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    Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

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    Old#15
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by Old#15 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 10:19

    The one general observation that I have for all 4 games so far is that we appear to have a decent plan going in to the games, but we don't have answers or adjustments during the games.  Opposing coaches have come up with plus adjustments to counter what we are successful at, and we haven't been able to adjust.  To me that (poor game day coaching) has been Rex's MO and Achilles heel in his tenure as HC. That coupled with a lack of impact plays across the board on all 3 phases of the game is killing us. To put all of the blame on a young QBs' shoulders is missing the obvious IMHO. The problems run much deeper.


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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by trico990 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 10:21

    I don't really have a strong opinion on the Geno/Vick thing. I probably would be calling for a benching if we had a young QB coming in instedd of Vick, so I'm clearly on the fence. What does really concern me that I saw for the first time yesterday was Geno's heads down aw shucks demeanor I saw on the sideline. I hate to say this but that was the same look Sanchez had when things started going sideways. Not a good sign for Geno.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 10:25

    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    Lakerfan1980 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:I don't know why Vick was brought in here, either. What Geno needs to learn, Vick can't teach him. He can't teach Geno about ball protection, since he has none himself.

    If people are done with Geno, fine. I think it's premature. But if you are going to pull the plug on him in a lost cause of a season, at least go with Simms over Vick.

    Vick is not an interception machine, makes good decisions when throwing the ball and is not afraid.  His problem is bad decisions running the ball and fumbling.  Simms won't get the call if Geno is benched(and he should be), Vick will and I have confidence if he is protected he will score touchdowns.....Vick sees Decker on that 3rd down play and has the courage to make the throw.

    Double digit INTs in 5 of 7 seasons in which he started more than half the games. One season with a completion percentage over 60%. 9 or more fumbles in seven seasons.

    His turnover problems are as much fumbles as they are INTs, but Dan's point was that he was sick of Geno being a turnover machine, and instead wanted to turn to Vick. I don't see how going from Geno to Vick eliminates the turnovers.

    Point is, Geno may not be the long-term answer, but Vick definitely isn't.

    I want to turn to Vick because he is a veteran. Something the Jets havent had at the back up position in a long time.  Vick is no rookie. He's been at the highest of high's and the lowest of low's.
    Saying that, he had one of his best statistical seasons with our current O.C.  Stats can be thrown every where.  If that's the case on Vick then Vinny Testaverde should have never been succesful in a Jets uniform because he was one of the worst TD-Interception ratio QB when he was in Tampa.

    All i'am saying is that Vick can spark this anemic offense.  We have at this point no production at the QB position with Geno.  Maybe if Vick has a chance, he can have one last stellar season instead of wasting a season in trying to develop a 2nd rounder who just doesn't get it.

    To the argument of Sanchez getting 4 years and Geno 1.25.  Sanchez was a 1st rounder, Geno a 2nd.  It's like being the Panthers head coach after drafting Cam Newton and telling him, you have to wait your turn, we're still in the middle of trying to develop Jimmy Clausen.  
    2nd rounders and 1st rounder QB's will have different length leashes. A coach can survive giving up on a 2nd round QB after year two.  Not a 1st rounder.  This is where Rex's future hangs in the balance.  Does he still feel Geno is the answer or will he just want to win this season placing Vick in, in which gives the team a better chance to win this year and maybe save Rex's job.

    The team is 1-3 and still very much in line to make a run at the playoffs if a switch is made at QB. Yet if we stick with Geno, nothing will change.

    Why go with a veteran if the season is lost? And even if the season isn't lost, more can be gained from playing the younger QB. This is NOT a win-now team! It's not!

    And this incessant argument that because Geno is turning the ball over a lot, we should go with Vick is just moronic. Anyone...anyone...who has followed Vick's career has seen the turnover machine he has been, both with picks and fumbles.

    Again, why are you treating Geno as if he was a top five pick? Geno to gain experience for what?  The guy is no better than a back up QB in the league. Do we want to get his share of starts so that he can be an adequate back up to next year's 1st round draft pick?
    Geno is a second rounder. Unlike other 2nd rounders in Andy Dalton or Drew Brees, Geno doesn't have the mentality and QB fortitude to be a starter. The guy showcased his immaturity after yesterday's game busting out an "F-U" to a fan that possibly is sick and tired of garbage play at the QB position that has all the tools around him to succeed.

