Bowles, Quinn, Bevel, or Hamilton?

These are my 4 most likely candidates to replace Rex, who would be your preference, not necessarily the most likely, but the one you would prefer

I voted for Pep Hamilton. Any candidate that has a QB background both playing and coaching and was associated with Andrew Luck in both college and the pros intrigues me.

I think we first need to establish which side of the ball we want the HC from.......then pick the best. In this modern age of football it would help the organization from an evolution standpoint to bring in the offensive approach and see that spread to the draft room.......bring new perspective. I'm leery of the Seattle OC. Russell Wilson has a unique skillset that may mislead some into thinking the system carries the water. I don't know about that at this point. Same can be said for the IND guy. Is it mostly Luck or is his approach good and then accentuated by the skill level of Luck.

While I would like the offense to run the team.........it may be easier to hire a defensive guy who brings in a good OC that knows QB talent.

E - None of the above.

New Yorkers (like myself), have this ego, that everyone thinks NY is the best place to live or work or whatever ? Living out of NY now, you could never get me back ! Not every GM, HC or free agent wants to move their families to NY. Sorry but thats the truth.

Go Jets...Cyborg

cysporsche wrote:E - None of the above.

New Yorkers (like myself), have this ego, that everyone thinks NY is the best place to live or work or whatever ? Living out of NY now, you could never get me back ! Not every GM, HC or free agent wants to move their families to NY. Sorry but thats the truth.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Quinn grew up about 8 miles from where the Jets facility is in Florham Park. He still has family/friends here.

Hamilton and Bowles are former Jets assistants

Besides NY being one of the most expensive / highest taxes in the Country, we are talking about the serious mess called the Jets ! I'm not trying to piss on your Wheaties, but the Jets don't have a good track record with Head Coaches, follow the trail. So why is a "hot" candidate going to be attracted to the hardest fan / press base in the Country ?

The only reason's I can think of, is that Woody leaves Idzik a blank check to get his guy, or there is a OC or DC or Ex Coach, that knows that it can't get any worse than it is now, so it's sort of a win / win. A HC could look a Hero next year.

Go Jets...Cyborg

I guarantee you there will be no shortage of qualified applicants for the job if/when Rex is fired

Sarge, I'm a Headhunter, qualified candidates do not always equate to super stars. The jets need more than a qualified coach to turn this mess around. Rex has run a good Mangini team into the ground, now it's up to Idzik to fill in the holes. Rex destroyed this team, NOT Idzik.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Ok, I'm not going to play little BS semantic games

Everyone relax. We all want the same thing - the best options at all levels for the team we love.

cysporsche wrote:E - None of the above.

New Yorkers (like myself), have this ego, that everyone thinks NY is the best place to live or work or whatever ? Living out of NY now, you could never get me back ! Not every GM, HC or free agent wants to move their families to NY. Sorry but thats the truth.

Go Jets...Cyborg

couldn't agree more .. having worked in Manhattan for 30 + years and commuting to northern NJ / NY boarder (Pearl River)...

I now live in northern Scottsdale (foothills) and I would never relocate back east... period.

NO offense intended to those of you who live back east

SOJ, Pearl River back in my H.S. days (72) used to have a hell of a good wrestling team.

Go Jets...Cyborg

I tend to agree that not coaching candidate is going to want to come NY or NJ. My opinion is that the Jets need an established coach to right the ship. Someone that has been a HC somewhere before, whether that is in college or the pros, but preferably the pros. Of this group of candidates you mentioned, I would say Bowles is the hottest name. But I think we need an offense coach for a change. We look at the last group of Super Bowl winning coaches, say over the last ten years, and figure out whether an offensive or defensive coach has had more success. My guess is defense, but that's worth looking into.

So in the last ten years, the winners are Belichick twice, Cowher, Dungy, Coughlin twice, Tomlin, Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, John Harbaugh, and Pete Carroll. Overwhelmingly more defensive coaches. And I still believe defense wins championships. That said, we need to find a coach that knows how to groom a QB and put an offense together, or has a really good offensive staff.

I think the QB has as much if not more to do with those SB champions.



