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    It's time as a fan base to be realistic

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    soj
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by soj on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 19:51

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:Great points all around fellas.  I just strongly feel this locker room has gotten out of control and Rex has no pulse anymore.  

    Marcus Mariota would be a start and IMHO the light at the end of this tunnel.  The guy has all the attributes of Colin Kaepernick yet possibly more accurate and faster.  Coupled that with an offensive mind at head coach, i'd think the culture would start to change for the best.

    As to SE point.  Maybe this was John's plan after all.  To strip the team down to it's core and rebuild with his own guy calling the shots.  He took a gamble with Geno, (and who knows maybe it clicks for him and the rest of the offensive line in the coming weeks) that is not paying off right now. Meaning Idzik is 100% to blame on that pick where he could have concentrated the pick on another position instead of the "Sexy" pick.

    Idzik must up his game because having 12 picks contribute absolutley nothing with the exception of Amaro & Pryor means he may be neck deep in evaluating players.  Which concerns me about next years draft if we are indeed locked into the top 3.  Would he pull the trigger to move up to #1 and select a franchise QB or would he stand pat and select best player on the board.  With 12 picks in '14, he didn't trade not even one and 4 of whom is not on the roster anymore.
    My main gripe with this past draft is that it was substantial with WR talent. None of the receivers taken with out picks have contributed. Heck the one that's on the PS, Enunwa is facing legal issues.

    He seems to disregard injuires. 1st with Milliner, then Dex and Shaq.  These players have gotten injured before.  Why Reach? I know D-Mil had 1st round talent, but the way the draft was going, he would have fell to the 2nd round possibly. We missed out on an actual play maker in Cordarelle Paterson.

    Idzik MUST up his game in 2015. Draft wise and Free agency or 2014 may happen again next season.

    What do you think of Pryor and Amaro?  I think they both have upside, and I've liked what I've seem from Amaro's small sample size, but has Pryor really shown you (or us) anything?  Has he even made as much of an impact this year as Landry in 2014?

    I can blame Amaro's development on the QB, because I think other than 1 big drop vs GB, he's made the most of his chances...but I haven't seen anything from Pryor that leads me to believe he's more than just another guy (JAG)...not yet anyway...


    There are few sample sizes from Pryor like wrapping up a RB in the backfield after a big hit.  There are flashes here and there, but i will give him a pass due to him being a rookie.
    IMHO, i would have rather chosen Brandin Cook.

    I lost my comments... sigh.  Anyway the gist of what I said is I agree with the both of you (I wanted Dennard and Cooks would have made a nice draft) its time fr a change.   I have never advocated firing during the season but this team needs a wake up call... call it shock therapy but I would fire Rex now, bring back ex-ST coach (can not remember his name now, sigh) and put everyone on notice - everyone - to either perform or at the end of the year your out.

    One more comment on Pryor... he is a in the box SS an I feel that they put him there because of the secondary issues.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Superman55 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 20:46

    soj wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:Great points all around fellas.  I just strongly feel this locker room has gotten out of control and Rex has no pulse anymore.  

    Marcus Mariota would be a start and IMHO the light at the end of this tunnel.  The guy has all the attributes of Colin Kaepernick yet possibly more accurate and faster.  Coupled that with an offensive mind at head coach, i'd think the culture would start to change for the best.

    As to SE point.  Maybe this was John's plan after all.  To strip the team down to it's core and rebuild with his own guy calling the shots.  He took a gamble with Geno, (and who knows maybe it clicks for him and the rest of the offensive line in the coming weeks) that is not paying off right now. Meaning Idzik is 100% to blame on that pick where he could have concentrated the pick on another position instead of the "Sexy" pick.

    Idzik must up his game because having 12 picks contribute absolutley nothing with the exception of Amaro & Pryor means he may be neck deep in evaluating players.  Which concerns me about next years draft if we are indeed locked into the top 3.  Would he pull the trigger to move up to #1 and select a franchise QB or would he stand pat and select best player on the board.  With 12 picks in '14, he didn't trade not even one and 4 of whom is not on the roster anymore.
    My main gripe with this past draft is that it was substantial with WR talent. None of the receivers taken with out picks have contributed. Heck the one that's on the PS, Enunwa is facing legal issues.

