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    hobson54
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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by hobson54 on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 18:49

    Superman55 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:Nick - how many more draft classes did you want to look like the last 2?

    You in another post said you respect professional opinions more than reporter/writers...Westhoff said Milliner couldnt start for most colleges...



    i'm guessing this is not an accurate quote.  milliner was a unanimous all american, finalist for the nagurski and thorpe awards, and starter on a national championship team loaded with talent.  are we seriously to believe that while he was good enough to start at alabama, he wasn't good enough to start for most other schools???  if this is an accurate comment, i'm starting to question the ability of westhoff to judge talent.  i'm gonna side with nick saban on that one...


    http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/07/mike_westhoff_tweaks_jets_cb_dee_milliner_im_not_sure_hes_the_best_cornerback_up_here_in_cortland.html

    Here's his quote...

    I'm still a results oriented guy...and I'd like to see more results from Milliner.  I'm not calling him a bad pick yet, but if he doesn't show some consistency next year, or gets hurt for the 37th time, I'll feel he's a bad pick.

    You and Saban can be Milliner believers, I'll be a believer when he actually does something productive consistently.


    i'm starting to believe that they didn't teach reading comprehension at penn st, because nowhere in that article does westhoff say what you claimed he said.  and furthermore, nowhere in my post do i say i'm a milliner believer.  in fact, i didn't even offer an opinion on him.  yet that doesn't stop you from making some straw man point about me and saban being believers.

    are you at all capable of discussing things without resorting to stuff like that.  it's always the extremes with you.  if we don't bash someone, then we must be some groupie.

    I'd hope we could all address the posts and not reply with personal attacks.  I'm disappointed you'd try to bait an argument with personal attacks rather than just sticking to the post and the thoughts within the post.

    Pretty sure saying he wouldn't even be the best CB at Cortland University says a lot about his ability to be a starting CB at a more legit university, NFL team, etc...even if joking...it's implied, without being said directly.

    He's not a fan, and a former NFL coach, if that means anything.


    he may not be a fan of milliner. that is fine. but he was not being serious when he said he wondered if he was even the best CB at cortland. you'd have to be pretty gullible to think that was a serious comment, especially when it was followed by the following:


    Westhoff has a dry sense of humor, and his shot at Milliner was obviously a joke. But Westhoff also used that line make a point about what he saw from Milliner on Wednesday.


    as to your call to civility, fine. how about you try it out yourself and not make snide comments at people who don't agree 100% with you.

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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by hobson54 on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 18:52

    Sarge wrote:Alabama is not a legit university?

    don't be silly. westhoff was obviously serious and his comment carries more weight than nick saban, every single voter for all american, and the people who pick the finalists for the nagurski (best defensive player in the NCAA) and jim thorpe (top defensive back) awards
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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by SackExchange on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 18:55

    Superman55 wrote:SE - we traded one of the best players in the NFL for Richardson...we didn't win that trade.  I know a low of people will feel we did, but when you trade a hall of famer in his prime, and get back a player who is maybe top 6-10 in return...well, Revis is still top 3, might be for 2-3 more years, well, it's like grading the Champ Bailey for Clinton Portis, in this scenario, we got Clinton Portis.

    I love Sheldon Richardson, but there's a Sheldon Richardson in every draft...there were 2 players better than Sheldon in the Wilkerson draft, wAsnt there. Wink

    We traded a shutdown CB for a stud dline man, dline man are found annually, including a rookie out playing Sheldon this year if you noticed Mr Donald (who is going to be a stud).

    I don't include Sheldon in my draft evaluation, because we gave up a once in a lifetime talent to get him.  The Jets as an organization never had a Revis ever, until they landed Revis...and we traded him for Sheldon in a tough spot.  

    I wont say we won or lost that deal, but we'll see a lot more Sheldon's on the roster before we see another Revis.
    1. The point was about Idzik's drafting ability, was it not? Not about how the pick was acquired.

    2. Revis was due for huge money, had already held out multiple times, and had just torn up his knee. We don't know how much prime he still had.

    As for your calls for an end to personal attacks in your subsequent comments, you can't bash others and then hide behind the notion of civility when someone else fires back at you.
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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by Superman55 on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 18:57

    hobson54 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:Nick - how many more draft classes did you want to look like the last 2?

