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    Charlie Casserly coming in?

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    cysporsche
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by cysporsche on Sat 27 Dec 2014 - 23:05

    football51 wrote:From Rich Cimini's espnnewyork.com chat.




    Keith Wolderich @serve1

    #jetsmail will the #Jets fire Bradway and the whole scouting team too? Didn't Idzik just revamp scouts and system?
    10:11 AM - 26 Dec 2014



    @RichCimini: Yes, Idzik changed some scouts, but not all. He also retained Terry Bradway, whose title is senior director of college scouting. Bradway has been around since 2001, first as the general manager and subsequently as a "super" scout. Bradway was instrumental in the scouting of Darrelle Revis, but that was 2007. This is hard to believe, but Revis is the last player drafted by the Jets to make the Pro Bowl -- a terrible drought. It's time for fresh blood in the scouting department. Here's what usually happens in situations like this: The new GM will keep the scouting staff together through the draft, simply because the scouts have invested several months in prep. Once the draft is over, the new GM will blow it up and hire his own people. I see that happening with the Jets.




    FYI, Jeff Bauer is in charge of our scouting department, not Bradway.

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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by SackExchange on Sat 27 Dec 2014 - 23:37

    GratefulJet wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:How many former Jets GMs land on their feet? Bradway never landed another GM job, whether he wanted one or not. Tannenbaum hasn't landed another GM job. OK, Parcells, as he served in that role with the Jets. But he had the Giants press backing.

    For the most part, whatever part of a Jets GM's reputation isn't destroyed by the fans, the press finish off.

    Blaming the fans and press for the fact they haven't gotten GM jobs elsewhere is pretty weak logically, even if it scratches an itch for you. Neither Bradway nor Tannenbaum demonstrated in their respective capacity as Jets GM that they were worthy of that role elsewhere. They weren't fired for doing fantastic jobs of building this team. So why would anyone else hire them? I think you're overplaying this negative obsession with the press and fan base. If these guys were really good at being GM, someone would have picked them up.
    OK, I'll admit that there are elements that can be explained without it being the fans or the press. Bradway did not wish to make the commitment to be GM any more. He wanted more time with his family.

    As for Tannenbaum, is there any reason he would not at least be a candidate for other teams? The Jets had at least moderate success under him.

    Believe it or not, other teams fire GMs, too. And often, those GMs find other GM jobs.

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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by Blindsidebrick on Sat 27 Dec 2014 - 23:46

    GratefulJet wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:How many former Jets GMs land on their feet? Bradway never landed another GM job, whether he wanted one or not. Tannenbaum hasn't landed another GM job. OK, Parcells, as he served in that role with the Jets. But he had the Giants press backing.

    For the most part, whatever part of a Jets GM's reputation isn't destroyed by the fans, the press finish off.

    Blaming the fans and press for the fact they haven't gotten GM jobs elsewhere is pretty weak logically, even if it scratches an itch for you. Neither Bradway nor Tannenbaum demonstrated in their respective capacity as Jets GM that they were worthy of that role elsewhere. They weren't fired for doing fantastic jobs of building this team. So why would anyone else hire them? I think you're overplaying this negative obsession with the press and fan base. If these guys were really good at being GM, someone would have picked them up.

    It's a good point about Tanny and Bradway. Neither was particularly good as GM, although I specifically remember many of our loyal fans bragging about what a genius Tannenbaum was during a 3 year stretch of Jets success under Edwards, only to completely jump ship the minute things went south. This isn't a defense or critique of Tanny. Just an observation.

    Sack's right, IMO, regarding the press and fans: it's all Heaven on Earth when the Jets are winning, but when the bottom falls out, it's always one of the following to scapegoat: the GM (Idzik 2014), the HC (Mangini 2008), or the OC (Schottenheimer 2010). It has nothing to do with crappy QB play or other personnel deficiencies. Blame the Chief, not the Indians.