    He seems to disregard injuires. 1st with Milliner, then Dex and Shaq.  These players have gotten injured before.  Why Reach? I know D-Mil had 1st round talent, but the way the draft was going, he would have fell to the 2nd round possibly. We missed out on an actual play maker in Cordarelle Paterson.

    Idzik MUST up his game in 2015. Draft wise and Free agency or 2014 may happen again next season.

    What do you think of Pryor and Amaro?  I think they both have upside, and I've liked what I've seem from Amaro's small sample size, but has Pryor really shown you (or us) anything?  Has he even made as much of an impact this year as Landry in 2014?

    I can blame Amaro's development on the QB, because I think other than 1 big drop vs GB, he's made the most of his chances...but I haven't seen anything from Pryor that leads me to believe he's more than just another guy (JAG)...not yet anyway...


    There are few sample sizes from Pryor like wrapping up a RB in the backfield after a big hit.  There are flashes here and there, but i will give him a pass due to him being a rookie.
    IMHO, i would have rather chosen Brandin Cook.

    I lost my comments... sigh.  Anyway the gist of what I said is I agree with the both of you (I wanted Dennard and Cooks would have made a nice draft) its time fr a change.   I have never advocated firing during the season but this team needs a wake up call... call it shock therapy but I would fire Rex now, bring back ex-ST coach (can not remember his name now, sigh) and put everyone on notice - everyone - to either perform or at the end of the year your out.  

    One more comment on Pryor... he is a in the box SS an I feel that they put him there because of the secondary issues.  


    Well, in case there was any doubt how bad this team was mismanaged by John Idzik, the Jets are officially a zone and cover 2 defense in 2014...not Rex's man-to-man for the first time since he became head coach of the Jets...why do you think that is? Do you think Rex wanted to play cover 2 and zone in 2014? Was that his choice to switch schemes?

    Do you think Pryor was drafted to play cover 2 safety? Even Rex's hand is being forced to deal with what he is being forced to work with.

    This team is being so poorly managed it is unbelievable...

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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Metjetgal on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 21:03

    I'm very worried about where the franchise is headed. I'm just really going to cross my fingers and hope that Idzik's plan starts to unfold next yr. I really hope Amaro, Pryor, and McDougle look like good picks when we look back on this draft 3 yrs from now.

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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by trico990 on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 9:24

    I made some derogatory comments about Idzik last year that got me blasted on here. It's JMO guys and gals, but I think Idzik's plan was to get rid of Rex last year and bring in his own guy. The last month of the season, the players love of Rex, and most of all Woody's love for Rex tied Idzik's hands. Again JMO but I absolutely believe Idzik saboutaged this season and is making decisions that put Rex in a no win situation to make sure he can get rid of him this year. To Rex's credit he is keeping his mouth shut about what he is being put through, although when he writes the book it should be a doozy. As someone mentioned in another thread. When has Rex ever played a zone or cover 2? He hasn't. Idzik in one way or another has put him in that position and that's just one example. Rex is toast as HC here, and we'll see if that's for better or worse.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by NCgreen12 on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 9:56

    hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

    It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

    Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

    Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Superman55 on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 10:06

    NCgreen12 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

    It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

    Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

    Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..

    I dont think that's Hobson's point, and hell must of froze over if I am defending his opinion, but I think he's saying Idzik won't give up 3 1s, 3 2nd, a 3rd, and 3-5 mid rd picks for Mariotta like the Skins did...so if you feel it is Mariotta or bust, and you have to trade up and get Mariotta, get your pitchforks ready, because idzik wont pay a kings ransom of draft picks for any player...he's just too conservative to mortgage the future like that.  If we don't have the #1 pick, we're probably not getting him.  However, I'm not betting against us having the #1 pick just yet.

