It's time as a fan base to be realistic

NYJETSDAN16 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

NYJETSDAN16 wrote:Great points all around fellas.  I just strongly feel this locker room has gotten out of control and Rex has no pulse anymore.  

Marcus Mariota would be a start and IMHO the light at the end of this tunnel.  The guy has all the attributes of Colin Kaepernick yet possibly more accurate and faster.  Coupled that with an offensive mind at head coach, i'd think the culture would start to change for the best.

As to SE point.  Maybe this was John's plan after all.  To strip the team down to it's core and rebuild with his own guy calling the shots.  He took a gamble with Geno, (and who knows maybe it clicks for him and the rest of the offensive line in the coming weeks) that is not paying off right now. Meaning Idzik is 100% to blame on that pick where he could have concentrated the pick on another position instead of the "Sexy" pick.

Idzik must up his game because having 12 picks contribute absolutley nothing with the exception of Amaro & Pryor means he may be neck deep in evaluating players.  Which concerns me about next years draft if we are indeed locked into the top 3.  Would he pull the trigger to move up to #1 and select a franchise QB or would he stand pat and select best player on the board.  With 12 picks in '14, he didn't trade not even one and 4 of whom is not on the roster anymore.
My main gripe with this past draft is that it was substantial with WR talent. None of the receivers taken with out picks have contributed. Heck the one that's on the PS, Enunwa is facing legal issues.

He seems to disregard injuires. 1st with Milliner, then Dex and Shaq.  These players have gotten injured before.  Why Reach? I know D-Mil had 1st round talent, but the way the draft was going, he would have fell to the 2nd round possibly. We missed out on an actual play maker in Cordarelle Paterson.

Idzik MUST up his game in 2015. Draft wise and Free agency or 2014 may happen again next season.

What do you think of Pryor and Amaro?  I think they both have upside, and I've liked what I've seem from Amaro's small sample size, but has Pryor really shown you (or us) anything?  Has he even made as much of an impact this year as Landry in 2014?

I can blame Amaro's development on the QB, because I think other than 1 big drop vs GB, he's made the most of his chances...but I haven't seen anything from Pryor that leads me to believe he's more than just another guy (JAG)...not yet anyway...

There are few sample sizes from Pryor like wrapping up a RB in the backfield after a big hit.  There are flashes here and there, but i will give him a pass due to him being a rookie.
IMHO, i would have rather chosen Brandin Cook.

soj wrote:

NYJETSDAN16 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

NYJETSDAN16 wrote:Great points all around fellas.  I just strongly feel this locker room has gotten out of control and Rex has no pulse anymore.  

Marcus Mariota would be a start and IMHO the light at the end of this tunnel.  The guy has all the attributes of Colin Kaepernick yet possibly more accurate and faster.  Coupled that with an offensive mind at head coach, i'd think the culture would start to change for the best.

As to SE point.  Maybe this was John's plan after all.  To strip the team down to it's core and rebuild with his own guy calling the shots.  He took a gamble with Geno, (and who knows maybe it clicks for him and the rest of the offensive line in the coming weeks) that is not paying off right now. Meaning Idzik is 100% to blame on that pick where he could have concentrated the pick on another position instead of the "Sexy" pick.

Idzik must up his game because having 12 picks contribute absolutley nothing with the exception of Amaro & Pryor means he may be neck deep in evaluating players.  Which concerns me about next years draft if we are indeed locked into the top 3.  Would he pull the trigger to move up to #1 and select a franchise QB or would he stand pat and select best player on the board.  With 12 picks in '14, he didn't trade not even one and 4 of whom is not on the roster anymore.
My main gripe with this past draft is that it was substantial with WR talent. None of the receivers taken with out picks have contributed. Heck the one that's on the PS, Enunwa is facing legal issues.

He seems to disregard injuires. 1st with Milliner, then Dex and Shaq.  These players have gotten injured before.  Why Reach? I know D-Mil had 1st round talent, but the way the draft was going, he would have fell to the 2nd round possibly. We missed out on an actual play maker in Cordarelle Paterson.

Idzik MUST up his game in 2015. Draft wise and Free agency or 2014 may happen again next season.

What do you think of Pryor and Amaro?  I think they both have upside, and I've liked what I've seem from Amaro's small sample size, but has Pryor really shown you (or us) anything?  Has he even made as much of an impact this year as Landry in 2014?

I can blame Amaro's development on the QB, because I think other than 1 big drop vs GB, he's made the most of his chances...but I haven't seen anything from Pryor that leads me to believe he's more than just another guy (JAG)...not yet anyway...

There are few sample sizes from Pryor like wrapping up a RB in the backfield after a big hit.  There are flashes here and there, but i will give him a pass due to him being a rookie.
IMHO, i would have rather chosen Brandin Cook.

I lost my comments... sigh.  Anyway the gist of what I said is I agree with the both of you (I wanted Dennard and Cooks would have made a nice draft) its time fr a change.   I have never advocated firing during the season but this team needs a wake up call... call it shock therapy but I would fire Rex now, bring back ex-ST coach (can not remember his name now, sigh) and put everyone on notice - everyone - to either perform or at the end of the year your out.  

