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2015 NFL Draft Thread
NYJETSDAN16- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°476
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
This Brandon Bridge kid has a gun and very athletic. Diamond in the rough.
cysporsche- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°477
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
GratefulJet wrote:I think when you start getting paid to evaluate college players, then you have the cred to call someone else who gets paid (and paid very well) to do it an idiot. I'm no particular fan of Mel Kiper, he's in the entertainment business not the scouting business, but I think he probably knows more about the football business than you or any of us armchair scouts give him credit for. Let's be fair--he pretty much single-handedly brought the murky evaluation process to the TV screen and has made a pretty darn good career out of it at ESPN. Whatever else he is, he's no idiot.
+1 Mel Kiper does not get the credit he deserves. We've got a few arm chair draft experts who change their picks about every other day, but they think Kiper is an idiot.
Kiper stopped his incredible 4 part draft guide last year, but he did or does employ a huge amount of his own personal scouts.
And the reason he is not employed by one of the 32 teams is because he makes too much money to be on some teams scouting department, plus he's his own boss. He forgets more in a day about the draft than all of us combined, and I consider myself a draftnik. I love the draft, but I'll never claim to know more than Mel Kiper Jr..
Go Jets...Cyborg
NickSINYC- Honorary Sky Marshall
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- Post n°478
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
NYJETSDAN16 wrote:This Brandon Bridge kid has a gun and very athletic. Diamond in the rough.
I like his size and arm strength but under 52% on completions is rough.
Superman55- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°479
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
GratefulJet wrote:Yes, as I said, he's in the entertainment business, but unlike you and me, he's been pretty successful at it and I respect him for that. And like all GMs, he whiffs now and then. One thing there's no doubt, he popularized watching player film.Superman55 wrote:SackExchange wrote:He's no idiot, but if he was a genius, he would have his choice of 32 employers.GratefulJet wrote:I think when you start getting paid to evaluate college players, then you have the cred to call someone else who gets paid (and paid very well) to do it an idiot. I'm no particular fan of Mel Kiper, he's in the entertainment business not the scouting business, but I think he probably knows more about the football business than you or any of us armchair scouts give him credit for. Let's be fair--he pretty much single-handedly brought the murky evaluation process to the TV screen and has made a pretty darn good career out of it at ESPN. Whatever else he is, he's no idiot.
He's an entertainer...no more, no less.
There are teams with legit scouts that are all superior at what he does on TV than him...but he's a showman with slick hair that delivers his opinion well...but when it comes to delivering scouting reports, he's no different from you and me...
...he's an arm chair GM like me and you, and if that impresses you, fine...but you don't read of any teams bringing him in as a consultant for a reason...teams laugh at his shenanigans and people who think it’s more than that.
Anyone can think otherwise all they want, but when you say stupid things like Teo should go #1, every team in the NFL knows you're that, an entertainer, arm chair GM, that could never be a scout or evaluator of college talent.
We're arguing two different points. I agree with you in what you say about his involvement in popularizing the draft; however, I would give Radio City and ESPN just as much credit, call me crazy, but he was a big part of that, like Howard Cosell when it came to Monday night football...
However, if you want to hear someone who knows what they're talking about when it comes to breaking down film on college players, you would listen to Greg Cosell over Mel Kiper...Greg Cosell's farts know more about breaking down film and predicting prospects than Mel Kiper in his prime.
I know, I know, Kiper's on ESPN, so he's brilliant. Which to me, is like calling Walmart the greatest store ever because everyone knows where one is and has shopped there...
hobson54- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°480
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
cysporsche wrote:GratefulJet wrote:I think when you start getting paid to evaluate college players, then you have the cred to call someone else who gets paid (and paid very well) to do it an idiot. I'm no particular fan of Mel Kiper, he's in the entertainment business not the scouting business, but I think he probably knows more about the football business than you or any of us armchair scouts give him credit for. Let's be fair--he pretty much single-handedly brought the murky evaluation process to the TV screen and has made a pretty darn good career out of it at ESPN. Whatever else he is, he's no idiot.
+1 Mel Kiper does not get the credit he deserves. We've got a few arm chair draft experts who change their picks about every other day, but they think Kiper is an idiot.
Kiper stopped his incredible 4 part draft guide last year, but he did or does employ a huge amount of his own personal scouts.
And the reason he is not employed by one of the 32 teams is because he makes too much money to be on some teams scouting department, plus he's his own boss. He forgets more in a day about the draft than all of us combined, and I consider myself a draftnik. I love the draft, but I'll never claim to know more than Mel Kiper Jr..
Go Jets...Cyborg
cy, i agree with you on kiper versus joe average fan. i'm sure he watches more film than most fans, even many of the very dedicated draftnicks.
but i think it's false to assume he knows more than the professional scouts employed by the teams. i'm not sure if he gets access to the coaching film, and i doubt he gets the access to the college coaches and the players themselves, and is able to evaluate them on a 1-on-1 basis and give the personality tests that the pros do.
so while i respect guys like kiper and mcshay and think they are fun and a good guide for the lay-person fan, i will always defer to the judgments to the professional scouts employed by the teams who have significantly more resources dedicated to scouting the players. for example, if a player is sitting there in the 5th round and kiper rated him as 2nd round pick, i'm not gonna jump up and down and think the 32 teams are wrong and kiper is right.