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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by hobson54 on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 10:28

    NCgreen12 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

    It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

    Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

    Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..

    if i thought someone was the next andrew luck, then yes, i would give up the next year's #1 to move up and get him. but luck is a more traditional drop back QB (with decent mobility) that came from a pro style offense. what scares me about trading the farm for mariotta is he is more close to RGIII as a collegiate QB than luck. granted he is 6'4 and solidly built, unlike the fragile RGIII.

    obviously the price you'd have to pay depends on where you are picking. it costs a lot less to move from 3 to 1 than it would from 10 to 1. in the latter case, you need to be absolutely sure on the guy to move up that far.

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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by lnap23 on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 12:01

    NCgreen12 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

    It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

    Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

    Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..

    This is why I feel you draft a QB every year till you have your guy..... maybe 2 a year.... Hindsight being 20/20.... I think I would have went Cooks or Benjamin Rd 1... Amaro Rd 2 and traded above the Pats and grabbed Garapalo (sp?) in RD2 as well... but none of that happened moving forward, I would like to let this season play out before I decide what we need but I have no faith in Geno and I have said it several times on various posts the QB to draft is Shane Carden From ECU
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by NCgreen12 on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 12:58

    Superman55 wrote:
    NCgreen12 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

    It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

    Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

    Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..

    I dont think that's Hobson's point, and hell must of froze over if I am defending his opinion, but I think he's saying Idzik won't give up 3 1s, 3 2nd, a 3rd, and 3-5 mid rd picks for Mariotta like the Skins did...so if you feel it is Mariotta or bust, and you have to trade up and get Mariotta, get your pitchforks ready, because idzik wont pay a kings ransom of draft picks for any player...he's just too conservative to mortgage the future like that.  If we don't have the #1 pick, we're probably not getting him.  However, I'm not betting against us having the #1 pick just yet.

    So the deal was the Skins traded the same years number one (moving up 5 spots) two additional number ones and a second rounder. That is a lot for RGIII and but you wouldn't have said that during his first year or if the person to be drafted was Andrew Luck. So that would translate into Pryor, Milliner, Coples and Stephen Hill for a Franchise QB. If it was Andrew Luck you would make that deal seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Point being the possibility of a franchise QB is worth the risk and BTW - the trade for RGIII is maybe the most anyone has given up for a player.

    Also I'd bet that deal was offered to the Colts and they turned it down to draft Luck so a possible franchise QB was not worth three 1st rounders. Smart move.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by JohnnyBaseball on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 13:26

    Pryor seems to have the same issue that so many "big hitters" have, which is that he's more concerned with hitting people than tackling them. Next time I hear we're drafting a "big hitter," I will know to be disappointed, especially considering that hitting is no longer legal in the NFL.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Superman55 on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 13:46

    NCgreen12 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    NCgreen12 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

    It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

    Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

    Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..

    I dont think that's Hobson's point, and hell must of froze over if I am defending his opinion, but I think he's saying Idzik won't give up 3 1s, 3 2nd, a 3rd, and 3-5 mid rd picks for Mariotta like the Skins did...so if you feel it is Mariotta or bust, and you have to trade up and get Mariotta, get your pitchforks ready, because idzik wont pay a kings ransom of draft picks for any player...he's just too conservative to mortgage the future like that.  If we don't have the #1 pick, we're probably not getting him.  However, I'm not betting against us having the #1 pick just yet.

    So the deal was the Skins traded the same years number one (moving up 5 spots) two additional number ones and a second rounder. That is a lot for RGIII and but you wouldn't have said that during his first year or if the person to be drafted was Andrew Luck. So that would translate into Pryor, Milliner, Coples and Stephen Hill for a Franchise QB. If it was Andrew Luck you would make that deal seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Point being the possibility of a franchise QB is worth the risk and BTW - the trade for RGIII is maybe the most anyone has given up for a player.

