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    cysporsche
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by cysporsche on Thu 9 Oct 2014 - 16:13

    I wanted to re-sign Cro-Daddy until we had a true #2 CB to take his place. The "bum" from Miami was a bad signing based on the # of teams he'a already played for. That should have been a big red flag.

    Antonio Allen actually played safety against the Chargers, not CB. They had him on Gates (I think), and Walls was the #2 CB.

    Go Jets...Cyborg

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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by Metjetgal on Thu 9 Oct 2014 - 19:12

    The Patterson signing was so bad. Sooooo bad.
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by Superman55 on Thu 9 Oct 2014 - 20:58

    Metjetgal wrote:The Patterson signing was so bad. Sooooo bad.

    Yeah, he was part of that plan in that Idzik post of yours earlier.

    Don't worry guys, he has a plan...Patterson CB Dolphins...nice plan...glad everyone is behind it...affraid

    Woohoo, can't wait till next year when the plan includes...Matt Barkley and/or Blaine Gabbert...yes (they can't be any worse than Patterson...can they?!?!?!)! What a Face
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by Superman55 on Thu 9 Oct 2014 - 21:02

    cysporsche wrote:I wanted to re-sign Cro-Daddy until we had a true #2 CB to take his place. The "bum" from Miami was a bad signing based on the # of teams he'a already played for. That should have been a big red flag.

    Antonio Allen actually played safety against the Chargers, not CB. They had him on Gates (I think), and Walls was the #2 CB.

    Go Jets...Cyborg

    Ouch, is that why Gates was running uncovered all game (remember the play Rivers hurt his throwing hands, he missed Gates running uncovered for what would have been a huge gain)? The coverage on Gates was high school bad.



    As Antonio Allen's role shifts, Jets need him to guard Julius Thomas better than he did Antonio Gates

    FLORHAM PARK – The Jets deployed their nickel package, with five defensive backs, often in Sunday’s 31-0 loss at San Diego, because the Chargers favored offensive formations with three wide receivers. Plus, San Diego has a tight end, Antonio Gates, who excels catching passes. In the first half, he had touchdown grabs of 8 and 12 yards.

    The use of the nickel, combined with the presence of Gates, and return of cornerback Dee Milliner from a quadriceps injury, left the Jets’ coaches shifting the role of defensive back Antonio Allen. And this is really the most accurate title that applies to Allen now – defensive back – because he could be required to play either cornerback or safety.

    The Jets’ defense played 74 snaps on Sunday. Milliner and Darrin Walls started at corner. Dawan Landry and Allen appeared to occupy the safety spots at the beginning of the game. The Jets used some three-safety alignments. But rookie Calvin Pryor, who had nursed a thigh bruise, still wound up playing 63 snaps, compared to just 25 for Allen.

    Jets coach Rex Ryan said Allen’s decreased snaps do not signal that the coaches feel displeased about him. They simply have difficult choices to make about playing time, now that the secondary is healing. Walls, who hurt his knee in San Diego, seems to be progressing toward playing Sunday against Denver and its future Hall of Fame quarterback, Peyton Manning, and dangerous tight end, Julius Thomas.

    Allen and Walls became the starting corners after Milliner sprained his ankle Aug. 10 and Dimitri Patterson got cut after blowing off a preseason game. Milliner played in just one of the Jets' first four games. Allen and Walls started all four at the outside corner spots.

    Two months later, the Jets’ coaches feel that the Milliner-Walls corner pairing suits them best. And they are not going to bench Landry or Pryor. So that leaves Allen, a safety who had to learn cornerback after Milliner got hurt, now occupying a narrower, but not unimportant, role.

    For the Chargers game, Ryan said the coaches mapped out an alignment in which Allen would play a specific assignment. Allen said this alignment was the three-safety look. Allen’s most frequent duty in San Diego involved covering Gates.

    Though Allen had worked diligently to understand an outside cornerback’s job, the position did not entirely fit him, though he had just two months to play corner.

    The week before the Chargers game, the Jets lost 24-17 to the Lions, and one of the difference makers was a 59-yard touchdown against Allen in the second quarter. He played too shallow in his alignment and got beat – a cardinal sin in the quarters coverage the Jets were using, with four defensive backs splitting the deep area of the field evenly, because Allen was responsible for a possible deep route.

    Allen had success last year limiting tight ends, most notably Rob Gronkowski of the Patriots. In today’s NFL, with pass-catching tight ends aplenty, having a defensive back of Allen’s size (6-1 and 210 pounds) who can defend these players is critical.

