Geno Smith

McJet wrote:

skop wrote:

Superman55 wrote:

Seaver wrote:he gave Manning that talent but Manning still made his share of mistakes the rookie season.  The QB still has control over his own good/bad decisions.  Geno is not good at them down the field 10+ yards. He's not a complete QB, thus he cannot be a franchise QB.

hahahahahahahaha

For his career, Brady completes just over 20% of his passes that travel more than 10 yards in the air.  

This year, it's closer to 10%.

Guess he's not a complete QB.

Brady takes what Defenses give him, frustrates them, and then they break/do something dumb/overreach/ etc. Rich Gannon was calling the game yesterday, and pointing out all of the time Geno was looking down field, but had wide open TE's right in front of him for 5-7 yard pitch & catches...

He has to start seeing that D's are going to give that. 3.34 yards at a time and you never have to come off of the field.

Yea, the problem is that's when Vick was in the game.

Yeah. Geno was obviously horrific, but I distinctly remember that he was pointing that out on the teleprompter while Vick was in the game.

Vick gets the start. Rex must be pleased, as it gives him at least some shot to win.

SackExchange wrote:Vick gets the start. Rex must be pleased, as it gives him at least some shot to win.

I don't remember the exact quote but this is close to what he said when he announced Vick would start. 

I am thinking about the immediate future not long term. IMO that's whats wrong with having a GM with a long term plan and a HC who is fighting for his job

Did Geno just say that he thinks he can still be a "franchise QB"?

I just want to go on record and say that I was wrong about Geno. I gave him every benefit of the doubt over and over again and I really hoped that he would be our franchise QB. He seems like a good kid who tries exceptionally hard. He also showed a lot of flashes of potential, but alas...

I don't know if anyone else heard the sound byte, but in an interview after the game, a Bills defender was saying how they knew Geno was a one-read guy who had problems if his primary wasn't open. He also said that he was STILL staring down receivers allowing them to anticipate throws and jump the routes. I know that some of you have noted these things before, but to hear that from an opposing player, WOW. There just can't be any doubt right now that he is just not a good QB. Will he be eventually? IDK, but I don't think there is even the remotest of chances fro that to happen if he remains in NY. Sorry to say.

WilliesDad wrote:I just want to go on record and say that I was wrong about Geno.  I gave him every benefit of the doubt over and over again and I really hoped that he would be our franchise QB.  He seems like a good kid who tries exceptionally hard.  He also showed a lot of flashes of potential, but alas...

I don't know if anyone else heard the sound byte, but in an interview after the game, a Bills defender was saying how they knew Geno was a one-read guy who had problems if his primary wasn't open.  He also said that he was STILL staring down receivers allowing them to anticipate throws and jump the routes.  I know that some of you have noted these things before, but to hear that from an opposing player, WOW.  There just can't be any doubt right now that he is just not a good QB.  Will he be eventually?  IDK, but I don't think there is even the remotest of chances fro that to happen if he remains in NY.  Sorry to say.    

this isn't a 'New York' issue. This is a growing trend of ill-prepared college QBs being thrust into starting jobs they are nowhere near qualified to do. There's too much to strip down off these read-option QBs. It will take years to make them functional in a conventional NFL offense. If you want to run your QB and expose him to hits, then have at it. Take a look last night at Colt McCoy. He's been around a few years now, yet he is still missing basic elements in his passing game - when in doubt he tucked the ball and ran.

Once upon a time QBs scrambled........scrambled to buy time for receivers to get open.........the term is not the same anymore.........QBs take off now. It's their instincts from college kicking in to make a play.....but it won't win games in the NFL.

Go down the list of QBs coming out.......cross off the ones from a pistol/read option offense. Mariota is front and center. Hundley another. Don't get sucked into the trap so many GMs do these days.

Here's my favorite excuse.......board value. Guess what.....the 'board' has been wrong for years yet no one wants to challenge it often enough. Geno was taken 2nd round because of the almighty board value. How bout some independent thought/scouting to see a kid who did most of his work in college at/near the line of scrimmage. Kid was a reach at best......not value.

The gap is growing.......gotta stop the madness and stick to pocket passers. Mobility is a plus, but it shouldn't be the primary factor to select a QB. In other words.....athletic QBs aren't necessarily the answer.

