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    It's time as a fan base to be realistic

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    NYJETSDAN16
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    It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 10:56

    I know i have been very iffy on Geno (and i am not in way making this a Geno thread by any means) ever since he was drafted, yet i was very naive on how our team is being constructed.
    I placed alot on Geno, and yesterday's match vs the Chargers placed everything i need to know in perspective.
    55, Sack and many others were 100% correct, it's not just the QB.  The way this team was constructed for this season by John Idzik was doomed from the start. I have always preached patience with Idzik, and i still do but it is reaching it's toll rapidly.
    The team has no disclipline on or off the field. The amount of penalties is a common thread heading into every game.  Off the field you have a QB that misses a meeting.  I could understand a WR/OLB or a back up player, but NEVER your starter.  Rex has become too loyal to his players.  Rex has never come into his own and never accepted the role of HEAD COACH.  He was always a DC.  The more i see it on Sundays, the more i understand why Ozzie Newsome hired a Special Teams coach instead of a coach that was already on staff since their superbowl in 2000.
    I like Rex, don't get me wrong, but i feel the players feel so comfortable with him that they can do anything they want and get away with it. Hence the play on the field.

    It's time for me and the rest of the fan base to face realism. To Sack's point on a previous thread, we have to look long term.  No matter who the QB is this year (yes even Matt Simms folks), we will not be competetive whatsoever. Look at the teams we will face the rest of the way and it will demonstrate administative changes are coming.  From the scouting department (Terry Bradway) to every single coach on Rex's staff including Rex himself. Idzik, even though it's year two, will be owner Woody Johnson decision to proceed or start over from scratch.  IMHO, he stays.  He must because he needs to hire his own guy with the same views, not a hold over.

    Lets look at the remaining Schedule:

    6 Oct 12 1:00PMEDT * Broncos
    7 Oct 16 8:25PMEDT * , AT Patriots
    8 Oct 26 1:00PMEDT * Bills
    9 Nov 2 1:00PMEST * AT Chiefs
    10 Nov 9 1:00PMEST * Steelers
    11 BYE
    12 Nov 23 1:00PMEST * AT Bills
    13 Dec 1 8:30PMEST + Dolphins
    14 Dec 7 1:00PMEST * AT Vikings
    15 Dec 14 4:05PMEST * AT Titans
    16 Dec 21 1:00PMEST * Patriots
    17 Dec 28 1:00PMEST * AT Dolphins

    I have them winning at home vs the Bills & @ Titans.  That's it.  I know it is such a negative outlook, but to everyones point of view, this is what we are. A 3-13 team.  If this is the case, we will have a top three draft pick in the 2015 draft. If Mariota is off then we MUST GO PLAYMAKER with Amari Cooper.  Then 2nd round we Need to go QB.
    Unless the Jags have the 1st pick, then we MUST MORTGAGE picks to move up and take Marcus Mariota.  
    This team needs an identity because we just don't have one at this moment and haven't had it since 2010.

    The rebuilding process, i hate to say it and fans will absolutley hate me saying this, truly starts in 2015.  New head senior director in the scouting department in Bradway. New head coach and staff. A couple of possibilities are :

    Jim Harbaugh-San Fran
    Brian Kelly-Notre Dame
    David Shaw-Stanford
    Darrell Bevell-OC Seattle
    Dan Quinn-DC Seattle.

    As a die hard Jets fan, it's hard to say but changes are coming very very soon.  Hopefully, we finally hit on a jackpot selection as other putrid franchises have had to turn their organizations from brown baggers to contenders.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Superman55 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 11:02

    I agree with almsot everything you say above, except SE and I (or others being 100% correct about anything Smile).

    You were right on geno, he needed to sit all along (and now should, you were 100% right there).  On the other hand there are too many holes on this team to count.  I think everything else you said is right, Jets need to secure a top level offensive talent, idzik needs his own guy coaching (with a new staff), and we will be starting over across the board.

    Everyone should be held accountable though, as you point out, including Idzik.  I never felt he deserved the free pass everyone has given him up until this point, just now everyone is seeing the fruits of his efforts on the field now...  you can't be asleep at the wheel during free agency, ask the Bucs and Browns where that has gotten them... (farther than us, but that's not the point)...you can't strike out in free agency and in the draft...you just can't suck at both...
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by The Wicker Man on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 11:11

    I'm just glad you didn't mention Cowher and Chuckie as replacements.

    For now, I'm holding out hope for the Wizard of Id. Hopefully, he'll prove he has a brilliant scheme
    in mind with his drafting and cap money....although, times a ticking.