    “You’ve got those hybrid sort of guys, wide receivers with big bodies who can stretch the field,” Landry said. “You can’t put necessarily a corner on them, because they’re too small. You’ve got to have safeties who can cover.”

    But Allen could not handle Gates. On the first touchdown, the 8-yarder, Gates juked Allen off the line, bumped him and got clear for an easy catch. On Gates’ second score, from 12 yards, he again made a move to the outside of Allen’s alignment, and got open, this time without bumping Allen. Both catches came on third down.

    “I thought I could have sliced it a little bit more,” Allen said of his coverage on the second touchdown. “Like, when he broke out to the corner, I kind of stayed even with him instead of breaking out in front of him. I feel like if I would’ve did that, I would’ve easily picked the ball. I felt like I had a chance to get there and didn’t get there.”

    Ryan said the Jets kept Walls at the outside cornerback spot opposite Milliner, and moved Allen back to an interior coverage spot, because “we felt that Double A matched up better” with Gates. It was a reasonable notion, considering how Allen had performed in the past as a coverage safety against pass-catching tight ends.

    “We know how that worked out,” Ryan said, lamenting Gates’ two touchdowns against Allen. “But he really gave us our best shot to cover him, and obviously that didn’t work out so well.”

    The Jets will need Allen to perform better this week. The exact label on his position – cornerback or safety – matters little compared to what this matchup with the Broncos demands of him.

    Pryor said the Broncos’ prolific spread offense “is very simple,” in some ways, because “they don’t really give you too many formations.” But, Pryor said, the efficiency with which Manning changes plays at the line, based on what the defense shows, makes this offense a challenge for the Jets.

    “He might go down as the best quarterback in NFL history,” Landry said. “He’s an offensive coordinator on the field.”

    Manning also has a large slot target in Thomas, a 6-5, 250-pound tight end who ranks third on the Broncos in catches (20) and yards (226), and first in touchdowns (seven). Last year, Thomas made 65 catches for 788 yards and 12 touchdowns. Landry called Thomas “a younger version of Gates,” and also faster, since Thomas is 26 years old and Gates is 34.

    “One is going in the Hall of Fame and the other one is on his way,” Thurman said of Gates and Thomas. “If the young guy at Denver continues to play the way he has been playing, there is no reason why one day he may not be like Antonio Gates.”

    This is the latest task that awaits Allen, as his job shifts again. Ryan and Thurman believe Allen can play either safety or cornerback, based on what the situation requires. But for games against teams with tight ends like Gates and Thomas, the Jets’ coaches prefer to slot Allen into this specific, valuable role.

    “He is actually the one guy who can cover tight ends,” Thurman said. “So we use him to do what he can do best – or what we believe he can do best.”
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 10 Oct 2014 - 10:54

    I was all for dumping Cro, and still am. This juggling of CBs, though, shows how necessary it was to actually replace him. Even with a healthy Milliner, who is the CB across from him?
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 10 Oct 2014 - 11:08

    SackExchange wrote:I was all for dumping Cro, and still am. This juggling of CBs, though, shows how necessary it was to actually replace him. Even with a healthy Milliner, who is the CB across from him?

    Patterson. Walls. Wilson. Allen.

    That was the plan...at least, that's what it keeps being referenced as...
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 10 Oct 2014 - 11:11

    Superman55 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:I was all for dumping Cro, and still am. This juggling of CBs, though, shows how necessary it was to actually replace him. Even with a healthy Milliner, who is the CB across from him?

    Patterson.  Walls. Wilson.  Allen.

    That was the plan...at least, that's what it keeps being referenced as...
    That's why I was not happy when Idzik like DRC walk out the door.
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 10 Oct 2014 - 11:29

    SackExchange wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:I was all for dumping Cro, and still am. This juggling of CBs, though, shows how necessary it was to actually replace him. Even with a healthy Milliner, who is the CB across from him?

    Patterson.  Walls. Wilson.  Allen.

    That was the plan...at least, that's what it keeps being referenced as...
    That's why I was not happy when Idzik like DRC walk out the door.

    Do you like DRC?

    hobson and I have discussed him several times, and Cy and I were talking about him earlier this week. What do you honestly think of DRC?

    I honestly see him a similar inconsistent player to his cousin. I do feel he was overpaid, and him being overpaid would have hurt our chances of resigning Wilkerson now, which is why I was okay with not signing him (I still think Talib is way better and Thurmond is as good, but I love Thurmond's game, I watching him in 2012 and thought he was awesome).