    You in another post said you respect professional opinions more than reporter/writers...Westhoff said Milliner couldnt start for most colleges...



    i'm guessing this is not an accurate quote.  milliner was a unanimous all american, finalist for the nagurski and thorpe awards, and starter on a national championship team loaded with talent.  are we seriously to believe that while he was good enough to start at alabama, he wasn't good enough to start for most other schools???  if this is an accurate comment, i'm starting to question the ability of westhoff to judge talent.  i'm gonna side with nick saban on that one...


    http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/07/mike_westhoff_tweaks_jets_cb_dee_milliner_im_not_sure_hes_the_best_cornerback_up_here_in_cortland.html

    Here's his quote...

    I'm still a results oriented guy...and I'd like to see more results from Milliner.  I'm not calling him a bad pick yet, but if he doesn't show some consistency next year, or gets hurt for the 37th time, I'll feel he's a bad pick.

    You and Saban can be Milliner believers, I'll be a believer when he actually does something productive consistently.


    i'm starting to believe that they didn't teach reading comprehension at penn st, because nowhere in that article does westhoff say what you claimed he said.  and furthermore, nowhere in my post do i say i'm a milliner believer.  in fact, i didn't even offer an opinion on him.  yet that doesn't stop you from making some straw man point about me and saban being believers.

    are you at all capable of discussing things without resorting to stuff like that.  it's always the extremes with you.  if we don't bash someone, then we must be some groupie.

    I'd hope we could all address the posts and not reply with personal attacks.  I'm disappointed you'd try to bait an argument with personal attacks rather than just sticking to the post and the thoughts within the post.

    Pretty sure saying he wouldn't even be the best CB at Cortland University says a lot about his ability to be a starting CB at a more legit university, NFL team, etc...even if joking...it's implied, without being said directly.

    He's not a fan, and a former NFL coach, if that means anything.


    he may not be a fan of milliner.  that is fine.  but he was not being serious when he said he wondered if he was even the best CB at cortland.  you'd have to be pretty gullible to think that was a serious comment, especially when it was followed by the following:


    Westhoff has a dry sense of humor, and his shot at Milliner was obviously a joke. But Westhoff also used that line make a point about what he saw from Milliner on Wednesday.


    as to your call to civility, fine.  how about you try it out yourself and not make snide comments at people who don't agree 100% with you.

    My post says he was joking, but it was a comparison...not a very nice one.

    Thanks for the recommendation.
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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by Superman55 on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 19:03

    SackExchange wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:SE - we traded one of the best players in the NFL for Richardson...we didn't win that trade.  I know a low of people will feel we did, but when you trade a hall of famer in his prime, and get back a player who is maybe top 6-10 in return...well, Revis is still top 3, might be for 2-3 more years, well, it's like grading the Champ Bailey for Clinton Portis, in this scenario, we got Clinton Portis.

    I love Sheldon Richardson, but there's a Sheldon Richardson in every draft...there were 2 players better than Sheldon in the Wilkerson draft, wAsnt there. Wink

    We traded a shutdown CB for a stud dline man, dline man are found annually, including a rookie out playing Sheldon this year if you noticed Mr Donald (who is going to be a stud).

    I don't include Sheldon in my draft evaluation, because we gave up a once in a lifetime talent to get him.  The Jets as an organization never had a Revis ever, until they landed Revis...and we traded him for Sheldon in a tough spot.  

    I wont say we won or lost that deal, but we'll see a lot more Sheldon's on the roster before we see another Revis.
    1. The point was about Idzik's drafting ability, was it not? Not about how the pick was acquired.

    2. Revis was due for huge money, had already held out multiple times, and had just torn up his knee. We don't know how much prime he still had.

    As for your calls for an end to personal attacks in your subsequent comments, you can't bash others and then hide behind the notion of civility when someone else fires back at you.

    So when you look at the Sammy Watkins pick by the Bills, its easy to say, he's a great player, so it was a great pick.

    By your theory, the Bills made a great pick in Sammy Watkins, and I'd agree, he's a good pick.

    However, big picture is Sammy Watkins cost the Bills 3 draft choices, including a 1 this year that will prevent them from drafting another QB, theior inability to draft another QB is a big reason Marrone left, because he will be evaluated based on a trade and QB situation he didnt agree with...now Marrone is gone and Polian isn't coming.