One more comment on Pryor... he is a in the box SS an I feel that they put him there because of the secondary issues.  

hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

NCgreen12 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..

NCgreen12 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..

NCgreen12 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..

Superman55 wrote:

NCgreen12 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..

I dont think that's Hobson's point, and hell must of froze over if I am defending his opinion, but I think he's saying Idzik won't give up 3 1s, 3 2nd, a 3rd, and 3-5 mid rd picks for Mariotta like the Skins did...so if you feel it is Mariotta or bust, and you have to trade up and get Mariotta, get your pitchforks ready, because idzik wont pay a kings ransom of draft picks for any player...he's just too conservative to mortgage the future like that.  If we don't have the #1 pick, we're probably not getting him.  However, I'm not betting against us having the #1 pick just yet.

NCgreen12 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

NCgreen12 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..

I dont think that's Hobson's point, and hell must of froze over if I am defending his opinion, but I think he's saying Idzik won't give up 3 1s, 3 2nd, a 3rd, and 3-5 mid rd picks for Mariotta like the Skins did...so if you feel it is Mariotta or bust, and you have to trade up and get Mariotta, get your pitchforks ready, because idzik wont pay a kings ransom of draft picks for any player...he's just too conservative to mortgage the future like that.  If we don't have the #1 pick, we're probably not getting him.  However, I'm not betting against us having the #1 pick just yet.

So the deal was the Skins traded the same years number one (moving up 5 spots) two additional number ones and a second rounder. That is a lot for RGIII and but you wouldn't have said that during his first year or if the person to be drafted was Andrew Luck. So that would translate into Pryor, Milliner, Coples and Stephen Hill for a Franchise QB. If it was Andrew Luck you would make that deal seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Point being the possibility of a franchise QB is worth the risk and BTW - the trade for RGIII is maybe the most anyone has given up for a player.

Also I'd bet that deal was offered to the Colts and they turned it down to draft Luck so a possible franchise QB was not worth three 1st rounders. Smart move.

Superman55 wrote:

NCgreen12 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

NCgreen12 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..

I dont think that's Hobson's point, and hell must of froze over if I am defending his opinion, but I think he's saying Idzik won't give up 3 1s, 3 2nd, a 3rd, and 3-5 mid rd picks for Mariotta like the Skins did...so if you feel it is Mariotta or bust, and you have to trade up and get Mariotta, get your pitchforks ready, because idzik wont pay a kings ransom of draft picks for any player...he's just too conservative to mortgage the future like that.  If we don't have the #1 pick, we're probably not getting him.  However, I'm not betting against us having the #1 pick just yet.

So the deal was the Skins traded the same years number one (moving up 5 spots) two additional number ones and a second rounder. That is a lot for RGIII and but you wouldn't have said that during his first year or if the person to be drafted was Andrew Luck. So that would translate into Pryor, Milliner, Coples and Stephen Hill for a Franchise QB. If it was Andrew Luck you would make that deal seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Point being the possibility of a franchise QB is worth the risk and BTW - the trade for RGIII is maybe the most anyone has given up for a player.

Also I'd bet that deal was offered to the Colts and they turned it down to draft Luck so a possible franchise QB was not worth three 1st rounders. Smart move.

I agree with Hobson that Mariotta is more RG3/Wilson than Luck.  Do you think he's closer to RG3 or Luck?  I think I saw Dan say someplace he felt he was a sure fire franchise QB.  I'm not sure I feel that confident in him.  Not that he can't be, just not Luck.

NCgreen12 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

NCgreen12 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

NCgreen12 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..

I dont think that's Hobson's point, and hell must of froze over if I am defending his opinion, but I think he's saying Idzik won't give up 3 1s, 3 2nd, a 3rd, and 3-5 mid rd picks for Mariotta like the Skins did...so if you feel it is Mariotta or bust, and you have to trade up and get Mariotta, get your pitchforks ready, because idzik wont pay a kings ransom of draft picks for any player...he's just too conservative to mortgage the future like that.  If we don't have the #1 pick, we're probably not getting him.  However, I'm not betting against us having the #1 pick just yet.

So the deal was the Skins traded the same years number one (moving up 5 spots) two additional number ones and a second rounder. That is a lot for RGIII and but you wouldn't have said that during his first year or if the person to be drafted was Andrew Luck. So that would translate into Pryor, Milliner, Coples and Stephen Hill for a Franchise QB. If it was Andrew Luck you would make that deal seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Point being the possibility of a franchise QB is worth the risk and BTW - the trade for RGIII is maybe the most anyone has given up for a player.

Also I'd bet that deal was offered to the Colts and they turned it down to draft Luck so a possible franchise QB was not worth three 1st rounders. Smart move.

I agree with Hobson that Mariotta is more RG3/Wilson than Luck.  Do you think he's closer to RG3 or Luck?  I think I saw Dan say someplace he felt he was a sure fire franchise QB.  I'm not sure I feel that confident in him.  Not that he can't be, just not Luck.

