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    Superman55
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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by Superman55 on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 7:57

    The Wicker Man wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:Reports are he will be out this week also...kind of feel this will be the story of his career.  he just seems like an unreliable player...

    The "B" word comes to mind. He's been here for 19 games so far and played well in 4 of them.

    The 'B' word may be strong at this point, we probably both agree there, but most players from bama, especially on defense, are straight garbage in the NFL. Period. They're like offensive players from USC. Hopefully he gets healthy and turns things around, but he'll have played 1 game in the first 4 and be questionable/doubtful for week 5.

    Can't say he's off to a promising start to his career, that's for sure. He can't be relied upon, which means we'll be in the market for a #1 WR and #1 CB next offseason again, IMO. You can't make Milliner a #1 CB if you don't know if he'll ever be on the field...
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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by danfran on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 8:53

    Getting Mo Claiborne was discussed in the other thread. Kind of ironic. Underachieving, always hurt. Sounds familiar.
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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by The Wicker Man on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 12:45

    I'm not going to give the bust tag......yet, but, he's needs to show something and soon!


    Last edited by The Wicker Man on Fri 26 Sep 2014 - 10:45; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by Polishjetfan on Thu 25 Sep 2014 - 20:58

    You guys really calling an injured player a bust? This is his 1st injury that has kept him out of pro game action that I can recall.

    I'm not happy he is hurt, no jet fan is, but Millner showed what he can do when healthy at the end of last season. I say just let him heal since bringing him back early wasn't the greatest idea.

    Obv the cb position as a whole is thin on this team...AFTER it lost its top 3 CBs. I'm just curious how many teams would look as good as the jets D after loosing their to 3 CBs.
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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by The Wicker Man on Fri 26 Sep 2014 - 10:49

    No one flat out called him a bust yet.....but, he sucked last year. Okay, he ended the season on a
    positive note, but, this year he comes into camp out of shape? Maybe, I've been spoiled by
    Revis and Cromartie(minus last year) but Milliner is no sure thing. I hope I'm dead wrong.

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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by LIJETFAN on Fri 26 Sep 2014 - 11:18

    I've been very critical of Milliner since early last season when he couldn't cover a defensive lineman running a pattern, let alone a #1 receiver. It looked like he turned a corner near the end of the season. But, the bottom line is if you can't get on the field and can't stay in shape then you are not worth a #1 pick. He had a history of injuries at Alabama and that has translated to the NFL. He has a small frame. And he looks pathetically slow right now because of his injuries. He needs to get himself in football shape and start contributing in a hurry. This team needs him on the field and playing at a very high level for them to win games. Right now, Milliner is hurting the team by not being out there. And when he was out there in the Packers game, he hurt the team with his play. The bust label is a little premature at this point, but he is certainly well on his way to deserving it. And no team can afford to miss on players taken high that high in the draft. He is trying our patience as fans. If he doesn't come back and play well, he deserves every bit of criticism he gets from the media and the fans, and more importantly his coaches and his teammates.



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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by Polishjetfan on Fri 26 Sep 2014 - 12:47

    LIJETFAN wrote:I've been very critical of Milliner since early last season when he couldn't cover a defensive lineman running a pattern, let alone a #1 receiver.  It looked like he turned a corner near the end of the season.  But, the bottom line is if you can't get on the field and can't stay in shape then you are not worth a #1 pick.  He had a history of injuries at Alabama and that has translated to the NFL.  He has a small frame.  And he looks pathetically slow right now because of his injuries.  He needs to get himself in football shape and start contributing in a hurry.   This team needs him on the field and playing at a very high level for them to win games.  Right now, Milliner is hurting the team by not being out there.  And when he was out there in the Packers game, he hurt the team with his play.  The bust label is a little premature at this point, but he is certainly well on his way to deserving it.   And no team can afford to miss on players taken high that high in the draft.  He is trying our patience as fans.  If he doesn't come back and play well, he deserves every bit of criticism he gets from the media and the fans, and more importantly his coaches and his teammates.  



