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    Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

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    NYJETSDAN16
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    Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Tue 23 Sep 2014 - 12:17

    This guy has grit and determination.  He gets open.  He catches the majority of passes that come his way. He's an underdog that wants to break out.
    I see alot of Wayne Chrebet and Danny Woodhead in him.  Excellent hands with a combo of body control & speed. I feel his talents are withering away with him on the sidelines the more David Nelson gets more reps.
    If anything, the Monday night game showcased that Nelson can't get any separation whatsoever. The biggest play on offense was in the 4rth quarter on our last drive.  Salas got us there with his clutch catch and run.  This guy can extend plays, Nelson can't.

    I truly hope Marty begins to incorporate Salas more to the point where he is starting opposite of Eric Decker.  In open space, Salas can really fly.


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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by jamesfyo123 on Tue 23 Sep 2014 - 12:25

    I would tend to agree, especially after the disastrous game that Nelson had last night (two fumbles, bad job of high-pointing the Geno redone INT, although still a bad decision by G).

    But let's not pretend that, in one of Salas' biggest opportunities this year, he didn't drop an easy TD. He has everything to prove. But I do think he should get more PT.
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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by NCgreen12 on Tue 23 Sep 2014 - 12:57

    There are tough decisions and easy decisions. Nelson adds very little value. He's not a jump ball guy or a great hands guy and in fact fumbled the first two catches yesterday. I'd go with Salas in a minute. He seems to have some quickness and maybe with a little experience can develop some confidence.

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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by hobson54 on Tue 23 Sep 2014 - 13:48

    actually jeremy kerley is our #2 WR.  i don't get too caught up in labels - #1 WR, #2 WR, etc...

    when push comes to shove, decker and kerley will be our leading WRs.  whether he lines up in the slot or split out wide or running reverses or bubble screens, after decker, kerley is the WR i want with the ball the most.
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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by Superman55 on Tue 23 Sep 2014 - 14:06

    hobson54 wrote:actually jeremy kerley is our #2 WR.  i don't get too caught up in labels - #1 WR, #2 WR, etc...

    when push comes to shove, decker and kerley will be our leading WRs.  whether he lines up in the slot or split out wide or running reverses or bubble screens, after decker, kerley is the WR i want with the ball the most.

    +1

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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by lnap23 on Tue 23 Sep 2014 - 14:53

    He needs to be top 3 and see the field way more than Neilson... Especially when Decker is Healthy

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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by soj on Tue 23 Sep 2014 - 16:58

    Give the guy a chance it can be any worse then having Nelson in... also where the hell are our TE'S?
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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by football51 on Wed 24 Sep 2014 - 17:40

    Figured this was as good as any spot to post this.


    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 6h
    #Jets fan: We have NO WRs after Decker. Decker goes down. Kerley has 7 catches and a TD. DOESN'T COUNT!




    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 5h
    #Jets fan: But we have NO WRs after Decker & Kerley. Fails to realize that most teams in NFL have ugly WR situation if take away top 2 guys.




    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 5h
    Remember, both NYJ and CHI lost their top WR on Monday. CHI next guy had 105 and 0 TDs. Jets next guy had 81 yards and a TD.





    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 5h
    CHIs next WR after that had 9 yards receiving. Jets next WR had 56 yards receiving. CHI RB had 43 yards receiving. Jets RB had 52.





    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 5h
    Nevermind, NYJ had 3 pass plays of 20 yards or longer and CHI had one. And Chi has arguably the best skill position group in NFL, right?




    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 5h
    So save your WEAPONSSS argument for a different week, when the #Jets don't have 400 yards of offense without their best O player





    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 5h
    When I see the #Jets actually lean Ivory and TEs in the redzone with better playcalling and fail. Then I will start hammering personnel.




    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 2h
    Still cracks me up how people just don't count Jeremy Kerley's 7 catches for 81 yards a TD...just because he is Jeremy Kerley, I guess?




    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 2h
    Like if the #Jets signed James Jones and he did that, people would be doing backflips








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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by football51 on Wed 24 Sep 2014 - 18:10

    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 22h
    The thought that offense "died" without Decker isn't based in reality, since we watched Kerley & Ivory rack up 80+ yards each #Jets



    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 22h
    ...Nevermind Amaro and Salas adding 50+ yards each. #Jets




    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 22h
    Fascinated to hear what production people expect from NFL team's next WR after top guy goes down. Is 7 receptions, 81 yards & TD not enough?