Pointdexter- Navigator
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- Post n°481
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
I have followed Brandon Bridge quite a bit and have seen him up close. Unless you like a QB with no downfield accuracy then he is someone who is not worth even a 7th rounder. If you guys think EJ Manuel has poor pocket presence and a poor grasp of the offense then wait until you see Bridge. His instincts and feel for the game are beyond poor and make Manuel look like Peyton Manning.
Seaver- Pilot
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- Post n°482
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
here's where the expert opinions get warped........Kiper is on record saying that neither Winston nor Mariota is a franchise QB. Right there you need to stop. That being the case, how do they put them at the top of the draft when there are more impactful players sitting there? that tells me their boards are not solely talent based but also have an element of entertainment. The popularity of these guys is in their ability to guess what the teams will also pick. You have to keep that in mind when you see a 'board'....they are talking as much about pure talent as they are likelihood of the players getting drafted at/near their spot on the 'board'.
All that being said, you can't always take them saying a player going number 1 to mean he is the best player on the board.
I find Kiper's value to be when we get past the 1st round and his best available names are left....that's the good stuff. We can ALL guess who pretty much goes in the 1st round.
All that being said, you can't always take them saying a player going number 1 to mean he is the best player on the board.
I find Kiper's value to be when we get past the 1st round and his best available names are left....that's the good stuff. We can ALL guess who pretty much goes in the 1st round.
Sarge- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°483
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
Kiper has us taking Shane Ray DE Missouri
Sign me up for that right now!
Sign me up for that right now!
Superman55- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°484
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
Sarge wrote:Kiper has us taking Shane Ray DE Missouri
Sign me up for that right now!
GratefulJet- Honorary Group Captain
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- Post n°485
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
Where will he play in the NFL? 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE?Superman55 wrote:Sarge wrote:Kiper has us taking Shane Ray DE Missouri
Sign me up for that right now!
Sarge- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°486
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
You know, I think a lot of that discussion is sort of moot anymore. NFL teams play so many sub packages and there are players of all shapes and sizes playing all different spots nowadays. Teams are rarely in a base 4-3 or 3-4 now. Sheldon Richardson isn't really a classic 3-4 DT or DE, but he's awesome. Clay Matthews played middke linebacker for Green Bay. Elvis Dumerville doesnt have a position in the classic NFL model....Ray is a playmaker and could be used in a lot of ways.
Pointdexter- Navigator
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- Post n°487
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
right now I like Beasley better than Ray. I think he can do a lot of things the Jets need. He would be just as effective covering TE's and RB's as he would be rushing the QB. Premium athlete and that will be really evident at the combine.
Superman55- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°488
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
Sarge wrote:You know, I think a lot of that discussion is sort of moot anymore. NFL teams play so many sub packages and there are players of all shapes and sizes playing all different spots nowadays. Teams are rarely in a base 4-3 or 3-4 now. Sheldon Richardson isn't really a classic 3-4 DT or DE, but he's awesome. Clay Matthews played middke linebacker for Green Bay. Elvis Dumerville doesnt have a position in the classic NFL model....Ray is a playmaker and could be used in a lot of ways.
Plus teams play more nickel than base packages in today's NFL anyway...
Sarge- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°489
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
I'd be happy with Beasley, too, but I like Ray a little more at this point
cysporsche- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°490
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
The thing I like more about Shane Ray 6'3"/245 than anything else, is that he won SEC defensive player of the year as a junior, thats huge ! But then again Michael Sam did not translate to the NFL which means nothing, but makes me hesitant.
Vic Beasley has been a stud DE @ Clemson, but he looked better to me last year than this year ?
I really wanted Amari Cooper WR, but since the Raiders leap frogged us going from 6th to 4th pick, I think they will focus on getting Carr the best weapon available.
Go Jets...Cyborg
Vic Beasley has been a stud DE @ Clemson, but he looked better to me last year than this year ?
I really wanted Amari Cooper WR, but since the Raiders leap frogged us going from 6th to 4th pick, I think they will focus on getting Carr the best weapon available.
Go Jets...Cyborg
Superman55- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°491
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
cysporsche wrote:The thing I like more about Shane Ray 6'3"/245 than anything else, is that he won SEC defensive player of the year as a junior, thats huge ! But then again Michael Sam did not translate to the NFL which means nothing, but makes me hesitant.
Vic Beasley has been a stud DE @ Clemson, but he looked better to me last year than this year ?
I really wanted Amari Cooper WR, but since the Raiders leap frogged us going from 6th to 4th pick, I think they will focus on getting Carr the best weapon available.
Go Jets...Cyborg
Cy - do you think Beasely would be better in the 4-3 than the 3-4?
Superman55- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°492
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
Sarge wrote:I'd be happy with Beasley, too, but I like Ray a little more at this point
Exactly how I feel; ultimately, whoever Bowles and his defensive staff like better I am okay with. I, personally, like Ray more. He's an athletic freak that I think can cover and rush and be all over the field.