We can hire Gruden or Cowher the second week of January, and we're not winning anything until we stabilize the qb position. Cowher couldn't win until he got Big Ben, and when Gruden won with the Bucs, the league was a lot different then it is now. Qb's are more important than ever with the rule changes and the next young qb Gruden develops will be his first. You need to be bad at the right time and have a high enough pick to grab that special qb prospect(like the Colts gm did with Luck). If not, you better hope for a Brees, Brady, or an epic fall like what happened with Rogers in 2005.






Or........... you can go the Seahawks route and try and build up the entire team, draft a quality(not great qb), and go from there. The Seahawks won 7 games each of their first two years during their rebuild, then got the qb in year three. By year four, they were champions. If we only had someone leading this team who was a part of that who can attempt to duplicate that here......... .

51, we can debate whether Wilson is a great QB or not.  I think he is a good player - not great but certainly very talented.  We don't even have that on the roster.  

And your assumption about building a great team using the Seahawks' model is predicated on Idzik being able to execute that plan.  What about this 2-8 team he put out there makes you think he can do that exactly?  His stellar drafts?  His ability to evaluate talent?  The team's winning percentage since he got here?  The fact that he was in Seattle when they won a championship doesn't mean he can build a team like Seattle.  It just means he knows the theory of the approach.   It doesn't mean he can execute it.  If part of the plan is to put a 2-8 team on the field, then the plan sucks as badly as the execution of that plan.  What I am getting at is, where does your confidence in Idzik come from exactly?  Because his track record does not warrant in my opinion such unwavering support.

LIJETFAN wrote:51, we can debate whether Wilson is a great QB or not.  I think he is a good player - not great but certainly very talented.  We don't even have that on the roster.  

And your assumption about building a great team using the Seahawks' model is predicated on Idzik being able to execute that plan.  What about this 2-8 team he put out there makes you think he can do that exactly?  His stellar drafts?  His ability to evaluate talent?  The team's winning percentage since he got here?  The fact that he was in Seattle when they won a championship doesn't mean he can build a team like Seattle.  It just means he knows the theory of the approach.   It doesn't mean he can execute it.  If part of the plan is to put a 2-8 team on the field, then the plan sucks as badly as the execution of that plan.  What I am getting at is, where does your confidence in Idzik come from exactly?  Because his track record does not warrant in my opinion such unwavering support.

I've said time and time again, that I don't know for sure what kind of gm Idzik will ultimately become. I've also said that at least for me, 1.5 seasons isn't enough to pull the plug on what was sold as a complete rebuild( I've seen Cimini mention that the Jets privately felt that this was going to be another rebuilding season. Who's fault is it that the HC shot his mouth off yet again about the playoffs and raised expectations?). You can keep repeating our record all you want, but I provided a link in the Idzik thread which showed every prediction from the major media outlets for this season. Those predictions were made after the final preseason game. The predictions ranged from 7-9 wins across the board. I've also said that with better coaching(preparation, discipline, etc) we wouldn't have just two wins right now. I believe we'd have 5........... possibly 6. Seattle went 7-9 in 2010 and 2011 under Schneider/Carroll. The NFC West was horrific during that span as the Seahawks won the division title one year with that 7-9 record. We've underachieved thus far and it's my opinion that the coaching is to blame. If it wasn't for the irrational hate of certain media members(because Idzik doesn't feed them information), they would be reporting this as well. Like I said, just look at their preseason predictions. We'd have more combined wins for 2013/2014 playing in a tougher division, with harder schedules then the Seahawks achieved in 2010/2011. I also feel that with better coaching our younger players would've been developed much better. Let's be real here. Calvin Pryor was the #1 rated safety in all the preseason by Pro Football Focus. When the regular season starts, Rex has him playing 30 yards off the LOS. Now, IMO, he didn't do that because of the cb situation. He did it to keep playing his guy........ Dwan Landry where he's comfortable playing. We saw the same garbage last year with Ed Reed. Antonio Allen was starting to make plays, but he got pushed aside by Rex's favorite. We see Amaro playing a fraction of the reps of Cumberland, yet easily outproduces him. I think the 2014 season would've looked a lot different had Idzik fired Rex after the 2013 year. Maybe, if Idzik stays, we'll get to find out with his HC. Maybe, we'll also get a good qb in the 2015 draft like Seattle got in 2012 and change the outlook for this franchise moving forward.

football51 wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:51, we can debate whether Wilson is a great QB or not.  I think he is a good player - not great but certainly very talented.  We don't even have that on the roster.  

