Dee Milliner

I just wish he was given time to properly heal his 1st injury. The high ankle sprain. Things spiraled downhill after he was rushed back too soon.

SackExchange wrote:This fan base will never give anyone the chance to actually put a plan in place.

Head coach? Calls for a firing after the first losing streak.

QB? Throws a few picks, calls for the backup.

GM? Every pick better start, or you start packing your bags.

Why anyone would want to come to the Jets and deal with the press and this fan base is beyond me.

Yeah, we should all just STFU and focus on the positives.

Quigley is starting to get into a groove (might be all the reps).

Geno didn't throw a pick 6 till after the 2 minute warning.

We held Manning to 3 TDs and less than 250 yards passing.

Geno Smith was our leading rusher (with all of 11 yards).

At 3.3 yards per play, we only averaged 2 yards per play less than Peyton Manning and the Broncos.

Despite having 13 drives to the Broncos' 12, we were outgained 359 to 204 yards (and outscored 31 to 17).

We have lots of draft picks sitting on the bench, just biding their time, who might be good enough to challenge these juggernauts in another few years.

We're 1 and 5, people. Count your blessings. It could be worse.

We beat a tough Oakland team.

Stop your complaining and show some patience, folks. This is all part of the plan.

I agree Sack. I should rephrase - I think the only coaches worthy of potentially staying onboard with a new HC would be Thurman and the D-line coach. I am not suggesting that there be a mandate to keep them. The new HC has to put his own staff together.

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Blown Achilles, out for the year.  We're in the market for a #1 QB, #1 CB, #1 WR, and pass rusher...like we were the day we hired Idzik...

A shot at Idzik. No way. Never saw that coming from you.


The criticism of the Milliner pick is lame. He was the top rated CB in that draft out of college football powerhouse Alabama. This label of him as "injury prone" is bogus. It's "I told ya so" nonsense.

Idzik brought in Decker and drafted Amaro. Both are good receivers. Both are upgrades in offense. That argument fails, too. Everyone's a genius after the fact.

We're reaching now. Let's go up top to find blame. When the majority of the blame lies with Rex and the players. Idzik isn't getting fired. So just exhale. Rex probably is though. And the Geno Smith experiment is on life support. Let's focus on where change is likely to occur.

Could not disagree more with this entire perspective. First off, calling Milliner injury-prone is completely valid, because he is injury prone. 55 has already documented this. He had 5 surgeries in college, so this was certainly something you could see coming. Some people are more resilient to the violence of football than others. Milliner has demonstrated that he is not resilient. This latest injury came without contact. He was rushing the extra point and ruptured his Achilles? Are you kidding me? He is a brittle bag of bones.

i was away all weekend and (fortunately) missed the game. unfortunately i log on to see milliner is out for the year.

while it is true that he had a number of surgeries in college, it is also true that he only missed 1 game in his 3 years in alabama. so i'm not sure the injury-prone label is applicable to a guy who missed 1 of 39 games before coming to the nfl.

hobson54 wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Blown Achilles, out for the year.  We're in the market for a #1 QB, #1 CB, #1 WR, and pass rusher...like we were the day we hired Idzik...

A shot at Idzik. No way. Never saw that coming from you.


The criticism of the Milliner pick is lame. He was the top rated CB in that draft out of college football powerhouse Alabama. This label of him as "injury prone" is bogus. It's "I told ya so" nonsense.

Idzik brought in Decker and drafted Amaro. Both are good receivers. Both are upgrades in offense. That argument fails, too. Everyone's a genius after the fact.

We're reaching now. Let's go up top to find blame. When the majority of the blame lies with Rex and the players. Idzik isn't getting fired. So just exhale. Rex probably is though. And the Geno Smith experiment is on life support. Let's focus on where change is likely to occur.

Could not disagree more with this entire perspective. First off, calling Milliner injury-prone is completely valid, because he is injury prone. 55 has already documented this. He had 5 surgeries in college, so this was certainly something you could see coming. Some people are more resilient to the violence of football than others. Milliner has demonstrated that he is not resilient. This latest injury came without contact. He was rushing the extra point and ruptured his Achilles? Are you kidding me? He is a brittle bag of bones.

i was away all weekend and (fortunately) missed the game.  unfortunately i log on to see milliner is out for the year.

while it is true that he had a number of surgeries in college, it is also true that he only missed 1 game in his 3 years in alabama.  so i'm not sure the injury-prone label is applicable to a guy who missed 1 of 39 games before coming to the nfl.

He had 5 surgeries at Bama, it is not "shocking" to anyone in his first two years of of being a Jet he has had surgery 6, 7, and 8...so maybe he lucked out and didn't miss many games at Bama...but we haven't been so lucky. Pretending Idzik had no way of knowing he was always injured at Bama is the same as saying, "Ik a blind Idzik supporter." You may not know it, but everything was there to know Milliner was injured often at Bama.

GratefulJet wrote:

SackExchange wrote:This fan base will never give anyone the chance to actually put a plan in place.

Head coach? Calls for a firing after the first losing streak.

QB? Throws a few picks, calls for the backup.

GM? Every pick better start, or you start packing your bags.

Why anyone would want to come to the Jets and deal with the press and this fan base is beyond me.

Yeah, we should all just STFU and focus on the positives.

Quigley is starting to get into a groove (might be all the reps).

Geno didn't throw a pick 6 till after the 2 minute warning.

We held Manning to 3 TDs and less than 250 yards passing.

Geno Smith was our leading rusher (with all of 11 yards).

At 3.3 yards per play, we only averaged 2 yards per play less than Peyton Manning and the Broncos.

Despite having 13 drives to the Broncos' 12, we were outgained 359 to 204 yards (and outscored 31 to 17).

We have lots of draft picks sitting on the bench, just biding their time, who might be good enough to challenge these juggernauts in another few years.

We're 1 and 5, people. Count your blessings. It could be worse.

We beat a tough Oakland team.

Stop your complaining and show some patience, folks. This is all part of the plan.

Congrats on completely missing the point.

I'm pretty sure I have been quite hard on the team. But you just conveniently ignored that.

My larger point is that this fan base will never get what it ultimately wants, a Super Bowl winner, because it will never allow for a step backward that would precede two steps forward. Every new regime is in a win-now mode. There is no opportunity for anyone to build, because the second the Jets have a rough stretch, people call for heads to roll.