    Also I'd bet that deal was offered to the Colts and they turned it down to draft Luck so a possible franchise QB was not worth three 1st rounders. Smart move.

    I agree with Hobson that Mariotta is more RG3/Wilson than Luck. Do you think he's closer to RG3 or Luck? I think I saw Dan say someplace he felt he was a sure fire franchise QB. I'm not sure I feel that confident in him. Not that he can't be, just not Luck.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by NCgreen12 on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 15:15

    Superman55 wrote:
    NCgreen12 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    NCgreen12 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

    It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

    Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

    Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..

    I dont think that's Hobson's point, and hell must of froze over if I am defending his opinion, but I think he's saying Idzik won't give up 3 1s, 3 2nd, a 3rd, and 3-5 mid rd picks for Mariotta like the Skins did...so if you feel it is Mariotta or bust, and you have to trade up and get Mariotta, get your pitchforks ready, because idzik wont pay a kings ransom of draft picks for any player...he's just too conservative to mortgage the future like that.  If we don't have the #1 pick, we're probably not getting him.  However, I'm not betting against us having the #1 pick just yet.

    So the deal was the Skins traded the same years number one (moving up 5 spots) two additional number ones and a second rounder. That is a lot for RGIII and but you wouldn't have said that during his first year or if the person to be drafted was Andrew Luck. So that would translate into Pryor, Milliner, Coples and Stephen Hill for a Franchise QB. If it was Andrew Luck you would make that deal seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Point being the possibility of a franchise QB is worth the risk and BTW - the trade for RGIII is maybe the most anyone has given up for a player.

    Also I'd bet that deal was offered to the Colts and they turned it down to draft Luck so a possible franchise QB was not worth three 1st rounders. Smart move.

    I agree with Hobson that Mariotta is more RG3/Wilson than Luck.  Do you think he's closer to RG3 or Luck?  I think I saw Dan say someplace he felt he was a sure fire franchise QB.  I'm not sure I feel that confident in him.  Not that he can't be, just not Luck.

    I also think he's a bit closer to RGIII / Kapernick than Luck. He's played as expected this year and played pretty well against MSU (one of his tougher games). I'm not categorically saying he's the consensus first pick yet as we all thought Luck would be, but at the end of the day if he's the guy you want and think he can be a franchise QB my point was I don't mind overpaying.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Superman55 on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 15:30

    NCgreen12 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    NCgreen12 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    NCgreen12 wrote:
    hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

    It hasn't worked out for RGIII and Sanchez but what is a team supposed to do when they need to get a franchise QB - just wait for their draft turn and pick what's available. No doubt that has sometimes worked but "if" it's determined that Mariota is the best player in the draft at QB and you need to trade up to get him, you do it. If it means giving up an additional number 1 so be it. That is the only position other than maybe a sure fire pass rusher that you mortgage a bit of the future for. Let's face it even if you had to give up a future number 1 would you rather have an Andrew Luck or Dee Miliner and Quinton Coples (two number 1 picks).

    Years ago misfiring on a number one QB would hit you with the double header (salary cap hell and the need to find another QB). At least now the salaries of even the number one picks are somewhat manageable.

    Net - you do what you must do to get a QB, especially with the way the rules are set up to pass the ball.. That's my opinion at least..

    I dont think that's Hobson's point, and hell must of froze over if I am defending his opinion, but I think he's saying Idzik won't give up 3 1s, 3 2nd, a 3rd, and 3-5 mid rd picks for Mariotta like the Skins did...so if you feel it is Mariotta or bust, and you have to trade up and get Mariotta, get your pitchforks ready, because idzik wont pay a kings ransom of draft picks for any player...he's just too conservative to mortgage the future like that.  If we don't have the #1 pick, we're probably not getting him.  However, I'm not betting against us having the #1 pick just yet.