    I understand your frustration regarding the team's performance. However I think based on the tone of your argument your take on the Milner would be different if the team was 3-0.

    High ankle sprains are a bitch. I've had one and it took forever to heal. It really limits your ability to cut and move. This is Millners first professional injury And first time careerwise (college or pro) that he's missed any playing time due to injury.

    It really sucks that the Jets are playing the best passing teams on their schedule without their top three CB healthy. But that has very little to do with Millners injury potential and overall player potential.

    The frustration about one should not affect the perception of the other
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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 26 Sep 2014 - 13:28

    Polishjetfan wrote:
    LIJETFAN wrote:I've been very critical of Milliner since early last season when he couldn't cover a defensive lineman running a pattern, let alone a #1 receiver.  It looked like he turned a corner near the end of the season.  But, the bottom line is if you can't get on the field and can't stay in shape then you are not worth a #1 pick.  He had a history of injuries at Alabama and that has translated to the NFL.  He has a small frame.  And he looks pathetically slow right now because of his injuries.  He needs to get himself in football shape and start contributing in a hurry.   This team needs him on the field and playing at a very high level for them to win games.  Right now, Milliner is hurting the team by not being out there.  And when he was out there in the Packers game, he hurt the team with his play.  The bust label is a little premature at this point, but he is certainly well on his way to deserving it.   And no team can afford to miss on players taken high that high in the draft.  He is trying our patience as fans.  If he doesn't come back and play well, he deserves every bit of criticism he gets from the media and the fans, and more importantly his coaches and his teammates.  



    I understand your frustration regarding the team's performance. However I think based on the tone of your argument your take on the Milner would be different if the team was 3-0.

    High ankle sprains are a bitch. I've had one and it took forever to heal. It really limits your ability to cut and move. This is Millners first professional injury And first time careerwise (college or pro) that he's missed any playing time due to injury.

    It really sucks that the Jets are playing the best passing teams on their schedule without their top three CB  healthy. But that has very little to do with Millners injury potential and overall player potential.

    The frustration about one should not affect the perception of the other



    Wait, did you just say, "This is Millners first professional injury..."

    * He arrived with the Jets and missed rookie camp with a shoulder injury.
    * Last training camp he injured his achilles and missed most of training camp
    * Last year he missed 3 games with a hamstring injury
    * This training camp he suffered a high ankle sprain.
    * His ankle sprain is healed enough to play, he now has a quad injury.

    Before he was ever a Jet, on top of the above injuries, he had 5 surgeries while at Bama...you are acting like this is his first injury, he's been injury plagued for the Jets just like he was injury plagued for Bama...










    Dee Milliner has had five surgeries

    Posted by Michael David Smith on April 23, 2013, 2:19 PM EDT
    Nick Saban, Dee Milliner
    AP
    Whether there are legitimate concerns about Dee Milliner’s ability to stay healthy or whether it’s all part of a smear campaign, the health of the former Alabama cornerback is one of the major topics of conversation in the final days before the NFL draft.

    So with everyone buzzing about Milliner’s medical status, Adam Schefter of ESPN offers this note: Milliner has undergone a total of five surgeries: a right knee scope, a repair of a sports hernia, a procedure for a right tibia stress fracture and one surgery on each shoulder.

    Milliner is still rehabbing after his most recent shoulder surgery, and he might not be ready for the start of training camp. So it’s easy to see why there are medical questions about him.

    But it’s also important to remember this: In his three seasons at Alabama, Milliner missed exactly one game, and in that game (a blowout win over Western Kentucky), coach Nick Saban said Milliner had a minor hip injury and could have played if the team needed him. So while Milliner’s medical history may raise a few eyebrows, his football history says he can get on the field when his team needs him.

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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by LIJETFAN on Fri 26 Sep 2014 - 13:33

    PolishJetfan, I am not suggesting that the team is losing solely because of Milliner. I am saying that he is integral part of the equation. He was supposed to be our #1 CB and replacing Darrelle Revis. (How does that look right now?). Milliner the player has been a major disappointment thus far in his career. And my criticism is really about his play. But his play or lack thereof has a lot of implications for this team, this year and beyond. If he is a "bust" then we need to go out and find yet another CB next year, so we will need to draft or acquire through Free Agency 2 CBs instead one.