Since ALL of your comments were about this year, you basically proved my point.

GratefulJet wrote:

SackExchange wrote:This fan base will never give anyone the chance to actually put a plan in place.

Head coach? Calls for a firing after the first losing streak.

QB? Throws a few picks, calls for the backup.

GM? Every pick better start, or you start packing your bags.

Why anyone would want to come to the Jets and deal with the press and this fan base is beyond me.

Yeah, we should all just STFU and focus on the positives.

Quigley is starting to get into a groove (might be all the reps).

Geno didn't throw a pick 6 till after the 2 minute warning.

We held Manning to 3 TDs and less than 250 yards passing.

Geno Smith was our leading rusher (with all of 11 yards).

At 3.3 yards per play, we only averaged 2 yards per play less than Peyton Manning and the Broncos.

Despite having 13 drives to the Broncos' 12, we were outgained 359 to 204 yards (and outscored 31 to 17).

We have lots of draft picks sitting on the bench, just biding their time, who might be good enough to challenge these juggernauts in another few years.

We're 1 and 5, people. Count your blessings. It could be worse.

We beat a tough Oakland team.

Stop your complaining and show some patience, folks. This is all part of the plan.

2 off seasons - 20 draft picks - $50 mill in cap space - and we have Decker, Amaro, Ivory, and Richardson to show for it...now we're starting over at ground zero.

The raiders showed growth and direction this weekend (with Reggie McKenzie and Tony Sparano), Jags have hope and direction for their future too, after 2 off seasons, 20 picks, and $50 mill to spend, no growth and direction for the Jets, just start over...and you, my friend, are being told, that's okay for wasting two seasons and becoming the new Raiders of the NFL; that's what Idzik has built in 2 season, a team to replace the Raiders as doormats of the NFL...everyone on this board is happy with that, so you're supposed to be...some people enjoy watching a loser (wonder why)...

Im glad the majority of the board loves what has been built these last two off seasons that has landed us where we are...but between me and you, it's okay to not have a loser mentality and accept wasting our time, cap money, and draft picks by building a loser product. It's okay to expect more, even if most Jets fans, especially those on this board, are okay with watching this quality of a product on Sundays and pretending idzik had nothing to do with taking over a 6-10 team and in 2 off seasons to build on that, giving us a product that will be lucky to win 6 games...

SackExchange wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

SackExchange wrote:This fan base will never give anyone the chance to actually put a plan in place.

Head coach? Calls for a firing after the first losing streak.

QB? Throws a few picks, calls for the backup.

GM? Every pick better start, or you start packing your bags.

Why anyone would want to come to the Jets and deal with the press and this fan base is beyond me.

Yeah, we should all just STFU and focus on the positives.

Quigley is starting to get into a groove (might be all the reps).

Geno didn't throw a pick 6 till after the 2 minute warning.

We held Manning to 3 TDs and less than 250 yards passing.

Geno Smith was our leading rusher (with all of 11 yards).

At 3.3 yards per play, we only averaged 2 yards per play less than Peyton Manning and the Broncos.

Despite having 13 drives to the Broncos' 12, we were outgained 359 to 204 yards (and outscored 31 to 17).

We have lots of draft picks sitting on the bench, just biding their time, who might be good enough to challenge these juggernauts in another few years.

We're 1 and 5, people. Count your blessings. It could be worse.

We beat a tough Oakland team.

Stop your complaining and show some patience, folks. This is all part of the plan.

Congrats on completely missing the point.

I'm pretty sure I have been quite hard on the team. But you just conveniently ignored that.

My larger point is that this fan base will never get what it ultimately wants, a Super Bowl winner, because it will never allow for a step backward that would precede two steps forward. Every new regime is in a win-now mode. There is no opportunity for anyone to build, because the second the Jets have a rough stretch, people call for heads to roll.

Since ALL of your comments were about this year, you basically proved my point.

While I do think Rex's time is done here, for a list of reasons, and my patience with Geno is wearing thin, I do agree about the lynch mob mentality. Firing a GM two years in is indefensible. Idzik gets at least 3-4 drafts to lay down his plan. Let's not turn into the Raiders and start firing everyone left and right.

Blindsidebrick wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

SackExchange wrote:This fan base will never give anyone the chance to actually put a plan in place.

Head coach? Calls for a firing after the first losing streak.

QB? Throws a few picks, calls for the backup.

GM? Every pick better start, or you start packing your bags.

Why anyone would want to come to the Jets and deal with the press and this fan base is beyond me.

Yeah, we should all just STFU and focus on the positives.

Quigley is starting to get into a groove (might be all the reps).

Geno didn't throw a pick 6 till after the 2 minute warning.

We held Manning to 3 TDs and less than 250 yards passing.

Geno Smith was our leading rusher (with all of 11 yards).

At 3.3 yards per play, we only averaged 2 yards per play less than Peyton Manning and the Broncos.

Despite having 13 drives to the Broncos' 12, we were outgained 359 to 204 yards (and outscored 31 to 17).

We have lots of draft picks sitting on the bench, just biding their time, who might be good enough to challenge these juggernauts in another few years.

We're 1 and 5, people. Count your blessings. It could be worse.

We beat a tough Oakland team.

Stop your complaining and show some patience, folks. This is all part of the plan.

Congrats on completely missing the point.

I'm pretty sure I have been quite hard on the team. But you just conveniently ignored that.

My larger point is that this fan base will never get what it ultimately wants, a Super Bowl winner, because it will never allow for a step backward that would precede two steps forward. Every new regime is in a win-now mode. There is no opportunity for anyone to build, because the second the Jets have a rough stretch, people call for heads to roll.

Since ALL of your comments were about this year, you basically proved my point.

While I do think Rex's time is done here, for a list of reasons, and my patience with Geno is wearing thin, I do agree about the lynch mob mentality. Firing a GM two years in is indefensible. Idzik gets at least 3-4 drafts to lay down his plan. Let's not turn into the Raiders and start firing everyone left and right.

Can you show me a single post on any thread that says Idzik should be fired after this season? I'd like to see if there is any validity to this claim.

hobson54 wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Blown Achilles, out for the year.  We're in the market for a #1 QB, #1 CB, #1 WR, and pass rusher...like we were the day we hired Idzik...