    So you can put on blinders and say, the Sammy Watkins pick was a good pick.

    Or you can say:

    The Bills traded Beckham at #9, Marrone, Bill Polian, and 2 more draft picks...for Sammy Watkins. Is it still a good pick?

    The Jets did the best they could to unload Revis...but big picture, it was the beginning of the downfall of our organization for rex and idzik (who never replaced revis in any way shape or form)...

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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by hobson54 on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 19:31

    Superman55 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:Nick - how many more draft classes did you want to look like the last 2?

    You in another post said you respect professional opinions more than reporter/writers...Westhoff said Milliner couldnt start for most colleges...



    i'm guessing this is not an accurate quote.  milliner was a unanimous all american, finalist for the nagurski and thorpe awards, and starter on a national championship team loaded with talent.  are we seriously to believe that while he was good enough to start at alabama, he wasn't good enough to start for most other schools???  if this is an accurate comment, i'm starting to question the ability of westhoff to judge talent.  i'm gonna side with nick saban on that one...


    http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/07/mike_westhoff_tweaks_jets_cb_dee_milliner_im_not_sure_hes_the_best_cornerback_up_here_in_cortland.html

    Here's his quote...

    I'm still a results oriented guy...and I'd like to see more results from Milliner.  I'm not calling him a bad pick yet, but if he doesn't show some consistency next year, or gets hurt for the 37th time, I'll feel he's a bad pick.

    You and Saban can be Milliner believers, I'll be a believer when he actually does something productive consistently.


    i'm starting to believe that they didn't teach reading comprehension at penn st, because nowhere in that article does westhoff say what you claimed he said.  and furthermore, nowhere in my post do i say i'm a milliner believer.  in fact, i didn't even offer an opinion on him.  yet that doesn't stop you from making some straw man point about me and saban being believers.

    are you at all capable of discussing things without resorting to stuff like that.  it's always the extremes with you.  if we don't bash someone, then we must be some groupie.

    I'd hope we could all address the posts and not reply with personal attacks.  I'm disappointed you'd try to bait an argument with personal attacks rather than just sticking to the post and the thoughts within the post.

    Pretty sure saying he wouldn't even be the best CB at Cortland University says a lot about his ability to be a starting CB at a more legit university, NFL team, etc...even if joking...it's implied, without being said directly.

    He's not a fan, and a former NFL coach, if that means anything.


    he may not be a fan of milliner.  that is fine.  but he was not being serious when he said he wondered if he was even the best CB at cortland.  you'd have to be pretty gullible to think that was a serious comment, especially when it was followed by the following:


    Westhoff has a dry sense of humor, and his shot at Milliner was obviously a joke. But Westhoff also used that line make a point about what he saw from Milliner on Wednesday.


    as to your call to civility, fine.  how about you try it out yourself and not make snide comments at people who don't agree 100% with you.

    My post says he was joking, but it was a comparison...not a very nice one.  

    Thanks for the recommendation.

    your first post in this chain says that westhoff said milliner couldn't start for most colleges, and then you added the link to justify your claim.

    perhaps if you got your facts straight the first time, or didn't double down on your claim with a link to an article that disproved what you said, we could have avoided this whole back-and-forth.

    no one disputed that westhoff wasn't a fan of milliner. i disputed your claim that westhoff said milliner couldn't start for most college teams.

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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by hobson54 on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 19:35

    i don't recall any opposition at the time to trading revis. and after richardson won DROY, i don't recall anyone saying then how it was a mistake to trade revis for him. seems to me this is more piling on for the sake of piling on the grave of idzik.
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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by Sarge on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 19:35

    [quote="Superman55]

    Fitzatrick, Kareem Jackson, Rolanda McLain, Milliner, the fat kid with 6 career tackles on the Ravens...who has been any good on defense from bama, Baron maybe?[/quote]

    Whose "Fitzatrick"? "Rolanda" started for Dallas today. Milliner was playing very well at the end of last year and got hurt this year. Donta Hightower is pretty good. Marcel Dareus is good. CJ Mosley made the Pro Bowl as a rookie. Courtney Upshaw started for Baltimore yesterday, Wallace Gilberry started for the Bengals today, Roman Harper started for Carolina, Rashad Johnson started for Arizona. Jarrett Johnson was a key player on Ravens super bowl team and played well for San Diego this year. Haha Clinton Dix looked good for Green Bay. Quinton Dial looked good for the the 49ers. Demeco Ryans has had a great NFL career. Kareem Jackson is so horrible that he has played in the NFL 5 years. I could go on

