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    Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

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    football51
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by football51 on Tue 28 Oct 2014 - 15:18

    Old#15 wrote: There were also a lot of questions about Cam Newton's maturity, and that seemed to have worked out pretty well.  I know the Carolina media glare is pretty dim in comparison to NYC, but if we just compare the physical and mental ability of the two does Winston rate a premium pick?



    The rape allegations and the shoplifting are hard to ignore. I don't care about him signing jersey's etc. now, Sanchez was accused of rape while at USC too, so I guess they'd have to trust their own investigators.



    Sack, is it also "Suck for the Seminole"?
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by SackExchange on Tue 28 Oct 2014 - 15:49

    football51 wrote:
    Old#15 wrote: There were also a lot of questions about Cam Newton's maturity, and that seemed to have worked out pretty well.  I know the Carolina media glare is pretty dim in comparison to NYC, but if we just compare the physical and mental ability of the two does Winston rate a premium pick?



    The rape allegations and the shoplifting are hard to ignore. I don't care about him signing jersey's etc. now, Sanchez was accused of rape while at USC too, so I guess they'd have to trust their own investigators.



    Sack, is it also "Suck for the Seminole"?
    In the Hole for the Nole.
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by football51 on Tue 28 Oct 2014 - 15:53

    SackExchange wrote:
    football51 wrote:
    Old#15 wrote: There were also a lot of questions about Cam Newton's maturity, and that seemed to have worked out pretty well.  I know the Carolina media glare is pretty dim in comparison to NYC, but if we just compare the physical and mental ability of the two does Winston rate a premium pick?



    The rape allegations and the shoplifting are hard to ignore. I don't care about him signing jersey's etc. now, Sanchez was accused of rape while at USC too, so I guess they'd have to trust their own investigators.



    Sack, is it also "Suck for the Seminole"?
    In the Hole for the Nole.



    lol!

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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by soj on Tue 28 Oct 2014 - 16:09

    Is there anyone out there that read defenses? just asking cause it seems to me the last few years we have guys who can not? just asking cause I do not follow it like you guys.
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by Seaver on Tue 28 Oct 2014 - 16:44

    soj wrote:Is there anyone out there that read defenses?  just asking cause it seems to me the last few years we have guys who can not?  just asking cause I do not follow it like you guys.

    I know I'm a broken record on this......but more and more teams have gone away from pro style offenses to the pistol/read option. NFL doesn't run that and so QBs are coming in ill-prepared. They have not sufficiently developed as a passer. Then they are being thrust into a job they cannot comprehend - ie Geno. It's tough enough on any rookie, but changing the system and footwork altogether is proving too much for most.

    One thing is true.....the draft board changes rather dramatically from in season to February to draft day..........once we get past the influence of watching games on Saturday and into all-star games and combines where they face their peers at higher levels, tough to say today who is gonna make it. It remains to be seen who can find a 2nd/3rd/4th passing option consistently. It remains to be seen how accurate these kids are when they have to fit into smaller passing windows. It remains to be seen who actually keeps their eyes downfield while maneuvering in the pocket. Whoever it is they will need work and it would be foolhardy to start one.

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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by LIJETFAN on Tue 28 Oct 2014 - 18:35

    Seaver - you questioned whether any dual-threat QBs are successful in the NFL. Kapernick and Wilson immediately come to mind, and they have both been very successful.

    And Andrew Luck and Aaron Rodgers are both excellent runners. They will throw first, but they are good runners.
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by Seaver on Tue 28 Oct 2014 - 18:55

    LIJETFAN wrote:Seaver - you questioned whether any dual-threat QBs are successful in the NFL.  Kapernick and Wilson immediately come to mind, and they have both been very successful.  

    And Andrew Luck and Aaron Rodgers are both excellent runners. They will throw first, but they are good runners.  