A shot at Idzik. No way. Never saw that coming from you.


The criticism of the Milliner pick is lame. He was the top rated CB in that draft out of college football powerhouse Alabama. This label of him as "injury prone" is bogus. It's "I told ya so" nonsense.

Idzik brought in Decker and drafted Amaro. Both are good receivers. Both are upgrades in offense. That argument fails, too. Everyone's a genius after the fact.

We're reaching now. Let's go up top to find blame. When the majority of the blame lies with Rex and the players. Idzik isn't getting fired. So just exhale. Rex probably is though. And the Geno Smith experiment is on life support. Let's focus on where change is likely to occur.

Could not disagree more with this entire perspective. First off, calling Milliner injury-prone is completely valid, because he is injury prone. 55 has already documented this. He had 5 surgeries in college, so this was certainly something you could see coming. Some people are more resilient to the violence of football than others. Milliner has demonstrated that he is not resilient. This latest injury came without contact. He was rushing the extra point and ruptured his Achilles? Are you kidding me? He is a brittle bag of bones.

i was away all weekend and (fortunately) missed the game.  unfortunately i log on to see milliner is out for the year.

while it is true that he had a number of surgeries in college, it is also true that he only missed 1 game in his 3 years in alabama.  so i'm not sure the injury-prone label is applicable to a guy who missed 1 of 39 games before coming to the nfl.

Are you seriously suggesting there's no discernible difference between a player who had 5 surgeries and missed 1 game out of 39 and a different player who had zero surgeries and missed 1 game out of 39? That it is unjustified to raise some kind of a flag on a guy whose body has required repair 5 times before he ever set foot on a pro gridiron? That there is no reason to fear the extra physicality of NFL football over college might start breaking parts of that body at an even faster and more intense rate?

GratefulJet wrote:

hobson54 wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Blown Achilles, out for the year.  We're in the market for a #1 QB, #1 CB, #1 WR, and pass rusher...like we were the day we hired Idzik...

A shot at Idzik. No way. Never saw that coming from you.


The criticism of the Milliner pick is lame. He was the top rated CB in that draft out of college football powerhouse Alabama. This label of him as "injury prone" is bogus. It's "I told ya so" nonsense.

Idzik brought in Decker and drafted Amaro. Both are good receivers. Both are upgrades in offense. That argument fails, too. Everyone's a genius after the fact.

We're reaching now. Let's go up top to find blame. When the majority of the blame lies with Rex and the players. Idzik isn't getting fired. So just exhale. Rex probably is though. And the Geno Smith experiment is on life support. Let's focus on where change is likely to occur.

Could not disagree more with this entire perspective. First off, calling Milliner injury-prone is completely valid, because he is injury prone. 55 has already documented this. He had 5 surgeries in college, so this was certainly something you could see coming. Some people are more resilient to the violence of football than others. Milliner has demonstrated that he is not resilient. This latest injury came without contact. He was rushing the extra point and ruptured his Achilles? Are you kidding me? He is a brittle bag of bones.

i was away all weekend and (fortunately) missed the game.  unfortunately i log on to see milliner is out for the year.

while it is true that he had a number of surgeries in college, it is also true that he only missed 1 game in his 3 years in alabama.  so i'm not sure the injury-prone label is applicable to a guy who missed 1 of 39 games before coming to the nfl.

Are you seriously suggesting there's no discernible difference between a player who had 5 surgeries and missed 1 game out of 39 and a different player who had zero surgeries and missed 1 game out of 39? That it is unjustified to raise some kind of a flag on a guy whose body has required repair 5 times before he ever set foot on a pro gridiron? That there is no reason to fear the extra physicality of NFL football over college might start breaking parts of that body at an even faster and more intense rate?

Seriously, John Idzik and Jesus Christ are the same person, no point in arguing here. They are literally that blind. I wouldn't waste your time.

Superman55 wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

SackExchange wrote:This fan base will never give anyone the chance to actually put a plan in place.

Head coach? Calls for a firing after the first losing streak.

QB? Throws a few picks, calls for the backup.

GM? Every pick better start, or you start packing your bags.

Why anyone would want to come to the Jets and deal with the press and this fan base is beyond me.

Yeah, we should all just STFU and focus on the positives.

Quigley is starting to get into a groove (might be all the reps).

Geno didn't throw a pick 6 till after the 2 minute warning.

We held Manning to 3 TDs and less than 250 yards passing.

Geno Smith was our leading rusher (with all of 11 yards).

At 3.3 yards per play, we only averaged 2 yards per play less than Peyton Manning and the Broncos.

Despite having 13 drives to the Broncos' 12, we were outgained 359 to 204 yards (and outscored 31 to 17).

We have lots of draft picks sitting on the bench, just biding their time, who might be good enough to challenge these juggernauts in another few years.

We're 1 and 5, people. Count your blessings. It could be worse.

We beat a tough Oakland team.

Stop your complaining and show some patience, folks. This is all part of the plan.

Congrats on completely missing the point.

I'm pretty sure I have been quite hard on the team. But you just conveniently ignored that.

My larger point is that this fan base will never get what it ultimately wants, a Super Bowl winner, because it will never allow for a step backward that would precede two steps forward. Every new regime is in a win-now mode. There is no opportunity for anyone to build, because the second the Jets have a rough stretch, people call for heads to roll.

Since ALL of your comments were about this year, you basically proved my point.

While I do think Rex's time is done here, for a list of reasons, and my patience with Geno is wearing thin, I do agree about the lynch mob mentality. Firing a GM two years in is indefensible. Idzik gets at least 3-4 drafts to lay down his plan. Let's not turn into the Raiders and start firing everyone left and right.

Can you show me a single post on any thread that says Idzik should be fired after this season?  I'd like to see if there is any validity to this claim.

so all your pity-party posts about how we are the worst team in the nfl, in worse shape than the raiders and jags and all the other misery are you advocating staying the course with idzik? your comments about 20 picks and $50 million and we need to start over is your way of saying that idzik is doing a great job and shouldn't be at risk of his job???

got it

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Blown Achilles, out for the year.  We're in the market for a #1 QB, #1 CB, #1 WR, and pass rusher...like we were the day we hired Idzik...

A shot at Idzik. No way. Never saw that coming from you.