    I'm going to assume you aren't really that stupid but are just being a troll, so I will renew my efforts to ignore you despite this forum not having an ignore feature
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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by Sarge on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 19:42

    hobson54 wrote:i don't recall any opposition at the time to trading revis.  and after richardson won DROY, i don't recall anyone saying then how it was a mistake to trade revis for him.  seems to me this is more piling on for the sake of piling on the grave of idzik.

    Nailed it

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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by AFA2017 on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 19:59

    Mostly everyone like the Revis trade. Revis was a great CB, but it seemed every year Revis wanted to renegotiate for more money. Money that could go to a FA. Revis biggest problem was his Uncle Gilbert who just saw $$$$ instead of being a team type of guy.

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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by hobson54 on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 20:14

    Superman55 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:SE - we traded one of the best players in the NFL for Richardson...we didn't win that trade.  I know a low of people will feel we did, but when you trade a hall of famer in his prime, and get back a player who is maybe top 6-10 in return...well, Revis is still top 3, might be for 2-3 more years, well, it's like grading the Champ Bailey for Clinton Portis, in this scenario, we got Clinton Portis.

    I love Sheldon Richardson, but there's a Sheldon Richardson in every draft...there were 2 players better than Sheldon in the Wilkerson draft, wAsnt there. Wink

    We traded a shutdown CB for a stud dline man, dline man are found annually, including a rookie out playing Sheldon this year if you noticed Mr Donald (who is going to be a stud).

    I don't include Sheldon in my draft evaluation, because we gave up a once in a lifetime talent to get him.  The Jets as an organization never had a Revis ever, until they landed Revis...and we traded him for Sheldon in a tough spot.  

    I wont say we won or lost that deal, but we'll see a lot more Sheldon's on the roster before we see another Revis.
    1. The point was about Idzik's drafting ability, was it not? Not about how the pick was acquired.

    2. Revis was due for huge money, had already held out multiple times, and had just torn up his knee. We don't know how much prime he still had.

    As for your calls for an end to personal attacks in your subsequent comments, you can't bash others and then hide behind the notion of civility when someone else fires back at you.

    So when you look at the Sammy Watkins pick by the Bills, its easy to say, he's a great player, so it was a great pick.

    By your theory, the Bills made a great pick in Sammy Watkins, and I'd agree, he's a good pick.

    However, big picture is Sammy Watkins cost the Bills 3 draft choices, including a 1 this year that will prevent them from drafting another QB, theior inability to draft another QB is a big reason Marrone left, because he will be evaluated based on a trade and QB situation he didnt agree with...now Marrone is gone and Polian isn't coming.

    So you can put on blinders and say, the Sammy Watkins pick was a good pick.

    Or you can say:

    The Bills traded Beckham at #9, Marrone, Bill Polian, and 2 more draft picks...for Sammy Watkins.  Is it still a good pick?

    The Jets did the best they could to unload Revis...but big picture, it was the beginning of the downfall of our organization for rex and idzik (who never replaced revis in any way shape or form)...

    not sure the situations wrt the watkins trade and the revis trade/richardson pick are comparable.

    for the jets, it was two parts. part one - keep revis or trade him. and once they decided to trade him, get the best package you can. on april 21, 2013, they traded him to the bucs. 4 days later, they picked richardson with one of the picks they got for him. so it was two distinct decisions, made 4 days apart - trade revis and then use the first of the acquired picks to select richardson.

    for the bills, they made the decision to give up those draft picks specifically for the purpose of drafting watkins. so i think it makes more sense to evaluate the bills pick in the context of trading away all those picks.
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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by Superman55 on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 20:38

    hobson54 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:SE - we traded one of the best players in the NFL for Richardson...we didn't win that trade.  I know a low of people will feel we did, but when you trade a hall of famer in his prime, and get back a player who is maybe top 6-10 in return...well, Revis is still top 3, might be for 2-3 more years, well, it's like grading the Champ Bailey for Clinton Portis, in this scenario, we got Clinton Portis.