    (even Drew Brees had to be benched in favor of Doug Flutie for a little instant in San Diego)

    Rex, i like him alot as our Head coach, but him being clueless on how to handle the QB's over the years will ultimatley seal his fate this year.  Also to oppose your "This is not a win -now team". I beg to differ. The offense has all the tools to be a win now team, except for one crucial position.
    The defense, as bad as some make it out to be is doing their part keeping the team in games.  Rex Knows the team can win, yet he needs to atleast make a change at the main culprit at QB that may give this offense a jolt to get back on track, because Geno's play is purely INEPT.

    Is Vick the answer? I don't think so.  Yet, at this point why not try him out because it cannot get any worse than having Geno out there.
    Heck, put Simms in there too. Any other option has got to be better than Geno Smith.  He is by far the worst QB i have seen dawn a Jets Jersey at that QB position since Browning Nagle.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 10:41

    You want to replace Geno with Vick because, why not?

    I have no problem putting in Simms. At least then you are gathering data on a young QB. But to me, it seems like you want Geno pulled because you don't like Geno, regardless of what is in the best interests of the organization.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 10:43

    And the notion that this can be a championship team aside from one position is laughable. Geno is the only issue on offense?

    It's tough to reasonably discuss anything with that as a premise.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 10:47

    SackExchange wrote:You want to replace Geno with Vick because, why not?

    I have no problem putting in Simms. At least then you are gathering data on a young QB. But to me, it seems like you want Geno pulled because you don't like Geno, regardless of what is in the best interests of the organization.

    lol, cause i don't like Geno as if we went to junior high and he took my mash pototoes when i was famished on a Wednesday afternoon.
    I can't stand him because he is not a starting QB in this league Sack. Mike Vick was. Vick cannot be worse than Smith at this point.
    If i strongly didn't want the best interest of the team then i'd vouch to continue with a struggling QB who just doesn't get it.  A second rounder for that matter. A second rounder in which the team hasn't really invested much as when they drafted MARK SANCHEZ 5TH OVERALL.

    I'am just glad that by this time next year we wont be having this debate on either QB, Sack. Reason being, as long as Geno continues to start and we as fans and the Jets organization can finish "gathering their data" on him, there will be a new coach and a new young 1st round QB leading this team who actually merits the time and development to flourish in the league.

    Geno is a lost cause.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 10:57

    SackExchange wrote:And the notion that this can be a championship team aside from one position is laughable. Geno is the only issue on offense?

    It's tough to reasonably discuss anything with that as a premise.

    Championship team? Who said Championship team, Sack? I said the team has all the tools to "WIN-NOW". Two legit RB's. A decent Wide receiving core including tight ends along side a solid O-Line wouldn't merit a team that can win now against anyone if better QB was being demonstrated?
    We can be atleast comptetive on that side of the ball that would compliment a defense that keeps us in games my friend.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:02

    Though there was a post on the "other board" in which had me thinking and hell who knows what goes on behind the scenes.  It may be a possibilty. Here it is:

    liwvu13 wrote: "Vick was brought in to be a mentor for Geno (which he didn't have last year) and to be a quality backup if Geno got hurt.  Thats it. He was never going to be the starter because he wasn't about the Jets future and he knows and understands that.   For Idzik,in his mind this season was going to play out 1 or 2 ways.

    1. Geno would flourish and  become our franchise QB

    2. Geno would fail and Idzik could go after another QB in the draft.  Theoretically this would also mean that the Jets would have a bad record and high pick.

    Believe it or not, the last thing Idzik would want is for Vick to come in and win games, as crazy as that sounds.  Because if that happens, the Jets still don't have their QB of the future and wouldn't have a high pick the draft."



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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by hobson54 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:03

    SackExchange wrote:You want to replace Geno with Vick because, why not?

    I have no problem putting in Simms. At least then you are gathering data on a young QB. But to me, it seems like you want Geno pulled because you don't like Geno, regardless of what is in the best interests of the organization.


    for the record, i did not see the game yesterday. i taped it, but after seeing the final score, decided not to subject myself to watching it.

    i'm not ready to pull the plug on geno yet. but if that time comes, i think you put in vick, not simms. and the reason is because there are 50 other players on the roster (non-QBs) who should be put in the best position to win. and if we are being honest with ourselves, vick would give the jets the best chance to win versus throwing simms out there. yes, we need to evaluate the QB position. but we also need to evaluate the other positions on the field, and putting in a practice squad caliber QB isn't gonna give you the best picture of your line, your RBs, WRs and TEs and isn't putting the defense in the best position to perform.

    now i recognize that to some, this could be a call to play vick right away. and that is a valid argument. so it may be a bit contradictory of me to say to stick with geno, but also say to play vick over simms to give the team the "best chance to win". but to me, geno still has potential to be a long-term solution (albeit that potential is rapidly dwindling in my eyes). but if it comes time to bench geno (either permanently, or even temporarily), you put vick in, not simms.