The criticism of the Milliner pick is lame. He was the top rated CB in that draft out of college football powerhouse Alabama. This label of him as "injury prone" is bogus. It's "I told ya so" nonsense.

Idzik brought in Decker and drafted Amaro. Both are good receivers. Both are upgrades in offense. That argument fails, too. Everyone's a genius after the fact.

We're reaching now. Let's go up top to find blame. When the majority of the blame lies with Rex and the players. Idzik isn't getting fired. So just exhale. Rex probably is though. And the Geno Smith experiment is on life support. Let's focus on where change is likely to occur.

Could not disagree more with this entire perspective. First off, calling Milliner injury-prone is completely valid, because he is injury prone. 55 has already documented this. He had 5 surgeries in college, so this was certainly something you could see coming. Some people are more resilient to the violence of football than others. Milliner has demonstrated that he is not resilient. This latest injury came without contact. He was rushing the extra point and ruptured his Achilles? Are you kidding me? He is a brittle bag of bones.

i was away all weekend and (fortunately) missed the game.  unfortunately i log on to see milliner is out for the year.

while it is true that he had a number of surgeries in college, it is also true that he only missed 1 game in his 3 years in alabama.  so i'm not sure the injury-prone label is applicable to a guy who missed 1 of 39 games before coming to the nfl.

He had 5 surgeries at Bama, it is not "shocking" to anyone in his first two years of of being a Jet he has had surgery 6, 7, and 8...so maybe he lucked out and didn't miss many games at Bama...but we haven't been so lucky.  Pretending Idzik had no way of knowing he was always injured at Bama is the same as saying, "Ik a blind Idzik supporter."  You may not know it, but everything was there to know Milliner was injured often at Bama.

it's unfortunate that the dee miiliner draft thread on the old board is no longer there (that i could find). because i'd be willing to bet you didn't hate the pick last year when he was he consensus top CB in the draft. you know, just like how you loved the pryor, amaro, and mcdougle draft picks this year before turning about and now hating them...

GratefulJet wrote:

hobson54 wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Blown Achilles, out for the year.  We're in the market for a #1 QB, #1 CB, #1 WR, and pass rusher...like we were the day we hired Idzik...

A shot at Idzik. No way. Never saw that coming from you.


The criticism of the Milliner pick is lame. He was the top rated CB in that draft out of college football powerhouse Alabama. This label of him as "injury prone" is bogus. It's "I told ya so" nonsense.

Idzik brought in Decker and drafted Amaro. Both are good receivers. Both are upgrades in offense. That argument fails, too. Everyone's a genius after the fact.

We're reaching now. Let's go up top to find blame. When the majority of the blame lies with Rex and the players. Idzik isn't getting fired. So just exhale. Rex probably is though. And the Geno Smith experiment is on life support. Let's focus on where change is likely to occur.

Could not disagree more with this entire perspective. First off, calling Milliner injury-prone is completely valid, because he is injury prone. 55 has already documented this. He had 5 surgeries in college, so this was certainly something you could see coming. Some people are more resilient to the violence of football than others. Milliner has demonstrated that he is not resilient. This latest injury came without contact. He was rushing the extra point and ruptured his Achilles? Are you kidding me? He is a brittle bag of bones.

i was away all weekend and (fortunately) missed the game.  unfortunately i log on to see milliner is out for the year.

while it is true that he had a number of surgeries in college, it is also true that he only missed 1 game in his 3 years in alabama.  so i'm not sure the injury-prone label is applicable to a guy who missed 1 of 39 games before coming to the nfl.

Are you seriously suggesting there's no discernible difference between a player who had 5 surgeries and missed 1 game out of 39 and a different player who had zero surgeries and missed 1 game out of 39? That it is unjustified to raise some kind of a flag on a guy whose body has required repair 5 times before he ever set foot on a pro gridiron? That there is no reason to fear the extra physicality of NFL football over college might start breaking parts of that body at an even faster and more intense rate?

sure there were some injury concerns on milliner. but he showed up and played in 38 of 39 games in college, and was a consensus all american his senior year and was the consensus top corner in last year's draft.

hobson54 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

SackExchange wrote:This fan base will never give anyone the chance to actually put a plan in place.

Head coach? Calls for a firing after the first losing streak.

QB? Throws a few picks, calls for the backup.

GM? Every pick better start, or you start packing your bags.

Why anyone would want to come to the Jets and deal with the press and this fan base is beyond me.

Yeah, we should all just STFU and focus on the positives.

Quigley is starting to get into a groove (might be all the reps).

Geno didn't throw a pick 6 till after the 2 minute warning.

We held Manning to 3 TDs and less than 250 yards passing.

Geno Smith was our leading rusher (with all of 11 yards).

At 3.3 yards per play, we only averaged 2 yards per play less than Peyton Manning and the Broncos.

Despite having 13 drives to the Broncos' 12, we were outgained 359 to 204 yards (and outscored 31 to 17).

We have lots of draft picks sitting on the bench, just biding their time, who might be good enough to challenge these juggernauts in another few years.

We're 1 and 5, people. Count your blessings. It could be worse.

We beat a tough Oakland team.

Stop your complaining and show some patience, folks. This is all part of the plan.

Congrats on completely missing the point.

I'm pretty sure I have been quite hard on the team. But you just conveniently ignored that.

My larger point is that this fan base will never get what it ultimately wants, a Super Bowl winner, because it will never allow for a step backward that would precede two steps forward. Every new regime is in a win-now mode. There is no opportunity for anyone to build, because the second the Jets have a rough stretch, people call for heads to roll.

Since ALL of your comments were about this year, you basically proved my point.

While I do think Rex's time is done here, for a list of reasons, and my patience with Geno is wearing thin, I do agree about the lynch mob mentality. Firing a GM two years in is indefensible. Idzik gets at least 3-4 drafts to lay down his plan. Let's not turn into the Raiders and start firing everyone left and right.

Can you show me a single post on any thread that says Idzik should be fired after this season?  I'd like to see if there is any validity to this claim.

so all your pity-party posts about how we are the worst team in the nfl, in worse shape than the raiders and jags and all the other misery are you advocating staying the course with idzik?  your comments about 20 picks and $50 million and we need to start over is your way of saying that idzik is doing a great job and shouldn't be at risk of his job???

got it

Is this your way of saying you couldn't find any place where that has been said that he should be fired this year? Or was that your way of saying I read that post about 20 picks and $50 mill in caps and missed the point that it is okay for fans to start having concerns about the direction?