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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Metjetgal on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 11:16

    Season is over. Really sucks. We might even get a top 3 pick, that's how painful this is gonna get.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by NCgreen12 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 11:50

    No matter who's in charge we have to keep trying to acquire a franchise QB. If Mariota is the next best thing then go hard after him. I will never mind overpaying to try and get the most important piece of the puzzle. Nothing is possible until that happens. The second thing is make changes to our offensive line to protect the guy that will lead this franchise. When did we lose the premise that having quality guard play is important. Winters and Colon are killing us.

    I will start our own QB mantra - Be atrocious for Marcus.. Pretty bad huh..

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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by hobson54 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 11:57

    NCgreen12 wrote:

    I will start our own QB mantra - Be atrocious for Marcus.. Pretty bad huh..



    show no sparkus for marcus... geek
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by NCgreen12 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 12:09

    hobson54 wrote:
    NCgreen12 wrote:

    I will start our own QB mantra - Be atrocious for Marcus.. Pretty bad huh..



    show no sparkus for marcus... geek

    Like your slogan better.. Smile
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 12:11

    Both slogans are awful...though I do agree with the sentiment.

    How about "Suck for the Duck"?
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 12:15

    None of us are completely right about anything. Both Dan and 55 have made some great points along the way, and all of us have missed the mark in some way.

    While I agree with Idzik's general strategy, I am becoming increasingly disillusioned with the state of this roster. The money and the picks were there to address some of these needs. CBs as free agents, like DRC, were brought in. But all that ended up happening was the bargain basement Dimitri Patterson experiment.

    My hope...as awful as it is...is that Idzik wanted his own guy all along, and that part of tearing it down this year was so he could convince Woody to replace Rex. Then, with his own guy in place, Idzik would do what was necessary to win.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Superman55 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 12:19

    SackExchange wrote:Both slogans are awful...though I do agree with the sentiment.

    How about "Suck for the Duck"?

    We're 5 games into the schedule and already playing for the #1 pick... Crying or Very sad

    I think we need 2 OGs and a RT also, along with a #2 WR, #1 CB, and a FS...

    I wonder when the Jets will start getting Dozier and Aboushi some PT to see if we landed anything there...
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 12:22

    Superman55 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:Both slogans are awful...though I do agree with the sentiment.

    How about "Suck for the Duck"?

    We're 5 games into the schedule and already playing for the #1 pick... Crying or Very sad

    I think we need 2 OGs and a RT also, along with a #2 WR, #1 CB, and a FS...

    I wonder when the Jets will start getting Dozier and Aboushi some PT to see if we landed anything there...

    Intriguing. I might actually swap the WR and CB positions. I think Decker is a great #2, but might be a stretch at #1. Milliner, on the other hand, I could see being a #1 if he could ever stay healthy.

    Agreed about the OL. It's not that awful, and not nearly as big a hole at WR and CB, but Winters has underwhelmed, Colon is a walking penalty, and Giacomini hasn't exactly stepped up to his contract. I could see both Dozier and Aboushi getting some time eventually.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Superman55 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 12:34

    SackExchange wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:Both slogans are awful...though I do agree with the sentiment.

    How about "Suck for the Duck"?

    We're 5 games into the schedule and already playing for the #1 pick... Crying or Very sad

    I think we need 2 OGs and a RT also, along with a #2 WR, #1 CB, and a FS...

    I wonder when the Jets will start getting Dozier and Aboushi some PT to see if we landed anything there...

    Intriguing. I might actually swap the WR and CB positions. I think Decker is a great #2, but might be a stretch at #1. Milliner, on the other hand, I could see being a #1 if he could ever stay healthy.

    Agreed about the OL. It's not that awful, and not nearly as big a hole at WR and CB, but Winters has underwhelmed, Colon is a walking penalty, and Giacomini hasn't exactly stepped up to his contract. I could see both Dozier and Aboushi getting some time eventually.

    Those first 3 awful drives, when geno was getting crushed everytime he dropped back, SD did that with 3 man rushes and 8 in coverage.  While I agree our oline isn't the biggest hole, I would say it is a C/C+ oiline, and it gets a grade that high because of Mangold and Brick, but the crap around them isn't cutting it...which is D/D+ talent that Mangold and Brick try to hold up.  Colon and Gia are C+/B- run blockers and D/D- pass blockers.  it has been obvious since the first preseason game when Werner abused Gia all first quarter vs the Colts...Winters is swimming, IMO, and seems above his head.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 12:38

    That sounds like a very fair assessment of the line. And yes, because those guys are better run blockers than pass protectors, it further hurts a weak pass game.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by NCgreen12 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 12:47

    Never minimize the Oline unless they are a strength. My view is there is no more important unit in all of sports than the offensive line - they keep your most important and expensive asset (QB) standing tall and confident. D'brick and Mangold were great draft picks and adding Faneca and Woody was one of the best times for our Oline. I think we need to just focus on the guards. BG I think will be fine at RT.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 13:39

    Great points all around fellas.  I just strongly feel this locker room has gotten out of control and Rex has no pulse anymore.  