    I argue that Geno Smith has more to do with 3-12 than John Idzik. But that doesn't call for heads at the top, so therefore it's an unpopular opinion among fans who instinctively go to the top to attribute blame.
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by GratefulJet on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 6:55

    I'm not disputing that there is a rabid horde of Jets fans out there. That's what makes this situation so tough to deal with. On the one hand, you don't want to give in to the pitchforks and torches crowd, on the other hand, you don't want to do the opposite of what they're demanding just for the sake of doing so, because in this case, what they're demanding is actually the correct path to follow. The team has gotten worse over the last two years, we've found only one impact player so far out of 20 draft picks, and the roster holes that were here when Idzik arrived are the same ones we have today. While some draft picks do take time to develop, nevertheless there are rookies and 2nd year players across the league starting and in some cases leading their teams. If Idzik had a dysfunctional situation to deal with due to the number of holdovers he was stuck with, then it's 100% on him for accepting that situation and not resolving it or insisting on the power to resolve it. Those who defend him seem to seize on every excuse and deflect blame in every direction except his. Sorry, but that's gotten way overdone around here. Stop making him out to be some poor little victim--he's the freakin' GM, fer chrissakes! He's got more power than anyone. He accepted the situation, now he has to live with the consequences of that decision, along with all the other decisions he's made.

    What I find most illogical is the argument that a GM requires 4-5 years, or some absolutely ridiculous amount of time, before you can judge his body of work. I dispute that notion out of hand. It's simply ludicrous to expect that kind of window, and in essence insist that whatever amount of regression, no matter how bad things get in the interim, Idzik can't be judged for 4-5 years. Horse hockey. Things do not have to get worse before they get better. I think anyone with 2 eyes and a little bit of football sense can see that the team has too little talent. We're not losing in spite of a loaded roster, guys--we're losing exactly because ours is barren of elite talent. We have a sideline full of JAGs, so much so that Percy Harvin instantly became the best playmaker--by far--on the team when he arrived. The CB debacle, letting Revis and Cromartie walk without a solid plan to replace either of them, was naive. This is a passing league. How can you expect to defend the pass without proven corners? Idzik penciled in Dimitri Patterson as the solution, and that blew up in his face. Has Idzik been unlucky? Sure, but the randomness of life will test the strength of any plan, and clearly Idzik's plan was not robust enough to handle the randomness of Patterson continuing to be an enigma, Milliner continuing to be injury prone, and a rookie who might have been a reach in the 3rd round suffering a season-ending training camp injury.

    Rhetorical question for the Idzik defenders: just how bad do things have to get before it's permissable to dismiss a GM after two years? Is there any level of awful? Or are you really ready to let a truly incompetent GM destroy the team unchecked for 4-5 years, to wreak havoc on the roster and coaching staff, because it's so unfair to judge poor little him after two short years?

    Has Rex been an accessory to this disaster? Yes, and his head will roll as well. He has been the constant through the Tannenbaum and Idzik administrations. The team plays stupid on Sundays--you are what you practice. They are never prepared for the opponent after the bye, and they don't adjust at halftime. They can't find the end zone when they're in the red zone. Their vaunted defense can't get off the field on 3rd and forever. The players love him to death, but it seems there are a group of people who are quite happy to say Rex is an idiot, the players who love him are idiots, the fans who obnoxiously expect better are idiots, Woody is an idiot, but Idzik is being turned into a pariah, everyone is crucifying the poor man, and he hasn't been given a fair chance to put this team on the path to long term success. I'm not buying one bit of it. He's made things plenty worse in two years. That is abundantly clear.

    Is Woody a bad owner? I don't think so. He is a fan and he owns the team. When has he ever denied a GM anything? Idzik has left a ton of cap room on the table. Well, cap space doesn't suit up on Sundays. Now, the Wilpons--they are bad owners. You can't even compare Woody to the likes of them.

    As a Jets fan of almost 50 years, I am looking forward to this thing getting blown up on Black Monday. Start over, top to bottom. Let's find some smart guys and see what they can do. I am done with Bradway, Rex, Idzik, the lot of them. They're all nice guys, good guys, the kind you want as neighbors, as friends. But friendship is one thing, business another. They haven't taken care of business. Everyone in life who has had some success usually at some point rises to a level beyond their scope and gets exposed as unprepared or insufficiently talented to handle that role. It's happened to me. You go down in flames and start all over. You learn from your mistakes and begin the climb again. I've done it, these guys can too. You can't paper over their collective failure. It is what it is. Time to move on.

