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    Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 12:43

    Blindsidebrick wrote:Geno probably gets the next two or three games to show improvement, and then it's Vick time if it doesn't happen. I don't think there's any doubt Vick will be option #2.

    Geno gets the most blame, but our defense has collapsed at crucial times in recent weeks. Giving up long drives that resulted in momentum-killing TD's. And our offensive strategy seems confused at times, abandoning the run, not adjusting to the defenses adjustments, ect. Our red zone performance has been awful.

    This team is flawed. This goes beyond Geno Smith. We need at least another year before this team will be a serious playoff contender. And that's assuming Geno pulls it together.

    If the team gets to 1-6, then I'm not sure it matters, anyway. At that point, we probably know as much about Geno as we need to know, unless we lose three shootout games.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by danfran on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 12:57

    SackExchange wrote:
    Blindsidebrick wrote:Geno probably gets the next two or three games to show improvement, and then it's Vick time if it doesn't happen. I don't think there's any doubt Vick will be option #2.

    Geno gets the most blame, but our defense has collapsed at crucial times in recent weeks. Giving up long drives that resulted in momentum-killing TD's. And our offensive strategy seems confused at times, abandoning the run, not adjusting to the defenses adjustments, ect. Our red zone performance has been awful.

    This team is flawed. This goes beyond Geno Smith. We need at least another year before this team will be a serious playoff contender. And that's assuming Geno pulls it together.

    If the team gets to 1-6, then I'm not sure it matters, anyway. At that point, we probably know as much about Geno as we need to know, unless we lose three shootout games.
    The sad part is I think that ship has sailed a little bit. Good QB play could have won you any of these 3 losses. Good QB play against SD and Denver probably won't matter, as the defense will be getting shredded anyway.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 13:08

    danfran wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    Blindsidebrick wrote:Geno probably gets the next two or three games to show improvement, and then it's Vick time if it doesn't happen. I don't think there's any doubt Vick will be option #2.

    Geno gets the most blame, but our defense has collapsed at crucial times in recent weeks. Giving up long drives that resulted in momentum-killing TD's. And our offensive strategy seems confused at times, abandoning the run, not adjusting to the defenses adjustments, ect. Our red zone performance has been awful.

    This team is flawed. This goes beyond Geno Smith. We need at least another year before this team will be a serious playoff contender. And that's assuming Geno pulls it together.

    If the team gets to 1-6, then I'm not sure it matters, anyway. At that point, we probably know as much about Geno as we need to know, unless we lose three shootout games.
     The sad part is I think that ship has sailed a little bit. Good QB play could have won you any of these 3 losses. Good QB play against SD and Denver probably won't matter, as the defense will be getting shredded anyway.

    That may be true, but good secondary play wins you any of those three games, as well. All were one-score games. In each game, there was a big drive in a critical spot given up by the defense. There were also fundamental secondary breakdowns. Jordy Nelson. Jeremy Ross.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 14:24

    SackExchange wrote:I can respect that, Dan, but I do disagree. I've seen it before. I've seen the team sneak into a playoff spot.

    This team is not winning a Super Bowl this year with Geno. It's also not winning a Super Bowl with Michael Vick, or Matt Simms, or anyone else available to play QB.

    You may think the offense doesn't have any other holes, but I disagree. And you may be willing to overlook the defensive liabilities, including in the secondary, but I am not.

    I do see we have holes. Every team in the NFL has holes. I definetly am not oblivious to our aweful Cornerback situation, but as bad as they have been, Geno has been that much worse as a QB. Simple dump off passes or just taking off and running with it instead of throwing it across his body to extend a drive have set this team back this season.

    Sure we have issues with this team, but we're not the Jags , Raiders or St.Louis for that matter. We do have playmakers and a solid defensive line that can make up for an average secondary. The only bad part is that we have no pulse at QB. As Hobson stated and i'am fully on board with this, if the QB isn't playing even atleast average, then how can we assess the offensive side of the ball for 2015.