    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · 22h
    Also fascinated to hear why people think your 4th WR should end up with more than 56 yards receiver in any game...ever.




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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by football51 on Wed 24 Sep 2014 - 18:19

    Joe Caporoso retweeted
    Chris Lopresti @CLoprestiWFAN · Sep 23
    The #Jets have the 2nd ranked defense and 8th ranked offense yet they're 1-2. Stats can be deceiving. Turnovers, penalties, red zone...





    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets · Sep 23
    LRT - Top 10 on both sides of the ball hurts the "no talent" argument. #Jets have just been a dumb, sloppy team through 3 games.

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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by cysporsche on Wed 24 Sep 2014 - 19:09

    I was a Nelson fan until recently, he should be a #4 or #5 WR on the team. Salas who looks small is actually 6'2"/210 and pretty quick.

    Might be just me, but I could think of a couple players I would have cut before Stephen Hill. If you think I'm nuts, re-play the Bills game. He was intimidated playing in NY, but I still would have kept him.

    I honestly want Julio Jones !

    Go Jets...Cyborg
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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by HYATT™ on Wed 24 Sep 2014 - 21:28

    Nomenclature needs a little standardization, I think.
    Most of the confusion begins and ends with which receiver is being called the #2 receiver.
    Some people think in terms of the 2nd best receiver being the #2 - which in many cases IS in fact true, because the 2nd best receiver is often the possession receiver and plays in the slot or "Y" position.

    The problem arises when certain folks start referring to the OTHER taller flanker receiver as the #2 guy, because they make an assumption that a tall outside receiver is more valuable than some slot midget receiver who can't catch a jump ball on the outside or beat double teams deep & is therefore relegated to ONLY playing in the shallow middle.
    This is a serious misunderstanding of WR usage.

    Receivers are, in coach-speak ordering:
    #1 or "X" - the top WR on the team, an outside threat who may require defenses to double-team him. Primarily differentiated from the other flanker WR by being named the Split End.
    Typically the #1 or X receiver will line up split wide on the weak/left side, on the LoS, so he has the maximum amount of room to operate & extra room to evade a jamming press cover DB at the snap.
    His inside moves will bring him into the easiest throwing motion comfort zone for a right-handed QB.

    #2 or "Y" - typically the smaller, best-hands, receiver on the team.
    Alternately referred to as the "slot" receiver, he lines up inside of a flanker and outside of the close TE, off the LoS - though he can also line up between a spread TE, & outside a tackle - in which case he will be the WR lining up on the LoS & the TE &/or flanker will take a step back.

    #3 or "Z" - the other flanker WR who usually lines up wide out on the strong/right side and on the LoS to "cover" the right tackle, unless there is a TE inside of him, in which case the Z receiver must step back off the LoS to maintain the 7 man rule.
    TEs often usurp the role of the "Z" or flanker receiver in the spread offense these days.

    7 man rule explained, with some redundancy concerning nomenclature for WRs:
    This rule is one of the easiest and yet most complex rules in the game.
    For every play there must be 7 men on the LOS
    There cannot be 6 and there cannot be 8.
    This includes FGs, PATs, and Punts.
    Only kickoffs differ.
    This means that there must also always be 4 men off the LOS.

    Also the OTs must always be "covered."
    That means that someone is outside of them and on the LOS.
    So if you have a WR out wide left he MUST be on the LOS and he cannot go in motion unless someone else comes in motion and sets up wide of the LT on the LOS.
    At that point the WR comes off the LOS and can go in motion if there is still time.

    Usually the WR out wide left is called the X receiver.
    The WR out wide right is the Z receiver.
    The TE is commonly called the Y, but in 4 or 5 WR sets it can be someone else. (Slot receiver.)
    The TE is the most common formation holding the designation Y.

    So, there are (5) O-linemen and then (2) more players, usually an X, Y, or Z receiver who are also on the LOS wide of the OTs and "covering" them.
    In a 2 TE formation, both OTs are "covered" and both flanker WRs must then back off the LoS and into the backfield to maintain the 7 man rule.
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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by JohnnyBaseball on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 12:50

    What's Caproso's point? That the Jets actually have good receivers? Guys like Jeffery are on another level than anyone we have, and that 7 catches for 81 yards and a touchdown is not really THAT good considering we were losing the entire game. I routinely see players on other teams make acrobatic catches, and more importantly, FIGHT for the ball, and our players don't have that kind of ability (cough Sudfeld).