    So the deal was the Skins traded the same years number one (moving up 5 spots) two additional number ones and a second rounder. That is a lot for RGIII and but you wouldn't have said that during his first year or if the person to be drafted was Andrew Luck. So that would translate into Pryor, Milliner, Coples and Stephen Hill for a Franchise QB. If it was Andrew Luck you would make that deal seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Point being the possibility of a franchise QB is worth the risk and BTW - the trade for RGIII is maybe the most anyone has given up for a player.

    Also I'd bet that deal was offered to the Colts and they turned it down to draft Luck so a possible franchise QB was not worth three 1st rounders. Smart move.

    I agree with Hobson that Mariotta is more RG3/Wilson than Luck.  Do you think he's closer to RG3 or Luck?  I think I saw Dan say someplace he felt he was a sure fire franchise QB.  I'm not sure I feel that confident in him.  Not that he can't be, just not Luck.

    I also think he's a bit closer to RGIII / Kapernick than Luck. He's played as expected this year and played pretty well against MSU (one of his tougher games).  I'm not categorically saying he's the consensus first pick yet as we all thought Luck would be, but at the end of the day if he's the guy you want and think he can be a franchise QB my point was I don't mind overpaying.  

    How much? This year and next year's 1? Pretty sure that's where the conversation starts, right? How much for Marriotta?
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by football51 on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 15:44

    Kimberley A. Martin @KMart_LI · 4h 4 hours ago
    Noted #Jets fan Joe Benigno told Mo he sees them as a 3/4-win tm.
    Mo replied: "You're entitled to ur opinion," said guys are working hard




    Kimberley A. Martin @KMart_LI · 2h 2 hours ago
    Mike Francesa offers positive for #Jets fans: "This team is not God-awful."




    Kimberley A. Martin @KMart_LI · 2h 2 hours ago
    Agree w Mike Francesa on this: "The sharks are circling around #Jets." ...







    That's the nicest thing Francesa has said about this team since Parcells left.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by danfran on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 15:44

    trico990 wrote:I made some derogatory comments about Idzik last year that got me blasted on here. It's JMO guys and gals, but I think Idzik's plan was to get rid of Rex last year and bring in his own guy. The last month of the season, the players love of Rex, and most of all Woody's love for Rex tied Idzik's hands. Again JMO but I absolutely believe Idzik saboutaged this season and is making decisions that put Rex in a no win situation to make sure he can get rid of him this year. To Rex's credit he is keeping his mouth shut about what he is being put through, although when he writes the book it should be a doozy. As someone mentioned in another thread. When has Rex ever played a zone or cover 2? He hasn't. Idzik in one way or another has put him in that position and that's just one example. Rex is toast as HC here, and we'll see if that's for better or worse.
    I've heard that opinion, that Idzik did very little to sabotage Rex & get rid of him. Hard to believe a GM would do that, but I guess nothing's out of the question.

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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by hobson54 on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 16:14

    trico990 wrote:I made some derogatory comments about Idzik last year that got me blasted on here. It's JMO guys and gals, but I think Idzik's plan was to get rid of Rex last year and bring in his own guy. The last month of the season, the players love of Rex, and most of all Woody's love for Rex tied Idzik's hands. Again JMO but I absolutely believe Idzik saboutaged this season and is making decisions that put Rex in a no win situation to make sure he can get rid of him this year. To Rex's credit he is keeping his mouth shut about what he is being put through, although when he writes the book it should be a doozy. As someone mentioned in another thread. When has Rex ever played a zone or cover 2? He hasn't. Idzik in one way or another has put him in that position and that's just one example. Rex is toast as HC here, and we'll see if that's for better or worse.


    we discussed this idzik at length before, but with all due respect, i just can't see this being a viable scenario.

    idzik is gonna be evaluated on his record. woody isn't gonna give him forever to win, and if idzik's 1st two years are 8-8 and then a dreadful year (let's say 5-11 or perhaps worse) because he "sabotaged" rex, then he is looking at a very steep uphill climb in ensuring his long-term tenure. if we play your scenario out, he better be 1000% sure in not only identifying, but also landing his preferred HC candidate, and he better get results quickly. because woody isn't giving him an open-ended commitment.

