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    Possible 2015 Jets Quarterbacks

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    Post by Superman55 Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 9:51

    SackExchange wrote:
    Seaver wrote:Fitzpatrick is a classic between the 20's kind of QB........so you will need your kicker to be really good - certainly not the 2014 version of Nick Folk.  This is the kind of QB Idzik should have brought in behind Geno - but I imagine he didn't want that much competition.  I still like Bradford's upside more, but I am all aboard if this happens.  They most definitely have to draft at least one QB.
    I think despite Folk's recent woes, he's good enough for the situation.

    Most likely, sign Fitzpatrick, keep Geno, draft another QB, and let Fitzpatrick groom the two young QBs, with the best one emerging by the end of the year. That would be my plan.

    agreed...unless we get a shot at Bradford, which likely wont happen. Sad
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    Post by Sarge Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 10:15

    I doubt we're going to draft a QB below the 2nd round that has sufficient upside potential to warrant "grooming"

    Sure, if you see a kid in the 4th or 5th round that you love, okay, it could happen and we know there are late round QBs that develop, but it comes down to blind luck at that point
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    Post by SackExchange Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 10:27

    Sarge wrote:I doubt we're going to draft a QB below the 2nd round that has sufficient upside potential to warrant "grooming"

    Sure, if you see a kid in the 4th or 5th round that you love, okay, it could happen and we know there are late round QBs that develop, but it comes down to blind luck at that point
    Oh, I absolutely think there could be a project of a QB found in a later round. If the Jets miss out on Mariota and Winston in the first, or Petty in the second, taking a Sean Mannion type in a later round could be a solid move.
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    Post by Seaver Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 10:43

    Sarge wrote:I doubt we're going to draft a QB below the 2nd round that has sufficient upside potential to warrant "grooming"

    Sure, if you see a kid in the 4th or 5th round that you love, okay, it could happen and we know there are late round QBs that develop, but it comes down to blind luck at that point

    If GMs would come off their measurables perch, there might be some kids that can actually play. These read option 'athletes' don't cut it, so to me rounds 1-7 are the same crapshoot. Out of all the kids coming out, Winston seems to have the best skillset for the NFL, but a GM has to be comfortable enough with his baggage. After that it is all a crapshoot.
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    Post by SackExchange Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 10:54

    Seaver wrote:
    Sarge wrote:I doubt we're going to draft a QB below the 2nd round that has sufficient upside potential to warrant "grooming"

    Sure, if you see a kid in the 4th or 5th round that you love, okay, it could happen and we know there are late round QBs that develop, but it comes down to blind luck at that point

    If GMs would come off their measurables perch, there might be some kids that can actually play.  These read option 'athletes' don't cut it, so to me rounds 1-7 are the same crapshoot.  Out of all the kids coming out, Winston seems to have the best skillset for the NFL, but a GM has to be comfortable enough with his baggage.  After that it is all a crapshoot.
    I wouldn't consider the read-option guys. With as well as Robinson ran it at Michigan, there's a reason he was not drafted as a QB.

    I hate Winston's arm at this point, though he could change that some at the combine. I'd still rather go with a pro-style pocket passer in a later round than a read option guy. Where I disagree with you, other than on Winston, is that I think Mariota has the physical skill set to be a legit pro-style QB. He gets pigeonholed because of the system, but he has the arm, the size, and the vision to be a more traditional pocket guy. He shouldn't be punished because he's quick and athletic.
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    Post by Seaver Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 11:04

    SackExchange wrote:
    Seaver wrote:
    Sarge wrote:I doubt we're going to draft a QB below the 2nd round that has sufficient upside potential to warrant "grooming"

    Sure, if you see a kid in the 4th or 5th round that you love, okay, it could happen and we know there are late round QBs that develop, but it comes down to blind luck at that point

    If GMs would come off their measurables perch, there might be some kids that can actually play.  These read option 'athletes' don't cut it, so to me rounds 1-7 are the same crapshoot.  Out of all the kids coming out, Winston seems to have the best skillset for the NFL, but a GM has to be comfortable enough with his baggage.  After that it is all a crapshoot.
    I wouldn't consider the read-option guys. With as well as Robinson ran it at Michigan, there's a reason he was not drafted as a QB.