As I said in the Broncos game thread, Idzik deserves his own coach, OC, QB coach, DC, and no Mike T holdovers, but if we win less than 5 games again next year, continue to show no direction after 27-30 picks, and almost $100 mill in cap spending on his own free agents...then he should be ready to be fired...coaches and everything because he's not a leader of a football organization. Period.

I've said on multiple threads, he should have 2 more years unless next year is a 2 win disaster...

Superman55 wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

SackExchange wrote:This fan base will never give anyone the chance to actually put a plan in place.

Head coach? Calls for a firing after the first losing streak.

QB? Throws a few picks, calls for the backup.

GM? Every pick better start, or you start packing your bags.

Why anyone would want to come to the Jets and deal with the press and this fan base is beyond me.

Yeah, we should all just STFU and focus on the positives.

Quigley is starting to get into a groove (might be all the reps).

Geno didn't throw a pick 6 till after the 2 minute warning.

We held Manning to 3 TDs and less than 250 yards passing.

Geno Smith was our leading rusher (with all of 11 yards).

At 3.3 yards per play, we only averaged 2 yards per play less than Peyton Manning and the Broncos.

Despite having 13 drives to the Broncos' 12, we were outgained 359 to 204 yards (and outscored 31 to 17).

We have lots of draft picks sitting on the bench, just biding their time, who might be good enough to challenge these juggernauts in another few years.

We're 1 and 5, people. Count your blessings. It could be worse.

We beat a tough Oakland team.

Stop your complaining and show some patience, folks. This is all part of the plan.

2 off seasons - 20 draft picks - $50 mill in cap space - and we have Decker, Amaro, Ivory, and Richardson to show for it...now we're starting over at ground zero.

The raiders showed growth and direction this weekend (with Reggie McKenzie and Tony Sparano), Jags have hope and direction for their future too, after 2 off seasons, 20 picks, and $50 mill to spend, no growth and direction for the Jets, just start over...and you, my friend, are being told, that's okay for wasting two seasons and becoming the new Raiders of the NFL; that's what Idzik has built in 2 season, a team to replace the Raiders as doormats of the NFL...everyone on this board is happy with that, so you're supposed to be...some people enjoy watching a loser (wonder why)...

Im glad the majority of the board loves what has been built these last two off seasons that has landed us where we are...but between me and you, it's okay to not have a loser mentality and accept wasting our time, cap money, and draft picks by building a loser product.  It's okay to expect more, even if most Jets fans, especially those on this board, are okay with watching this quality of a product on Sundays and pretending idzik had nothing to do with taking over a 6-10 team and in 2 off seasons to build on that, giving us a product that will be lucky to win 6 games...

Is that really true? I'm not a guy that spews venom, but prior to ~~2 weeks ago I thought that problems here were far more about Idzik doing a poor job than Rex. Far more of his moves over the last 2 years haven't worked out than have, and he sent Rex into a gunfight this season with a knife. I wasn't particularly happy with the Idzik signing. I hear all the "give him time" pleas but we are really trending in the wrong direction. ( I mentioned the "prior to 2 weeks ago" comment because Rex is very guilty now too-his teams play stupid and undisciplined, and players never seem to develop) Ask yourself this-is the future brighter than it was a year ago? I don't think so. Rex has to go, and I think Idzik should only be give one more year to show marked improvement.

hobson54 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Blown Achilles, out for the year.  We're in the market for a #1 QB, #1 CB, #1 WR, and pass rusher...like we were the day we hired Idzik...

A shot at Idzik. No way. Never saw that coming from you.


The criticism of the Milliner pick is lame. He was the top rated CB in that draft out of college football powerhouse Alabama. This label of him as "injury prone" is bogus. It's "I told ya so" nonsense.

Idzik brought in Decker and drafted Amaro. Both are good receivers. Both are upgrades in offense. That argument fails, too. Everyone's a genius after the fact.

We're reaching now. Let's go up top to find blame. When the majority of the blame lies with Rex and the players. Idzik isn't getting fired. So just exhale. Rex probably is though. And the Geno Smith experiment is on life support. Let's focus on where change is likely to occur.

Could not disagree more with this entire perspective. First off, calling Milliner injury-prone is completely valid, because he is injury prone. 55 has already documented this. He had 5 surgeries in college, so this was certainly something you could see coming. Some people are more resilient to the violence of football than others. Milliner has demonstrated that he is not resilient. This latest injury came without contact. He was rushing the extra point and ruptured his Achilles? Are you kidding me? He is a brittle bag of bones.

i was away all weekend and (fortunately) missed the game.  unfortunately i log on to see milliner is out for the year.

while it is true that he had a number of surgeries in college, it is also true that he only missed 1 game in his 3 years in alabama.  so i'm not sure the injury-prone label is applicable to a guy who missed 1 of 39 games before coming to the nfl.

He had 5 surgeries at Bama, it is not "shocking" to anyone in his first two years of of being a Jet he has had surgery 6, 7, and 8...so maybe he lucked out and didn't miss many games at Bama...but we haven't been so lucky.  Pretending Idzik had no way of knowing he was always injured at Bama is the same as saying, "Ik a blind Idzik supporter."  You may not know it, but everything was there to know Milliner was injured often at Bama.

it's unfortunate that the dee miiliner draft thread on the old board is no longer there (that i could find).  because i'd be willing to bet you didn't hate the pick last year when he was he consensus top CB in the draft.  you know, just like how you loved the pryor, amaro, and mcdougle draft picks this year before turning about and now hating them...

You talk in a lot of hypotheticals instead of substance (shocker)...can you find that post about Milliner either or are making it up as you go again?

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

hobson54 wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Blown Achilles, out for the year.  We're in the market for a #1 QB, #1 CB, #1 WR, and pass rusher...like we were the day we hired Idzik...

A shot at Idzik. No way. Never saw that coming from you.


The criticism of the Milliner pick is lame. He was the top rated CB in that draft out of college football powerhouse Alabama. This label of him as "injury prone" is bogus. It's "I told ya so" nonsense.

Idzik brought in Decker and drafted Amaro. Both are good receivers. Both are upgrades in offense. That argument fails, too. Everyone's a genius after the fact.