    Marcus Mariota would be a start and IMHO the light at the end of this tunnel.  The guy has all the attributes of Colin Kaepernick yet possibly more accurate and faster.  Coupled that with an offensive mind at head coach, i'd think the culture would start to change for the best.

    As to SE point.  Maybe this was John's plan after all.  To strip the team down to it's core and rebuild with his own guy calling the shots.  He took a gamble with Geno, (and who knows maybe it clicks for him and the rest of the offensive line in the coming weeks) that is not paying off right now. Meaning Idzik is 100% to blame on that pick where he could have concentrated the pick on another position instead of the "Sexy" pick.

    Idzik must up his game because having 12 picks contribute absolutley nothing with the exception of Amaro & Pryor means he may be neck deep in evaluating players.  Which concerns me about next years draft if we are indeed locked into the top 3.  Would he pull the trigger to move up to #1 and select a franchise QB or would he stand pat and select best player on the board.  With 12 picks in '14, he didn't trade not even one and 4 of whom is not on the roster anymore.
    My main gripe with this past draft is that it was substantial with WR talent. None of the receivers taken with out picks have contributed. Heck the one that's on the PS, Enunwa is facing legal issues.

    He seems to disregard injuires. 1st with Milliner, then Dex and Shaq.  These players have gotten injured before.  Why Reach? I know D-Mil had 1st round talent, but the way the draft was going, he would have fell to the 2nd round possibly. We missed out on an actual play maker in Cordarelle Paterson.

    Idzik MUST up his game in 2015. Draft wise and Free agency or 2014 may happen again next season.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Superman55 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 13:51

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:Great points all around fellas.  I just strongly feel this locker room has gotten out of control and Rex has no pulse anymore.  

    Marcus Mariota would be a start and IMHO the light at the end of this tunnel.  The guy has all the attributes of Colin Kaepernick yet possibly more accurate and faster.  Coupled that with an offensive mind at head coach, i'd think the culture would start to change for the best.

    As to SE point.  Maybe this was John's plan after all.  To strip the team down to it's core and rebuild with his own guy calling the shots.  He took a gamble with Geno, (and who knows maybe it clicks for him and the rest of the offensive line in the coming weeks) that is not paying off right now. Meaning Idzik is 100% to blame on that pick where he could have concentrated the pick on another position instead of the "Sexy" pick.

    Idzik must up his game because having 12 picks contribute absolutley nothing with the exception of Amaro & Pryor means he may be neck deep in evaluating players.  Which concerns me about next years draft if we are indeed locked into the top 3.  Would he pull the trigger to move up to #1 and select a franchise QB or would he stand pat and select best player on the board.  With 12 picks in '14, he didn't trade not even one and 4 of whom is not on the roster anymore.
    My main gripe with this past draft is that it was substantial with WR talent. None of the receivers taken with out picks have contributed. Heck the one that's on the PS, Enunwa is facing legal issues.

    He seems to disregard injuires. 1st with Milliner, then Dex and Shaq.  These players have gotten injured before.  Why Reach? I know D-Mil had 1st round talent, but the way the draft was going, he would have fell to the 2nd round possibly. We missed out on an actual play maker in Cordarelle Paterson.

    Idzik MUST up his game in 2015. Draft wise and Free agency or 2014 may happen again next season.

    What do you think of Pryor and Amaro?  I think they both have upside, and I've liked what I've seem from Amaro's small sample size, but has Pryor really shown you (or us) anything?  Has he even made as much of an impact this year as Landry in 2014?

    I can blame Amaro's development on the QB, because I think other than 1 big drop vs GB, he's made the most of his chances...but I haven't seen anything from Pryor that leads me to believe he's more than just another guy (JAG)...not yet anyway...
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 13:57

    Superman55 wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:Great points all around fellas.  I just strongly feel this locker room has gotten out of control and Rex has no pulse anymore.  

    Marcus Mariota would be a start and IMHO the light at the end of this tunnel.  The guy has all the attributes of Colin Kaepernick yet possibly more accurate and faster.  Coupled that with an offensive mind at head coach, i'd think the culture would start to change for the best.

