or gets hurt for the 37th time, I'll feel he's a bad pick.

You and Saban can be Milliner believers, I'll be a believer when he actually does something productive consistently.

i'm starting to believe that they didn't teach reading comprehension at penn st, because nowhere in that article does westhoff say what you claimed he said. and furthermore, nowhere in my post do i say i'm a milliner believer. in fact, i didn't even offer an opinion on him. yet that doesn't stop you from making some straw man point about me and saban being believers.

are you at all capable of discussing things without resorting to stuff like that. it's always the extremes with you. if we don't bash someone, then we must be some groupie.

Superman55 wrote:

Sarge wrote:We traded Revis because we could never match his salary demands and Tannenbaum ignorantly signed away our rights to franchise him.  We didn't just decide to get rid of him for no reason.  Idzik got the best deal he could.  The "Idzik got rid of Revis" narrative is ridiculous.  Anyone who seriously believes that is either grossly misinformed or pathologically insane. Idzik is gone, I don't give a rats behind about him, but some of you folks defy logic with some of the stuff you come up with.

You can't evaluate the Richardson pick fully without considering what you gave up to get it.

We gave up 1 year of Revis coming off injury to get him. You think Tampa wishes they had taken Richardson instead of having Revis for 1 year? It's a no brainer

hobson54 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Nick - how many more draft classes did you want to look like the last 2?

You in another post said you respect professional opinions more than reporter/writers...Westhoff said Milliner couldnt start for most colleges...

i'm guessing this is not an accurate quote.  milliner was a unanimous all american, finalist for the nagurski and thorpe awards, and starter on a national championship team loaded with talent.  are we seriously to believe that while he was good enough to start at alabama, he wasn't good enough to start for most other schools???  if this is an accurate comment, i'm starting to question the ability of westhoff to judge talent.  i'm gonna side with nick saban on that one...

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/07/mike_westhoff_tweaks_jets_cb_dee_milliner_im_not_sure_hes_the_best_cornerback_up_here_in_cortland.html

Here's his quote...

I'm still a results oriented guy...and I'd like to see more results from Milliner.  I'm not calling him a bad pick yet, but if he doesn't show some consistency next year, or gets hurt for the 37th time, I'll feel he's a bad pick.

You and Saban can be Milliner believers, I'll be a believer when he actually does something productive consistently.

i'm starting to believe that they didn't teach reading comprehension at penn st, because nowhere in that article does westhoff say what you claimed he said.  and furthermore, nowhere in my post do i say i'm a milliner believer.  in fact, i didn't even offer an opinion on him.  yet that doesn't stop you from making some straw man point about me and saban being believers.

are you at all capable of discussing things without resorting to stuff like that.  it's always the extremes with you.  if we don't bash someone, then we must be some groupie.

I'd hope we could all address the posts and not reply with personal attacks. I'm disappointed you'd try to bait an argument with personal attacks rather than just sticking to the post and the thoughts within the post.

Pretty sure saying he wouldn't even be the best CB at Cortland University says a lot about his ability to be a starting CB at a more legit university, NFL team, etc...even if joking...it's implied, without being said directly.

He's not a fan, and a former NFL coach, if that means anything.

Alabama is not a legit university?

Sarge wrote:Alabama is not a legit university?

Westhoof said he wouldn't be the best CB at cortland University...not me.  Do you feel many people who arent the best CB at Cortland could start at Alabama?

Again, not my comment, and he was obviously half joking, but his point was, he was closer to a quality player at Cortland University level than NFL level.

Wait, and exactly how many defensive players from Alabama have been any good in the NFL anyway?

Fitzatrick, Kareem Jackson, Rolanda McLain, Milliner, the fat kid with 6 career tackles on the Ravens...who has been any good on defense from bama, Baron maybe?