    I love Sheldon Richardson, but there's a Sheldon Richardson in every draft...there were 2 players better than Sheldon in the Wilkerson draft, wAsnt there. Wink

    We traded a shutdown CB for a stud dline man, dline man are found annually, including a rookie out playing Sheldon this year if you noticed Mr Donald (who is going to be a stud).

    I don't include Sheldon in my draft evaluation, because we gave up a once in a lifetime talent to get him.  The Jets as an organization never had a Revis ever, until they landed Revis...and we traded him for Sheldon in a tough spot.  

    I wont say we won or lost that deal, but we'll see a lot more Sheldon's on the roster before we see another Revis.
    1. The point was about Idzik's drafting ability, was it not? Not about how the pick was acquired.

    2. Revis was due for huge money, had already held out multiple times, and had just torn up his knee. We don't know how much prime he still had.

    As for your calls for an end to personal attacks in your subsequent comments, you can't bash others and then hide behind the notion of civility when someone else fires back at you.

    So when you look at the Sammy Watkins pick by the Bills, its easy to say, he's a great player, so it was a great pick.

    By your theory, the Bills made a great pick in Sammy Watkins, and I'd agree, he's a good pick.

    However, big picture is Sammy Watkins cost the Bills 3 draft choices, including a 1 this year that will prevent them from drafting another QB, theior inability to draft another QB is a big reason Marrone left, because he will be evaluated based on a trade and QB situation he didnt agree with...now Marrone is gone and Polian isn't coming.

    So you can put on blinders and say, the Sammy Watkins pick was a good pick.

    Or you can say:

    The Bills traded Beckham at #9, Marrone, Bill Polian, and 2 more draft picks...for Sammy Watkins.  Is it still a good pick?

    The Jets did the best they could to unload Revis...but big picture, it was the beginning of the downfall of our organization for rex and idzik (who never replaced revis in any way shape or form)...

    not sure the situations wrt the watkins trade and the revis trade/richardson pick are comparable.

    for the jets, it was two parts.  part one - keep revis or trade him.  and once they decided to trade him, get the best package you can.  on april 21, 2013, they traded him to the bucs.  4 days later, they picked richardson with one of the picks they got for him.  so it was two distinct decisions, made 4 days apart - trade revis and then use the first of the acquired picks to select richardson.

    for the bills, they made the decision to give up those draft picks specifically for the purpose of drafting watkins.  so i think it makes more sense to evaluate the bills pick in the context of trading away all those picks.

    I was comparing organizational impact.

    Trading Revis was the first step in a string of events that led to the breakdown of our secondary, that led to the breakdown of Rex's ability to coach his defense his way, which led to Rex and Idzik being canned.

    The Watkins trade led to the Bills not having the ammo to select a QB, alienating the coach who felt strongly against the trade, which led to Marrone leaving and Polian never coming (coach and GM leaving Buffalo).

    Watkins and Richardson are both good draft picks, no argument there, and will be fine NFL players, but the down stream impacts of the trades are very similar, IMO.

    If "one" wants to put blinders on and just say the Richardson and Watkins picks were good picks, I dont disagree. However, are they good picks for what was given up, I think that's up for debate...even if we got the best we could. We gave up a ton for what we got, which is a top 7-12 defensive lineman, for a top 1-3 CB.




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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by cysporsche on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 21:40

    I can't believe a few of the "arm chair GM's" on this board that constantly dwell in the past, playing hindsight 20/20 game. We need to focus on the future, not the past. J-E-T-S

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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by NickSINYC on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 21:52

    cysporsche wrote:I can't believe a few of the "arm chair GM's" on this board that constantly dwell in the past, playing hindsight 20/20 game. We need to focus on the future, not the past. J-E-T-S

    Go Jets...Cyborg

    Even if things don't go as I hope with the 2 hires I still have high hopes for next season. There are a lot of good candidates for both GM and HC on our list. There are a lot of combinations that will set us up well for the future. J-E-T-S

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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by Blindsidebrick on Sun 4 Jan 2015 - 22:59

    Sarge wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:i don't recall any opposition at the time to trading revis.  and after richardson won DROY, i don't recall anyone saying then how it was a mistake to trade revis for him.  seems to me this is more piling on for the sake of piling on the grave of idzik.