GratefulJet- Honorary Group Captain
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- Post n°493
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
Sarge wrote:You know, I think a lot of that discussion is sort of moot anymore. NFL teams play so many sub packages and there are players of all shapes and sizes playing all different spots nowadays. Teams are rarely in a base 4-3 or 3-4 now. Sheldon Richardson isn't really a classic 3-4 DT or DE, but he's awesome. Clay Matthews played middke linebacker for Green Bay. Elvis Dumerville doesnt have a position in the classic NFL model....Ray is a playmaker and could be used in a lot of ways.
I'm just trying to figure out which of our other 1st round DL picks is going to sent to the sideline when we put this guy on the field.
Superman55- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°494
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
GratefulJet wrote:Sarge wrote:You know, I think a lot of that discussion is sort of moot anymore. NFL teams play so many sub packages and there are players of all shapes and sizes playing all different spots nowadays. Teams are rarely in a base 4-3 or 3-4 now. Sheldon Richardson isn't really a classic 3-4 DT or DE, but he's awesome. Clay Matthews played middke linebacker for Green Bay. Elvis Dumerville doesnt have a position in the classic NFL model....Ray is a playmaker and could be used in a lot of ways.
I'm just trying to figure out which of our other 1st round DL picks is going to sent to the sideline when we put this guy on the field.
the one that wasnt a 1st rd pick, Harrison.
...and how worried are you really about him stealing Babin's PT?
soj- Honorary Air Commander
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- Post n°495
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
Pointdexter wrote:I have followed Brandon Bridge quite a bit and have seen him up close. Unless you like a QB with no downfield accuracy then he is someone who is not worth even a 7th rounder. If you guys think EJ Manuel has poor pocket presence and a poor grasp of the offense then wait until you see Bridge. His instincts and feel for the game are beyond poor and make Manuel look like Peyton Manning.
he reminds me of Geno-lite...
NickSINYC- Honorary Sky Marshall
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- Post n°496
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
Cardale Jones will declare if he is entering the draft today. He has scheduled a press conference so my guess is he is entering the draft. I don't think he needed the press conference if he was announcing he was staying in school.
I would love to see the Jets find a young vet to compete with Geno and find a good spot to draft Jones as a project to groom. I think he has a huge upside.
I would love to see the Jets find a young vet to compete with Geno and find a good spot to draft Jones as a project to groom. I think he has a huge upside.
Last edited by NickSINYC on Thu 15 Jan 2015 - 16:21; edited 3 times in total
cysporsche- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°497
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
Superman55 wrote:cysporsche wrote:The thing I like more about Shane Ray 6'3"/245 than anything else, is that he won SEC defensive player of the year as a junior, thats huge ! But then again Michael Sam did not translate to the NFL which means nothing, but makes me hesitant.
Vic Beasley has been a stud DE @ Clemson, but he looked better to me last year than this year ?
I really wanted Amari Cooper WR, but since the Raiders leap frogged us going from 6th to 4th pick, I think they will focus on getting Carr the best weapon available.
Go Jets...Cyborg
Cy - do you think Beasely would be better in the 4-3 than the 3-4?
They have Beasley @ 6'3"/235 which is 10 pounds less than Ray which is not "big enough" for a 3-4 OLB. My concern about Beasley was that he did not look as dominate this year ? Teams might have been double teaming him more, not sure.
I also have a fear of switching any DE in College to a 4-3 in the Pro's after our Vernon Gholston fiasco ! Honestly, Gregory looks like he could make the easiest transition from DE to OLB, but he will be long gone by our #6 pick.
I hate to trade back for more picks, but it might be the right thing to do here.
Go Jets...Cyborg
NickSINYC- Honorary Sky Marshall
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- Post n°498
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
NickSINYC wrote:Cardale Jones will declare if he is entering the draft today. He has scheduled a press conference so my guess is he is entering the draft. I don't think he needed the press conference if he was announcing he was staying in school.
I would love to see the Jets find a young vet to compete with Geno and find a good spot to draft Jones as a project to groom. I think he has a huge upside.
I was wrong
NFL on ESPN @ESPNNFL · 1m 1 minute ago
HE'S COMING BACK! Cardale Jones announces he's returning to Ohio State next year
cysporsche- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°499
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
NickSINYC wrote:NickSINYC wrote:Cardale Jones will declare if he is entering the draft today. He has scheduled a press conference so my guess is he is entering the draft. I don't think he needed the press conference if he was announcing he was staying in school.
I would love to see the Jets find a young vet to compete with Geno and find a good spot to draft Jones as a project to groom. I think he has a huge upside.
I was wrong
NFL on ESPN @ESPNNFL · 1m 1 minute ago
HE'S COMING BACK! Cardale Jones announces he's returning to Ohio State next year
Why the Hell call a press conference if you are staying in College ?
Go Jets...Cyborg
football51- Supreme Commander
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- Post n°500
Re: 2015 NFL Draft Thread
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