Really good post Seaver, I totally agree. Accuracy, intelligence and arm strength are much more important factors to a successful QB than mobility. I want my QB throwing the ball, and my running backs running the ball. The notion that you can "suprirse" or "trick" other teams by having your players do unexpected things is fine, but it's better on the whole to let your players do the things they're supposed to do, IMO. They have more practice at it!

Seaver wrote:they need a different set of eyes looking down that well.........if Idzik thought Geno was the answer and didn't find the need to draft higher this year with one of the 12 picks for another......why in the hell would we want him picking again?

I wonder if Caldwell is being questioned about Bortles? He has more turnovers than Smith even though Henne started the year at qb. Maybe the Jaguars need a new set of eyes as well. Then again, like I mentioned in the Idzik thread, it's a good thing Paul Allen didn't get a new set of eyes after Jackson, Whitehurst, and Flynn were aquired. I'm sure our new gm will get at least 20 games before we see the threads popping up asking for his head.

Seaver wrote:

WilliesDad wrote:I just want to go on record and say that I was wrong about Geno.  I gave him every benefit of the doubt over and over again and I really hoped that he would be our franchise QB.  He seems like a good kid who tries exceptionally hard.  He also showed a lot of flashes of potential, but alas...

I don't know if anyone else heard the sound byte, but in an interview after the game, a Bills defender was saying how they knew Geno was a one-read guy who had problems if his primary wasn't open.  He also said that he was STILL staring down receivers allowing them to anticipate throws and jump the routes.  I know that some of you have noted these things before, but to hear that from an opposing player, WOW.  There just can't be any doubt right now that he is just not a good QB.  Will he be eventually?  IDK, but I don't think there is even the remotest of chances fro that to happen if he remains in NY.  Sorry to say.    

this isn't a 'New York' issue.  This is a growing trend of ill-prepared college QBs being thrust into starting jobs they are nowhere near qualified to do.  There's too much to strip down off these read-option QBs.  It will take years to make them functional in a conventional NFL offense.  If you want to run your QB and expose him to hits, then have at it.  Take a look last night at Colt McCoy.  He's been around a few years now, yet he is still missing basic elements in his passing game - when in doubt he tucked the ball and ran.  

Once upon a time QBs scrambled........scrambled to buy time for receivers to get open.........the term is not the same anymore.........QBs take off now.  It's their instincts from college kicking in to make a play.....but it won't win games in the NFL.  

Go down the list of QBs coming out.......cross off the ones from a pistol/read option offense.  Mariota is front and center.  Hundley another.  Don't get sucked into the trap so many GMs do these days.

Here's my favorite excuse.......board value.  Guess what.....the 'board' has been wrong for years yet no one wants to challenge it often enough.  Geno was taken 2nd round because of the almighty board value.  How bout some independent thought/scouting to see a kid who did most of his work in college at/near the line of scrimmage.  Kid was a reach at best......not value.

The gap is growing.......gotta stop the madness and stick to pocket passers.  Mobility is a plus, but it shouldn't be the primary factor to select a QB.  In other words.....athletic QBs aren't necessarily the answer.

While I agree with the premise (mobility is a substitute for the ability to read and exploit a defense by throwing the ball), I am not sure I would lump Mariota in with those read-option QBs. He definitely buys time by scrambling, and he draws the defense with his rollouts before throwing the ball. He also will stand in the pocket and throw the ball downfield, sidelines and seams. Yes, he also runs designed QB draws, and at 6'4" 210 has the speed and size to finish his runs. I haven't seen a ton of tape on him, but what I have seen indicates to me he is very accurate and has the vision to see the whole field. He can make all the throws. If his mobility gives him another dimension, I don't see anything wrong with that. He is a bigger, faster Russell Wilson. I think he's far more polished than Kaepernik.

Allow me to be the first to call for the firing of the guy who succeeds John Idzik as Jets GM. That unnamed person is an idiot. He didn't win immediately, and he didn't take the guy I would have taken.

FIRE IDZIK'S REPLACEMENT!

GratefulJet wrote:

Seaver wrote:

WilliesDad wrote:I just want to go on record and say that I was wrong about Geno.  I gave him every benefit of the doubt over and over again and I really hoped that he would be our franchise QB.  He seems like a good kid who tries exceptionally hard.  He also showed a lot of flashes of potential, but alas...