    I'm just not a huge DRC fan...I dont think Hobson or Cy love him either...just better than what we have. I dont think he was teh lockdown defender papers/posters make him out to be for sure.
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 10 Oct 2014 - 12:06

    I think DRC isn't as physical as I would like, but he is athletic and has the ability to be a solid #2 CB, a fringe #1. He's also younger and healthier than his cousin. He would have been a marked improvement from what else has been put out there across from Milliner.

    Would he have been ideal? No. But Talib went to Denver. Thurmond is a bit of a walking injury report. Still think that when healthy, he's starter material, but his injuries may relegate him to permanent #3 status.

    It's not that I loved DRC. It's that I thought he was an upgrade, and certainly enough. Milliner I think is an absolutely legit #2, and like DRC a fringe #1. You can live without an elite shutdown CB if you have two guys who are 1/2's. That's how I saw Milliner and DRC fitting together.

    Instead, the oft-injured Patterson is brought in here, only to be cut, Milliner got hurt, and it's been the part-time safety Allen and Darrin Walls.

    To me, that is the strongest indictment of Idzik. His handling of the CB position has been awful. Why not go after Flowers when he was let go? Why not do SOMETHING? It won't blow up your future cap plans to address a current gaping hole.

    I'm not ready to turn on Idzik. I still think it's too early to condemn him for the 2014 draft. And many of the problems with preparation are on Rex, and not Idzik. That's not to say Idzik isn't at fault for some of the team's shortcomings. But Idzik is only in his second year. Rex has been here for more than a half-decade. If anyone is projected to improve at his job, it's more Idzik than Rex.
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by football51 on Fri 10 Oct 2014 - 12:54

    I actually think the "plan" was to integrate McDougle into the starting role opposite Milliner half way into the season and slide Patterson into the slot. The "plan" these first two years under Idzik is to get as much film on the young players we have to determine how much of a role they can have moving forward and/or sign stop gap vets to one year deals to be place holders for young players.



    I also love how the "story" is that Idzik "sat out" free agency. He signed a starting wr, starting rt, backup qb, and #2 rb. He just didn't overpay for them like offseason champs Tampa & Oakland for instance.
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 10 Oct 2014 - 14:42

    football51 wrote:I actually think the "plan" was to integrate McDougle into the starting role opposite Milliner half way into the season and slide Patterson into the slot. The "plan" these first two years under Idzik is to get as much film on the young players we have to determine how much of a role they can have moving forward and/or sign stop gap vets to one year deals to be place holders for young players.



    I also love how the "story" is that Idzik "sat out" free agency. He signed a starting wr, starting rt, backup qb, and #2 rb. He just didn't overpay for them like offseason champs Tampa & Oakland for instance.

    He signed the #1 WR on the market.  I dont think anyone is saying he sat out free agency, IMO.

    I would say I'd like to see him lock up homegrown talent though, specifically  downgrading RT from Howard to Gia, I do feel that is a confident assessment now.

    I also am not seeing movement on Wilkerson.  I'd like to see him remove the concern that he'll resign our own players.  I haven't seen that yet.

    Also, I think people wish 1-2 names were added for the holes at #2 WR & CB...I think that is a fair concern with affordable players available there last FA period as well as in the draft.  

    Sorry if I don't consider Stephen Hill and Dimitri Patterson a potential solution...
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by football51 on Fri 10 Oct 2014 - 14:48

    not fans(at least not the ones here). the media pushes the storyline that Idzik sat out free agency.

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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by Blindsidebrick on Fri 10 Oct 2014 - 21:29

    football51 wrote:not fans(at least not the ones here). the media pushes the storyline that Idzik sat out free agency.


    ^^^this^^^
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 10 Oct 2014 - 22:52

    There is something to be said for this. It's particularly important that the cap space from this year CAN be rolled over to next.

    http://grantland.com/the-triangle/new-york-jets-running-backs/
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by football51 on Sat 11 Oct 2014 - 11:01

    Here's something else along those lines Sack. From today's espnnewyork.com mail bag.




    Charlie @charlie_ryan5
    Follow
    @RichCimini is it possible that John Izdiks strategy all along has been to have this years cap space roll over, and spend in 2015? #jetsmail
    9:58 AM - 10 Oct 2014





    @RichCimini: You're right, Charlie, teams are permitted to roll over unused cap space. Right now, the Jets have about $21 million in space and only $86.6 million committed to the 2015 cap. Even if the cap remains flat at $133 million -- unlikely -- we're talking about an absurd amount of cap room, about $67 million (if they utilize the complete rollover). Let me warn you, though: This doesn't mean they will go on a wild spending spree. They will use the money on their own players (Muhammad Wilkerson, David Harris, Jeremy Kerley), buy a prominent free agent or two and continue to build through the draft. That's the Idzik model. But also remember this: From 2013 to 2017, teams are required to spend at least 89 percent of their cap, which means Idzik -- as much as it might pain him -- will have to spend more in 2015 and 2016 than he did this year.