    And this season it means we have a bigger hole in our defense then we had before because Milliner was expected to produce this year. He can't even get on the field. I get that he has a high ankle sprain, I've had them too. It takes a while to get over them. But this is what his fourth injury since he joined the Jets. Now he has tightness in his quad, which means he pulled his quad because he is not in football shape. He needs to be on the field and playing at a high level period. He was a top 10 pick. He's in his second year. He needs to be out there contributing not riding the cycle on the sidelines.

    He said he was the best CB in football - his words, not mine. Well, you make a statement like that and you'd better show up on Sundays. This kid doesn't even get on the field. That's a problem.
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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 26 Sep 2014 - 13:40

    LIJETFAN wrote:PolishJetfan, I am not suggesting that the team is losing solely because of Milliner.  I am saying that he is integral part of the equation.  He was supposed to be our #1 CB and replacing Darrelle Revis.  (How does that look right now?).  Milliner the player has been a major disappointment thus far in his career.  And my criticism is really about his play.  But his play or lack thereof has a lot of implications for this team, this year and beyond.  If he is a "bust" then we need to go out and find yet another CB next year, so we will need to draft or acquire through Free Agency 2 CBs instead one.  

    And this season it means we have a bigger hole in our defense then we had before because Milliner was expected to produce this year.  He can't even get on the field.  I get that he has a high ankle sprain, I've had them too.  It takes a while to get over them.  But this is what his fourth injury since he joined the Jets.  Now he has tightness in his quad, which means he pulled his quad because he is not in football shape.   He needs to be on the field and playing at a high level period.  He was a top 10 pick.  He's in his second year.  He needs to be out there contributing not riding the cycle on the sidelines.

    He said he was the best CB in football - his words, not mine.  Well, you make a statement like that and you'd better show up on Sundays.  This kid doesn't even get on the field.  That's a problem.    


    There is no question the Jets already need to add another CB next year. Milliner cannot be relied upon and Wilson will likely be leaving as a free agent.
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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by football51 on Wed 1 Oct 2014 - 17:41

    Let's hope the quad is good too.



    Dan Leberfeld @jetswhispers · 9m 9 minutes ago
    "I didn't feel any pain in the ankle - the ankle is feeling fine." - Dee Milliner on his high ankle sprain suffered in the summer.



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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by football51 on Thu 2 Oct 2014 - 17:15

    Dennis Waszak Jr. @DWAZ73 · 57m 57 minutes ago
    DC Dennis Thurman says Dee Milliner has had "a couple of good days at practice" and extra film work. (Will play Sunday) #Jets
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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by NCgreen12 on Thu 2 Oct 2014 - 17:28

    Part of being great is being available. Milliner might just be one of those guys that has a standing appointment with the trainer each week. You look at D'brick who is not a great but good player but the fact that he's always on the field makes him very valuable. Hope I just didn't jinx him.

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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by Metjetgal on Fri 3 Oct 2014 - 11:56

    We need him like crazy. We need a dam int like crazy!!! Mad
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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by Superman55 on Sun 12 Oct 2014 - 17:42

    Blown Achilles, out for the year. We're in the market for a #1 QB, #1 CB, #1 WR, and pass rusher...like we were the day we hired Idzik...

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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by Blindsidebrick on Sun 12 Oct 2014 - 18:01

    Superman55 wrote:Blown Achilles, out for the year.  We're in the market for a #1 QB, #1 CB, #1 WR, and pass rusher...like we were the day we hired Idzik...


    A shot at Idzik. No way. Never saw that coming from you.


    The criticism of the Milliner pick is lame. He was the top rated CB in that draft out of college football powerhouse Alabama. This label of him as "injury prone" is bogus. It's "I told ya so" nonsense.

    Idzik brought in Decker and drafted Amaro. Both are good receivers. Both are upgrades in offense. That argument fails, too. Everyone's a genius after the fact.