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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by Lakerfan1980 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:04

    Why is Simms seven the conversation? He isn't the backup. The players on the field don't want to suckit up so they can get a top pick and new coach.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:09

    Lakerfan1980 wrote:Why is Simms seven the conversation?  He isn't the backup. The players on the field don't want to suckit up so they can get a top pick and new coach.

    Because even a ham & cheese sandwich has got to be a better option than Geno Smith giviing us a shot to win another game this year.

    Yes, Geno Smith is THAT BAD. There is absolutley nothing that can be stated otherwise. He shows no flashes to revert the argument.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:13

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:Though there was a post on the "other board" in which had me thinking and hell who knows what goes on behind the scenes.  It may be a possibilty. Here it is:

    liwvu13 wrote: "Vick was brought in to be a mentor for Geno (which he didn't have last year) and to be a quality backup if Geno got hurt.  Thats it. He was never going to be the starter because he wasn't about the Jets future and he knows and understands that.   For Idzik,in his mind this season was going to play out 1 or 2 ways.

    1. Geno would flourish and  become our franchise QB

    2. Geno would fail and Idzik could go after another QB in the draft.  Theoretically this would also mean that the Jets would have a bad record and high pick.

    Believe it or not, the last thing Idzik would want is for Vick to come in and win games, as crazy as that sounds.  Because if that happens, the Jets still don't have their QB of the future and wouldn't have a high pick the draft."




    I honestly think that's the case. I never, ever understood the Vick signing. He's not a great mentor for Geno. He turns the ball over, makes bad decisions, tucks it and runs way too quickly, and has a low completion percentage. The guy makes up for his mental mistakes with physical ability. So why have him as a mentor?

    I know Geno is infuriating. He's infuriating to me. But I don't think this team is ready to compete for a title, regardless of which QB is out there. Isn't that what this is about? Isn't it about building a Super Bowl team, and not just cashing in the future for a wild card this year?

    That is why my choices for starting are:

    1. Geno
    2. Simms
    3. Vick

    What you are saying, and what hobson is saying, and LakerFan, is understandable. I get why you are frustrated. I guess I'm just more interested in the long-term than in the short-term.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:16

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:And the notion that this can be a championship team aside from one position is laughable. Geno is the only issue on offense?

    It's tough to reasonably discuss anything with that as a premise.

    Championship team? Who said Championship team, Sack? I said the team has all the tools to "WIN-NOW".  Two legit RB's. A decent Wide receiving core including tight ends along side a solid O-Line wouldn't merit a team that can win now against anyone if better QB was being demonstrated?
    We can be atleast comptetive on that side of the ball that would compliment a defense that keeps us in games my friend.

    Which would you prefer? The Jets are competitive now and remain at that level, or they tank it now and build to a true championship caliber?

    If it's not about being championship quality, what difference does it make? I like making the playoffs, too, but we've seen it. We've seen two AFC title games. We've seen a couple division titles.

    I don't care about competing for a wild card, especially if it stunts the long-term goal of being truly championship-caliber.

    Otherwise, what are we talking about when we say "win now?" Win what? 8 or 9 games? One wild card round, maybe?
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:18

    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:Though there was a post on the "other board" in which had me thinking and hell who knows what goes on behind the scenes.  It may be a possibilty. Here it is:

    liwvu13 wrote: "Vick was brought in to be a mentor for Geno (which he didn't have last year) and to be a quality backup if Geno got hurt.  Thats it. He was never going to be the starter because he wasn't about the Jets future and he knows and understands that.   For Idzik,in his mind this season was going to play out 1 or 2 ways.

    1. Geno would flourish and  become our franchise QB

    2. Geno would fail and Idzik could go after another QB in the draft.  Theoretically this would also mean that the Jets would have a bad record and high pick.

    Believe it or not, the last thing Idzik would want is for Vick to come in and win games, as crazy as that sounds.  Because if that happens, the Jets still don't have their QB of the future and wouldn't have a high pick the draft."


    Agreed partner. I want a long term solution as well and i feel like we may have it with Geno out on the pitch. We will probably have a high draft pick and i'am sure the new sheriff in town would want his own young gun to lead this franchise.
    Though i would really want to see what this offense can look like(production wise) if Vick was in there.