    There are plenty of blame to go around yet after a quarter of the season done with, the Jets are in a deep hole largely due to who has been at the helm this year.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 14:26

    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:You want to replace Geno with Vick because, why not?

    I have no problem putting in Simms. At least then you are gathering data on a young QB. But to me, it seems like you want Geno pulled because you don't like Geno, regardless of what is in the best interests of the organization.

    lol, cause i don't like Geno as if we went to junior high and he took my mash pototoes when i was famished on a Wednesday afternoon.
    I can't stand him because he is not a starting QB in this league Sack. Mike Vick was. Vick cannot be worse than Smith at this point.
    If i strongly didn't want the best interest of the team then i'd vouch to continue with a struggling QB who just doesn't get it.  A second rounder for that matter. A second rounder in which the team hasn't really invested much as when they drafted MARK SANCHEZ 5TH OVERALL.

    I'am just glad that by this time next year we wont be having this debate on either QB, Sack. Reason being, as long as Geno continues to start and we as fans and the Jets organization can finish "gathering their data" on him, there will be a new coach and a new young 1st round QB leading this team who actually merits the time and development to flourish in the league.

    Geno is a lost cause.

    So because Sanchez was chosen fifth, and came with a huge contract and investment, he gets four years of worse play. You didn't give up on him until that last season.

    Geno doesn't even get 20 games.

    And for the record, Geno has been better at this point in his career than Sanchez.

    Rookie seasons:

    Sanchez - 12 TDs, 20 INTs, 53.8% completions, 2,444 yards, 63.0 passer rating
    Geno - 12 TDs, 21 INTs, 55.8% completions, 3,046 yards, 66.5 passer rating

    Not to mention Geno this year has a completion percentage above 60% this season (Sanchez never had a season with a 60% completion rate), 4 TDs to 5 INTs (still not a great ratio, but far better than 12/20 or 12/21), and a passer rating of 75.1 at this point (almost identical to Sanchez's 75.3 for his entire second season).

    Sanchez was allowed to develop. Geno is not.

    This team will never actually develop a franchise QB if no growing pains are never allowed.

    That said, I understand why people are frustrated with Geno. But when people gave Sanchez opportunity after opportunity before turning on him, it's hypocritical to want to pull the plug on Geno so quickly.

    Sack, it's not hypocritical at all.  A first rounder will always the opportunity to get the benfit of the doubt more than a 2nd rounder.  There is more invested in a 1st rounder than a 2nd rounder.  Like i said before, Jimmy Clausen (2nd Rounder) vs Cam Newton (1st rounder).  The Panthers would have been laughed at if they gave more chances to Clausen to develop than Cam.

    And if Clausen had better numbers than Cam?

    Then it would be a situation like the Chargers had with Philip Rivers and Drew Brees. Yet, the franchise pulled harder for Rivers than they did for Brees.  Hece why Rivers, a 1st rounder by the Chargers organization is still in San Diego.

    And Brees and the Saints have a ring.

    Geno will never get a ring playing the way he has been so far.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 14:30

    jamesfyo123 wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:Geno is a second rounder. Unlike other 2nd rounders in Andy Dalton or Drew Brees, Geno doesn't have the mentality and QB fortitude to be a starter. The guy showcased his immaturity after yesterday's game busting out an "F-U" to a fan that possibly is sick and tired of garbage play at the QB position that has all the tools around him to succeed.

    (even Drew Brees had to be benched in favor of Doug Flutie for a little instant in San Diego)

    Rex, i like him alot as our Head coach, but him being clueless on how to handle the QB's over the years will ultimatley seal his fate this year.  Also to oppose your "This is not a win -now team". I beg to differ. The offense has all the tools to be a win now team, except for one crucial position.
    The defense, as bad as some make it out to be is doing their part keeping the team in games.  Rex Knows the team can win, yet he needs to atleast make a change at the main culprit at QB that may give this offense a jolt to get back on track, because Geno's play is purely INEPT.