    Nailed it

    Crushed it. Nailed it. Destroyed it. Especially the last sentence.

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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by AFA2017 on Mon 5 Jan 2015 - 5:20

    Lets look at the whole picture. We traded Revis who had a torn ACL and would rehab it for 1 whole year. Lets face it, Revis was not the Revis we knew with the Bucs. So we traded Revis and his 1 yr rehab plus $16 mil in cap space for Richardson and a pick Idzik and Co. pissed away. That was a great trade. The sticking point is: Did we try to resign him after he became a FA or did Revis not want to come to the Jets. We will never know or we can believe some BS story from a Jets reporter who has no idea what happen but wants to make up a BS story. Personally I am glad Idzik is gone, but that was his one good move. I agree with Cy, Lets put Revis and Idzik in the past and lets look forward to our next GM, coach and 2015 draft.
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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by Superman55 on Tue 6 Jan 2015 - 0:23



    someone lost a bet (Kelvin Benjamin wearing an Oregon jersey)

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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by Marac on Tue 6 Jan 2015 - 9:29

    REVIS Can not be observed only as a player in these arguments comparing him with Richardson.......Everyone knows that REVIS is a once in a decade type player... The MONEY is the only reason that MEVIS is no longer a Jet...
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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by football51 on Tue 6 Jan 2015 - 16:16

    Superman55 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:SE - we traded one of the best players in the NFL for Richardson...we didn't win that trade.  I know a low of people will feel we did, but when you trade a hall of famer in his prime, and get back a player who is maybe top 6-10 in return...well, Revis is still top 3, might be for 2-3 more years, well, it's like grading the Champ Bailey for Clinton Portis, in this scenario, we got Clinton Portis.

    I love Sheldon Richardson, but there's a Sheldon Richardson in every draft...there were 2 players better than Sheldon in the Wilkerson draft, wAsnt there. Wink

    We traded a shutdown CB for a stud dline man, dline man are found annually, including a rookie out playing Sheldon this year if you noticed Mr Donald (who is going to be a stud).

    I don't include Sheldon in my draft evaluation, because we gave up a once in a lifetime talent to get him.  The Jets as an organization never had a Revis ever, until they landed Revis...and we traded him for Sheldon in a tough spot.  

    I wont say we won or lost that deal, but we'll see a lot more Sheldon's on the roster before we see another Revis.
    1. The point was about Idzik's drafting ability, was it not? Not about how the pick was acquired.

    2. Revis was due for huge money, had already held out multiple times, and had just torn up his knee. We don't know how much prime he still had.

    As for your calls for an end to personal attacks in your subsequent comments, you can't bash others and then hide behind the notion of civility when someone else fires back at you.

    So when you look at the Sammy Watkins pick by the Bills, its easy to say, he's a great player, so it was a great pick.

    By your theory, the Bills made a great pick in Sammy Watkins, and I'd agree, he's a good pick.

    However, big picture is Sammy Watkins cost the Bills 3 draft choices, including a 1 this year that will prevent them from drafting another QB, theior inability to draft another QB is a big reason Marrone left, because he will be evaluated based on a trade and QB situation he didnt agree with...now Marrone is gone and Polian isn't coming.

    So you can put on blinders and say, the Sammy Watkins pick was a good pick.

    Or you can say:

    The Bills traded Beckham at #9, Marrone, Bill Polian, and 2 more draft picks...for Sammy Watkins.  Is it still a good pick?

    The Jets did the best they could to unload Revis...but big picture, it was the beginning of the downfall of our organization for rex and idzik (who never replaced revis in any way shape or form)...

    not sure the situations wrt the watkins trade and the revis trade/richardson pick are comparable.

    for the jets, it was two parts.  part one - keep revis or trade him.  and once they decided to trade him, get the best package you can.  on april 21, 2013, they traded him to the bucs.  4 days later, they picked richardson with one of the picks they got for him.  so it was two distinct decisions, made 4 days apart - trade revis and then use the first of the acquired picks to select richardson.

    for the bills, they made the decision to give up those draft picks specifically for the purpose of drafting watkins.  so i think it makes more sense to evaluate the bills pick in the context of trading away all those picks.

    I was comparing organizational impact.