I also think he's a bit closer to RGIII / Kapernick than Luck. He's played as expected this year and played pretty well against MSU (one of his tougher games).  I'm not categorically saying he's the consensus first pick yet as we all thought Luck would be, but at the end of the day if he's the guy you want and think he can be a franchise QB my point was I don't mind overpaying.  

trico990 wrote:I made some derogatory comments about Idzik last year that got me blasted on here. It's JMO guys and gals, but I think Idzik's plan was to get rid of Rex last year and bring in his own guy. The last month of the season, the players love of Rex, and most of all Woody's love for Rex tied Idzik's hands. Again JMO but I absolutely believe Idzik saboutaged this season and is making decisions that put Rex in a no win situation to make sure he can get rid of him this year. To Rex's credit he is keeping his mouth shut about what he is being put through, although when he writes the book it should be a doozy. As someone mentioned in another thread. When has Rex ever played a zone or cover 2? He hasn't. Idzik in one way or another has put him in that position and that's just one example. Rex is toast as HC here, and we'll see if that's for better or worse.

trico990 wrote:I made some derogatory comments about Idzik last year that got me blasted on here. It's JMO guys and gals, but I think Idzik's plan was to get rid of Rex last year and bring in his own guy. The last month of the season, the players love of Rex, and most of all Woody's love for Rex tied Idzik's hands. Again JMO but I absolutely believe Idzik saboutaged this season and is making decisions that put Rex in a no win situation to make sure he can get rid of him this year. To Rex's credit he is keeping his mouth shut about what he is being put through, although when he writes the book it should be a doozy. As someone mentioned in another thread. When has Rex ever played a zone or cover 2? He hasn't. Idzik in one way or another has put him in that position and that's just one example. Rex is toast as HC here, and we'll see if that's for better or worse.

hobson54 wrote:

trico990 wrote:I made some derogatory comments about Idzik last year that got me blasted on here. It's JMO guys and gals, but I think Idzik's plan was to get rid of Rex last year and bring in his own guy. The last month of the season, the players love of Rex, and most of all Woody's love for Rex tied Idzik's hands. Again JMO but I absolutely believe Idzik saboutaged this season and is making decisions that put Rex in a no win situation to make sure he can get rid of him this year. To Rex's credit he is keeping his mouth shut about what he is being put through, although when he writes the book it should be a doozy. As someone mentioned in another thread. When has Rex ever played a zone or cover 2? He hasn't. Idzik in one way or another has put him in that position and that's just one example. Rex is toast as HC here, and we'll see if that's for better or worse.

we discussed this idzik at length before, but with all due respect, i just can't see this being a viable scenario.

idzik is gonna be evaluated on his record.  woody isn't gonna give him forever to win, and if idzik's 1st two years are 8-8 and then a dreadful year (let's say 5-11 or perhaps worse) because he "sabotaged" rex, then he is looking at a very steep uphill climb in ensuring his long-term tenure.  if we play your scenario out, he better be 1000% sure in not only identifying, but also landing his preferred HC candidate, and he better get results quickly.  because woody isn't giving him an open-ended commitment.

there is nothing in the record to suggest idzik is not professional and well respected thoughout the league (well other than manish mehta claiming anonymous agents don't like idzik).  to think he would intentionally sabotage his own team, and possibly his own career, seems just too far fetched to give it much credence.

i understand this is just your opinion, and i respect your opinion.  but i can't see any basis in reality in this theory.

trico990 wrote:I made some derogatory comments about Idzik last year that got me blasted on here. It's JMO guys and gals, but I think Idzik's plan was to get rid of Rex last year and bring in his own guy. The last month of the season, the players love of Rex, and most of all Woody's love for Rex tied Idzik's hands. Again JMO but I absolutely believe Idzik saboutaged this season and is making decisions that put Rex in a no win situation to make sure he can get rid of him this year. To Rex's credit he is keeping his mouth shut about what he is being put through, although when he writes the book it should be a doozy. As someone mentioned in another thread. When has Rex ever played a zone or cover 2? He hasn't. Idzik in one way or another has put him in that position and that's just one example. Rex is toast as HC here, and we'll see if that's for better or worse.

JohnnyBaseball wrote:

trico990 wrote:I made some derogatory comments about Idzik last year that got me blasted on here. It's JMO guys and gals, but I think Idzik's plan was to get rid of Rex last year and bring in his own guy. The last month of the season, the players love of Rex, and most of all Woody's love for Rex tied Idzik's hands. Again JMO but I absolutely believe Idzik saboutaged this season and is making decisions that put Rex in a no win situation to make sure he can get rid of him this year. To Rex's credit he is keeping his mouth shut about what he is being put through, although when he writes the book it should be a doozy. As someone mentioned in another thread. When has Rex ever played a zone or cover 2? He hasn't. Idzik in one way or another has put him in that position and that's just one example. Rex is toast as HC here, and we'll see if that's for better or worse.

That's a pretty messed up thing to do, if true. And if evidence came to light that suggested that this WAS true, I would want Idzik fired more than any other executive who has ever worked for a team that I root for.

NYJETSDAN16 wrote:If anything, this past game versus the Broncos demonstrated that "WE ARE WHO WE THOUGHT WE ARE".

1-5 going on 3-13 will be the best thing for this franchise.