    Go Dolphins.

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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by Blindsidebrick on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 10:24

    Gratefuljet, that was a well written post. I don't agree with all of it, but we're not as far off in looking at this as previously thought. Thanks for stating your point respectfully.
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 12:04

    As per Cimini:

    "Ron Wolf is joining the Jets as a consultant in the likely event that the team is searching for a new coach and/or GM, a league source said."

    There you have it folks, it will definitely be Casserley and Wolf heading the search for a new GM.  To steer this franchise in the right direction.  
    As much as I like Rex, let's all be honest. Was it really Idzik's fault that caused Ryan's fate?  IMHO don't think so.

    In the subsequent years following the 2 AFCCG's, teams that had the "core Mangini" disciplined players, things started to turn towards what really made Rex what he truly was: A below average coach with a loud bark.

    2011- 2013 he had corners yet he didn't take them to the playoffs.  Now 2014, it was due to lack of talent?! Mad  He had the same QB in 2011 & 2012 that took him to 2 AFCCG's but again failed to reach the playoffs.  2013 & 2014 with Geno Smith at the helm sealed his fate due to one of his most severe backlashing trait: Loyal stubbornness. Not willing to Pull Geno earlier to salvage the season.  Not saying that Vick would have made the Jets playoff contenders but atleast he would have made them a tad competitive at the QB position early on.

    It's time folks for Woody to surround himself with super bowl champion personnel people and begin to build the "RIGHT WAY".
    I liked Idzik and honestly feel he got the shaft too quickly. Though his fate was very much sealed with the inept play at the QB position in Geno Smith and the 12 draft pick debacle this past May.

    The team went from one extreme to the next with Tannenbaum & Idzik.  Tanny spent like a wild whore while Idzik saved money like Scrooge McDuck (sorry folks too early). It's about time Woody heeds wise counsel from FOOTBALL people who know what is the next step to make this organization prideful again.

    Casserley & Wolf will evaluate and assess every possibility to get the right guy.  Especially that we have a top 5 draft pick coming up and '15 & almost $50million under the cap, ironically built up by the guy who will be getting the axe as early as tonight.
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by SackExchange on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 14:27

    Blindsidebrick wrote:Gratefuljet, that was a well written post. I don't agree with all of it, but we're not as far off in looking at this as previously thought. Thanks for stating your point respectfully.
    It was an outstanding post.

    I'm not sure there are as many Idzik defenders, or as staunch Idzik defenders, as indicated. I am on the fence, as I do think two years is too short. Idzik has made plenty of bad choices worth being bashed. His draft record is spotty (though I'd argue comparable to a lot of other GM). He didn't do nearly enough this offseason to solidify the secondary. But many Jets fans and the tabloids don't really believe in continuity or patience.

    The Steelers have five titles, and have had three head coaches in the past 40-some years. There is something to be said about continuity.

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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by Blindsidebrick on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 14:40

    SackExchange wrote:
    Blindsidebrick wrote:Gratefuljet, that was a well written post. I don't agree with all of it, but we're not as far off in looking at this as previously thought. Thanks for stating your point respectfully.
    It was an outstanding post.

    I'm not sure there are as many Idzik defenders, or as staunch Idzik defenders, as indicated. I am on the fence, as I do think two years is too short. But the Jets don't really believe in continuity or patience.

    The Steelers have five titles, and have had three head coaches in the past 40-some years. There is something to be said about continuity.

    At some point in this discussion, my defense of Idzik has been interpreted to mean I'm not blaming him for anything. To the contrary, I've acknowledged his mistakes in the draft. But I don't believe he's been as accountable to this mess as others seem to think. That's all. I see more fault in the coaches and QB.

    It doesn't need to be a nasty back and forth of name calling and getting our feelings hurt over it. Thankfully, most posters here are adults. Or at least, respond like adults.
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by football51 on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 16:09

    Blindsidebrick wrote:Gratefuljet, that was a well written post. I don't agree with all of it, but we're not as far off in looking at this as previously thought. Thanks for stating your point respectfully.