And your assumption about building a great team using the Seahawks' model is predicated on Idzik being able to execute that plan.  What about this 2-8 team he put out there makes you think he can do that exactly?  His stellar drafts?  His ability to evaluate talent?  The team's winning percentage since he got here?  The fact that he was in Seattle when they won a championship doesn't mean he can build a team like Seattle.  It just means he knows the theory of the approach.   It doesn't mean he can execute it.  If part of the plan is to put a 2-8 team on the field, then the plan sucks as badly as the execution of that plan.  What I am getting at is, where does your confidence in Idzik come from exactly?  Because his track record does not warrant in my opinion such unwavering support.

I've said time and time again, that I don't know for sure what kind of gm Idzik will ultimately become. I've also said that at least for me, 1.5 seasons isn't enough to pull the plug on what was sold as a complete rebuild( I've seen Cimini mention that the Jets privately felt that this was going to be another rebuilding season. Who's fault is it that the HC shot his mouth off yet again about the playoffs and raised expectations?). You can keep repeating our record all you want, but I provided a link in the Idzik thread which showed every prediction from the major media outlets for this season. Those predictions were made after the final preseason game. The predictions ranged from 7-9 wins across the board. I've also said that with better coaching(preparation, discipline, etc) we wouldn't have just two wins right now. I believe we'd have 5........... possibly 6. Seattle went 7-9 in 2010 and 2011 under Schneider/Carroll. The NFC West was horrific during that span as the Seahawks won the division title one year with that 7-9 record. We've underachieved thus far and it's my opinion that the coaching is to blame. If it wasn't for the irrational hate of certain media members(because Idzik doesn't feed them information), they would be reporting this as well. Like I said, just look at their preseason predictions. We'd have more combined wins for 2013/2014 playing in a tougher division, with harder schedules then the Seahawks achieved in 2010/2011. I also feel that with better coaching our younger players would've been developed much better. Let's be real here. Calvin Pryor was the #1 rated safety in all the preseason by Pro Football Focus. When the regular season starts, Rex has him playing 30 yards off the LOS. Now, IMO, he didn't do that because of the cb situation. He did it to keep playing his guy........ Dwan Landry where he's comfortable playing. We saw the same garbage last year with Ed Reed. Antonio Allen was starting to make plays, but he got pushed aside by Rex's favorite. We see Amaro playing a fraction of the reps of Cumberland, yet easily outproduces him. I think the 2014 season would've looked a lot different had Idzik fired Rex after the 2013 year. Maybe, if Idzik stays, we'll get to find out with his HC. Maybe, we'll also get a good qb in the 2015 draft like Seattle got in 2012 and change the outlook for this franchise moving forward.

+1! Pretty much says it all for me, but I'll add Coples being played as a glorified "bump and stay in the flat" CB. Rex is living in the past with both his defense/view of players' ability (Reed, Landry, etc.) and his dedication to the wildcat. I honestly think that he had problems defending against the wildcat 8 years ago, and can't get it through his stubborn head that everyone has figured it out.

Even though I never cared for the guy, Brian Billick was a very successful Coach in turning around a Baltimore Raven team (85-67) and winning a Super Bowl. He is an offensive minded coach who broke all scoring records as the OC for the Vikings before becoming HC.. He has also helped develop Coaches Mike Smith, Singletary, Pettine, Rex, Del Rio, Marvin Lewis, and Mike Nolan.

He is a no nonsense type of coach, that is qualified @ 60 to turn the Jets in the right direction.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Old#15 wrote:

football51 wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:51, we can debate whether Wilson is a great QB or not.  I think he is a good player - not great but certainly very talented.  We don't even have that on the roster.  

And your assumption about building a great team using the Seahawks' model is predicated on Idzik being able to execute that plan.  What about this 2-8 team he put out there makes you think he can do that exactly?  His stellar drafts?  His ability to evaluate talent?  The team's winning percentage since he got here?  The fact that he was in Seattle when they won a championship doesn't mean he can build a team like Seattle.  It just means he knows the theory of the approach.   It doesn't mean he can execute it.  If part of the plan is to put a 2-8 team on the field, then the plan sucks as badly as the execution of that plan.  What I am getting at is, where does your confidence in Idzik come from exactly?  Because his track record does not warrant in my opinion such unwavering support.