    there is nothing in the record to suggest idzik is not professional and well respected thoughout the league (well other than manish mehta claiming anonymous agents don't like idzik). to think he would intentionally sabotage his own team, and possibly his own career, seems just too far fetched to give it much credence.

    i understand this is just your opinion, and i respect your opinion. but i can't see any basis in reality in this theory.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Superman55 on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 16:29

    hobson54 wrote:
    trico990 wrote:I made some derogatory comments about Idzik last year that got me blasted on here. It's JMO guys and gals, but I think Idzik's plan was to get rid of Rex last year and bring in his own guy. The last month of the season, the players love of Rex, and most of all Woody's love for Rex tied Idzik's hands. Again JMO but I absolutely believe Idzik saboutaged this season and is making decisions that put Rex in a no win situation to make sure he can get rid of him this year. To Rex's credit he is keeping his mouth shut about what he is being put through, although when he writes the book it should be a doozy. As someone mentioned in another thread. When has Rex ever played a zone or cover 2? He hasn't. Idzik in one way or another has put him in that position and that's just one example. Rex is toast as HC here, and we'll see if that's for better or worse.


    we discussed this idzik at length before, but with all due respect, i just can't see this being a viable scenario.

    idzik is gonna be evaluated on his record.  woody isn't gonna give him forever to win, and if idzik's 1st two years are 8-8 and then a dreadful year (let's say 5-11 or perhaps worse) because he "sabotaged" rex, then he is looking at a very steep uphill climb in ensuring his long-term tenure.  if we play your scenario out, he better be 1000% sure in not only identifying, but also landing his preferred HC candidate, and he better get results quickly.  because woody isn't giving him an open-ended commitment.

    there is nothing in the record to suggest idzik is not professional and well respected thoughout the league (well other than manish mehta claiming anonymous agents don't like idzik).  to think he would intentionally sabotage his own team, and possibly his own career, seems just too far fetched to give it much credence.

    i understand this is just your opinion, and i respect your opinion.  but i can't see any basis in reality in this theory.

    While I agree, i do think it took that amazing December for last year to not be his last year here...I think he was very close to not being the 2014 Jets head coach.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by football51 on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 16:52

    I'm actually starting to get a kick out of Mehta's trolling articles now. He's like a little child stomping his feet and holding his breath until someone acknowledges him. The hate for Idzik is strong with this one. I guess he really does miss his little chats with Pettine.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by HYATT™ on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 20:08

    Many of you know HYATT™ extremely well by now.
    HYATT™ may have an idiosyncrasy or two, may even hold the opinion that Cassel is a better QB than Brady - sorry but that's actually a lot closer to the truth than most of you are willing to accept, & I betcha a few of you have reflected on that opinion this season as Brady turned into a shell of his MYTH behind an OL that doesn't gift him 10 seconds in the pocket on every play.

    But one thing you've come to expect from HYATT™ is a well researched post or three on prospects in upcoming drafts and the caliber of talent to be had from various UFAs and UDFAs available each season.
    2014 is turning into a season in which HYATT™ has felt more in touch with the pulse of the NFL than any before.
    Prediction after prediction has been unfolding in front of his eyes all season so far.
    Eli got much better, Romo is showing he IS an "Elite" QB, Decker is the beast WR HYATT™ always claimed he was and NOT just a product of good QB work in DEN, even Hoodie can't save the deteriorating slide in talent that is now the NEPs, & Mr. Smith is EXACTLY what HYATT™ told you he was way back in March & April of 2013 - in fact the entire 2013 QB class is proving to be exactly what HYATT™ told you it would be all the way back in 2012 - a bust across the board for QBs - AND HYATT™ was right about the 2014 QB class being loaded with long-term NFL QBs with several quality, or even as many as 3 or 4 franchise QBs, in this class - along with plenty of long-term backup caliber QBs.