    We're reaching now. Let's go up top to find blame. When the majority of the blame lies with Rex and the players. Idzik isn't getting fired. So just exhale. Rex probably is though. And the Geno Smith experiment is on life support. Let's focus on where change is likely to occur.
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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by GratefulJet on Sun 12 Oct 2014 - 18:43

    Blindsidebrick wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:Blown Achilles, out for the year.  We're in the market for a #1 QB, #1 CB, #1 WR, and pass rusher...like we were the day we hired Idzik...


    A shot at Idzik. No way. Never saw that coming from you.


    The criticism of the Milliner pick is lame. He was the top rated CB in that draft out of college football powerhouse Alabama. This label of him as "injury prone" is bogus. It's "I told ya so" nonsense.

    Idzik brought in Decker and drafted Amaro. Both are good receivers. Both are upgrades in offense. That argument fails, too. Everyone's a genius after the fact.

    We're reaching now. Let's go up top to find blame. When the majority of the blame lies with Rex and the players. Idzik isn't getting fired. So just exhale. Rex probably is though. And the Geno Smith experiment is on life support. Let's focus on where change is likely to occur.

    Could not disagree more with this entire perspective. First off, calling Milliner injury-prone is completely valid, because he is injury prone. 55 has already documented this. He had 5 surgeries in college, so this was certainly something you could see coming. Some people are more resilient to the violence of football than others. Milliner has demonstrated that he is not resilient. This latest injury came without contact. He was rushing the extra point and ruptured his Achilles? Are you kidding me? He is a brittle bag of bones.

    The other point I take exception to is the general "criticism of Idzik is off-limits" attitude. It is completely justified. Two drafts, 20 players drafted. How many are making a real contribution to the team? I count two: Richardson and Amaro. None of the other OL taken in 2013 are good enough to replace the human turnstile Winters, who is cementing a reputation as one of the worst guards in the NFL. In 2014, we have Pryor, who is playing like a 5th round safety, and after Amaro there is no one making an impact. Despite the need at WR, they didn't take one til the 4th round, and that guy was so bad they've already cut him. Then you look at the way he handled FA at CB, and his big move was head case Dimitri Patterson--a terrible decision.

    Decker was a good signing. But he wasn't enough. This Jets team is proving to be one of the least talented, worst coached teams in the league. We are Oakland East. How is Idzik not in part repsonsible for this state of affairs? He has demonstrably made the team worse. The players he has drafted aren't even good enough to replace the bad veterans cloggin this roster--they won't be a big part of any Jets revival.

    I was an Idzik defender despite my concerns about his draft priorities. Liked the Amaro and McDougle picks, and while I was puzzled that they would take a safety in round 1 when there were so many good WRs on the board, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. But now that things have panned out the way they have, I think we are starting to get a read on the quality aspect of his drafts. So far, they have been poor. Too many wasted picks, too many holes remaining on this team.

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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by jamesfyo123 on Sun 12 Oct 2014 - 19:02

    I think that criticizing Idzik for taking a player with an injury history is silly because Idzik is not a medical expert and did not make the medical evaluations. All Idzik can do in such a scenario is pass on all of the player's medical information to the team's medical staff for them to evaluate and give him their thoughts. Apparently, the team doctors thought well enough of Milliner, McDougle, and anyone else who the Jets might have drafted to green light their being selected.
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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by GratefulJet on Sun 12 Oct 2014 - 19:38

    jamesfyo123 wrote:I think that criticizing Idzik for taking a player with an injury history is silly because Idzik is not a medical expert and did not make the medical evaluations. All Idzik can do in such a scenario is pass on all of the player's medical information to the team's medical staff for them to evaluate and give him their thoughts. Apparently, the team doctors thought well enough of Milliner, McDougle, and anyone else who the Jets might have drafted to green light their being selected.

    That's a complete copout. By that logic, there will always be an underling to scape goat, no matter the problem.