I've said time and time again, that I don't know for sure what kind of gm Idzik will ultimately become. I've also said that at least for me, 1.5 seasons isn't enough to pull the plug on what was sold as a complete rebuild( I've seen Cimini mention that the Jets privately felt that this was going to be another rebuilding season. Who's fault is it that the HC shot his mouth off yet again about the playoffs and raised expectations?). You can keep repeating our record all you want, but I provided a link in the Idzik thread which showed every prediction from the major media outlets for this season. Those predictions were made after the final preseason game. The predictions ranged from 7-9 wins across the board. I've also said that with better coaching(preparation, discipline, etc) we wouldn't have just two wins right now. I believe we'd have 5........... possibly 6. Seattle went 7-9 in 2010 and 2011 under Schneider/Carroll. The NFC West was horrific during that span as the Seahawks won the division title one year with that 7-9 record. We've underachieved thus far and it's my opinion that the coaching is to blame. If it wasn't for the irrational hate of certain media members(because Idzik doesn't feed them information), they would be reporting this as well. Like I said, just look at their preseason predictions. We'd have more combined wins for 2013/2014 playing in a tougher division, with harder schedules then the Seahawks achieved in 2010/2011. I also feel that with better coaching our younger players would've been developed much better. Let's be real here. Calvin Pryor was the #1 rated safety in all the preseason by Pro Football Focus. When the regular season starts, Rex has him playing 30 yards off the LOS. Now, IMO, he didn't do that because of the cb situation. He did it to keep playing his guy........ Dwan Landry where he's comfortable playing. We saw the same garbage last year with Ed Reed. Antonio Allen was starting to make plays, but he got pushed aside by Rex's favorite. We see Amaro playing a fraction of the reps of Cumberland, yet easily outproduces him. I think the 2014 season would've looked a lot different had Idzik fired Rex after the 2013 year. Maybe, if Idzik stays, we'll get to find out with his HC. Maybe, we'll also get a good qb in the 2015 draft like Seattle got in 2012 and change the outlook for this franchise moving forward.

+1!  Pretty much says it all for me, but I'll add Coples being played as a glorified "bump and stay in the flat" CB. Rex is living in the past with both his defense/view of players' ability (Reed, Landry, etc.) and his dedication to the wildcat.  I honestly think that he had problems defending against the wildcat 8 years ago, and can't get it through his stubborn head that everyone has figured it out.

51, we just need agree to disagree.  The only point I will make (again) is that is Idzik is not solely to blame.  The failure this season is collective effort, and everyone should go.  Rex, Idzik, Geno, Bradway.   The fact that Rex set expectations with the media is irrelevant.  What is he supposed to say, we suck?  The CBs can't stay on the field and the ones that do can't cover a JV high school team??  This team lacks talent at a number of positions and that was Idzik's doing.  I think we all agree that Rex has his faults.  I called for Rex to go after the San Diego game.  So I am not for keeping him either.   Both should be held accountable, and both should go.  I like Rex, but his time here is done.  

And i had high hopes for Idzik.  But he produced one part time starter in a 12 pick draft.  That's just not good enough.  Last year's draft was one of the stronger drafts in recent years.  So if Idzik couldn't find players in that draft, that's a problem.  That is always the case, but it is even more important in a rebuilding year.  The Patriots don't have to get every player right because they are retooling every year, they are never rebuilding.  The Jets don't have that luxury.  They have to be better than everyone else because the hill to climb is much steeper.  

So, to put a bow on this - if you are going to start over for umpteenth time in Jet history, with a new coach and a new QB, get it right this time.  Don't bother wasting time waiting another season or two for a GM that has never been a GM or drafted a player in his life to possibly get it right.  His inexperience shows.  Go find someone with credibility that actually can do this job, and send a message to the fans and the entire league that the Jets should be taken seriously.  Right now, if you are a free agent, why would you want to come here?  If you are a head coach, same thing?  Idzik could be fired next year if not after this season, regardless of Woody says publicly.  If Idzik screws up again, he's gone.  Not exactly a stable franchise.  

