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    Superman55
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    Jameis Winston

    Post by Superman55 on Wed 7 Jan 2015 - 13:26

    via ESPN Insider:

    Winston a possible No. 1 pick
    But Jameis will face many questions about his maturity during draft process
    Updated: January 7, 2015, 12:58 PM ET
    By Mel Kiper Jr. | ESPN Insider
    11COMMENTS0EMAILPRINT
    Jameis Winston To Enter NFL Draft

    George Whitfield Jr. and Todd McShay react to the news that Seminoles QB Jameis Winston will enter the NFL draft.
    Tags: NCF, Florida State Seminoles, NFL, NFL Draft
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    Is Jameis Winston Best QB In NFL Draft?

    Jameis Winston is going to be a big story this spring. But there are going to be people using phrases like "unprecedented" surrounding him as he enters the draft process, and those will be wrong.

    For instance, some will say no quarterback will ever face the media scrutiny that Winston is about to face during the draft process. But Johnny Manziel faced it last year. Cam Newton faced it a few years ago. Some will say it's weird to think Winston could go No. 1 coming off what was clearly a down year for him statistically. But Jadeveon Clowney did just that ... again, last year. Some will say it's inevitable that quarterbacks will rise, and a team is certain to get desperate and take Winston or Marcus Mariota No. 1. But two years ago, plenty of teams needed QBs, and a left tackle from Central Michigan went No. 1, and a QB I had a third-round grade on (E.J. Manuel) was the only guy to land in Round 1. It's not an apples to apples talent comparison, but the point remains: when it comes to the NFL draft, and to teams looking to draft the potential face of their franchise, very little is unprecedented.

    Here's what they'll consider with Winston, and where I think he could go.

    Winston is the most advanced QB in this class.

    While NFL teams will have major questions about Winston's makeup and his off-field issues, between the lines he shows the ability to anticipate, read defenses, get through his progressions, utilize fabulous pocket sense and footwork, and deliver the ball all over the field with pace. When teams ask Winston to digest schemes and concepts and show them things on the whiteboard, they're going to see a sharp football mind. His football acumen was a reason he was so successful as a redshirt freshman -- when teams tried to dial up the pressure, Winston was able to see it and take advantage. He processes things quickly. In terms of an ability to transition quickly to the NFL and deal with more complexity in schemes, Winston is going to get high marks. When you factor in the intangibles it's easy to rate Mariota ahead of Winston, but there is still plenty of skepticism about whether Mariota would be as good if the system at Oregon wasn't such a perfect fit for his skill set.

    Those interceptions are a major concern -- but again, not an unprecedented total.

    We know all INTs aren't created equal. And it was clear this year if you watched Winston consistently that he wasn't always in sync with his wide receivers - he lost Kelvin Benjamin and Kenny Shaw to the NFL, two of his favorite targets. But a number of his 18 INTs this year were forced throws and simply inaccurate, and I think he actually regressed in terms of his willingness to just check it down and not always look for the bigger play. He'll need to continue to improve his ball placement, because it's simply not elite. And he needs to be be better about forcing the ball into tight windows. That said, I do think Winston makes mistakes of aggression because he can make pretty much every throw and always sees opportunities. And don't let someone tell you the INTs are a non-starter. After all, Matt Ryan threw 19 of them in his final season at Boston College before going No. 3 overall.

    Durability will be a major plus.

    There are always exceptions to the rule on looking for size (Russell Wilson is certain to be one for years), but Winston has an ideal frame at 6-4 and 235 pounds. He's actually similar to Andrew Luck as a mobile guy who is built to take punishment. The assumption of durability has a great deal of value.

    The off-field maturity issues will be fair game, as they should be.

    I've been as hard on Winston as anyone in this area. I've said I don't think he gets it. I've said he has to grow up. Teams are absolutely right to make these questions the focus of their interviews with him, and I don't think Winston can simply point to his youth, because plenty of other guys at his position in particular have been able to deal with success and stay out of trouble off the field. Could the maturity questions cost him the chance to go in the top five? Absolutely.

    He's not a lock for the top five.