I don't know if anyone else heard the sound byte, but in an interview after the game, a Bills defender was saying how they knew Geno was a one-read guy who had problems if his primary wasn't open.  He also said that he was STILL staring down receivers allowing them to anticipate throws and jump the routes.  I know that some of you have noted these things before, but to hear that from an opposing player, WOW.  There just can't be any doubt right now that he is just not a good QB.  Will he be eventually?  IDK, but I don't think there is even the remotest of chances fro that to happen if he remains in NY.  Sorry to say.    

this isn't a 'New York' issue.  This is a growing trend of ill-prepared college QBs being thrust into starting jobs they are nowhere near qualified to do.  There's too much to strip down off these read-option QBs.  It will take years to make them functional in a conventional NFL offense.  If you want to run your QB and expose him to hits, then have at it.  Take a look last night at Colt McCoy.  He's been around a few years now, yet he is still missing basic elements in his passing game - when in doubt he tucked the ball and ran.  

Once upon a time QBs scrambled........scrambled to buy time for receivers to get open.........the term is not the same anymore.........QBs take off now.  It's their instincts from college kicking in to make a play.....but it won't win games in the NFL.  

Go down the list of QBs coming out.......cross off the ones from a pistol/read option offense.  Mariota is front and center.  Hundley another.  Don't get sucked into the trap so many GMs do these days.

Here's my favorite excuse.......board value.  Guess what.....the 'board' has been wrong for years yet no one wants to challenge it often enough.  Geno was taken 2nd round because of the almighty board value.  How bout some independent thought/scouting to see a kid who did most of his work in college at/near the line of scrimmage.  Kid was a reach at best......not value.

The gap is growing.......gotta stop the madness and stick to pocket passers.  Mobility is a plus, but it shouldn't be the primary factor to select a QB.  In other words.....athletic QBs aren't necessarily the answer.

While I agree with the premise (mobility is a substitute for the ability to read and exploit a defense by throwing the ball), I am not sure I would lump Mariota in with those read-option QBs. He definitely buys time by scrambling, and he draws the defense with his rollouts before throwing the ball. He also will stand in the pocket and throw the ball downfield, sidelines and seams. Yes, he also runs designed QB draws, and at 6'4" 210 has the speed and size to finish his runs. I haven't seen a ton of tape on him, but what I have seen indicates to me he is very accurate and has the vision to see the whole field.  He can make all the throws. If his mobility gives him another dimension, I don't see anything wrong with that. He is a bigger, faster Russell Wilson. I think he's far more polished than Kaepernik.

I pretty well agree with this.

If I said anything about Mariota, I'd say he's a good pocket passer with more athleticism than other pocket passers. The one thing I would like to see, even if it cost him some speed, would be for him to bulk up just a bit more. Not Big Ben more, but a bit more.

any highlight reel of Mariota I've seen shows almost as many runs by him as passing plays. I'm not sold on him running a conventional offense without a lot of study. that means he sits a year at minimum. I don't like the idea of starting ANY QB in this upcoming draft.

Seaver wrote:

WilliesDad wrote:I just want to go on record and say that I was wrong about Geno.  I gave him every benefit of the doubt over and over again and I really hoped that he would be our franchise QB.  He seems like a good kid who tries exceptionally hard.  He also showed a lot of flashes of potential, but alas...

I don't know if anyone else heard the sound byte, but in an interview after the game, a Bills defender was saying how they knew Geno was a one-read guy who had problems if his primary wasn't open.  He also said that he was STILL staring down receivers allowing them to anticipate throws and jump the routes.  I know that some of you have noted these things before, but to hear that from an opposing player, WOW.  There just can't be any doubt right now that he is just not a good QB.  Will he be eventually?  IDK, but I don't think there is even the remotest of chances fro that to happen if he remains in NY.  Sorry to say.    

this isn't a 'New York' issue.  This is a growing trend of ill-prepared college QBs being thrust into starting jobs they are nowhere near qualified to do.  There's too much to strip down off these read-option QBs.  It will take years to make them functional in a conventional NFL offense.  If you want to run your QB and expose him to hits, then have at it.  Take a look last night at Colt McCoy.  He's been around a few years now, yet he is still missing basic elements in his passing game - when in doubt he tucked the ball and ran.  