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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by lnap23 on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 14:28

    Point is the WR play wasn't the reason we lost.
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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by JohnnyBaseball on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 14:35

    lnap23 wrote:Point is the WR play wasn't the reason we lost.

    Oh, I agree with that. Although, if we had better receivers, who knows what could have happened? I still think we could have better receivers, overall, though. I feel like we have a lot of dropped passes (although I'm not even really sure if that's true).

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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by lnap23 on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 14:37

    JohnnyBaseball wrote:
    lnap23 wrote:Point is the WR play wasn't the reason we lost.

    Oh, I agree with that. Although, if we had better receivers, who knows what could have happened? I still think we could have better receivers, overall, though. I feel like we have a lot of dropped passes (although I'm not even really sure if that's true).


    Actually we are at the bottom end of dropped passes as a team through the first 3 games...


    Not sure How a better receiving corps helps Geno make better decisions and accurate throws... Honestly Geno is improving but he has to get over that hump... Once he does we will be fine.
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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by JohnnyBaseball on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 15:18

    lnap23 wrote:

    Actually we are at the bottom end of dropped passes as a team through the first 3 games...


    Not sure How a better receiving corps helps Geno make better decisions and accurate throws... Honestly Geno is improving but he has to get over that hump... Once he does we will be fine.

    That is interesting. How can I find information like that? I am so biased when I watch that I can't rely on my own impressions of what is going on, clearly. Better receivers would only help in the sense that an inaccurate pass to Greg Salas may be a pass that Calvin Johnson, for example, could catch. Like, against Green Bay, Jordy Nelson was diving all over the place making catches, but if he didn't actually catch those balls, they would have been "inaccurate" throws. So part of it kinda depends on the receiver actually making the catch, because even a perfect throw is an incompletion on the stat sheet if the receiver doesn't catch the ball. Geno could be exactly the same and passively get marginally better just by having more talented people around him. It won't make a big difference, though, if he doesn't make better decisions, as you say. It's just tough, because he makes a lot of good decisions, but it's the one or two bad ones that really hurt. Unfortunately, to win at this level, you have to avoid big mistakes at certain moments in the game (and conversely, make big plays in those same moments).

    The thing that isn't accurately captured by statistics is the flow of the game. Certain plays at certain moments can have a momentum shifting effect, and it seems like momentum can have a snowball effect. Sometimes a big completion can shift the entire feel of a game, but the play may not seem important when you look at the box score.

    Basically what I'm getting at here is that evaluating football players and teams is WAY harder than baseball, because each individual's performance so directly impacts the other individuals, and the strategy can shift wildly based on game situations. Everything has to work together, or nothing works at all. And it's especially hard when you REALLY, REALLY want a certain outcome. My eyes start playing tricks on me!

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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by Old#15 on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 15:42

    Good post.
    I'm with you JB and further to your point, if someone other than Sudfeld and Nelson (who might actually fight for the ball) are the intended receivers on the 2 INTs, the picks are at worst incompletions.  A guy like Cutler has the luxury of throwing the ball into a much bigger window than Geno because of Marshall and Jeffrey.  So does that make him a great QB? I'm not ignoring Geno's poor decision making, just that you can't look at statistics in a vacuum.
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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by Superman55 on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 16:11

    Old#15 wrote:Good post.
    I'm with you JB and further to your point, if someone other than Sudfeld and Nelson (who might actually fight for the ball) are the intended receivers on the 2 INTs, the picks are at worst incompletions.  A guy like Cutler has the luxury of throwing the ball into a much bigger window than Geno because of Marshall and Jeffrey.  So does that make him a great QB?  I'm not ignoring Geno's poor decision making, just that you can't look at statistics in a vacuum.

    Cy and I have been arguing this point all week offline.  I look at it this way...

    We have $21.5 mill in cap space, DJax counts $3.5 mill towards this years cap...which if we signed him, we'd still be $18 mill in cap room to resign Mo.