    I hate Winston's arm at this point, though he could change that some at the combine. I'd still rather go with a pro-style pocket passer in a later round than a read option guy. Where I disagree with you, other than on Winston, is that I think Mariota has the physical skill set to be a legit pro-style QB. He gets pigeonholed because of the system, but he has the arm, the size, and the vision to be a more traditional pocket guy. He shouldn't be punished because he's quick and athletic.

    what evidence has he shown to form the opinion he can be a pocket passer? He throws in big windows. He has a tendency to run after first read. He hasn't won from the pocket - everything he has done is based on his ability/threat to hurt the opposition with his legs. He won't be able to do that at the next level. He is a read option QB and you yourself state you don't like them, so I'm baffled as to what you are seeing when everyone knows he hasn't been in a position to prove it yet. It's a blind guess.
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    Post by Seaver Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 11:08

    the biggest concern one should have with Mariota is his brain. What I'm saying is we don't know what he will do when he is in the pocket. He has been trained to run when his first read is covered - that results in a lot of punts in the NFL. Just watching Ohio St kid Jones Monday....there were too many plays where he pulled it down and ran on 3rd down - coming up short. Those are the type of missed opportunities that don't show up in a boxscore. Those are the plays that passers make and runners do not.

    We don't know yet what Mariota's brain will process when he doesn't see his big windows.
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    Post by SackExchange Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 11:15

    Seaver wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    Seaver wrote:
    Sarge wrote:I doubt we're going to draft a QB below the 2nd round that has sufficient upside potential to warrant "grooming"

    Sure, if you see a kid in the 4th or 5th round that you love, okay, it could happen and we know there are late round QBs that develop, but it comes down to blind luck at that point

    If GMs would come off their measurables perch, there might be some kids that can actually play.  These read option 'athletes' don't cut it, so to me rounds 1-7 are the same crapshoot.  Out of all the kids coming out, Winston seems to have the best skillset for the NFL, but a GM has to be comfortable enough with his baggage.  After that it is all a crapshoot.
    I wouldn't consider the read-option guys. With as well as Robinson ran it at Michigan, there's a reason he was not drafted as a QB.

    I hate Winston's arm at this point, though he could change that some at the combine. I'd still rather go with a pro-style pocket passer in a later round than a read option guy. Where I disagree with you, other than on Winston, is that I think Mariota has the physical skill set to be a legit pro-style QB. He gets pigeonholed because of the system, but he has the arm, the size, and the vision to be a more traditional pocket guy. He shouldn't be punished because he's quick and athletic.

    what evidence has he shown to form the opinion he can be a pocket passer?  He throws in big windows.  He has a tendency to run after first read.  He hasn't won from the pocket - everything he has done is based on his ability/threat to hurt the opposition with his legs.  He won't be able to do that at the next level.  He is a read option QB and you yourself state you don't like them, so I'm baffled as to what you are seeing when everyone knows he hasn't been in a position to prove it yet.  It's a blind guess.
    He throws in big windows, but he is accurate and makes the right read as to whether to throw it or not. There is guesswork involved as to whether he can make the multiple reads necessary in a pro style offense. I agree with you there. But there are many NFL teams who tend to think he can, so my assessment isn't exactly outlandish.

    That said, there is no common ground here. It's pointless to debate. You hate Mariota's game, and I like what I have seen in him. I hate Winston's arm, and you rave about him. I am not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me.
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    Post by Seaver Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 11:30

    SackExchange wrote:
    Seaver wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    Seaver wrote:
    Sarge wrote:I doubt we're going to draft a QB below the 2nd round that has sufficient upside potential to warrant "grooming"

    Sure, if you see a kid in the 4th or 5th round that you love, okay, it could happen and we know there are late round QBs that develop, but it comes down to blind luck at that point

    If GMs would come off their measurables perch, there might be some kids that can actually play.  These read option 'athletes' don't cut it, so to me rounds 1-7 are the same crapshoot.  Out of all the kids coming out, Winston seems to have the best skillset for the NFL, but a GM has to be comfortable enough with his baggage.  After that it is all a crapshoot.
    I wouldn't consider the read-option guys. With as well as Robinson ran it at Michigan, there's a reason he was not drafted as a QB.