We're reaching now. Let's go up top to find blame. When the majority of the blame lies with Rex and the players. Idzik isn't getting fired. So just exhale. Rex probably is though. And the Geno Smith experiment is on life support. Let's focus on where change is likely to occur.

Could not disagree more with this entire perspective. First off, calling Milliner injury-prone is completely valid, because he is injury prone. 55 has already documented this. He had 5 surgeries in college, so this was certainly something you could see coming. Some people are more resilient to the violence of football than others. Milliner has demonstrated that he is not resilient. This latest injury came without contact. He was rushing the extra point and ruptured his Achilles? Are you kidding me? He is a brittle bag of bones.

i was away all weekend and (fortunately) missed the game.  unfortunately i log on to see milliner is out for the year.

while it is true that he had a number of surgeries in college, it is also true that he only missed 1 game in his 3 years in alabama.  so i'm not sure the injury-prone label is applicable to a guy who missed 1 of 39 games before coming to the nfl.

He had 5 surgeries at Bama, it is not "shocking" to anyone in his first two years of of being a Jet he has had surgery 6, 7, and 8...so maybe he lucked out and didn't miss many games at Bama...but we haven't been so lucky.  Pretending Idzik had no way of knowing he was always injured at Bama is the same as saying, "Ik a blind Idzik supporter."  You may not know it, but everything was there to know Milliner was injured often at Bama.

it's unfortunate that the dee miiliner draft thread on the old board is no longer there (that i could find).  because i'd be willing to bet you didn't hate the pick last year when he was he consensus top CB in the draft.  you know, just like how you loved the pryor, amaro, and mcdougle draft picks this year before turning about and now hating them...

You talk in a lot of hypotheticals instead of substance (shocker)...can you find that post about Milliner either or are making it up as you go again?

well i already said i couldn't find the post. but from memory i don't recall you hating the pick.

of course, if i did find the posts, then you would say i was stalking you. like when i dug up your posts loving all of idzik's moves and draft picks only to turn around and hate them.

so your track record seems to be one who likes the draft picks, until they don't work out, at which point you hate the picks. perhaps i was mistaken in this case.

SackExchange wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

SackExchange wrote:This fan base will never give anyone the chance to actually put a plan in place.

Head coach? Calls for a firing after the first losing streak.

QB? Throws a few picks, calls for the backup.

GM? Every pick better start, or you start packing your bags.

Why anyone would want to come to the Jets and deal with the press and this fan base is beyond me.

Yeah, we should all just STFU and focus on the positives.

Quigley is starting to get into a groove (might be all the reps).

Geno didn't throw a pick 6 till after the 2 minute warning.

We held Manning to 3 TDs and less than 250 yards passing.

Geno Smith was our leading rusher (with all of 11 yards).

At 3.3 yards per play, we only averaged 2 yards per play less than Peyton Manning and the Broncos.

Despite having 13 drives to the Broncos' 12, we were outgained 359 to 204 yards (and outscored 31 to 17).

We have lots of draft picks sitting on the bench, just biding their time, who might be good enough to challenge these juggernauts in another few years.

We're 1 and 5, people. Count your blessings. It could be worse.

We beat a tough Oakland team.

Stop your complaining and show some patience, folks. This is all part of the plan.

Congrats on completely missing the point.

I'm pretty sure I have been quite hard on the team. But you just conveniently ignored that.

My larger point is that this fan base will never get what it ultimately wants, a Super Bowl winner, because it will never allow for a step backward that would precede two steps forward. Every new regime is in a win-now mode. There is no opportunity for anyone to build, because the second the Jets have a rough stretch, people call for heads to roll.

Since ALL of your comments were about this year, you basically proved my point.

Oh, I think I got your point pretty well:

Only YOU are allowed to complain.

When YOU can't do anything about the product on the field, YOU take it out on other fans.

YOUR generalized comments about Jets fans demonstrate that YOU are too lazy to actually discuss specificity. Example: where exactly did I call for Idzik's (or Rex's, for that matter) head to roll? Not every critique is a demand for someone to get fired. You just make it out to be the case, because it's easier to tar other fans with that brush. We're apparently not allowed a little frustration after our 5th loss in a row?

Now, apparently because my comments did not cover last year or other year(s), they've proven something to you. So, you're actually implying you want me to complain even more? Sorry, I didn't submit a doctoral thesis on how bad this team has become. F me.

Ok, let's compare this year to last year. How are we improving as a team? Must we actually get worse to get better? Is the fact we have street players starting at CB, getting reps at WR, and fielding KOs and punts DESPITE having had 20 draft picks in the last two years somehow evidence that the plan is working?

I've actually been an Idzik believer until the last couple of weeks, but I don't need to wait 4 years to see the trend. Things are spiraling down the porcelain bowl here in every dimension. I suspect he has developed a little hubris from the success in Seattle, and figured he could draft guys in the 5th round that play like 1st rounders, but this year his 1st rounder is playing more like a 5th. The QB has taken several steps backward and again appears scared and overwhelmed by the game. The offense is last in the league in YPG and PPG. We have little talent at the skill positions. Sure, we're playing a run of good teams. You can't call yourself a good team if you can't beat any of them. I suppose we can start padding some of our stats when we start playing the crappier teams. That'll be great for morale. The one thing we had going for us, our run D, is getting gashed, even though we're playing a carousel of bums off the street in the defensive secondary. I'm really missing the silver lining part here.

GratefulJet wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

SackExchange wrote:This fan base will never give anyone the chance to actually put a plan in place.

Head coach? Calls for a firing after the first losing streak.

QB? Throws a few picks, calls for the backup.

GM? Every pick better start, or you start packing your bags.

Why anyone would want to come to the Jets and deal with the press and this fan base is beyond me.

Yeah, we should all just STFU and focus on the positives.

Quigley is starting to get into a groove (might be all the reps).

Geno didn't throw a pick 6 till after the 2 minute warning.

We held Manning to 3 TDs and less than 250 yards passing.

Geno Smith was our leading rusher (with all of 11 yards).

At 3.3 yards per play, we only averaged 2 yards per play less than Peyton Manning and the Broncos.

Despite having 13 drives to the Broncos' 12, we were outgained 359 to 204 yards (and outscored 31 to 17).