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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by football51 on Fri 17 Oct 2014 - 13:47

    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 14h 14 hours ago
    No talent. No talent. Teams with no talent don't gain 423 yards of offense. #Jets are less talented than NE/DEN/SD, weren't one or two...



    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 14h 14 hours ago
    ...players away from being more talented than them either.
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Fri 17 Oct 2014 - 13:58

    SackExchange wrote:There is something to be said for this. It's particularly important that the cap space from this year CAN be rolled over to next.

    http://grantland.com/the-triangle/new-york-jets-running-backs/


    This gives me reason to hope.  I absolutley love it. It will take time, but this mold has been proven to work.
    It's crazy how many want this guy out of here.  Just look at the Jaguars for instance.  Their GM was hired at the same time Idzik was.  Idzik has a better record in two years than David Caldwell, yet no one wants him axed in Jax.  Woody knew what he was getting into when he signed up John.  This is the sole reason why Woody went to lengths with that private agency to hire this man.

    It's year two fellas, Idzik has a plan and most likely as the previous GM's mentioned in the article that followed the mold will have to entrust his architecture in progress to a new young gun at the helm in which a new head coach will absoltley bring in. Free agency or Draft. (Mariota, PLEASE!)
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by football51 on Fri 17 Oct 2014 - 18:33

    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 5m 5 minutes ago
    Fire the GM after 19 games. GM is running a conspiracy to get coach fired. No weapons (Decker, Ivory, Amaro, Harvin)





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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 17 Oct 2014 - 22:28

    Oh, and despite a slow start, Chris Johnson is another weapon that had been added. CJ, Ivory, Amaro, Decker, Harvin...not the best group, but FAR from the worst.

    The Jets may not be loaded, but it's a huge stretch to say they have no weapons.

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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by Lakerfan1980 on Sat 18 Oct 2014 - 6:43

    Cumberland and Kerley as well. Team has enough offensive skill to score but needs Geno to get the ball in the end zone.
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by Superman55 on Sat 18 Oct 2014 - 12:58

    Lakerfan1980 wrote:Cumberland and Kerley as well.  Team has enough offensive skill to score but needs Geno to get the ball in the end zone.


    Whoa, whoa, whoa - I know Cumberland had a nice game, but he's a #4 TE on most rosters, and most rosters don't have #4 TEs if you know what I mean.   There a reason Amaro has 60% less snaps and 300% more production...

    Calling Cumberland a legit NFL TE is like calling me a legit Olympic swimmer.  I wouldn't buy too much Cumberland stock.
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by SackExchange on Sat 18 Oct 2014 - 13:43

    I've never been a fan of Cumberland as a starter. He's an OK backup, not really better than Sudfield in some ways.

    Kerley, to me, is a seriously legit #3. He now can play that role.

    The weapons are there, and good enough.
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by football51 on Sat 18 Oct 2014 - 16:28

    Football Perspective @fbgchase · 2h 2 hours ago
    Idzik has turned Darrelle Revis and a 4th-6th round pick into Percy Harvin and Sheldon Richardson. And saved money while doing it.





    Football Perspective @fbgchase · 3h 3 hours ago
    Of course, there's a segment of the population that would criticize anything Jets do. But can you imagine if Pats traded a 6th for Harvin?




    Football Perspective @fbgchase · 3h 3 hours ago
    Wow - how anyone can do anything other than applaud Idzik for trading a 6th (that could turn into a 4th) for Percy Harvin is crazy.



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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by hobson54 on Sat 18 Oct 2014 - 16:41

    wow, good to see it's only a 6th that can become a 4th. hopefully it does become a 4th because that means harvin will be a jet next year.
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    Re: Jets organization frustrated with 2014 offseason

    Post by Superman55 on Sat 18 Oct 2014 - 19:14

    SackExchange wrote:I've never been a fan of Cumberland as a starter. He's an OK backup, not really better than Sudfield in some ways.

    Kerley, to me, is a seriously legit #3. He now can play that role.

    The weapons are there, and good enough.

    Agreed, I just wouldn't count Cumberland as one of them.

    Decker, Harvin, Kerley, CJ2K, Amaro, and even ivory (who has found his hands this year, remember, even in New Orleans they never threw him the ball) make up a nice cast of weapons.

    I wouldn't count Sudfeld, Salas, or Cumberland as anyone you would call consistent/reliable weapons.

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