    As to SE point.  Maybe this was John's plan after all.  To strip the team down to it's core and rebuild with his own guy calling the shots.  He took a gamble with Geno, (and who knows maybe it clicks for him and the rest of the offensive line in the coming weeks) that is not paying off right now. Meaning Idzik is 100% to blame on that pick where he could have concentrated the pick on another position instead of the "Sexy" pick.

    Idzik must up his game because having 12 picks contribute absolutley nothing with the exception of Amaro & Pryor means he may be neck deep in evaluating players.  Which concerns me about next years draft if we are indeed locked into the top 3.  Would he pull the trigger to move up to #1 and select a franchise QB or would he stand pat and select best player on the board.  With 12 picks in '14, he didn't trade not even one and 4 of whom is not on the roster anymore.
    My main gripe with this past draft is that it was substantial with WR talent. None of the receivers taken with out picks have contributed. Heck the one that's on the PS, Enunwa is facing legal issues.

    He seems to disregard injuires. 1st with Milliner, then Dex and Shaq.  These players have gotten injured before.  Why Reach? I know D-Mil had 1st round talent, but the way the draft was going, he would have fell to the 2nd round possibly. We missed out on an actual play maker in Cordarelle Paterson.

    Idzik MUST up his game in 2015. Draft wise and Free agency or 2014 may happen again next season.

    What do you think of Pryor and Amaro?  I think they both have upside, and I've liked what I've seem from Amaro's small sample size, but has Pryor really shown you (or us) anything?  Has he even made as much of an impact this year as Landry in 2014?

    I can blame Amaro's development on the QB, because I think other than 1 big drop vs GB, he's made the most of his chances...but I haven't seen anything from Pryor that leads me to believe he's more than just another guy (JAG)...not yet anyway...


    There are few sample sizes from Pryor like wrapping up a RB in the backfield after a big hit. There are flashes here and there, but i will give him a pass due to him being a rookie.
    IMHO, i would have rather chosen Brandin Cook.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Superman55 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 13:59

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:Great points all around fellas.  I just strongly feel this locker room has gotten out of control and Rex has no pulse anymore.  

    Marcus Mariota would be a start and IMHO the light at the end of this tunnel.  The guy has all the attributes of Colin Kaepernick yet possibly more accurate and faster.  Coupled that with an offensive mind at head coach, i'd think the culture would start to change for the best.

    As to SE point.  Maybe this was John's plan after all.  To strip the team down to it's core and rebuild with his own guy calling the shots.  He took a gamble with Geno, (and who knows maybe it clicks for him and the rest of the offensive line in the coming weeks) that is not paying off right now. Meaning Idzik is 100% to blame on that pick where he could have concentrated the pick on another position instead of the "Sexy" pick.

    Idzik must up his game because having 12 picks contribute absolutley nothing with the exception of Amaro & Pryor means he may be neck deep in evaluating players.  Which concerns me about next years draft if we are indeed locked into the top 3.  Would he pull the trigger to move up to #1 and select a franchise QB or would he stand pat and select best player on the board.  With 12 picks in '14, he didn't trade not even one and 4 of whom is not on the roster anymore.
    My main gripe with this past draft is that it was substantial with WR talent. None of the receivers taken with out picks have contributed. Heck the one that's on the PS, Enunwa is facing legal issues.

    He seems to disregard injuires. 1st with Milliner, then Dex and Shaq.  These players have gotten injured before.  Why Reach? I know D-Mil had 1st round talent, but the way the draft was going, he would have fell to the 2nd round possibly. We missed out on an actual play maker in Cordarelle Paterson.

    Idzik MUST up his game in 2015. Draft wise and Free agency or 2014 may happen again next season.

    What do you think of Pryor and Amaro?  I think they both have upside, and I've liked what I've seem from Amaro's small sample size, but has Pryor really shown you (or us) anything?  Has he even made as much of an impact this year as Landry in 2014?

    I can blame Amaro's development on the QB, because I think other than 1 big drop vs GB, he's made the most of his chances...but I haven't seen anything from Pryor that leads me to believe he's more than just another guy (JAG)...not yet anyway...


    There are few sample sizes from Pryor like wrapping up a RB in the backfield after a big hit.  There are flashes here and there, but i will give him a pass due to him being a rookie.
    IMHO, i would have rather chosen Brandin Cook.