    Cheers Me too. Very well said Gratefuljet, and that is exactly how you make a passionate point without being disrespectful.
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by football51 on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 16:29


    Bob GlauberVerified account

    Woody Johnson after Jets' 37-24 win over Dolphins: "Today is all about players." Refuses to comment further. Rushes out of stadium.






















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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by NickSINYC on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 16:33

    football51 wrote:
    Bob GlauberVerified account

    Woody Johnson after Jets' 37-24 win over Dolphins: "Today is all about players." Refuses to comment further. Rushes out of stadium.

    I wish I had more faith in Woody doing the right thing and firing Rex. I will have a lump in my stomach until I hear he is history.

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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by soj on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 16:41

    GratefulJet wrote:I'm not disputing that there is a rabid horde of Jets fans out there. That's what makes this situation so tough to deal with. On the one hand, you don't want to give in to the pitchforks and torches crowd, on the other hand, you don't want to do the opposite of what they're demanding just for the sake of doing so, because in this case, what they're demanding is actually the correct path to follow. The team has gotten worse over the last two years, we've found only one impact player so far out of 20 draft picks, and the roster holes that were here when Idzik arrived are the same ones we have today. While some draft picks do take time to develop, nevertheless there are rookies and 2nd year players across the league starting and in some cases leading their teams. If Idzik had a dysfunctional situation to deal with due to the number of holdovers he was stuck with, then it's 100% on him for accepting that situation and not resolving it or insisting on the power to resolve it. Those who defend him seem to seize on every excuse and deflect blame in every direction except his. Sorry, but that's gotten way overdone around here. Stop making him out to be some poor little victim--he's the freakin' GM, fer chrissakes! He's got more power than anyone. He accepted the situation, now he has to live with the consequences of that decision, along with all the other decisions he's made.

    What I find most illogical is the argument that a GM requires 4-5 years, or some absolutely ridiculous amount of time, before you can judge his body of work. I dispute that notion out of hand. It's simply ludicrous to expect that kind of window, and in essence insist that whatever amount of regression, no matter how bad things get in the interim, Idzik can't be judged for 4-5 years. Horse hockey. Things do not have to get worse before they get better. I think anyone with 2 eyes and a little bit of football sense can see that the team has too little talent. We're not losing in spite of a loaded roster, guys--we're losing exactly because ours is barren of elite talent. We have a sideline full of JAGs, so much so that Percy Harvin instantly became the best playmaker--by far--on the team when he arrived. The CB debacle, letting Revis and Cromartie walk without a solid plan to replace either of them, was naive. This is a passing league. How can you expect to defend the pass without proven corners? Idzik penciled in Dimitri Patterson as the solution, and that blew up in his face. Has Idzik been unlucky? Sure, but the randomness of life will test the strength of any plan, and clearly Idzik's plan was not robust enough to handle the randomness of Patterson continuing to be an enigma, Milliner continuing to be injury prone, and a rookie who might have been a reach in the 3rd round suffering a season-ending training camp injury.

    Rhetorical question for the Idzik defenders: just how bad do things have to get before it's permissable to dismiss a GM after two years? Is there any level of awful? Or are you really ready to let a truly incompetent GM destroy the team unchecked for 4-5 years, to wreak havoc on the roster and coaching staff, because it's so unfair to judge poor little him after two short years?

    Has Rex been an accessory to this disaster? Yes, and his head will roll as well. He has been the constant through the Tannenbaum and Idzik administrations. The team plays stupid on Sundays--you are what you practice. They are never prepared for the opponent after the bye, and they don't adjust at halftime. They can't find the end zone when they're in the red zone. Their vaunted defense can't get off the field on 3rd and forever. The players love him to death, but it seems there are a group of people who are quite happy to say Rex is an idiot, the players who love him are idiots, the fans who obnoxiously expect better are idiots, Woody is an idiot, but Idzik is being turned into a pariah, everyone is crucifying the poor man, and he hasn't been given a fair chance to put this team on the path to long term success. I'm not buying one bit of it. He's made things plenty worse in two years. That is abundantly clear.

    Is Woody a bad owner? I don't think so. He is a fan and he owns the team. When has he ever denied a GM anything? Idzik has left a ton of cap room on the table. Well, cap space doesn't suit up on Sundays. Now, the Wilpons--they are bad owners. You can't even compare Woody to the likes of them.