We have lots of draft picks sitting on the bench, just biding their time, who might be good enough to challenge these juggernauts in another few years.

We're 1 and 5, people. Count your blessings. It could be worse.

We beat a tough Oakland team.

Stop your complaining and show some patience, folks. This is all part of the plan.

Congrats on completely missing the point.

I'm pretty sure I have been quite hard on the team. But you just conveniently ignored that.

My larger point is that this fan base will never get what it ultimately wants, a Super Bowl winner, because it will never allow for a step backward that would precede two steps forward. Every new regime is in a win-now mode. There is no opportunity for anyone to build, because the second the Jets have a rough stretch, people call for heads to roll.

Since ALL of your comments were about this year, you basically proved my point.

Oh, I think I got your point pretty well:

Only YOU are allowed to complain.

When YOU can't do anything about the product on the field, YOU take it out on other fans.

YOUR generalized comments about Jets fans demonstrate that YOU are too lazy to actually discuss specificity. Example: where exactly did I call for Idzik's (or Rex's, for that matter) head to roll? Not every critique is a demand for someone to get fired. You just make it out to be the case, because it's easier to tar other fans with that brush. We're apparently not allowed a little frustration after our 5th loss in a row?

Now, apparently because my comments did not cover last year or other year(s), they've proven something to you. So, you're actually implying you want me to complain even more? Sorry, I didn't submit a doctoral thesis on how bad this team has become. F me.

Ok, let's compare this year to last year. How are we improving as a team? Must we actually get worse to get better? Is the fact we have street players starting at CB, getting reps at WR, and fielding KOs and punts DESPITE having had 20 draft picks in the last two years somehow evidence that the plan is working?

I've actually been an Idzik believer until the last couple of weeks, but I don't need to wait 4 years to see the trend. Things are spiraling down the porcelain bowl here in every dimension.  I suspect he has developed a little hubris from the success in Seattle, and figured he could draft guys in the 5th round that play like 1st rounders, but this year his 1st rounder is playing more like a 5th. The QB has taken several steps backward and again appears scared and overwhelmed by the game. The offense is last in the league in YPG and PPG. We have little talent at the skill positions. Sure, we're playing a run of good teams. You can't call yourself a good team if you can't beat any of them. I suppose we can start padding some of our stats when we start playing the crappier teams. That'll be great for morale. The one thing we had going for us, our run D, is getting gashed, even though we're playing a carousel of bums off the street in the defensive secondary. I'm really missing the silver lining part here.

I don't think there is silver lining. The one good part of the team has struggled mightily. To me, Idzik has hardly amazed, but I also think it is too early to pull the plug. He was tentative in free agency, and his draft record, while too early to tell, is spotty. He hit on some, and missed on others. That's the case of a lot of GMs. It's a valid critique of Idzik, but some fans will be disappointed when he is replaced by yet another guy who doesn't hit a homer on every pick, or select the exact guy they would have taken.

As for the personal attacks against me, I don't think responding will do any good. I don't want this board to turn into JI, so I'll refrain from responding to the several attacks against my character you made here. Sorry for not taking the bait.

Superman55 wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

hobson54 wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

Superman55 wrote:Blown Achilles, out for the year.  We're in the market for a #1 QB, #1 CB, #1 WR, and pass rusher...like we were the day we hired Idzik...

A shot at Idzik. No way. Never saw that coming from you.


The criticism of the Milliner pick is lame. He was the top rated CB in that draft out of college football powerhouse Alabama. This label of him as "injury prone" is bogus. It's "I told ya so" nonsense.

Idzik brought in Decker and drafted Amaro. Both are good receivers. Both are upgrades in offense. That argument fails, too. Everyone's a genius after the fact.

We're reaching now. Let's go up top to find blame. When the majority of the blame lies with Rex and the players. Idzik isn't getting fired. So just exhale. Rex probably is though. And the Geno Smith experiment is on life support. Let's focus on where change is likely to occur.

Could not disagree more with this entire perspective. First off, calling Milliner injury-prone is completely valid, because he is injury prone. 55 has already documented this. He had 5 surgeries in college, so this was certainly something you could see coming. Some people are more resilient to the violence of football than others. Milliner has demonstrated that he is not resilient. This latest injury came without contact. He was rushing the extra point and ruptured his Achilles? Are you kidding me? He is a brittle bag of bones.

i was away all weekend and (fortunately) missed the game.  unfortunately i log on to see milliner is out for the year.

while it is true that he had a number of surgeries in college, it is also true that he only missed 1 game in his 3 years in alabama.  so i'm not sure the injury-prone label is applicable to a guy who missed 1 of 39 games before coming to the nfl.

Are you seriously suggesting there's no discernible difference between a player who had 5 surgeries and missed 1 game out of 39 and a different player who had zero surgeries and missed 1 game out of 39? That it is unjustified to raise some kind of a flag on a guy whose body has required repair 5 times before he ever set foot on a pro gridiron? That there is no reason to fear the extra physicality of NFL football over college might start breaking parts of that body at an even faster and more intense rate?

Seriously, John Idzik and Jesus Christ are the same person, no point in arguing here. They are literally that blind.  I wouldn't waste your time.

Can you point to any poster here who has refrained from questioning a single one of his moves?

I can't.

Grateful Jet - did you say the Jets should pull the plug on Idzik now?

Why is arguing about poor decisions the same as saying pull the plug? Idont get that response.

I say, he handled the #2 CB and #2 WR decisions biblically bad (he did) and the response is, you want him fired. No, I want him to be as smart as everyone says he is.

Who on this board wanted him to be more right than me with his Geno pick? No one. But if Geno doesn't perform well, it's on Geno, Lee, Marty, and Idzik for making the pick...even if I wanted Geno.

Geno was Idzik's QB, just like Ivory is his RB...how can you loud praise on for one and not blame for the other decision. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

But he doesn't get a free pass on Geno, Milliner, Winters, Saunders, Pryor (to date), and McDougle because of Amaro and Richardson...1 hit on every 10 at bats at the draft ain't gonna cut it when you claim that's how we're building the team...

Superman55 wrote:Grateful Jet - did you say the Jets should pull the plug on Idzik now?

Why is arguing about poor decisions the same as saying pull the plug?  Idont get that response.