    Both the Buccaneers (No. 1) and the Titans (No. 2) could use a talent upgrade at QB. But there have been myriad cases over the last few years of teams not taking a QB early if they don't think he can be better than what they have on the roster from Day 1. The Chiefs felt they were just average QB play from being good when Andy Reid got there. They made a move for Alex Smith rather than relying on the draft, and they experienced a big turnaround. The Texans needed a QB at draft time last year, but Bill O'Brien and the front office weren't certain a rookie QB would be better than what they had on the roster. They also experienced a big turnaround. A need at QB doesn't guarantee the draft will be where that need is met. Beyond the top two, are we certain the Jets (No. 6) would want to bring Winston to the New York market? In almost every case of obvious QB need, you can imagine a reason why they'd pass on Winston, and that's even before Mariota comes into it.

    At this point, Winston is a possibility at No. 1. But after the season he had, on the field and off, the variance right now feels pretty high. He's a special talent, but whether he'll impress teams in interviews will be crucial, and any other off-field issues could send his stock into a dive.

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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by SackExchange on Wed 7 Jan 2015 - 13:27

    At six, maybe, though he'd have to show me a lot more with his arm. Trading up? That would be a disaster.
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by Superman55 on Wed 7 Jan 2015 - 13:31

    Still a good read.
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by NickSINYC on Wed 7 Jan 2015 - 13:37

    I am not moving up but at 6 he would be hard for me to pass on.
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by Superman55 on Wed 7 Jan 2015 - 13:40

    NickSINYC wrote:I am not moving up but at 6 he would be hard for me to pass on.

    It will be interesting to see if our new coach and GM want to try to groom this kid in NYC.
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by NCgreen12 on Wed 7 Jan 2015 - 14:03

    I just don't see a franchise guy in him and I've seen him a number of times. In lieu of not getting Mariotta I'd rather spend the pick on offensive line, pass rushing OLB or the receiver position.
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by Superman55 on Wed 7 Jan 2015 - 14:25

    NCgreen12 wrote:I just don't see a franchise guy in him and I've seen him a number of times. In lieu of not getting Mariotta I'd rather spend the pick on offensive line, pass rushing OLB or the receiver position.  

    I dont either.  Someone on another thread compared him to McNair, and I could see that in his game, and I really hope he turns into that level of player fo rus or someone else, but McNair was a very mature kid coming out.  I dont see Winston as a very mature kid...i see him doing whatever he wants to do and a kid that benefited from FSU hiding as many of his misdeeds as possible...hopefully pointdexter is right and he lives a life where he has been completely misunderstood, I just think it's more likely FSU has covered up even more than what we've read.

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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by cysporsche on Wed 7 Jan 2015 - 15:33

    NCgreen12 wrote:I just don't see a franchise guy in him and I've seen him a number of times. In lieu of not getting Mariotta I'd rather spend the pick on offensive line, pass rushing OLB or the receiver position.  

    Mike, This is not a great year to draft an OL before the 10-15 range, not @ 6.

    FYI, They are already selling Mariota jersey's in Tampa Bay.

    I think there is a 50/50 chance Winston falls to the Jets @ 6. I'd rather have Cooper and draft Bryce Petty @ 37. Sign Mike Glennon after the Buc's release him, and have Geno, Petty & Glennon compete for the starting gig.

    Go Jets...Cyborg
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by Seaver on Wed 7 Jan 2015 - 15:36

    first question you must ask yourself...is he a franchise QB? If you have any doubt, you pass. I have doubt, so I'm passing - or rather trading down if opportunity arises and it is a better option than just making the pick someone else.
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by Superman55 on Thu 8 Jan 2015 - 8:18

    Ross Tucker going on Winston this morning for during Thursday's game, as he walked into the stadium, he looked directly at the camera, pinched his fingers together, and pretended to smoke a joint in the air , took two puffs of his imaginary joint, and pretended to pass it to his teammate.

    Ross Tucker called it the most immature act he's ever seen a college player do on national TV.  He said as a former scout, and if he was a GM, there isn't a player in the upcoming draft he wouldn't draft over Winston.  He has said about 100 times this morning, no way in he'll he stakes his reputation and family's livelihood on a player this immature.

    Tucker feels Winston is amongst immature players players to ever come out in the draft, worse than Manziel.  He may have more talent than Manziel, but is even more immature.

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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by Pointdexter on Thu 8 Jan 2015 - 9:15

    Superman55 wrote:Ross Tucker going on Winston this morning for during Thursday's game, as he walked into the stadium, he looked directly at the camera, pinched his fingers together, and pretended to smoke a joint in the air , took two puffs of his imaginary joint, and pretended to pass it to his teammate.

    .