    I honestly think that's the case. I never, ever understood the Vick signing. He's not a great mentor for Geno. He turns the ball over, makes bad decisions, tucks it and runs way too quickly, and has a low completion percentage. The guy makes up for his mental mistakes with physical ability. So why have him as a mentor?

    I know Geno is infuriating. He's infuriating to me. But I don't think this team is ready to compete for a title, regardless of which QB is out there. Isn't that what this is about? Isn't it about building a Super Bowl team, and not just cashing in the future for a wild card this year?

    That is why my choices for starting are:

    1. Geno
    2. Simms
    3. Vick

    What you are saying, and what hobson is saying, and LakerFan, is understandable. I get why you are frustrated. I guess I'm just more interested in the long-term than in the short-term.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:22

    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:And the notion that this can be a championship team aside from one position is laughable. Geno is the only issue on offense?

    It's tough to reasonably discuss anything with that as a premise.

    Championship team? Who said Championship team, Sack? I said the team has all the tools to "WIN-NOW".  Two legit RB's. A decent Wide receiving core including tight ends along side a solid O-Line wouldn't merit a team that can win now against anyone if better QB was being demonstrated?
    We can be atleast comptetive on that side of the ball that would compliment a defense that keeps us in games my friend.

    Which would you prefer? The Jets are competitive now and remain at that level, or they tank it now and build to a true championship caliber?

    If it's not about being championship quality, what difference does it make? I like making the playoffs, too, but we've seen it. We've seen two AFC title games. We've seen a couple division titles.

    I don't care about competing for a wild card, especially if it stunts the long-term goal of being truly championship-caliber.

    Otherwise, what are we talking about when we say "win now?" Win what? 8 or 9 games? One wild card round, maybe?

    Sack we all know anything can happen once a team is in the playoffs even if they shouldn't be in it.  Just look at the Giants in '11. A 9-7 record, 6th seed and won the Superbowl.
    There have been teams every year at the top of the draft never getting any where.  Why not make a switch and atleast have some sort of excitement and to Greg's point, we can begin to evaluate other positions on offense a little bit better.

    Sack, last year we had nothing on offense and we still pulled away with 8 wins. This years we have Decker, CJ2K, A Healthy Chris Ivory & Jeff Cumberland. Jace Amaro. A compliment of receivers that can actually catch. Who knows, maybe Vick can make this team relevant this year.

    I just hate seeing absolutley no hope watching Geno Smith. The only silver lining is a top five draft pick QB.


    Last edited by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:26; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:25

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:You want to replace Geno with Vick because, why not?

    I have no problem putting in Simms. At least then you are gathering data on a young QB. But to me, it seems like you want Geno pulled because you don't like Geno, regardless of what is in the best interests of the organization.

    lol, cause i don't like Geno as if we went to junior high and he took my mash pototoes when i was famished on a Wednesday afternoon.
    I can't stand him because he is not a starting QB in this league Sack. Mike Vick was. Vick cannot be worse than Smith at this point.
    If i strongly didn't want the best interest of the team then i'd vouch to continue with a struggling QB who just doesn't get it.  A second rounder for that matter. A second rounder in which the team hasn't really invested much as when they drafted MARK SANCHEZ 5TH OVERALL.

    I'am just glad that by this time next year we wont be having this debate on either QB, Sack. Reason being, as long as Geno continues to start and we as fans and the Jets organization can finish "gathering their data" on him, there will be a new coach and a new young 1st round QB leading this team who actually merits the time and development to flourish in the league.

    Geno is a lost cause.

    So because Sanchez was chosen fifth, and came with a huge contract and investment, he gets four years of worse play. You didn't give up on him until that last season.

    Geno doesn't even get 20 games.

    And for the record, Geno has been better at this point in his career than Sanchez.

    Rookie seasons:

    Sanchez - 12 TDs, 20 INTs, 53.8% completions, 2,444 yards, 63.0 passer rating
    Geno - 12 TDs, 21 INTs, 55.8% completions, 3,046 yards, 66.5 passer rating

    Not to mention Geno this year has a completion percentage above 60% this season (Sanchez never had a season with a 60% completion rate), 4 TDs to 5 INTs (still not a great ratio, but far better than 12/20 or 12/21), and a passer rating of 75.1 at this point (almost identical to Sanchez's 75.3 for his entire second season).