    Wilson was basically a pocket passer in college so he was able to adapt pretty well. He's still not a polished passer, but he is high on the QB intelligence meter. He makes smart plays. Where a guy like Geno and EJ Manuel have failed is they make dumb plays. Kapernick is in a category by himself. He played in a wide open attack at Nevada that was both run and pass, but in his case he is blessed with a freakish athletic build. Guys like him only come around once in a while. His passing stats in college dwarf some of these highly touted QBs coming out. He's a legit, 2 way threat. You just can't expect to find one.

    Luck and Rodgers are mobile........but they came from passing offenses in college. They are franchise QBs...........something that doesn't exist in this draft. Anyone drafted will have to make themselves better........ala a Kapernick. He was an experiment that
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by GratefulJet on Wed 29 Oct 2014 - 11:00

    Connor Cook is your man, Seaver:

    Connor Cook Scouting Report

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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by Seaver on Wed 29 Oct 2014 - 12:34

    admittedly I haven't watched much of this Cook kid.....and as such I've been careful not to comment on him. Now looking at the highlight reel......the one issue I have may just be related to the plays chosen.......All I see are one read plays......offensive targets running free. I don't see any defenses making him work. I see good touch, quick release. He is staring at his targets. I don't know enough to say how much work he needs. I would be hesitant to start a guy like that without sitting. I hope to watch more of him. He at least stands tall in the pocket looking to make a play downfield.....that puts him at an advantage.
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by football51 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 12:48

    What is everyone's opinion on Jake Locker? The Titans didn't pick up the option on his rookie contract, and he'll be an unrestricted free agent. There's not much out there as far as veterans are concerned, and Locker did show some promise when healthy. The issue is, at least at this point, he can't stay healthy.
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 13:04

    Meh. I'd rather draft a guy than get a castoff, even if I don't hate Locker's game.

    Here's an intriguing thought...Jets land Mariota, and actively bring in another CB in free agency. What about using another pretty high pick, second day pick, on a guy like Mannion or Petty?
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by football51 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 13:23

    Disregard the stalker's Idzik hate, and it's a good run down of some potential qb fits here.



    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-jets-find-answer-quarterback-2015-nfl-draft-article-1.1993890



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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by lnap23 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 14:09

    I'd take a flyer on Locker but I would definitely be drafting a QB in the 1st and 4th Rd... Yes finding a QB needs to be the highest of High priorities and with the rookie cap the way it is, there is no reason not to draft two and let the best man win the job...
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by Seaver on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 14:24

    SackExchange wrote:Meh. I'd rather draft a guy than get a castoff, even if I don't hate Locker's game.

    Here's an intriguing thought...Jets land Mariota, and actively bring in another CB in free agency. What about using another pretty high pick, second day pick, on a guy like Mannion or Petty?

    I'm all in for taking 2 QBs.........especially if not one in the draft is eventually labeled a 'franchise' QB.
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by Seaver on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 14:28

    if you get a chance.....7pm Saturday night...SEC channel.........ODU vs Vandy......good test for Heinicke vs advanced competition. His OL will be overmatched........he has a very good WR in Vaughn. I myself am curious to see how he stacks up even against a lesser SEC club.

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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by skop on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 14:52

    [quote="football51"]Disregard the stalker's Idzik hate, and it's a good run down of some potential qb fits here.



    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-jets-find-answer-quarterback-2015-nfl-draft-article-1.1993890


    I would like to see us draft Mariota, but I would also love to see "greybeard" Carson Palmer too. With the players he would have around him, Palmer would do very well, and with some help in the secondary, and the current offensive weapons, the team would become an instant playoff team.