    Is Vick the answer? I don't think so.  Yet, at this point why not try him out because it cannot get any worse than having Geno out there.
    Heck, put Simms in there too. Any other option has got to be better than Geno Smith.  He is by far the worst QB i have seen dawn a Jets Jersey at that QB position since Browning Nagle.
    Conversely, Geno is frustrated by a largely fickle and impatient fan base that, for the most part, doesn't know diddly about the sport, who boo and curse out their team's players because they "want a winner" (not quoting anyone here, but rather the typical defense of booing one's team for poor performance) despite the fact that booing is in direct opposition to helping anybody win, particularly when the boos come from what is supposed to be the group that rallies around the player.

    You cannot both be x and be missing a crucial component to x. The statement about the offense being win-now is not internally valid.

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    Lakerfan1980 wrote:Why is Simms seven the conversation?  He isn't the backup. The players on the field don't want to suckit up so they can get a top pick and new coach.

    Because even a ham & cheese sandwich has got to be a better option than Geno Smith giviing us a shot to win another game this year.

    Yes, Geno Smith is THAT BAD.  There is absolutley nothing that can be stated otherwise. He shows no flashes to revert the argument.

    No flashes? Did you watch the first quarter+ of the Packer game? That is the definition of a flash.

    If Geno's frustration is due to an impatient fan base, then he is spending too much time reading the back pages of news papers. He needs to focus on what he was drafted for.  Yet, IMHO, he is soft and this second year is truly beginning to showcase his true colors on what the scouting report was stating about his character.

    As far as "Flash"? How about the Chicago & Detroit game? A "Flash" vs the Pack would have been actually winning the game and not throw a costly turnover right before the 1/2. He couldn't maintain the lead. A large lead for that matter.  I call that a choke, not a "Flash".

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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by jamesfyo123 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 16:19

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    jamesfyo123 wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:Geno is a second rounder. Unlike other 2nd rounders in Andy Dalton or Drew Brees, Geno doesn't have the mentality and QB fortitude to be a starter. The guy showcased his immaturity after yesterday's game busting out an "F-U" to a fan that possibly is sick and tired of garbage play at the QB position that has all the tools around him to succeed.

    (even Drew Brees had to be benched in favor of Doug Flutie for a little instant in San Diego)

    Rex, i like him alot as our Head coach, but him being clueless on how to handle the QB's over the years will ultimatley seal his fate this year.  Also to oppose your "This is not a win -now team". I beg to differ. The offense has all the tools to be a win now team, except for one crucial position.
    The defense, as bad as some make it out to be is doing their part keeping the team in games.  Rex Knows the team can win, yet he needs to atleast make a change at the main culprit at QB that may give this offense a jolt to get back on track, because Geno's play is purely INEPT.

    Is Vick the answer? I don't think so.  Yet, at this point why not try him out because it cannot get any worse than having Geno out there.
    Heck, put Simms in there too. Any other option has got to be better than Geno Smith.  He is by far the worst QB i have seen dawn a Jets Jersey at that QB position since Browning Nagle.
    Conversely, Geno is frustrated by a largely fickle and impatient fan base that, for the most part, doesn't know diddly about the sport, who boo and curse out their team's players because they "want a winner" (not quoting anyone here, but rather the typical defense of booing one's team for poor performance) despite the fact that booing is in direct opposition to helping anybody win, particularly when the boos come from what is supposed to be the group that rallies around the player.

    You cannot both be x and be missing a crucial component to x. The statement about the offense being win-now is not internally valid.

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    Lakerfan1980 wrote:Why is Simms seven the conversation?  He isn't the backup. The players on the field don't want to suckit up so they can get a top pick and new coach.

    Because even a ham & cheese sandwich has got to be a better option than Geno Smith giviing us a shot to win another game this year.

    Yes, Geno Smith is THAT BAD.  There is absolutley nothing that can be stated otherwise. He shows no flashes to revert the argument.

    No flashes? Did you watch the first quarter+ of the Packer game? That is the definition of a flash.

    If Geno's frustration is due to an impatient fan base, then he is spending too much time reading the back pages of news papers. He needs to focus on what he was drafted for.  Yet, IMHO, he is soft and this second year is truly beginning to showcase his true colors on what the scouting report was stating about his character.