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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by jamesfyo123 on Sun 12 Oct 2014 - 19:47

    GratefulJet wrote:
    jamesfyo123 wrote:I think that criticizing Idzik for taking a player with an injury history is silly because Idzik is not a medical expert and did not make the medical evaluations. All Idzik can do in such a scenario is pass on all of the player's medical information to the team's medical staff for them to evaluate and give him their thoughts. Apparently, the team doctors thought well enough of Milliner, McDougle, and anyone else who the Jets might have drafted to green light their being selected.

    That's a complete copout. By that logic, there will always be an underling to scape goat, no matter the problem.
    No, because a GM is supposed to have ability in evaluating talent. IMO there is no way one can reasonably expect any GM to make valid evaluations of players' medical history.

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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by soj on Sun 12 Oct 2014 - 20:22

    GratefulJet wrote:
    Blindsidebrick wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:Blown Achilles, out for the year.  We're in the market for a #1 QB, #1 CB, #1 WR, and pass rusher...like we were the day we hired Idzik...


    A shot at Idzik. No way. Never saw that coming from you.


    The criticism of the Milliner pick is lame. He was the top rated CB in that draft out of college football powerhouse Alabama. This label of him as "injury prone" is bogus. It's "I told ya so" nonsense.

    Idzik brought in Decker and drafted Amaro. Both are good receivers. Both are upgrades in offense. That argument fails, too. Everyone's a genius after the fact.

    We're reaching now. Let's go up top to find blame. When the majority of the blame lies with Rex and the players. Idzik isn't getting fired. So just exhale. Rex probably is though. And the Geno Smith experiment is on life support. Let's focus on where change is likely to occur.

    Could not disagree more with this entire perspective. First off, calling Milliner injury-prone is completely valid, because he is injury prone. 55 has already documented this. He had 5 surgeries in college, so this was certainly something you could see coming. Some people are more resilient to the violence of football than others. Milliner has demonstrated that he is not resilient. This latest injury came without contact. He was rushing the extra point and ruptured his Achilles? Are you kidding me? He is a brittle bag of bones.

    The other point I take exception to is the general "criticism of Idzik is off-limits" attitude. It is completely justified. Two drafts, 20 players drafted. How many are making a real contribution to the team? I count two: Richardson and Amaro. None of the other OL taken in 2013 are good enough to replace the human turnstile Winters, who is cementing a reputation as one of the worst guards in the NFL.  In 2014, we have Pryor, who is playing like a 5th round safety, and after Amaro there is no one making an impact. Despite the need at WR, they didn't take one til the 4th round, and that guy was so bad they've already cut him. Then you look at the way he handled FA at CB, and his big move was head case Dimitri Patterson--a terrible decision.

    Decker was a good signing. But he wasn't enough. This Jets team is proving to be one of the least talented, worst coached teams in the league. We are Oakland East. How is Idzik not in part repsonsible for this state of affairs? He has demonstrably made the team worse. The players he has drafted aren't even good enough to replace the bad veterans cloggin this roster--they won't be a big part of any Jets revival.

    I was an Idzik defender despite my concerns about his draft priorities. Liked the Amaro and McDougle picks, and while I was puzzled that they would take a safety in round 1 when there were so many good WRs on the board, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. But now that things have panned out the way they have, I think we are starting to get a read on the quality aspect of his drafts. So far, they have been poor. Too many wasted picks, too many holes remaining on this team.


    have to agree... and while hindsight is 20/20 this team is not very good at all irrespective of their showing today.

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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by LIJETFAN on Sun 12 Oct 2014 - 21:54

    Milliner being done for the year is not surprising. He is just not a durable player. He can't get on the field. Achilles injuries are one year injuries too. He has a lot of work to do.

    As far criticizing Idzik - the Jets are 1-5, so the decisions he made are 1-5 decisions as Mike Tannenbaum would say. The way this team is constructed, the talent, their play on the field is an organizational problem. Everyone is fair game. Idzik Rex, Geno, Marty, the O-Line, Terry Bradway, the water boy, every one in the organization should be on high alert.