    This would accomplish 3 things:

    1.) future QB
    2.) playoff caliber QB right away
    3.) wouldn't be forced into throwing another rookie in to learn on the job
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by football51 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 15:38

    Ian Rapoport @RapSheet · 1h 1 hour ago
    Gonna be a few @NFL teams disappointed in the news that Michigan St. QB Connor Cook plans to stay in school http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2014/10/30/msus-connor-cook-says-return-season/18210927/
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 15:49

    football51 wrote:Ian Rapoport @RapSheet  ·  1h 1 hour ago
    Gonna be a few @NFL teams disappointed in the news that Michigan St. QB Connor Cook plans to stay in school http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2014/10/30/msus-connor-cook-says-return-season/18210927/
    Wish that wasn't the case.
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 17:09

    soj wrote:Is there anyone out there that read defenses?  just asking cause it seems to me the last few years we have guys who can not?  just asking cause I do not follow it like you guys.

    Definitely not Winston. Jimbo's offense reads half the field and the QB reads the safety. It's a one read offense that produced Ponder and Manual.
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 17:12

    skop wrote:
    football51 wrote:Disregard the stalker's Idzik hate, and it's a good run down of some potential qb fits here.



    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-jets-find-answer-quarterback-2015-nfl-draft-article-1.1993890


    I would like to see us draft Mariota, but I would also love to see "greybeard" Carson Palmer too. With the players he would have around him, Palmer would do very well, and with some help in the secondary, and the current offensive weapons, the team would become an instant playoff team.

    This would accomplish 3 things:

    1.) future QB
    2.) playoff caliber QB right away
    3.) wouldn't be forced into throwing another rookie in to learn on the job

    I don't trust Palmer for a second.
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by football51 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 17:13

    Superman55 wrote:
    soj wrote:Is there anyone out there that read defenses?  just asking cause it seems to me the last few years we have guys who can not?  just asking cause I do not follow it like you guys.

    Definitely not Winston.  Jimbo's offense reads half the field and the QB reads the safety.  It's a one read offense that produced Ponder and Manual.



    From the Daily News link above on Winston.




    “He can read coverage going through a progression,” said one scout who has studied him closely through the years. “He has very good leadership qualities and instincts. His most gifted attribute is his ability to stay focused after bad plays and find a way to win. He’s very tough and competitive.”







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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 17:14

    LIJETFAN wrote:Seaver - you questioned whether any dual-threat QBs are successful in the NFL.  Kapernick and Wilson immediately come to mind, and they have both been very successful.  

    And Andrew Luck and Aaron Rodgers are both excellent runners. They will throw first, but they are good runners.  

    Kaepernick still can't read defenses and Steve Young bitches about it every chance he gets.
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 17:15

    football51 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    soj wrote:Is there anyone out there that read defenses?  just asking cause it seems to me the last few years we have guys who can not?  just asking cause I do not follow it like you guys.

    Definitely not Winston.  Jimbo's offense reads half the field and the QB reads the safety.  It's a one read offense that produced Ponder and Manual.



    From the Daily News link above on Winston.




    “He can read coverage going through a progression,” said one scout who has studied him closely through the years. “He has very good leadership qualities and instincts. His most gifted attribute is his ability to stay focused after bad plays and find a way to win. He’s very tough and competitive.”








    Sounds like EJ Manual's scouting report. How'd that turn out? WAsnt EJ undefeated in bowl games?
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 18:39

    Yeah, I would stay away from Winston. I don't buy into either his leadership or the notion that he makes great reads. He has some Vick in him, in that his physical talent can overcome some mental errors.

    I'd take Mariota, Mannion, someone like that over him.
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    Re: Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

    Post by NickSINYC on Fri 31 Oct 2014 - 19:14

    SackExchange wrote:Yeah, I would stay away from Winston. I don't buy into either his leadership or the notion that he makes great reads. He has some Vick in him, in that his physical talent can overcome some mental errors.

    I'd take Mariota, Mannion, someone like that over him.
    I actually think Winston is the more talented QB and if he had the personal qualities Mariota has it would be a no brainier for me who I would pick. The problem is he does not. 


    Drafting him would be a boom or bust proposition. I can't see how the team at this point could possibly take that risk. So Mariota is my guy also but coming from his system does make me a little leery even though I still pull the trigger on him.

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