    I hate Winston's arm at this point, though he could change that some at the combine. I'd still rather go with a pro-style pocket passer in a later round than a read option guy. Where I disagree with you, other than on Winston, is that I think Mariota has the physical skill set to be a legit pro-style QB. He gets pigeonholed because of the system, but he has the arm, the size, and the vision to be a more traditional pocket guy. He shouldn't be punished because he's quick and athletic.

    what evidence has he shown to form the opinion he can be a pocket passer?  He throws in big windows.  He has a tendency to run after first read.  He hasn't won from the pocket - everything he has done is based on his ability/threat to hurt the opposition with his legs.  He won't be able to do that at the next level.  He is a read option QB and you yourself state you don't like them, so I'm baffled as to what you are seeing when everyone knows he hasn't been in a position to prove it yet.  It's a blind guess.
    He throws in big windows, but he is accurate and makes the right read as to whether to throw it or not. There is guesswork involved as to whether he can make the multiple reads necessary in a pro style offense. I agree with you there. But there are many NFL teams who tend to think he can, so my assessment isn't exactly outlandish.

    That said, there is no common ground here. It's pointless to debate. You hate Mariota's game, and I like what I have seen in him. I hate Winston's arm, and you rave about him. I am not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me.

    fair enough
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    Post by NickSINYC Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 13:27

    Seaver wrote:Fitzpatrick is a classic between the 20's kind of QB........so you will need your kicker to be really good - certainly not the 2014 version of Nick Folk.  This is the kind of QB Idzik should have brought in behind Geno - but I imagine he didn't want that much competition.  I still like Bradford's upside more, but I am all aboard if this happens.  They most definitely have to draft at least one QB.

    Folk was playing injured at the end of the year. I am confident that contributed to his woes.
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    Post by Sarge Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 13:35

    I like Winston's arm, it's all the other stuff connected to it that worries me
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    Post by Seaver Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 13:37

    Sarge wrote:I like Winston's arm, it's all the other stuff connected to it that worries me

    as it should, but it shouldn't be a dealbreaker alone......the Steelers and Big Ben have weathered his off the field shenanigans to win a couple Lombardis
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    Post by football51 Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 14:54

    Seaver wrote:
    Sarge wrote:I like Winston's arm, it's all the other stuff connected to it that worries me

    as it should, but it shouldn't be a dealbreaker alone......the Steelers and Big Ben have weathered his off the field shenanigans to win a couple Lombardis




    The Steelers are also one of the NFL's protected franchises(along with the Giants, Pats....). The Jets don't have that luxury. Big Ben would've been tarred and feathered as a Jet.
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    Post by football51 Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 16:00

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    Post by NickSINYC Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 16:05


    If the Bucs do indeed go QB I would push hard for a Glennon trade. I liked him coming out and have not changed my mind about him.
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    Post by Seaver Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 18:18

    football51 wrote:
    Seaver wrote:
    Sarge wrote:I like Winston's arm, it's all the other stuff connected to it that worries me

    as it should, but it shouldn't be a dealbreaker alone......the Steelers and Big Ben have weathered his off the field shenanigans to win a couple Lombardis




    The Steelers are also one of the NFL's protected franchises(along with the Giants, Pats....). The Jets don't have that luxury. Big Ben would've been tarred and feathered as a Jet.

    I take it you're alluding to the new sheriff in town mentality these days with discipline? That would be a good point - even Ben might have missed significant time had that been happening now.
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    Post by Seaver Fri 16 Jan 2015 - 18:20

    NickSINYC wrote:

    If the Bucs do indeed go QB I would push hard for a Glennon trade. I liked him coming out and have not changed my mind about him.

    nor have I.....he does everything slow.....needs too much around him to succeed. He's fine if you have him, but not a guy you give anything to get. He doesn't rate high on football IQ, IMO.
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    Post by NYJETSDAN16 Sat 17 Jan 2015 - 10:21

    Seaver wrote:
    NickSINYC wrote:

    If the Bucs do indeed go QB I would push hard for a Glennon trade. I liked him coming out and have not changed my mind about him.

    nor have I.....he does everything slow.....needs too much around him to succeed.  He's fine if you have him, but not a guy you give anything to get.  He doesn't rate high on football IQ, IMO.

    I agree with Nick here.  Glennon would be great for a 4rth rounder. I feel he can succeed with the right coaching.  With two different OC's the guy had 29 td's and 15 interceptions.  Lovie Smith won't know how to differentiate a good QB from a bad one, Rex Grossman anyone?