Once upon a time QBs scrambled........scrambled to buy time for receivers to get open.........the term is not the same anymore.........QBs take off now.  It's their instincts from college kicking in to make a play.....but it won't win games in the NFL.  

Go down the list of QBs coming out.......cross off the ones from a pistol/read option offense.  Mariota is front and center.  Hundley another.  Don't get sucked into the trap so many GMs do these days.

Here's my favorite excuse.......board value.  Guess what.....the 'board' has been wrong for years yet no one wants to challenge it often enough.  Geno was taken 2nd round because of the almighty board value.  How bout some independent thought/scouting to see a kid who did most of his work in college at/near the line of scrimmage.  Kid was a reach at best......not value.

The gap is growing.......gotta stop the madness and stick to pocket passers.  Mobility is a plus, but it shouldn't be the primary factor to select a QB.  In other words.....athletic QBs aren't necessarily the answer.

Last time I looked, the last two pocket passers the Jets had , nearly had their arms torn from their sockets. it doesn't hurt to have a mobile QB, who can buy some time. We're not looking at an all pro offensive line here in pass protection.

DonMaynard wrote:

Seaver wrote:

WilliesDad wrote:I just want to go on record and say that I was wrong about Geno.  I gave him every benefit of the doubt over and over again and I really hoped that he would be our franchise QB.  He seems like a good kid who tries exceptionally hard.  He also showed a lot of flashes of potential, but alas...

I don't know if anyone else heard the sound byte, but in an interview after the game, a Bills defender was saying how they knew Geno was a one-read guy who had problems if his primary wasn't open.  He also said that he was STILL staring down receivers allowing them to anticipate throws and jump the routes.  I know that some of you have noted these things before, but to hear that from an opposing player, WOW.  There just can't be any doubt right now that he is just not a good QB.  Will he be eventually?  IDK, but I don't think there is even the remotest of chances fro that to happen if he remains in NY.  Sorry to say.    

this isn't a 'New York' issue.  This is a growing trend of ill-prepared college QBs being thrust into starting jobs they are nowhere near qualified to do.  There's too much to strip down off these read-option QBs.  It will take years to make them functional in a conventional NFL offense.  If you want to run your QB and expose him to hits, then have at it.  Take a look last night at Colt McCoy.  He's been around a few years now, yet he is still missing basic elements in his passing game - when in doubt he tucked the ball and ran.  

Once upon a time QBs scrambled........scrambled to buy time for receivers to get open.........the term is not the same anymore.........QBs take off now.  It's their instincts from college kicking in to make a play.....but it won't win games in the NFL.  

Go down the list of QBs coming out.......cross off the ones from a pistol/read option offense.  Mariota is front and center.  Hundley another.  Don't get sucked into the trap so many GMs do these days.

Here's my favorite excuse.......board value.  Guess what.....the 'board' has been wrong for years yet no one wants to challenge it often enough.  Geno was taken 2nd round because of the almighty board value.  How bout some independent thought/scouting to see a kid who did most of his work in college at/near the line of scrimmage.  Kid was a reach at best......not value.

The gap is growing.......gotta stop the madness and stick to pocket passers.  Mobility is a plus, but it shouldn't be the primary factor to select a QB.  In other words.....athletic QBs aren't necessarily the answer.

Last time I looked, the last two pocket passers the Jets had , nearly had their arms torn from their sockets. it doesn't hurt to have a mobile QB, who can buy some time. We're not looking at an all pro offensive line here in pass protection.

there is a HUGE difference between a QB who buys time with his legs to still make a downfield pass and a QB who takes off when his first read is covered. You absolutely must first have a QB who read his progressions quickly. No getting around that. Yes, it would be helpful to have some mobility to move around/sidestep the rush....but the focus of the QB must be his eyes staying downfield.

Without question the OL must be upgraded this offseason with both draft and FA........Colon has to go. Assuming this basic element of the GM's job is done, we're back to the QB and what he must do.

Kimberley A. Martin @KMart_LI · 2m 2 minutes ago
GM John Idzik tells @JeaneCoakley that he doesn't know if he has a franchise QB on his roster right now #geno

SackExchange wrote:Allow me to be the first to call for the firing of the guy who succeeds John Idzik as Jets GM. That unnamed person is an idiot. He didn't win immediately, and he didn't take the guy I would have taken.