    Here is the video. While not 100% conclusive, he certainly will have to answer for this as it doesn't look good. I'm not sure what else he could be doing but I will reserve full judgement until he gives his side of it. Still, my preliminary feeling is disappointment as this would mean he hasn't matured at all over this rough year. And, if true, scratch him off the draft list.

    But, again, I will wait to hear what he has to say. And you can bet he will be questioned on it.


    [url=fansided.com/2015/01/01/jameis-winston-mimics-smoking-joint-rose-bowl-video/]fansided.com/2015/01/01/jameis-winston-mimics-smoking-joint-rose-bowl-video/[/url]
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by SackExchange on Thu 8 Jan 2015 - 13:07

    What is this kid thinking? He already knows there are huge question marks about his maturity and character. If he is declaring for the draft and bringing in representation, you would think he actually cares about improving his image and his draft stock.

    Is he too immature to handle it, or too dumb to realize he's only driving down his draft value? This is just beyond moronic.
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by Seaver on Thu 8 Jan 2015 - 13:12

    and we'd trust him to make the right decisions on the field? Oh hell no.
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by NCgreen12 on Thu 8 Jan 2015 - 13:29

    cysporsche wrote:
    NCgreen12 wrote:I just don't see a franchise guy in him and I've seen him a number of times. In lieu of not getting Mariotta I'd rather spend the pick on offensive line, pass rushing OLB or the receiver position.  

    Mike, This is not a great year to draft an OL before the 10-15 range, not @ 6.

    FYI, They are already selling Mariota jersey's in Tampa Bay.

    I think there is a 50/50 chance Winston falls to the Jets @ 6. I'd rather have Cooper and draft Bryce Petty @ 37. Sign Mike Glennon after the Buc's release him, and have Geno, Petty & Glennon compete for the starting gig.

    Go Jets...Cyborg

    Cy - Not doubt Mariotta is changing from green to orange. I agree with regards to the lack of early first round talent on the offensive line but there are 4-5 OL guys with first round grades. If we did that I would hope we would trade down. I also like not love Cooper but think there's a good chance he's gone. There are however a bunch of pass rushing OLB's available in the 6 hole that we could add and desperately need. Wow, I just had a Gholston flashback (6th pick). That hurt..
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by SackExchange on Thu 8 Jan 2015 - 13:33

    To me, Shereff definitely grades out as a top 10 pick, possibly a top 5.
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by Superman55 on Thu 8 Jan 2015 - 15:42

    NCgreen12 wrote:
    cysporsche wrote:
    NCgreen12 wrote:I just don't see a franchise guy in him and I've seen him a number of times. In lieu of not getting Mariotta I'd rather spend the pick on offensive line, pass rushing OLB or the receiver position.  

    Mike, This is not a great year to draft an OL before the 10-15 range, not @ 6.

    FYI, They are already selling Mariota jersey's in Tampa Bay.

    I think there is a 50/50 chance Winston falls to the Jets @ 6. I'd rather have Cooper and draft Bryce Petty @ 37. Sign Mike Glennon after the Buc's release him, and have Geno, Petty & Glennon compete for the starting gig.

    Go Jets...Cyborg

    Cy - Not doubt Mariotta is changing from green to orange. I agree with regards to the lack of early first round talent on the offensive line but there are 4-5 OL guys with first round grades. If we did that I would hope we would trade down. I also like not love Cooper but think there's a good chance he's gone. There are however a bunch of pass rushing OLB's available in the 6 hole that we could add and desperately need. Wow, I just had a Gholston flashback (6th pick). That hurt..

    Im still hoping for Ray OLB to pair with Richardson and Wilkerson...our own TSizzle...

    http://missouri.247sports.com/Bolt/Shane-Ray-declaring-for-the-NFL-Draft-34474612

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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by Seaver on Thu 8 Jan 2015 - 17:50

    SackExchange wrote:To me, Shereff definitely grades out as a top 10 pick, possibly a top 5.

    unless he grades out as a bona fide future Tackle........I can't advocate drafting a Guard with a premium pick. There are easier ways to fill that spot and use the pick on an elite/costly position.
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by football51 on Thu 8 Jan 2015 - 19:11

    Very polarizing player/person.






    Dane Brugler
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    #NotreDame HC Brian Kelly to @ESPN_Colin: "If I'm making that 1st pick and I need a QB, I'm taking Winston bc of his football intelligence."
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by NickSINYC on Thu 8 Jan 2015 - 19:22

    football51 wrote:Very polarizing player/person.