The Jets fans deserve better, on the field and off.  I had hopes for Idzik, I really did.  But his last draft and watching the play on the field this year changed my opinion.  This is a bad football team.  There are no style points or moral victories. No woulda, coulda, shoulda changes the fact that this team has been downright awful for most of the season.  And everyone needs to be held accountable.  That's my opinion.  

So, with all respect, and thank you for the healthy debate 51, I agree to disagree with you.

LIJETFAN wrote:

Old#15 wrote:

football51 wrote:

LIJETFAN wrote:51, we can debate whether Wilson is a great QB or not.  I think he is a good player - not great but certainly very talented.  We don't even have that on the roster.  

And your assumption about building a great team using the Seahawks' model is predicated on Idzik being able to execute that plan.  What about this 2-8 team he put out there makes you think he can do that exactly?  His stellar drafts?  His ability to evaluate talent?  The team's winning percentage since he got here?  The fact that he was in Seattle when they won a championship doesn't mean he can build a team like Seattle.  It just means he knows the theory of the approach.   It doesn't mean he can execute it.  If part of the plan is to put a 2-8 team on the field, then the plan sucks as badly as the execution of that plan.  What I am getting at is, where does your confidence in Idzik come from exactly?  Because his track record does not warrant in my opinion such unwavering support.

I've said time and time again, that I don't know for sure what kind of gm Idzik will ultimately become. I've also said that at least for me, 1.5 seasons isn't enough to pull the plug on what was sold as a complete rebuild( I've seen Cimini mention that the Jets privately felt that this was going to be another rebuilding season. Who's fault is it that the HC shot his mouth off yet again about the playoffs and raised expectations?). You can keep repeating our record all you want, but I provided a link in the Idzik thread which showed every prediction from the major media outlets for this season. Those predictions were made after the final preseason game. The predictions ranged from 7-9 wins across the board. I've also said that with better coaching(preparation, discipline, etc) we wouldn't have just two wins right now. I believe we'd have 5........... possibly 6. Seattle went 7-9 in 2010 and 2011 under Schneider/Carroll. The NFC West was horrific during that span as the Seahawks won the division title one year with that 7-9 record. We've underachieved thus far and it's my opinion that the coaching is to blame. If it wasn't for the irrational hate of certain media members(because Idzik doesn't feed them information), they would be reporting this as well. Like I said, just look at their preseason predictions. We'd have more combined wins for 2013/2014 playing in a tougher division, with harder schedules then the Seahawks achieved in 2010/2011. I also feel that with better coaching our younger players would've been developed much better. Let's be real here. Calvin Pryor was the #1 rated safety in all the preseason by Pro Football Focus. When the regular season starts, Rex has him playing 30 yards off the LOS. Now, IMO, he didn't do that because of the cb situation. He did it to keep playing his guy........ Dwan Landry where he's comfortable playing. We saw the same garbage last year with Ed Reed. Antonio Allen was starting to make plays, but he got pushed aside by Rex's favorite. We see Amaro playing a fraction of the reps of Cumberland, yet easily outproduces him. I think the 2014 season would've looked a lot different had Idzik fired Rex after the 2013 year. Maybe, if Idzik stays, we'll get to find out with his HC. Maybe, we'll also get a good qb in the 2015 draft like Seattle got in 2012 and change the outlook for this franchise moving forward.

+1!  Pretty much says it all for me, but I'll add Coples being played as a glorified "bump and stay in the flat" CB. Rex is living in the past with both his defense/view of players' ability (Reed, Landry, etc.) and his dedication to the wildcat.  I honestly think that he had problems defending against the wildcat 8 years ago, and can't get it through his stubborn head that everyone has figured it out.

51, we just need agree to disagree.  The only point I will make (again) is that is Idzik is not solely to blame.  The failure this season is collective effort, and everyone should go.  Rex, Idzik, Geno, Bradway.   The fact that Rex set expectations with the media is irrelevant.  What is he supposed to say, we suck?  The CBs can't stay on the field and the ones that do can't cover a JV high school team??  This team lacks talent at a number of positions and that was Idzik's doing.  I think we all agree that Rex has his faults.  I called for Rex to go after the San Diego game.  So I am not for keeping him either.   Both should be held accountable, and both should go.  I like Rex, but his time here is done.  