I say, he handled the #2 CB and #2 WR decisions biblically bad (he did) and the response is, you want him fired.  No, I want him to be as smart as everyone says he is.

Who on this board wanted him to be more right than me with his Geno pick?  No one.  But if Geno doesn't perform well, it's on Geno, Lee, Marty, and Idzik for making the pick...even if I wanted Geno.  

Geno was Idzik's QB, just like Ivory is his RB...how can you loud praise on for one and not blame for the other decision.  Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

But he doesn't get a free pass on Geno, Milliner, Winters, Saunders, Pryor (to date), and McDougle because of Amaro and Richardson...1 hit on every 10 at bats at the draft ain't gonna cut it when you claim that's how we're building the team...

Idzik certainly shouldn't get a pass on his misses. But I think it's a bit premature to judge him either way on Milliner, and very premature to judge him on Pryor. I'm not saying either of those guys will be legit starters, but it's too early to say they won't.

That's my problem with it. We are so quick to jump to broad-based conclusions.

SackExchange wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

SackExchange wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

SackExchange wrote:This fan base will never give anyone the chance to actually put a plan in place.

Head coach? Calls for a firing after the first losing streak.

QB? Throws a few picks, calls for the backup.

GM? Every pick better start, or you start packing your bags.

Why anyone would want to come to the Jets and deal with the press and this fan base is beyond me.

Yeah, we should all just STFU and focus on the positives.

Quigley is starting to get into a groove (might be all the reps).

Geno didn't throw a pick 6 till after the 2 minute warning.

We held Manning to 3 TDs and less than 250 yards passing.

Geno Smith was our leading rusher (with all of 11 yards).

At 3.3 yards per play, we only averaged 2 yards per play less than Peyton Manning and the Broncos.

Despite having 13 drives to the Broncos' 12, we were outgained 359 to 204 yards (and outscored 31 to 17).

We have lots of draft picks sitting on the bench, just biding their time, who might be good enough to challenge these juggernauts in another few years.

We're 1 and 5, people. Count your blessings. It could be worse.

We beat a tough Oakland team.

Stop your complaining and show some patience, folks. This is all part of the plan.

Congrats on completely missing the point.

I'm pretty sure I have been quite hard on the team. But you just conveniently ignored that.

My larger point is that this fan base will never get what it ultimately wants, a Super Bowl winner, because it will never allow for a step backward that would precede two steps forward. Every new regime is in a win-now mode. There is no opportunity for anyone to build, because the second the Jets have a rough stretch, people call for heads to roll.

Since ALL of your comments were about this year, you basically proved my point.

Oh, I think I got your point pretty well:

Only YOU are allowed to complain.

When YOU can't do anything about the product on the field, YOU take it out on other fans.

YOUR generalized comments about Jets fans demonstrate that YOU are too lazy to actually discuss specificity. Example: where exactly did I call for Idzik's (or Rex's, for that matter) head to roll? Not every critique is a demand for someone to get fired. You just make it out to be the case, because it's easier to tar other fans with that brush. We're apparently not allowed a little frustration after our 5th loss in a row?

Now, apparently because my comments did not cover last year or other year(s), they've proven something to you. So, you're actually implying you want me to complain even more? Sorry, I didn't submit a doctoral thesis on how bad this team has become. F me.

Ok, let's compare this year to last year. How are we improving as a team? Must we actually get worse to get better? Is the fact we have street players starting at CB, getting reps at WR, and fielding KOs and punts DESPITE having had 20 draft picks in the last two years somehow evidence that the plan is working?

I've actually been an Idzik believer until the last couple of weeks, but I don't need to wait 4 years to see the trend. Things are spiraling down the porcelain bowl here in every dimension.  I suspect he has developed a little hubris from the success in Seattle, and figured he could draft guys in the 5th round that play like 1st rounders, but this year his 1st rounder is playing more like a 5th. The QB has taken several steps backward and again appears scared and overwhelmed by the game. The offense is last in the league in YPG and PPG. We have little talent at the skill positions. Sure, we're playing a run of good teams. You can't call yourself a good team if you can't beat any of them. I suppose we can start padding some of our stats when we start playing the crappier teams. That'll be great for morale. The one thing we had going for us, our run D, is getting gashed, even though we're playing a carousel of bums off the street in the defensive secondary. I'm really missing the silver lining part here.

I don't think there is silver lining. The one good part of the team has struggled mightily. To me, Idzik has hardly amazed, but I also think it is too early to pull the plug. He was tentative in free agency, and his draft record, while too early to tell, is spotty. He hit on some, and missed on others. That's the case of a lot of GMs. It's a valid critique of Idzik, but some fans will be disappointed when he is replaced by yet another guy who doesn't hit a homer on every pick, or select the exact guy they would have taken.

As for the personal attacks against me, I don't think responding will do any good. I don't want this board to turn into JI, so I'll refrain from responding to the several attacks against my character you made here. Sorry for not taking the bait.

I'm not baiting you, and I don't see where I attacked you personally, except maybe when I called you lazy. Just as there is a tendency amongst SOJ fans to demand everyone get fired after a 2-game losing streak, there is also a reactionary tendency to group any fan who complains about the team with those SOJ fans. I don't like getting tarred by that brush, so if that came across as an attack, it was a defensive maneuver and I apologize.

For the record, I agree it is too early by at least a year to pull the plug on Idzik, but I am really concerned by the situation his decision making has landed us in. He went for quantity over quality in the 2014 draft, and he seemed to downplay really serious problem areas. The players he drafted have so far mostly proven to be below starter grade, and I do feel that anyone down through the 4th round should be at or at least near starter quality, with the exception of OL and CB, due to the amount of technique involved and after the first round or so they lack the strength and stamina to play a full game. They're usually just not physically prepared, although there are exceptions.

Well, if my original post talking about the impatience of this fan base was a direct response to you, I could see why you got defensive. But it wasn't. It was a general statement. I had just read the old board, and had seen the kneejerk responses there.

And yes, there is a reactionary movement against the SOJF crowd. I am among them. I've always had some aversion to the armchair QBing, coaching, and GMing that goes on in football. I know it exists with every team, but it seems particularly strong with the Jets.

That is not to say that Idzik doesn't deserve some criticism. He absolutely does. But I also think it is way too premature to judge some draft picks as guaranteed negatives, particularly those from this year.