    As far as "Flash"? How about the Chicago & Detroit game? A "Flash" vs the Pack would have been actually winning the game and not throw a costly turnover right before the 1/2.  He couldn't maintain the lead. A large lead for that matter.  I call that a choke, not a "Flash".
    I don't think it has to have anything to do with reading the back pages. I think he could very easily get frustrated by the droves of people chanting for Michael Vick as Geno is trying to win a game.
    And how do you know that those reports from before the draft were true? Just as many people were saying that those reports were unfounded and he has never shown this type of behavior up to now. So how do you know that they are his "true" colors?

    I've never heard a flash refer to a whole game. Flashes can refer to as little as one good throw. He's shown more flashes than Sanchez ever did up to now and I think that we ought to make sure that we don't have anything before we get rid of him.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 16:37

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:You want to replace Geno with Vick because, why not?

    I have no problem putting in Simms. At least then you are gathering data on a young QB. But to me, it seems like you want Geno pulled because you don't like Geno, regardless of what is in the best interests of the organization.

    lol, cause i don't like Geno as if we went to junior high and he took my mash pototoes when i was famished on a Wednesday afternoon.
    I can't stand him because he is not a starting QB in this league Sack. Mike Vick was. Vick cannot be worse than Smith at this point.
    If i strongly didn't want the best interest of the team then i'd vouch to continue with a struggling QB who just doesn't get it.  A second rounder for that matter. A second rounder in which the team hasn't really invested much as when they drafted MARK SANCHEZ 5TH OVERALL.

    I'am just glad that by this time next year we wont be having this debate on either QB, Sack. Reason being, as long as Geno continues to start and we as fans and the Jets organization can finish "gathering their data" on him, there will be a new coach and a new young 1st round QB leading this team who actually merits the time and development to flourish in the league.

    Geno is a lost cause.

    So because Sanchez was chosen fifth, and came with a huge contract and investment, he gets four years of worse play. You didn't give up on him until that last season.

    Geno doesn't even get 20 games.

    And for the record, Geno has been better at this point in his career than Sanchez.

    Rookie seasons:

    Sanchez - 12 TDs, 20 INTs, 53.8% completions, 2,444 yards, 63.0 passer rating
    Geno - 12 TDs, 21 INTs, 55.8% completions, 3,046 yards, 66.5 passer rating

    Not to mention Geno this year has a completion percentage above 60% this season (Sanchez never had a season with a 60% completion rate), 4 TDs to 5 INTs (still not a great ratio, but far better than 12/20 or 12/21), and a passer rating of 75.1 at this point (almost identical to Sanchez's 75.3 for his entire second season).

    Sanchez was allowed to develop. Geno is not.

    This team will never actually develop a franchise QB if no growing pains are never allowed.

    That said, I understand why people are frustrated with Geno. But when people gave Sanchez opportunity after opportunity before turning on him, it's hypocritical to want to pull the plug on Geno so quickly.

    Sack, it's not hypocritical at all.  A first rounder will always the opportunity to get the benfit of the doubt more than a 2nd rounder.  There is more invested in a 1st rounder than a 2nd rounder.  Like i said before, Jimmy Clausen (2nd Rounder) vs Cam Newton (1st rounder).  The Panthers would have been laughed at if they gave more chances to Clausen to develop than Cam.

    And if Clausen had better numbers than Cam?

    Then it would be a situation like the Chargers had with Philip Rivers and Drew Brees. Yet, the franchise pulled harder for Rivers than they did for Brees.  Hece why Rivers, a 1st rounder by the Chargers organization is still in San Diego.

    And Brees and the Saints have a ring.

    Geno will never get a ring playing the way he has been so far.

    Perhaps, but that doesn't address the point I made. It just deflects from it.