    Trading Revis was the first step in a string of events that led to the breakdown of our secondary, that led to the breakdown of Rex's ability to coach his defense his way, which led to Rex and Idzik being canned.

    The Watkins trade led to the Bills not having the ammo to select a QB, alienating the coach who felt strongly against the trade, which led to Marrone leaving and Polian never coming (coach and GM leaving Buffalo).

    Watkins and Richardson are both good draft picks, no argument there, and will be fine NFL players, but the down stream impacts of the trades are very similar, IMO.

    If "one" wants to put blinders on and just say the Richardson and Watkins picks were good picks, I dont disagree.  However, are they good picks for what was given up, I think that's up for debate...even if we got the best we could.  We gave up a ton for what we got, which is a top 7-12 defensive lineman, for a top 1-3 CB.






    Revis wasn't a top 1-3 cb after 2008. That was pre Rex and pre "Revis Island". Sheldon has only played two years. Richardson was PFF's #2 ranked 3-4 defensive lineman behind Watt. I could care less about a popularity contest(Pro Bowl). Richardson still hasn't reached his ceiling, and IMO, defensive lineman are more valuable than cb's. Add in the annual Revis drama with his contract, yes, I believe the Jets won on that exchange( I wonder if the Bucs feel like winners?).

    cysporsche
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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by cysporsche on Tue 6 Jan 2015 - 17:57

    Superman55 wrote:

    someone lost a bet (Kelvin Benjamin wearing an Oregon jersey)



    55, For someone who hates Charlotte, & the Panthers, you seem to talk about them a lot ? bounce

    Go Jets...Cyborg
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    Superman55
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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 9 Jan 2015 - 11:00

    Bridgewater poised to break out in '15?
    January, 9, 2015
    JAN 9
    9:23
    AM ET
    By Tom Carpenter | ESPN Insider
    01COMMENTS0EMAILPRINT
    In the first round of the 2014 NFL draft, Blake Bortles was the first quarterback taken (No. 3 overall), Johnny Manziel got all of the hype (going 22nd) and Teddy Bridgewater was the last player taken (32nd).

    Bridgewater continued to fly under the radar during his rookie campaign, as he began the season as a backup and played for a Minnesota Vikings team that never was in playoff contention and finished at 7-9.

    Nonetheless, he showed plenty of promise as the season rolled along, particularly during the final half-dozen games.

    "In the six games after the first Bears game [Week 11], the Vikings averaged 24 points and 342.5 yards per game. That’s about four more points and about 30 yards more than the team’s averages for the entire season," noted Mark Craig of the Star-Tribune.

    "In December, Bridgewater ranked first in the league in average yards per attempt (9.18), second in completion percentage (72.3) and fourth in passer rating (99.Cool. Meanwhile, the team ranked 12th in net yards and seventh in net passing in December."

    Myriad factors -- especially whether Adrian Peterson will return to the Vikes and whether Cordarrelle Patterson will rebound from his bust of a 2014 campaign -- will impact Bridgewater's progress in 2015. However, he showed enough as a rookie to create breakout buzz for his sophomore season as a pro:


    Field Yates
    Stay the course on Bridgewater's development
    "I thought the Vikings put on a clinic in terms of using and developing a rookie quarterback: Teddy Bridgewater didn't have to fight questions during the preseason about being the starter (that was Matt Cassel's gig) and Zimmer hired Norv Turner and his son Scott to oversee the offense and quarterbacks. Bridgewater slid into the starting role when Cassel was placed on injured reserve, and though the youngster had some rookie moments, he truly appeared to be taking one step forward each week. 2015 could be a breakthrough season for Bridgewater."
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    NickSINYC
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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by NickSINYC on Fri 23 Jan 2015 - 13:54

    Rich Cimini @RichCimini · 3m 3 minutes ago
    Mel Kiper Jr. re-grades Jets' 2014 draft: You will be reading a lot about the 2015 NFL draft in this space ove... http://tinyurl.com/kxxozgo
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    Superman55
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    Re: 2014 Draft

    Post by Superman55 on Tue 3 Feb 2015 - 10:09

    NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year votes:

    1) Aaron Donald DT Rams
    2) Mosley MLB Ravens
    3) Mack OLB/DE Raiders

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    Re: 2014 Draft

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