    Sanchez was allowed to develop. Geno is not.

    This team will never actually develop a franchise QB if no growing pains are never allowed.

    That said, I understand why people are frustrated with Geno. But when people gave Sanchez opportunity after opportunity before turning on him, it's hypocritical to want to pull the plug on Geno so quickly.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:29

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:And the notion that this can be a championship team aside from one position is laughable. Geno is the only issue on offense?

    It's tough to reasonably discuss anything with that as a premise.

    Championship team? Who said Championship team, Sack? I said the team has all the tools to "WIN-NOW".  Two legit RB's. A decent Wide receiving core including tight ends along side a solid O-Line wouldn't merit a team that can win now against anyone if better QB was being demonstrated?
    We can be atleast comptetive on that side of the ball that would compliment a defense that keeps us in games my friend.

    Which would you prefer? The Jets are competitive now and remain at that level, or they tank it now and build to a true championship caliber?

    If it's not about being championship quality, what difference does it make? I like making the playoffs, too, but we've seen it. We've seen two AFC title games. We've seen a couple division titles.

    I don't care about competing for a wild card, especially if it stunts the long-term goal of being truly championship-caliber.

    Otherwise, what are we talking about when we say "win now?" Win what? 8 or 9 games? One wild card round, maybe?

    Sack we all know anything can happen once a team is in the playoffs even if they shouldn't be in it.  Just look at the Giants in '11. A 9-7 record, 6th seed and won the Superbowl.
    There have been teams every year at the top of the draft never getting any where.  Why not make a switch and atleast have some sort of excitement.

    So rather than be patient and try to build a sustained winner, you'd rather throw the dice with squeaking into the playoffs?

    Since the Jets last won the SB, they have made the playoffs 13 times, with 2 division titles. How many of those times did the Jets get hot and win it all, or even make the SB?

    Sorry, but my choice would be to sacrifice this season for the benefit of the long term, rather than hoping and praying that they sneak into the sixth spot and then get hot and win it all.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:29

    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:You want to replace Geno with Vick because, why not?

    I have no problem putting in Simms. At least then you are gathering data on a young QB. But to me, it seems like you want Geno pulled because you don't like Geno, regardless of what is in the best interests of the organization.

    lol, cause i don't like Geno as if we went to junior high and he took my mash pototoes when i was famished on a Wednesday afternoon.
    I can't stand him because he is not a starting QB in this league Sack. Mike Vick was. Vick cannot be worse than Smith at this point.
    If i strongly didn't want the best interest of the team then i'd vouch to continue with a struggling QB who just doesn't get it.  A second rounder for that matter. A second rounder in which the team hasn't really invested much as when they drafted MARK SANCHEZ 5TH OVERALL.

    I'am just glad that by this time next year we wont be having this debate on either QB, Sack. Reason being, as long as Geno continues to start and we as fans and the Jets organization can finish "gathering their data" on him, there will be a new coach and a new young 1st round QB leading this team who actually merits the time and development to flourish in the league.

    Geno is a lost cause.

    So because Sanchez was chosen fifth, and came with a huge contract and investment, he gets four years of worse play. You didn't give up on him until that last season.

    Geno doesn't even get 20 games.

    And for the record, Geno has been better at this point in his career than Sanchez.

    Rookie seasons:

    Sanchez - 12 TDs, 20 INTs, 53.8% completions, 2,444 yards, 63.0 passer rating
    Geno - 12 TDs, 21 INTs, 55.8% completions, 3,046 yards, 66.5 passer rating

    Not to mention Geno this year has a completion percentage above 60% this season (Sanchez never had a season with a 60% completion rate), 4 TDs to 5 INTs (still not a great ratio, but far better than 12/20 or 12/21), and a passer rating of 75.1 at this point (almost identical to Sanchez's 75.3 for his entire second season).

    Sanchez was allowed to develop. Geno is not.

    This team will never actually develop a franchise QB if no growing pains are never allowed.

    That said, I understand why people are frustrated with Geno. But when people gave Sanchez opportunity after opportunity before turning on him, it's hypocritical to want to pull the plug on Geno so quickly.

    Sack, it's not hypocritical at all. A first rounder will always the opportunity to get the benfit of the doubt more than a 2nd rounder. There is more invested in a 1st rounder than a 2nd rounder. Like i said before, Jimmy Clausen (2nd Rounder) vs Cam Newton (1st rounder). The Panthers would have been laughed at if they gave more chances to Clausen to develop than Cam.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:31

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:You want to replace Geno with Vick because, why not?