    Glennon, plus a Rookie QB would be a legit competition for "Bust" Geno.

    I'd love to have Glennon.  The guy had me back in '12 when he face a top 3 Florida state and didn't let the moment get the best of him.  Here's the game:

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    Post by NYJETSDAN16 Sat 17 Jan 2015 - 10:24

    Sarge wrote:If we sign a solid veteran QB, not sure we need to draft a QB. Simms is a decent 3rd Stringer and you can always find a decent vet backup in an emergency.

    Even with Simms, draft and sign one. More options the better.
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    Post by Old#15 Sat 17 Jan 2015 - 10:36

    Thought Gailey's system is predicated on mobility of the QB, if so Glennon wouldn't be a good fit.
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    Post by Old#15 Sat 17 Jan 2015 - 10:45

    Wouldn't shock me to see us picking Hundley or Petty in 2nd or 3rd, Smith and possibly a guy like Cousins or Fitzpatrick to round out the QB position. I'm reading that the spread that Gailey runs is a nice fit for Geno, so who knows maybe he could turn out to be serviceable.
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    Post by cysporsche Sat 17 Jan 2015 - 11:20

    Old#15 wrote:Wouldn't shock me to see us picking Hundley or Petty in 2nd or 3rd, Smith and possibly a guy like Cousins or Fitzpatrick to round out the QB position.  I'm reading that the spread that Gailey runs is a nice fit for Geno, so who knows maybe he could turn out to be serviceable.

    +1 Agree. I think Geno is our starting QB next season regardless who we sign or draft. I think Geno & Gailey are going to be a perfect fit, based on the QB's he liked @ Georgia Tech. Tanneyhill with the Flippers was very average until his 3rd year. I think the light switch kicked on for Geno near the end of last season, then he had a fantastic game against the fish to end the season.

    Geno has the tools (huge arm, great scrambler, fast), he just needs to have more faith in the pocket, read all his reads, plant both feet then chuck it ! We need to protect him better and get him another stud WR weapon. CJ Spiller would really help with swing & dump-off passes under pressure.

    Go Jets...Cyborg
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    Post by cysporsche Sat 17 Jan 2015 - 11:27

    Sarge wrote:I like Winston's arm, it's all the other stuff connected to it that worries me


    Winston does have a big arm no doubt and he's very accurate passer. However, I think he throws wounded ducks, and not tight spirals which receivers prefer. He does not get enough spin on the ball. The different NFL ball should help limit his wounded ducks, but you can't float passes in the NFL and get away with it.

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    Post by SackExchange Sat 17 Jan 2015 - 14:32

    Old#15 wrote:Wouldn't shock me to see us picking Hundley or Petty in 2nd or 3rd, Smith and possibly a guy like Cousins or Fitzpatrick to round out the QB position.  I'm reading that the spread that Gailey runs is a nice fit for Geno, so who knows maybe he could turn out to be serviceable.
    That's kind of what I see happening. Draft Petty, or maybe Mannion, keep Geno, sign Fitzpatrick.
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    Post by Blindsidebrick Sat 17 Jan 2015 - 14:49

    cysporsche wrote:
    Old#15 wrote:Wouldn't shock me to see us picking Hundley or Petty in 2nd or 3rd, Smith and possibly a guy like Cousins or Fitzpatrick to round out the QB position.  I'm reading that the spread that Gailey runs is a nice fit for Geno, so who knows maybe he could turn out to be serviceable.

    +1 Agree. I think Geno is our starting QB next season regardless who we sign or draft. I think Geno & Gailey are going to be a perfect fit, based on the QB's he liked @ Georgia Tech. Tanneyhill with the Flippers was very average until his 3rd year. I think the light switch kicked on for Geno near the end of last season, then he had a fantastic game against the fish to end the season.

    Geno has the tools (huge arm, great scrambler, fast), he just needs to have more faith in the pocket, read all his reads, plant both feet then chuck it ! We need to protect him better and get him another stud WR weapon. CJ Spiller would really help with swing & dump-off passes under pressure.

    Go Jets...Cyborg

    I think it's premature to write off Geno Smith. But as you said, year 3 is gonna be critical. He's got to take a big step forward this season, or he'll be gone. In the meantime, the Jets should prepare the team for his successor. I would be shocked if we didn't draft a developmental QB.

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