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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by Blindsidebrick on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 16:47

    jamesfyo123 wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    jamesfyo123 wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:Geno is a second rounder. Unlike other 2nd rounders in Andy Dalton or Drew Brees, Geno doesn't have the mentality and QB fortitude to be a starter. The guy showcased his immaturity after yesterday's game busting out an "F-U" to a fan that possibly is sick and tired of garbage play at the QB position that has all the tools around him to succeed.

    (even Drew Brees had to be benched in favor of Doug Flutie for a little instant in San Diego)

    Rex, i like him alot as our Head coach, but him being clueless on how to handle the QB's over the years will ultimatley seal his fate this year.  Also to oppose your "This is not a win -now team". I beg to differ. The offense has all the tools to be a win now team, except for one crucial position.
    The defense, as bad as some make it out to be is doing their part keeping the team in games.  Rex Knows the team can win, yet he needs to atleast make a change at the main culprit at QB that may give this offense a jolt to get back on track, because Geno's play is purely INEPT.

    Is Vick the answer? I don't think so.  Yet, at this point why not try him out because it cannot get any worse than having Geno out there.
    Heck, put Simms in there too. Any other option has got to be better than Geno Smith.  He is by far the worst QB i have seen dawn a Jets Jersey at that QB position since Browning Nagle.
    Conversely, Geno is frustrated by a largely fickle and impatient fan base that, for the most part, doesn't know diddly about the sport, who boo and curse out their team's players because they "want a winner" (not quoting anyone here, but rather the typical defense of booing one's team for poor performance) despite the fact that booing is in direct opposition to helping anybody win, particularly when the boos come from what is supposed to be the group that rallies around the player.

    You cannot both be x and be missing a crucial component to x. The statement about the offense being win-now is not internally valid.

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    Lakerfan1980 wrote:Why is Simms seven the conversation?  He isn't the backup. The players on the field don't want to suckit up so they can get a top pick and new coach.

    Because even a ham & cheese sandwich has got to be a better option than Geno Smith giviing us a shot to win another game this year.

    Yes, Geno Smith is THAT BAD.  There is absolutley nothing that can be stated otherwise. He shows no flashes to revert the argument.

    No flashes? Did you watch the first quarter+ of the Packer game? That is the definition of a flash.

    If Geno's frustration is due to an impatient fan base, then he is spending too much time reading the back pages of news papers. He needs to focus on what he was drafted for.  Yet, IMHO, he is soft and this second year is truly beginning to showcase his true colors on what the scouting report was stating about his character.

    As far as "Flash"? How about the Chicago & Detroit game? A "Flash" vs the Pack would have been actually winning the game and not throw a costly turnover right before the 1/2.  He couldn't maintain the lead. A large lead for that matter.  I call that a choke, not a "Flash".
    I don't think it has to have anything to do with reading the back pages. I think he could very easily get frustrated by the droves of people chanting for Michael Vick as Geno is trying to win a game.
    And how do you know that those reports from before the draft were true? Just as many people were saying that those reports were unfounded and he has never shown this type of behavior up to now. So how do you know that they are his "true" colors?

    I've never heard a flash refer to a whole game. Flashes can refer to as little as one good throw. He's shown more flashes than Sanchez ever did up to now and I think that we ought to make sure that we don't have anything before we get rid of him.

    No question about it. Emotions run high for several days with fans and players, including a certain degree of irrationality. (Hence, the joke "fire everyone!"). Being frustrated with Geno is understandable, but calling for his benching at this stage is premature. We need to see if he can weather this storm. We need to see if this team is going to start playing better while facing adversity. The next three weeks are going to say a lot about the character of this team.

    Cliches be damned, but it's time to sink or swim.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 18:54

    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:You want to replace Geno with Vick because, why not?

    I have no problem putting in Simms. At least then you are gathering data on a young QB. But to me, it seems like you want Geno pulled because you don't like Geno, regardless of what is in the best interests of the organization.

    lol, cause i don't like Geno as if we went to junior high and he took my mash pototoes when i was famished on a Wednesday afternoon.
    I can't stand him because he is not a starting QB in this league Sack. Mike Vick was. Vick cannot be worse than Smith at this point.
    If i strongly didn't want the best interest of the team then i'd vouch to continue with a struggling QB who just doesn't get it.  A second rounder for that matter. A second rounder in which the team hasn't really invested much as when they drafted MARK SANCHEZ 5TH OVERALL.