    I have no problem putting in Simms. At least then you are gathering data on a young QB. But to me, it seems like you want Geno pulled because you don't like Geno, regardless of what is in the best interests of the organization.

    lol, cause i don't like Geno as if we went to junior high and he took my mash pototoes when i was famished on a Wednesday afternoon.
    I can't stand him because he is not a starting QB in this league Sack. Mike Vick was. Vick cannot be worse than Smith at this point.
    If i strongly didn't want the best interest of the team then i'd vouch to continue with a struggling QB who just doesn't get it.  A second rounder for that matter. A second rounder in which the team hasn't really invested much as when they drafted MARK SANCHEZ 5TH OVERALL.

    I'am just glad that by this time next year we wont be having this debate on either QB, Sack. Reason being, as long as Geno continues to start and we as fans and the Jets organization can finish "gathering their data" on him, there will be a new coach and a new young 1st round QB leading this team who actually merits the time and development to flourish in the league.

    Geno is a lost cause.

    So because Sanchez was chosen fifth, and came with a huge contract and investment, he gets four years of worse play. You didn't give up on him until that last season.

    Geno doesn't even get 20 games.

    And for the record, Geno has been better at this point in his career than Sanchez.

    Rookie seasons:

    Sanchez - 12 TDs, 20 INTs, 53.8% completions, 2,444 yards, 63.0 passer rating
    Geno - 12 TDs, 21 INTs, 55.8% completions, 3,046 yards, 66.5 passer rating

    Not to mention Geno this year has a completion percentage above 60% this season (Sanchez never had a season with a 60% completion rate), 4 TDs to 5 INTs (still not a great ratio, but far better than 12/20 or 12/21), and a passer rating of 75.1 at this point (almost identical to Sanchez's 75.3 for his entire second season).

    Sanchez was allowed to develop. Geno is not.

    This team will never actually develop a franchise QB if no growing pains are never allowed.

    That said, I understand why people are frustrated with Geno. But when people gave Sanchez opportunity after opportunity before turning on him, it's hypocritical to want to pull the plug on Geno so quickly.

    Sack, it's not hypocritical at all.  A first rounder will always the opportunity to get the benfit of the doubt more than a 2nd rounder.  There is more invested in a 1st rounder than a 2nd rounder.  Like i said before, Jimmy Clausen (2nd Rounder) vs Cam Newton (1st rounder).  The Panthers would have been laughed at if they gave more chances to Clausen to develop than Cam.

    And if Clausen had better numbers than Cam?
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:31

    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:And the notion that this can be a championship team aside from one position is laughable. Geno is the only issue on offense?

    It's tough to reasonably discuss anything with that as a premise.

    Championship team? Who said Championship team, Sack? I said the team has all the tools to "WIN-NOW".  Two legit RB's. A decent Wide receiving core including tight ends along side a solid O-Line wouldn't merit a team that can win now against anyone if better QB was being demonstrated?
    We can be atleast comptetive on that side of the ball that would compliment a defense that keeps us in games my friend.

    Which would you prefer? The Jets are competitive now and remain at that level, or they tank it now and build to a true championship caliber?

    If it's not about being championship quality, what difference does it make? I like making the playoffs, too, but we've seen it. We've seen two AFC title games. We've seen a couple division titles.

    I don't care about competing for a wild card, especially if it stunts the long-term goal of being truly championship-caliber.

    Otherwise, what are we talking about when we say "win now?" Win what? 8 or 9 games? One wild card round, maybe?

    Sack we all know anything can happen once a team is in the playoffs even if they shouldn't be in it.  Just look at the Giants in '11. A 9-7 record, 6th seed and won the Superbowl.
    There have been teams every year at the top of the draft never getting any where.  Why not make a switch and atleast have some sort of excitement.

    So rather than be patient and try to build a sustained winner, you'd rather throw the dice with squeaking into the playoffs?

    Since the Jets last won the SB, they have made the playoffs 13 times, with 2 division titles. How many of those times did the Jets get hot and win it all, or even make the SB?

    Sorry, but my choice would be to sacrifice this season for the benefit of the long term, rather than hoping and praying that they sneak into the sixth spot and then get hot and win it all.

    If we have an opportunity to be competitive this year and atleast have that "Chance" then no chance at all with Geno to make this season worth something then I will politley Agree to disagree.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:33

    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:You want to replace Geno with Vick because, why not?