    I think Idzik gets more time. But honestly, if I was Woody Johnson, I would just start over. Clean house. New GM, new Head Coach, new Personnel Group, New QB, new O-line, new receivers, and so on. Of the current staff, I would keep Dennis Thurman and the D-line coach, and that's it. Everyone else, gone. That's won't happen, but I would want to wipe the slate the clean.

    Idzik gets more time to build his program, and realistically he probably should. But, his track record so far is not good. The Jets are 9-14 since he took over as GM. That makes Rex and Idzik a 9-14 pair. That's not good.

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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by SackExchange on Sun 12 Oct 2014 - 23:27

    This fan base will never give anyone the chance to actually put a plan in place.

    Head coach? Calls for a firing after the first losing streak.

    QB? Throws a few picks, calls for the backup.

    GM? Every pick better start, or you start packing your bags.

    Why anyone would want to come to the Jets and deal with the press and this fan base is beyond me.
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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by SackExchange on Sun 12 Oct 2014 - 23:28

    LIJETFAN wrote:Milliner being done for the year is not surprising.  He is just not a durable player.  He can't get on the field.  Achilles injuries are one year injuries too.  He has a lot of work to do.  

    As far criticizing Idzik - the Jets are 1-5, so the decisions he made are 1-5 decisions as Mike Tannenbaum would say.  The way this team is constructed, the talent, their play on the field is an organizational problem.  Everyone is fair game.  Idzik Rex, Geno, Marty, the O-Line, Terry Bradway, the water boy, every one in the organization should be on high alert.  

    I think Idzik gets more time.  But honestly, if I was Woody Johnson, I would just start over.  Clean house.  New GM, new Head Coach, new Personnel Group, New QB, new O-line, new receivers, and so on.  Of the current staff, I would keep Dennis Thurman and the D-line coach, and that's it.  Everyone else, gone.  That's won't happen, but I would want to wipe the slate the clean.  

    Idzik gets more time to build his program, and realistically he probably should.  But, his track record so far is not good.  The Jets are 9-14 since he took over as GM.  That makes Rex and Idzik a 9-14 pair.  That's not good.  

    I don't think you can bring in a new HC, and expect him to inherit the old DC and DL coach. You're tying his hands before he even takes the job.

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    Re: Dee Milliner

    Post by jamesfyo123 on Mon 13 Oct 2014 - 1:12

    SackExchange wrote:
    LIJETFAN wrote:Milliner being done for the year is not surprising.  He is just not a durable player.  He can't get on the field.  Achilles injuries are one year injuries too.  He has a lot of work to do.  

    As far criticizing Idzik - the Jets are 1-5, so the decisions he made are 1-5 decisions as Mike Tannenbaum would say.  The way this team is constructed, the talent, their play on the field is an organizational problem.  Everyone is fair game.  Idzik Rex, Geno, Marty, the O-Line, Terry Bradway, the water boy, every one in the organization should be on high alert.  

    I think Idzik gets more time.  But honestly, if I was Woody Johnson, I would just start over.  Clean house.  New GM, new Head Coach, new Personnel Group, New QB, new O-line, new receivers, and so on.  Of the current staff, I would keep Dennis Thurman and the D-line coach, and that's it.  Everyone else, gone.  That's won't happen, but I would want to wipe the slate the clean.  

    Idzik gets more time to build his program, and realistically he probably should.  But, his track record so far is not good.  The Jets are 9-14 since he took over as GM.  That makes Rex and Idzik a 9-14 pair.  That's not good.  

    I don't think you can bring in a new HC, and expect him to inherit the old DC and DL coach. You're tying his hands before he even takes the job.
    I would agree. I just hope that our new coach still plays a 3-4. We have a lot of great talent that fits uniquely well in it. I could see a new coach trade Coples around the draft if that's the case, I feel like his transition is Rex's pet project (unless he shows himself to be an awesome pass rusher by the end of the year, which I doubt. He seems to project as a more all-around type prospect). If we switch to a 4-3 then I could see both Snacks and Big Ken traded. Mo and Sheldon would probably be the two DTs in that scheme.

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    Re: Dee Milliner

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