    Me too. Cook or Dennard were my picks as the arm chair GM, I could have lived with either player.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 13:59

    hobson54 wrote:
    NCgreen12 wrote:

    I will start our own QB mantra - Be atrocious for Marcus.. Pretty bad huh..



    show no sparkus for marcus... geek

    Even Steve Serby is on this:
    "Carcass for Marcus"

    http://nypost.com/2014/10/06/mariota-could-be-jets-next-qb-if-geno-keeps-bombing/
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 14:11

    Mariota has the Humilty of Russel Wilson and the body type of Kaepernick. Skill set of both with an absolute Rocket arm along side with his accuracy.  IMHO, and i don't say this much, he's a can't miss QB.  Idzik has got to get this guy if we're top 3 not 1 overall.

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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Superman55 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 14:40

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:Mariota has the Humilty of Russel Wilson and the body type of Kaepernick. Skill set of both with an absolute Rocket arm along side with his accuracy.  IMHO, and i don't say this much, he's a can't miss QB.  Idzik has got to get this guy if we're top 3 not 1 overall.



    Mariota could be Jets’ next QB if Geno keeps bombing
    By Steve SerbyOctober 6, 2014 | 11:06am
    Modal Trigger
    Mariota could be Jets’ next QB if Geno keeps bombing
    The Jets could draft Oregon star Marcus Mariota if Geno Smith's (inset) struggles continue.
    Photo: Getty Images, Bill Kostroun
    MORE ON:
    NEW YORK JETS
    Jets rewind: Missed meeting least of worries over Geno Smith
    Geno Smith missed team meeting before benching
    Jets report card: Nothing could rescue this bad grade
    The 'huge mistake' for Jets wasn't by a quarterback
    It’s early, and though it has gotten late early for the Jets, it is still too early to give up on Geno Smith. But if you belong to that infamous army of long-suffering Jets fans, it is not too early for you to dream about Marcus Mariota.
    Suck For Mariota doesn’t have the same ring to it as Suck For Luck did, but you get the drift. If the Jets are as bad as they looked in San Diego, if Rex Ryan cannot keep the ship from sinking and the season spirals even more out of control than it has, the Jets will be very much in play for Oregon’s Heisman hopeful should he decide to enter the NFL draft.
    A Carcass For Marcus?
    Remember that the Raiders (Derek Carr) and Jaguars (Blake Bortles), two certain Carcasses for Marcus, have their presumptive rookie franchise quarterbacks. The Titans, Bucs, Rams and possibly even the Redskins would be in play, however, and Mariota is considered such a prospect that it’s likely the winner of the Carcass For Marcus Sweepstakes would have to trade up to secure the first overall pick of the 2015 NFL draft.
    Mariota was expected to be among a talented group of quarterbacks coming out in the 2014 class, but surprised by returning to Oregon for his junior season in an attempt to win a national title. That looks like a long shot after the No. 2 Ducks were stunned by Arizona on Thursday night.
    Despite a patchwork offensive line, Mariota has completed 71 percent of his passes while throwing for 1,411 yards and 15 touchdowns during the team’s 4-1 start.
    If Trader John Idzik can’t find a quality cornerback, all would be forgiven if he were to step out of character and make the bombshell move — for his new coach — if Smith continues to drown in quicksand.
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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by NCgreen12 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 17:47

    So if we finish as a top 5 in the draft I am also concerned Idzik might not pull the trigger to get to the number one slot for Mariota. In two years, maybe other than going after Decker, I haven't seen someone who would be waiting at the doorstep at 12:01 AM to sign a player during free agency or trade up a couple slots to get the player he wants. Maybe there hasn't been a player in his mind as of yet that warrants that or maybe he is just this very introspective, very methodical type personality. We'll see how much he has learned the last two years.


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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by hobson54 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 18:42

    for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???

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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by Blindsidebrick on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 18:59

    I am at the point in my life as a Jets fan where I'll sacrifice almost anything for a franchise QB. I know they don't grow on trees, but I feel a franchise QB would've been the difference in several years in recent history (1998, 2009, 2010).

    With that said, it's always a risk. I didn't believe RGIII was a slam dunk, and I don't believe Mariota is either. You pick, say 8-10 if your the Jets, or even 4-6, and trade up to #1 or 2 for Mariota, you're gonna give up a lot for the "prized prospect" that 5-6 teams will be fighting for.

    I don't see Idzik doing it. But this season could change the circumstances for him.

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    Re: It's time as a fan base to be realistic

    Post by lnap23 on Mon 6 Oct 2014 - 19:45

    hobson54 wrote:for all that have the proverbial pitchforks and torches out for idzik for possibly not trading up for mariotta, i ask - how is that trade for RGIII working out for the redskins???


    How about that trade up to get Sanchez?? Worked out well for us....


    I think this is a draft class where there is not one QB to trade up for. Going into the last few drafts I would have to say Andrew Luck was the only guy to really go up and mortgage a lot for.

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