    HYATT™ reminds you of these matters to make a point.
    He is right MUCH more often than he is wrong about these matters & it's not a matter of lucky guesses at all.
    It is hard work and solid research and it pays off in accurate player assessments - many times assessments Jets fans do not like hearing at all.
    So listen up and hear HYATT™ clearly when he tells you what is about to happen in 2015.

    For as far back as HYATT™ can remember, no 2 consecutive QB draft classes has ever produced more than 5-6 franchise QBs.
    The best 2-year collection of QBs drafted EVER, in all of NFL history, came from the 1983 + 1984 classes.
    1983
    Rd 1-John Elway, Jim Kelly, Tony Eason, Ken O'Brien, Dan Marino
    Rd 8-Gary Kubiak is the oft-forgotten 6th QB from that '83 class.
    1984
    Rd 2-Boomer Esiason
    Rd 3-Jeff Hostetler & Jay Schroeder

    7 sure-fire NFL franchise-type QBs - starters, at a minimum - came out of that 2-year group, & depending on opinions on Hostetler's & Kubiak's value, as many as NINE.

    The next best 2-year collection was 2004 + 2005, with 5 or 6 sure-fire starters & 3 or 4 more all called upon to be "The Guy" for extended stretches of their careers.
    2004
    Rd 1-Eli, Big Ben, & Rivers
    Rd 3-Schaub
    2005
    Rd 1-Rodgers, Alex Smith, & Jason Campbell
    Rd 4 Kyle Orton, and while you may not agree, 2 more Pro Bowlers in Rd 6 Derek Anderson & Rd 7 Matt Cassel.

    ALL have been the franchise QB for some period of time during their careers, with Anderson & Cassel being the equivalent of Kubiak & Hostetler.
    It's not as impressive a group as the '83/'84 collection, but it comes close.

    TWENTY YEARS between paired standout QB classes.
    It's been another decade since, but 2014 started a run of what will eventually prove to be THE best 2-year collection of starting NFL QBs ever drafted - in HYATT™'s opinion.

    2014
    Rd 1- Bortles, Manziel, & Bridgwater
    Rd 2-Carr & Garappolo
    Rd 4-Logan Thomas

    Additionally there is every reason to believe Murray, McCarron, Mettenberger, & even Tom Savage will all be around the league for a long time.
    FIVE of those 6 top QBs are going to be very good in this league for a long time, barring serious injury - with Manziel and Garappolo being the biggest question marks.

    2015
    Mariota, Hundley, Winston, Cook, & probably Hogan will all go in Rd 1 - should they all opt to enter the draft in 2015, which is not necessarily a given for either Hogan or Winston.
    4 of the 5 WILL succeed as long-term starting QBs for their teams, though JUST how good they will be remains an open question.

    Hogan plays for Stanford and Stanford QBs have a habit of finishing their commitment to that school, which is why HYATT™ doesn't necessarily believe Hogan will be in the 2015 draft class.

    Winston may see an opportunity to redeem himself and be the consensus #1 in 2016, rather than carry his present baggage into a draft class where he may end up the 4th or 5th QB chosen when guys like Sean Mannion, Bryce Petty, Devin Gardner, Shane Carden, Bo Wallace, Brandon Bridge, & Matt Joecklel are also going to be garnering considerable attention as their NCAA seasons unfold.

    In the end, the 2015 class looks to produce anywhere from 3 or 4 to as many as 6 or 7 QBs who can and will end up long-term players in the NFL.
    As a 2-year group, this may be the finest collection of NFL QB talent the league will ever witness, which is why HYATT™ predicts that it will be virtually impossible for a faltering Jets team to end up drafting in the Top-10 & NOT be able to move into a position to grab a Franchise QB of their Future in the 2015 draft.
    He IS coming, Jets fans.
    Be patient, all will end very well for your team's future under John Idzik and a QB class that cannot be taken lightly in 2015.