FIRE IDZIK'S REPLACEMENT!

On a serious note, how many qualified GM's are gonna take an offer to be GM of the Jets seriously, when the previous GM got canned after less than two years? I know the QB situation weighs heavily too, but I wouldn't go anywhere near the Jets as GM if Idzik got fired this quickly.

Seaver wrote:any highlight reel of Mariota I've seen shows almost as many runs by him as passing plays.  I'm not sold on him running a conventional offense without a lot of study.  that means he sits a year at minimum.  I don't like the idea of starting ANY QB in this upcoming draft.

It's true, but is that really an indictment of his potential as a NFL QB or simply a case of a player taking what teams give him, and him trying to advance the football? I mean, if he's got the legs and there's a huge hole right in front of him, why not take it? He's getting 20+ yards on a lot of those runs.

I guess what I'm saying is you have to look at what happens when he does throw the ball, instead of judging him for having executed the plays his OC called.

GratefulJet wrote:

Seaver wrote:any highlight reel of Mariota I've seen shows almost as many runs by him as passing plays.  I'm not sold on him running a conventional offense without a lot of study.  that means he sits a year at minimum.  I don't like the idea of starting ANY QB in this upcoming draft.

It's true, but is that really an indictment of his potential as a NFL QB or simply a case of a player taking what teams give him, and him trying to advance the football? I mean, if he's got the legs and there's a huge hole right in front of him, why not take it? He's getting 20+ yards on a lot of those runs.

I guess what I'm saying is you have to look at what happens when he does throw the ball, instead of judging him for having executed the plays his OC called.

and that makes him an excellent college QB. IMO, that also makes him unprepared for the NFL. It's not his fault.....it is what it is. There's no substitute for experience at that position. If you have a quick read offense.....how can you be prepared as a pocket passer in the NFL? That's the biggest trap watching college football......assuming just because he executes the plays called that he can execute any play called at the next level. The fail rate for college QBs is seemingly getting worse. Offenses are more complex and the kids are getting less exposure.......that's a widening gap.

skop wrote:

Seaver wrote:they need a different set of eyes looking down that well.........if Idzik thought Geno was the answer and didn't find the need to draft higher this year with one of the 12 picks for another......why in the hell would we want him picking again?

Idzik took the best available QB on the board. No shame in that.

I felt terribly for the kid yesterday.

I don't at all... I rarely listen to WFAN anymore esp since I moved to AZ  but fig I listen to them rant...(LOL) anyway, when Carl banks got on he made some very valid points...  his best statement was asking how Geno could play one of his best games if not the best game of his career and 10 days later stink up the joint? He said it come down to preparation!  

When we criticize Rex its mostly because they are undisciplined and seemly unprepared for most games .... even so I still think Geno at his best is poor... 31 ints 24 starts says it all.

Seaver wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Seaver wrote:any highlight reel of Mariota I've seen shows almost as many runs by him as passing plays.  I'm not sold on him running a conventional offense without a lot of study.  that means he sits a year at minimum.  I don't like the idea of starting ANY QB in this upcoming draft.

It's true, but is that really an indictment of his potential as a NFL QB or simply a case of a player taking what teams give him, and him trying to advance the football? I mean, if he's got the legs and there's a huge hole right in front of him, why not take it? He's getting 20+ yards on a lot of those runs.

I guess what I'm saying is you have to look at what happens when he does throw the ball, instead of judging him for having executed the plays his OC called.

and that makes him an excellent college QB.  IMO, that also makes him unprepared for the NFL.  It's not his fault.....it is what it is.  There's no substitute for experience at that position.  If you have a quick read offense.....how can you be prepared as a pocket passer in the NFL?  That's the biggest trap watching college football......assuming just because he executes the plays called that he can execute any play called at the next level.  The fail rate for college QBs is seemingly getting worse.  Offenses are more complex and the kids are getting less exposure.......that's a widening gap.

You make good points, 41. Not sure it disqualifies Mariota. Have to rely on what the scouts say. Not in love with the decision making so far with respect to the draft.