    I have no problem putting in Simms. At least then you are gathering data on a young QB. But to me, it seems like you want Geno pulled because you don't like Geno, regardless of what is in the best interests of the organization.

    lol, cause i don't like Geno as if we went to junior high and he took my mash pototoes when i was famished on a Wednesday afternoon.
    I can't stand him because he is not a starting QB in this league Sack. Mike Vick was. Vick cannot be worse than Smith at this point.
    If i strongly didn't want the best interest of the team then i'd vouch to continue with a struggling QB who just doesn't get it.  A second rounder for that matter. A second rounder in which the team hasn't really invested much as when they drafted MARK SANCHEZ 5TH OVERALL.

    I'am just glad that by this time next year we wont be having this debate on either QB, Sack. Reason being, as long as Geno continues to start and we as fans and the Jets organization can finish "gathering their data" on him, there will be a new coach and a new young 1st round QB leading this team who actually merits the time and development to flourish in the league.

    Geno is a lost cause.

    So because Sanchez was chosen fifth, and came with a huge contract and investment, he gets four years of worse play. You didn't give up on him until that last season.

    Geno doesn't even get 20 games.

    And for the record, Geno has been better at this point in his career than Sanchez.

    Rookie seasons:

    Sanchez - 12 TDs, 20 INTs, 53.8% completions, 2,444 yards, 63.0 passer rating
    Geno - 12 TDs, 21 INTs, 55.8% completions, 3,046 yards, 66.5 passer rating

    Not to mention Geno this year has a completion percentage above 60% this season (Sanchez never had a season with a 60% completion rate), 4 TDs to 5 INTs (still not a great ratio, but far better than 12/20 or 12/21), and a passer rating of 75.1 at this point (almost identical to Sanchez's 75.3 for his entire second season).

    Sanchez was allowed to develop. Geno is not.

    This team will never actually develop a franchise QB if no growing pains are never allowed.

    That said, I understand why people are frustrated with Geno. But when people gave Sanchez opportunity after opportunity before turning on him, it's hypocritical to want to pull the plug on Geno so quickly.

    Sack, it's not hypocritical at all.  A first rounder will always the opportunity to get the benfit of the doubt more than a 2nd rounder.  There is more invested in a 1st rounder than a 2nd rounder.  Like i said before, Jimmy Clausen (2nd Rounder) vs Cam Newton (1st rounder).  The Panthers would have been laughed at if they gave more chances to Clausen to develop than Cam.

    And if Clausen had better numbers than Cam?

    Then it would be a situation like the Chargers had with Philip Rivers and Drew Brees. Yet, the franchise pulled harder for Rivers than they did for Brees.  Hence why Rivers, a 1st rounder by the Chargers organization is still in San Diego.


    Last edited by NYJETSDAN16 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:34; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:33

    I can respect that, Dan, but I do disagree. I've seen it before. I've seen the team sneak into a playoff spot.

    This team is not winning a Super Bowl this year with Geno. It's also not winning a Super Bowl with Michael Vick, or Matt Simms, or anyone else available to play QB.

    You may think the offense doesn't have any other holes, but I disagree. And you may be willing to overlook the defensive liabilities, including in the secondary, but I am not.
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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 11:34

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:You want to replace Geno with Vick because, why not?

    I have no problem putting in Simms. At least then you are gathering data on a young QB. But to me, it seems like you want Geno pulled because you don't like Geno, regardless of what is in the best interests of the organization.

    lol, cause i don't like Geno as if we went to junior high and he took my mash pototoes when i was famished on a Wednesday afternoon.
    I can't stand him because he is not a starting QB in this league Sack. Mike Vick was. Vick cannot be worse than Smith at this point.
    If i strongly didn't want the best interest of the team then i'd vouch to continue with a struggling QB who just doesn't get it.  A second rounder for that matter. A second rounder in which the team hasn't really invested much as when they drafted MARK SANCHEZ 5TH OVERALL.

    I'am just glad that by this time next year we wont be having this debate on either QB, Sack. Reason being, as long as Geno continues to start and we as fans and the Jets organization can finish "gathering their data" on him, there will be a new coach and a new young 1st round QB leading this team who actually merits the time and development to flourish in the league.

    Geno is a lost cause.

    So because Sanchez was chosen fifth, and came with a huge contract and investment, he gets four years of worse play. You didn't give up on him until that last season.

    Geno doesn't even get 20 games.

    And for the record, Geno has been better at this point in his career than Sanchez.