    I'am just glad that by this time next year we wont be having this debate on either QB, Sack. Reason being, as long as Geno continues to start and we as fans and the Jets organization can finish "gathering their data" on him, there will be a new coach and a new young 1st round QB leading this team who actually merits the time and development to flourish in the league.

    Geno is a lost cause.

    So because Sanchez was chosen fifth, and came with a huge contract and investment, he gets four years of worse play. You didn't give up on him until that last season.

    Geno doesn't even get 20 games.

    And for the record, Geno has been better at this point in his career than Sanchez.

    Rookie seasons:

    Sanchez - 12 TDs, 20 INTs, 53.8% completions, 2,444 yards, 63.0 passer rating
    Geno - 12 TDs, 21 INTs, 55.8% completions, 3,046 yards, 66.5 passer rating

    Not to mention Geno this year has a completion percentage above 60% this season (Sanchez never had a season with a 60% completion rate), 4 TDs to 5 INTs (still not a great ratio, but far better than 12/20 or 12/21), and a passer rating of 75.1 at this point (almost identical to Sanchez's 75.3 for his entire second season).

    Sanchez was allowed to develop. Geno is not.

    This team will never actually develop a franchise QB if no growing pains are never allowed.

    That said, I understand why people are frustrated with Geno. But when people gave Sanchez opportunity after opportunity before turning on him, it's hypocritical to want to pull the plug on Geno so quickly.

    Sack, it's not hypocritical at all.  A first rounder will always the opportunity to get the benfit of the doubt more than a 2nd rounder.  There is more invested in a 1st rounder than a 2nd rounder.  Like i said before, Jimmy Clausen (2nd Rounder) vs Cam Newton (1st rounder).  The Panthers would have been laughed at if they gave more chances to Clausen to develop than Cam.

    And if Clausen had better numbers than Cam?

    Then it would be a situation like the Chargers had with Philip Rivers and Drew Brees. Yet, the franchise pulled harder for Rivers than they did for Brees.  Hece why Rivers, a 1st rounder by the Chargers organization is still in San Diego.

    And Brees and the Saints have a ring.

    Geno will never get a ring playing the way he has been so far.

    Perhaps, but that doesn't address the point I made. It just deflects from it.

    Not at all.  San Diego chose to retain their 1st rounder in Rivers instead of a 2nd rounder.  Therefore a franchise will always have the 1st rounders back more than a 2nd round pick QB.

    Even a QB with Brees's statute was benched.  He did pretty well, it didn't crush his psychy one bit.  Yet if Geno gets benched, many say he won't recover. So why would we even bother  giving Geno any more to work with if he's mentaly soft.

    Now we're hearing that there was an offense only meeting?? Please don't manke me laugh.  Didn't Geno pull one of these last year.  Same result.
    It's time to make a balsy statement and make a change at QB to try to salvage this season.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 21:52

    Good for San Diego. They chose the route you suggested, and don't have a ring.

    As for an offense-only meeting, I assume you're going to claim next that Geno got worse at the end of last year, instead of better.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 21:55

    SackExchange wrote:Good for San Diego. They chose the route you suggested, and don't have a ring.

    As for an offense-only meeting, I assume you're going to claim next that Geno got worse at the end of last year, instead of better.

    Let's be honest Sack, look at the teams he faced at the end of the year. The only legit team was the Panthers and he blew that one.

    Again, i will respectfully agree to disagree on this topic. You feel Geno has more to showcase, i obviously don't.
    We will see how this plays out in the coming weeks.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 22:00

    Ah, but you are looking at the teams based on record, and not as defenses. The defenses they played at the end of the year were no worse than average, and in some cases better.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 22:03

    SackExchange wrote:Ah, but you are looking at the teams based on record, and not as defenses. The defenses they played at the end of the year were no worse than average, and in some cases better.