    I feel, and no one has to agree, that 1 stud player on our roster, like DJax...we'd be sitting here 3-0 right now on top of the division.  

    Geno is completing 63% of his passes with just Decker, Kerley..and scrubs...what if he had 1 more weapon that could get separation and make everyone's life easier?

    I have little doubt we'd not be 3-0 right now if you took out Nelson and added DJax....but instead, we're 1-2 and if we win less than 6-7 games...Rex is likely fired at the end of the year

    Sure, there's a lot of "maybes" referenced above, but if Geno can complete 63% w/o DJax, I have hard time his completion % wouldn't be higher with him.

    Little things like not adding a second target, especially at such a low #, if the difference in the season, IMO, and directly on the GM.

    Some people feels signing DJax for $3.5 mill before the cap jumps up $30 mill next year sounds like Mike T...I disagree, Mike T (see the Holmes contract) would have traded a pick and signed DJax for $7 mill per...now DJax's contract is very reasonable, he's playing hurt with a shoulder injury and gutting it out for his team, and making everyone around him better (on the field any way).

    It will be too bad if rex losses his job because of roster mismanagement when right now, 1, maybe 2, decisions in the offseason and Rex would be in line for coach of the year...now he might not make it through the season...funny how that works.

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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by lnap23 on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 16:43

    JohnnyBaseball wrote:
    lnap23 wrote:

    Actually we are at the bottom end of dropped passes as a team through the first 3 games...


    Not sure How a better receiving corps helps Geno make better decisions and accurate throws... Honestly Geno is improving but he has to get over that hump... Once he does we will be fine.

    That is interesting. How can I find information like that? I am so biased when I watch that I can't rely on my own impressions of what is going on, clearly. Better receivers would only help in the sense that an inaccurate pass to Greg Salas may be a pass that Calvin Johnson, for example, could catch. Like, against Green Bay, Jordy Nelson was diving all over the place making catches, but if he didn't actually catch those balls, they would have been "inaccurate" throws. So part of it kinda depends on the receiver actually making the catch, because even a perfect throw is an incompletion on the stat sheet if the receiver doesn't catch the ball. Geno could be exactly the same and passively get marginally better just by having more talented people around him. It won't make a big difference, though, if he doesn't make better decisions, as you say. It's just tough, because he makes a lot of good decisions, but it's the one or two bad ones that really hurt. Unfortunately, to win at this level, you have to avoid big mistakes at certain moments in the game (and conversely, make big plays in those same moments).

    The thing that isn't accurately captured by statistics is the flow of the game. Certain plays at certain moments can have a momentum shifting effect, and it seems like momentum can have a snowball effect. Sometimes a big completion can shift the entire feel of a game, but the play may not seem important when you look at the box score.

    Basically what I'm getting at here is that evaluating football players and teams is WAY harder than baseball, because each individual's performance so directly impacts the other individuals, and the strategy can shift wildly based on game situations. Everything has to work together, or nothing works at all. And it's especially hard when you REALLY, REALLY want a certain outcome. My eyes start playing tricks on me!


    http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-receiver-drops-percentage/2014/
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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by JohnnyBaseball on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 16:50

    Thanks! It's absolutely shocking to me that the Jets have only dropped 3 passes.

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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by lnap23 on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 16:52

    In games 2 and 3 some of Genos throws have been terrible....
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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by HYATT™ on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 22:33

    One QB's 63% completion rate is not like another QB's 63% completion rate.
    You have to compare apples to apples.
    Joe Flacco, in BAL's offense, will NEVER see a 63% completion percentage.
    His success comes with larger big play gains and more missed downfield attempts.
    He's throwing over 61% this season so far, which on an apples to oranges basis is FAR better than the higher completion percentages inherent in Mornhinweg's WCO system.
    For Mr. Smith to be operating at Flacco levels, in the WCO, we need to be discussing 65% or better, as a minimum.
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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by SackExchange on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 22:56

    Salas needs to be our #2 WR right now, but it just shows that we need a better top two group.
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    Re: Greg Salas needs to be our number Two WR

    Post by JohnnyBaseball on Fri 26 Sep 2014 - 13:47

    If only Stephen Hill could have been good at all, we would be in a stronger position right now. I wouldn't mind seeing them target a top WR in next year's draft, though. I'm sure we will be getting CBs, however.

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