GratefulJet wrote:

Seaver wrote:

GratefulJet wrote:

Seaver wrote:any highlight reel of Mariota I've seen shows almost as many runs by him as passing plays.  I'm not sold on him running a conventional offense without a lot of study.  that means he sits a year at minimum.  I don't like the idea of starting ANY QB in this upcoming draft.

It's true, but is that really an indictment of his potential as a NFL QB or simply a case of a player taking what teams give him, and him trying to advance the football? I mean, if he's got the legs and there's a huge hole right in front of him, why not take it? He's getting 20+ yards on a lot of those runs.

I guess what I'm saying is you have to look at what happens when he does throw the ball, instead of judging him for having executed the plays his OC called.

and that makes him an excellent college QB.  IMO, that also makes him unprepared for the NFL.  It's not his fault.....it is what it is.  There's no substitute for experience at that position.  If you have a quick read offense.....how can you be prepared as a pocket passer in the NFL?  That's the biggest trap watching college football......assuming just because he executes the plays called that he can execute any play called at the next level.  The fail rate for college QBs is seemingly getting worse.  Offenses are more complex and the kids are getting less exposure.......that's a widening gap.

You make good points, 41. Not sure it disqualifies Mariota. Have to rely on what the scouts say. Not in love with the decision making so far with respect to the draft.

not sure why......the board is wrong year after year with QBs. Anyone can pick the Lucks, Mannings, and Rivers. The trick is to apply what will succeed at the NFL level with the skillset/experience at the college level.......if you don't have a match you have lots of work to do and high probability of failure. I've seen so many scouting reports that scouts ignore their own assessments to still rank a kid high. If it mentions anything about needing to make better decisions - run away. I still see teams ignore this in favor of athleticism/size. That's just dumb.

Blindsidebrick wrote:

SackExchange wrote:Allow me to be the first to call for the firing of the guy who succeeds John Idzik as Jets GM. That unnamed person is an idiot. He didn't win immediately, and he didn't take the guy I would have taken.

FIRE IDZIK'S REPLACEMENT!

On a serious note, how many qualified GM's are gonna take an offer to be GM of the Jets seriously, when the previous GM got canned after less than two years? I know the QB situation weighs heavily too, but I wouldn't go anywhere near the Jets as GM if Idzik got fired this quickly.

It's true. All we hear about with the most successful franchises is continuity, and a great number of Jets fans, fueled by the media, want more heads to roll than in the French Revolution.

SackExchange wrote:

Blindsidebrick wrote:

SackExchange wrote:Allow me to be the first to call for the firing of the guy who succeeds John Idzik as Jets GM. That unnamed person is an idiot. He didn't win immediately, and he didn't take the guy I would have taken.

FIRE IDZIK'S REPLACEMENT!

On a serious note, how many qualified GM's are gonna take an offer to be GM of the Jets seriously, when the previous GM got canned after less than two years? I know the QB situation weighs heavily too, but I wouldn't go anywhere near the Jets as GM if Idzik got fired this quickly.

It's true. All we hear about with the most successful franchises is continuity, and a great number of Jets fans, fueled by the media, want more heads to roll than in the French Revolution.

Agreed...Idzik completed a task that most Jet fans wanted } END THE SANCHEZ ERA. Task completed! He brought in the best QB on the board in a draft year that wasn't a good year for QBs. Fans were still excited about it. If we're judging Idzik based on Geno, then we really need to sit back, take a deep breath, and see that we got a first round talent (as projected by scouts) in the second round at the QB spot; that maneuver saved us big $$$$.

1.) got rid of #6
2.) got #7 where we did
3.) got him on the cheap
4.) hasn't worked out

Like I said, if we're judging JI on Geno, he's done a decent job.

Hmm..... Mehta and Cimini said that Geno "lost the locker room" and not even "his biggest supporter Willie Colon" believes in him anymore.




Kimberley A. Martin @KMart_LI · 15m 15 minutes ago
Willie Colon said he had no reax to Vick being named the starter. "I think the biggest misconception is we don't believe in Geno."

Interesting stance on Geno by 2 former coaches. Both Cowher and Mariucci feel that Geno might not be a lost cause yet:

http://nypost.com/2014/10/29/michael-irvin-makes-case-for-rex-ryan-to-keep-job/