    Last edited by HYATT™ on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 22:40; edited 1 time in total
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    JohnnyBaseball
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by JohnnyBaseball on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 20:53

    trico990 wrote:I made some derogatory comments about Idzik last year that got me blasted on here. It's JMO guys and gals, but I think Idzik's plan was to get rid of Rex last year and bring in his own guy. The last month of the season, the players love of Rex, and most of all Woody's love for Rex tied Idzik's hands. Again JMO but I absolutely believe Idzik saboutaged this season and is making decisions that put Rex in a no win situation to make sure he can get rid of him this year. To Rex's credit he is keeping his mouth shut about what he is being put through, although when he writes the book it should be a doozy. As someone mentioned in another thread. When has Rex ever played a zone or cover 2? He hasn't. Idzik in one way or another has put him in that position and that's just one example. Rex is toast as HC here, and we'll see if that's for better or worse.

    That's a pretty messed up thing to do, if true. And if evidence came to light that suggested that this WAS true, I would want Idzik fired more than any other executive who has ever worked for a team that I root for.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Superman55 on Tue 7 Oct 2014 - 21:06

    JohnnyBaseball wrote:
    trico990 wrote:I made some derogatory comments about Idzik last year that got me blasted on here. It's JMO guys and gals, but I think Idzik's plan was to get rid of Rex last year and bring in his own guy. The last month of the season, the players love of Rex, and most of all Woody's love for Rex tied Idzik's hands. Again JMO but I absolutely believe Idzik saboutaged this season and is making decisions that put Rex in a no win situation to make sure he can get rid of him this year. To Rex's credit he is keeping his mouth shut about what he is being put through, although when he writes the book it should be a doozy. As someone mentioned in another thread. When has Rex ever played a zone or cover 2? He hasn't. Idzik in one way or another has put him in that position and that's just one example. Rex is toast as HC here, and we'll see if that's for better or worse.

    That's a pretty messed up thing to do, if true. And if evidence came to light that suggested that this WAS true, I would want Idzik fired more than any other executive who has ever worked for a team that I root for.


    Hobson wrote a good write up on another thread about this. jets were 8-8 last year with Rex coaching with 1 Idzik draft class and Mike T's roster. He can't risk being worse than 8-8 in a "retooling" year with 12 picks and lots of cap room, and have a complete imploding year in 2014. How much pressure would that put on him and his new coach? Idzik needs to see some growth from Milliner, Geno, Amaro, and have some of these free agents look like wise decisions from Decker, CJ2k, and Gia. I also think after losing Howard, idzik does need to start resigning home grown talent soon. He needs to lock up Wilkerson, Snacks, and Kerley, IMO. He knows his dline will be the ones that take over the locker room as Brick and Mangold walk into the sunset.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by football51 on Wed 8 Oct 2014 - 17:50

    Drunk





    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 2h 2 hours ago
    What up 2002 #Jets! RT @fbgchase: Of the 121 teams to start 2-5, four made the playoffs.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by football51 on Wed 8 Oct 2014 - 17:52

    Sad but true............




    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 6h 6 hours ago
    NE has benefit of doubt because of consistent success but thinking about contrast: Pats get humiliated on road by AFC West team, come home..



    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 6h 6 hours ago
    ...dial up terrific gameplan, stadium is absolutely rocking from opening kickoff and win game nobody expects them to. Meanwhile...




    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 6h 6 hours ago
    ...NYJ coming home to stadium full of DEN fans and NYJ fans dying to boo their QB out of building. We'll see on gameplan...


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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Sun 12 Oct 2014 - 18:09

    If anything, this past game versus the Broncos demonstrated that "WE ARE WHO WE THOUGHT WE ARE".

    1-5 going on 3-13 will be the best thing for this franchise.

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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by soj on Sun 12 Oct 2014 - 20:32

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:If anything, this past game versus the Broncos demonstrated that "WE ARE WHO WE THOUGHT WE ARE".

    1-5 going on 3-13 will be the best thing for this franchise.


    you think 3 wins.. the way they play and how dysfunctional they are I have my doubts.. affraid

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