    Dane Brugler
    ‏@dpbrugler
    #NotreDame HC Brian Kelly to @ESPN_Colin: "If I'm making that 1st pick and I need a QB, I'm taking Winston bc of his football intelligence."

    I have said all along for me NFL talent wise Winston wins easily. I just don't know if I could use the 1st pick in the draft on him due to his personal problems. At 6 and how our team sits right now I think I would have a hard time passing on him if he was still available.
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by Seaver on Fri 9 Jan 2015 - 10:52

    NickSINYC wrote:
    football51 wrote:Very polarizing player/person.






    Dane Brugler
    ‏@dpbrugler
    #NotreDame HC Brian Kelly to @ESPN_Colin: "If I'm making that 1st pick and I need a QB, I'm taking Winston bc of his football intelligence."

    I have said all along for me NFL talent wise Winston wins easily. I just don't know if I could use the 1st pick in the draft on him due to his personal problems. At 6 and how our team sits right now I think I would have a hard time passing on him if he was still available.

    brings us back to Big Ben.......great on the field but a juvenile off of it. Pittsburgh made it work. Can the Jets?
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by football51 on Fri 9 Jan 2015 - 16:33



    Rich Cimini
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    ESPN analyst Trent Dilfer says no comparison between Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston -- Winston more pro-ready. (@ESPNNY98_7FM).
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 9 Jan 2015 - 17:17

    football51 wrote:

    Rich Cimini
    ‏@RichCimini
    ESPN analyst Trent Dilfer says no comparison between Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston -- Winston more pro-ready. (@ESPNNY98_7FM).

    He's also more penalty ready, fine ready, suspension ready, out of the league ready, and jail ready...if that means anything...
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by NickSINYC on Fri 9 Jan 2015 - 17:20

    Superman55 wrote:
    football51 wrote:

    Rich Cimini
    ‏@RichCimini
    ESPN analyst Trent Dilfer says no comparison between Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston -- Winston more pro-ready. (@ESPNNY98_7FM).

    He's also more penalty ready, fine ready, suspension ready, out of the league ready, and jail ready...if that means anything...

    I do not think anyone has much argument with most of your statement but purely on field being able to run a pro offense Winston is clearly better.
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by HYATT™ on Tue 27 Jan 2015 - 19:16

    Winston is a case of drafting a player AND hiring a babysitter to be at his right elbow 24/7.
    Dallas made that solution work with Dez Bryant.
    For all his football I.Q. and apparent brilliance as an academic engineering student - as is often the case with people with high academic intelligence - Winston is social awareness retarded.
    Genius comes in many forms, and not all people of above average intelligence have all versions of genius.

    On a personal level I am SO very aware of this, and perhaps many of you have picked up on the indications that HYATT™ suffers a similar malady as Winston.
    Academically I had no peers in school, in employment, or just in general wherever I was - but socially I was the equivalent of a Down's Syndrome child.
    I had no clue women found me attractive, but were put off by my social awkwardness - it took until I was almost 30 to figure that one out, even though there was a constant parade of model-caliber women spending time with me, coming and going at a rapid rate.

    I had no clue how to interact with normal folk around me, paring my verbiage down to what others considered to be normal usage instead of clinical "scientific-ese" - that took me until I was almost 30 to get working properly and had I not met the social genius of a wife I have, I might well STILL be talking like that in social settings.
    My mid-30s-something cousin doesn't have anyone comparable to my wife and she's so out of her element around normal folk she's turned into a near agoraphobic - which is a shame because she's also a hottie and nobody except me and her psychologist stepdad understand why she doesn't date.
    (It runs in the family, several of us are like this.)

    HYATT™ got really lucky. He found his social babysitter early on in life and still it took another decade to get squared away enough to move in social circles and no longer be perceived as completely "off". It never truly goes away, but at least I have some of the best possible engineering at my side every day to keep me mostly normal for the past 3 decades.

    Winston has my sympathy, I "get it" & because I "get it", I'm not as willing to forsake him as a lost cause as many are.
    I believe the possibility exists that, with proper minding by the team that drafts him, he CAN become more adept at traversing the pitfalls of a highly visible NFL franchise QB and all the attention it will bring - but the team that drafts him WILL have to commit to aiding and abetting his social awareness and development just as Jerry Jones did for Dez Bryant.
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    Re: Jameis Winston

    Post by Sarge on Tue 27 Jan 2015 - 19:30

    So wait, um, you are no longer perceived as completely off? Rolling Eyes

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