    Then why is he playing so horrible in '14? Shouldn't he have progressed?
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 22:13

    Numerically, he has. I already cited the statistics.

    4 TDs to 5 INTs. Not a great ratio, but a hell of a lot better than 12 TDs to 21 INTs. His completion percentage is over 60%, an improvement over last year, and his passer rating is up.

    You may not think he's improved. The numbers aren't as biased, though.

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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by Old#15 on Tue 30 Sep 2014 - 7:09

    SackExchange wrote:Numerically, he has. I already cited the statistics.

    4 TDs to 5 INTs. Not a great ratio, but a hell of a lot better than 12 TDs to 21 INTs. His completion percentage is over 60%, an improvement over last year, and his passer rating is up.

    You may not think he's improved. The numbers aren't as biased, though.

    I'm not a Geno Smith apologist, but I believe at least two of his picks this year was because he was hit from behind while throwing and another was off a tipped ball.  I believe the kid needs more time, not saying he will be great but he can be a solid winning QB with the right pieces around him. Furthermore, that opinion is about as grounded in fact as any who are calling him a bust or a waste of a roster spot.

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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by Old#15 on Tue 30 Sep 2014 - 8:45

    I was just looking at playing time breakdown vs targets and receptions for last Sunday's game and a couple of things jumped out at me. First, Jeff Cumberland and Kerley were on the field for a total of 99 plays and combined for 3 targets and 1 reception, all Kerley. Next, Jace Amaro was on the field for a total of 22 plays with 5 targets and 5 receptions. Finally, Chris Ivory arguably our best RB, but worst pass catcher is targeted 6 times with 2 receptions. To me, those stats raise a bunch of questions. Were Cumberland and Kerley decoys, hurt or merely incapable of getting open? Why isn't Amaro playing more? Why do we insist on throwing to Ivory when he is a poor receiver? Is Geno not seeing all of his receiving options?

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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by LIJETFAN on Tue 30 Sep 2014 - 12:27

    I think the Jets need to exercise patience with Geno. How is Vick any better? I think it was Colin Cowherd on ESPN that cited Vicks' record in his last twenty games or so, and it was poor. And Geno had better stats. Rex said it is not just one guy, and he's right.

    I know some think Geno has no chance to turn into a good player. I still think he has a chance to become a good to very good player. He needs help around him, but the tools are there. If they pull Geno, like Buffalo did with EJ Manual, it's over for Geno in NY. And I don't think he has done enough to warrant that kind of decision 20 games into his NFL career. If they pull Geno, the Jets are back to looking for a QB in next year's draft, which means we are starting over and rebuilding the franchise again.

    Vick is not the long term answer unless he has a Vinny Testaverde like resurgence, and he was never that kind of an accomplished passer. So I think the chances of that happening are slim. I think getting Vick was an excellent decision because as a backup he can definitely step in and win games if Geno goes down. But as a starter, he is not a long term answer.

    So the question is, are the Jets thinking short or long term?

    If we are starting over with a new QB, then we are starting over with a new coaching staff in my opinion. Because the next coach is going to want to pick their own QB. I think Rex has no choice but to stay with Geno as long as he can.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by football51 on Tue 30 Sep 2014 - 14:46

    Old#15 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:Numerically, he has. I already cited the statistics.

    4 TDs to 5 INTs. Not a great ratio, but a hell of a lot better than 12 TDs to 21 INTs. His completion percentage is over 60%, an improvement over last year, and his passer rating is up.

    You may not think he's improved. The numbers aren't as biased, though.

    I'm not a Geno Smith apologist, but I believe at least two of his picks this year was because he was hit from behind while throwing and another was off a tipped ball.  I believe the kid needs more time, not saying he will be great but he can be a solid winning QB with the right pieces around him.  Furthermore, that opinion is about as grounded in fact as any who are calling him a bust or a waste of a roster spot.





    I'm not holding the Charles Woodson pick against him either. That was just a terrific play by a future first ballot HOF'er.

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