And i had high hopes for Idzik.  But he produced one part time starter in a 12 pick draft.  That's just not good enough.  Last year's draft was one of the stronger drafts in recent years.  So if Idzik couldn't find players in that draft, that's a problem.  That is always the case, but it is even more important in a rebuilding year.  The Patriots don't have to get every player right because they are retooling every year, they are never rebuilding.  The Jets don't have that luxury.  They have to be better than everyone else because the hill to climb is much steeper.  

So, to put a bow on this - if you are going to start over for umpteenth time in Jet history, with a new coach and a new QB, get it right this time.  Don't bother wasting time waiting another season or two for a GM that has never been a GM or drafted a player in his life to possibly get it right.  His inexperience shows.  Go find someone with credibility that actually can do this job, and send a message to the fans and the entire league that the Jets should be taken seriously.  Right now, if you are a free agent, why would you want to come here?  If you are a head coach, same thing?  Idzik could be fired next year if not after this season, regardless of Woody says publicly.  If Idzik screws up again, he's gone.  Not exactly a stable franchise.  

The Jets fans deserve better, on the field and off.  I had hopes for Idzik, I really did.  But his last draft and watching the play on the field this year changed my opinion.  This is a bad football team.  There are no style points or moral victories. No woulda, coulda, shoulda changes the fact that this team has been downright awful for most of the season.  And everyone needs to be held accountable.  That's my opinion.  

So, with all respect, and thank you for the healthy debate 51, I agree to disagree with you.

so if you are firing a GM after 2 years, how do you expect to attract a quality replacement? you ask why a head coach or player would come to this team? why would any good GM come knowing the limitations of the roster and the nature of the ownership/fans that want immediate results or you will be fired within 2 years.

as to the 2014 draft, while early results aren't good, it's a bit pre-mature to say how many of these players will be long-term starters. do you really think pryor won't regain a starting job? are you sure mcdougle will never start? same for dozier and shaq evans? as to the 12 draft picks you keep throwing out, do you really expect the 5 picks taken in the 6th and 7th round to be immediate impact players? now i'm not saying the draft was a success. at this point, it's a disappointment and sanders is a colossal whiff of a 4th round pick. but saying we had 12 picks, while literally true, is a bit misleading when 5 of those picks were pick #195 or later...those picks are crapshoots, and 2 guys are on injured reserve.

Hobson, I think you attract a quality replacement in two ways - first dollars. Money talks and the Jets have more than enough cash to cover the compensation. Second, you hire the right person. It's a meritocracy. If you succeed, you get to stay. Longevity only becomes an issue when someone is not performing well. The teams in the league with stability at the GM position don't have this issue because those GMs are not going anywhere.

In terms of the last year's draft, you're right that the Jets had a lot of late round picks. But with twelve picks, you have ammunition to be aggressive. Idzik was passive. And that's fine if it works. No one expected the Jets to have all 12 players make the roster. But, you like to see far better returns than one part time starter and having your number 1 pick benched.

Why is everyone beating a dead horse, Idzik will be our GM next year.

I think there are several other negative Idzik threads, I think this one is about potential H.C. ?

Go Jets...Cyborg

LIJETFAN wrote:Hobson, I think you attract a quality replacement in two ways - first dollars.  Money talks and the Jets have more than enough cash to cover the compensation.  Second, you hire the right person.  It's a meritocracy.  If you succeed, you get to stay.  Longevity only becomes an issue when someone is not performing well.  The teams in the league with stability at the GM position don't have this issue because those GMs are not going anywhere.  

In terms of the last year's draft, you're right that the Jets had a lot of late round picks.  But with twelve picks, you have ammunition to be aggressive.  Idzik was passive.  And that's fine if it works.  No one expected the Jets to have all 12 players make the roster.  But, you like to see far better returns than one part time starter and having your number 1 pick benched.  

that same money talks should then apply to head coaching candidates and free agents.

as to finding a quality GM, that's probably easier said then done.  if you are talking a former GM, chances are they are a "former GM" because they were fired from their prior job.  unless you mean an oldtimer like ron wolf or bill polian.  alternatively, you can find an up-and-comer rising through the ranks.  preferably one coming from a successful organization.  kind of like the guy woody hired 2 years ago.

so sure, saying they should go out and get a new GM who will be good sounds like a good plan on paper.  personally i think it's crazy to fire a GM after only 2 years.  but if you do, it's not like there is a good gm store you can go to and find a successor.