    Rookie seasons:

    Sanchez - 12 TDs, 20 INTs, 53.8% completions, 2,444 yards, 63.0 passer rating
    Geno - 12 TDs, 21 INTs, 55.8% completions, 3,046 yards, 66.5 passer rating

    Not to mention Geno this year has a completion percentage above 60% this season (Sanchez never had a season with a 60% completion rate), 4 TDs to 5 INTs (still not a great ratio, but far better than 12/20 or 12/21), and a passer rating of 75.1 at this point (almost identical to Sanchez's 75.3 for his entire second season).

    Sanchez was allowed to develop. Geno is not.

    This team will never actually develop a franchise QB if no growing pains are never allowed.

    That said, I understand why people are frustrated with Geno. But when people gave Sanchez opportunity after opportunity before turning on him, it's hypocritical to want to pull the plug on Geno so quickly.

    Sack, it's not hypocritical at all.  A first rounder will always the opportunity to get the benfit of the doubt more than a 2nd rounder.  There is more invested in a 1st rounder than a 2nd rounder.  Like i said before, Jimmy Clausen (2nd Rounder) vs Cam Newton (1st rounder).  The Panthers would have been laughed at if they gave more chances to Clausen to develop than Cam.

    And if Clausen had better numbers than Cam?

    Then it would be a situation like the Chargers had with Philip Rivers and Drew Brees. Yet, the franchise pulled harder for Rivers than they did for Brees.  Hece why Rivers, a 1st rounder by the Chargers organization is still in San Diego.

    And Brees and the Saints have a ring.

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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by jamesfyo123 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 12:30

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:Geno is a second rounder. Unlike other 2nd rounders in Andy Dalton or Drew Brees, Geno doesn't have the mentality and QB fortitude to be a starter. The guy showcased his immaturity after yesterday's game busting out an "F-U" to a fan that possibly is sick and tired of garbage play at the QB position that has all the tools around him to succeed.

    (even Drew Brees had to be benched in favor of Doug Flutie for a little instant in San Diego)

    Rex, i like him alot as our Head coach, but him being clueless on how to handle the QB's over the years will ultimatley seal his fate this year.  Also to oppose your "This is not a win -now team". I beg to differ. The offense has all the tools to be a win now team, except for one crucial position.
    The defense, as bad as some make it out to be is doing their part keeping the team in games.  Rex Knows the team can win, yet he needs to atleast make a change at the main culprit at QB that may give this offense a jolt to get back on track, because Geno's play is purely INEPT.

    Is Vick the answer? I don't think so.  Yet, at this point why not try him out because it cannot get any worse than having Geno out there.
    Heck, put Simms in there too. Any other option has got to be better than Geno Smith.  He is by far the worst QB i have seen dawn a Jets Jersey at that QB position since Browning Nagle.
    Conversely, Geno is frustrated by a largely fickle and impatient fan base that, for the most part, doesn't know diddly about the sport, who boo and curse out their team's players because they "want a winner" (not quoting anyone here, but rather the typical defense of booing one's team for poor performance) despite the fact that booing is in direct opposition to helping anybody win, particularly when the boos come from what is supposed to be the group that rallies around the player.

    You cannot both be x and be missing a crucial component to x. The statement about the offense being win-now is not internally valid.

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:
    Lakerfan1980 wrote:Why is Simms seven the conversation?  He isn't the backup. The players on the field don't want to suckit up so they can get a top pick and new coach.

    Because even a ham & cheese sandwich has got to be a better option than Geno Smith giviing us a shot to win another game this year.

    Yes, Geno Smith is THAT BAD.  There is absolutley nothing that can be stated otherwise. He shows no flashes to revert the argument.

    No flashes? Did you watch the first quarter+ of the Packer game? That is the definition of a flash.


    Last edited by jamesfyo123 on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 12:33; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: Detroit Lions @ New York Jets (CBS)- 1pm

    Post by Blindsidebrick on Mon 29 Sep 2014 - 12:32

    Geno probably gets the next two or three games to show improvement, and then it's Vick time if it doesn't happen. I don't think there's any doubt Vick will be option #2.

    Geno gets the most blame, but our defense has collapsed at crucial times in recent weeks. Giving up long drives that resulted in momentum-killing TD's. And our offensive strategy seems confused at times, abandoning the run, not adjusting to the defenses adjustments, ect. Our red zone performance has been awful.

    This team is flawed. This goes beyond Geno Smith. We need at least another year before this team will be a serious playoff contender. And that's assuming Geno pulls it together.

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