    As a Jets fan of almost 50 years, I am looking forward to this thing getting blown up on Black Monday. Start over, top to bottom. Let's find some smart guys and see what they can do. I am done with Bradway, Rex, Idzik, the lot of them. They're all nice guys, good guys, the kind you want as neighbors, as friends. But friendship is one thing, business another. They haven't taken care of business. Everyone in life who has had some success usually at some point rises to a level beyond their scope and gets exposed as unprepared or insufficiently talented to handle that role. It's happened to me. You go down in flames and start all over. You learn from your mistakes and begin the climb again. I've done it, these guys can too. You can't paper over their collective failure. It is what it is. Time to move on.

    Go Dolphins.


    Like you I been around a long time... I have seen enough and want a complete overhaul ...it necessary and the correct thing to do.

    Well said... and thanks for sharing.
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by GratefulJet on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 17:26

    Thanks everyone. We all want the same thing here--a team worth rooting for. We've suffered as much as any fanbase, and if there are a few fans going a little psycho out there, well, I can kind of understand where they're coming from, even if I would never participate in something like that Fire John Idzik campaign.

    It will be really interesting to see how events unfold tomorrow. There are a lot of moving pieces here. I could see them firing Idzik and offering Rex a chance to stay with the team in a DC/Asst HC capacity under a GM-HC guy (someone with Belichek-level powers), but it would seem Harbaugh is the only guy on the scene with that level of juice and he's headed to Ann Arbor. Unless they bring a guy like Holmgren out of retirement, or possibly Billick or maybe even Cowher, since all three of those guys have been out of the game for awhile and could use an experienced right hand man or two, they otherwise look to go with a younger, up-and-coming guy, which really is what they did with Idzik, so who knows?

    Woody is the wild card, since we don't know much about his state of mind other than he's obviously very frustrated. We do know he loves Rex, and we have heard that he's really down on Idzik, and we also know he is sensitive to the feelings of the fanbase. To me, that sets up a situation where Idzik is fired as soon as tonight but tomorrow for sure. As for Rex, anything is possible. I don't want him back as HC, but could stomach a situation where he is the DC. If his realistic options beyond the Jets are TV analyst or DC for another team, why not come back to the Jets as DC? I could see it. Would be interesting, but would require someone with the gravitas and perspective to not feel threatened by Rex's presence. Not sure who that someone is.
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by NickSINYC on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 18:24

    I can easily see Woody screwing up things tomorrow and setting up his still unnamed GM for a rougher start than need be. I can see him firing Idzik leaving Rex in place. Convincing himself he is leaving it up to the new GM to decide his fate not realizing the extra pressure that puts on the new GM having to fire someone he knows the owner likes and wants. I hope he would not let that affect his decision. So much easier and cleaner if Woody steps up and cleans house himself 1st.
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 18:56

    Rex IMHO would never be ok with the demotion of a DC position here. The locker room would be instantaneously divided as it was with his father in Chicago vs Ditka as head coach.

    Plus I feel Rex is too prideful to accept that.

    As far as Woody stepping up. This is where I see Wolf & Casserley giving him very wise counsel.
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by NickSINYC on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 19:08

    This is where all those pre Idzik leaks would come in handy. It would be nice to know how things were going to pan out tomorrow now.
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 19:10

    NickSINYC wrote:This is where all those pre Idzik leaks would come in handy. It would be nice to know how things were going to pan out tomorrow now.

    Leave it up to Manish, he'll get something out there, true or not.

    Though in all honesty, the way Pace was talking after the game and Purdum tweeting, its all signs pointing to rex and the team knowing his time is up.
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by SackExchange on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 21:23

    I don't think you could keep Rex as DC or assistant head coach. It would undermine both his authority and his replacement's.
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by GratefulJet on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 21:50

    SackExchange wrote:I don't think you could keep Rex as DC or assistant head coach. It would undermine both his authority and his replacement's.

    Yeah, most likely. It would take a pretty unusual person who could accept that and not be threatened by it.
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by Sarge on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 22:05

    Rex has a decent to good chance at 4 head coach jobs - Bears, Falcons, 49ers, Raiders

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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by cysporsche on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 22:39

    Rex said earlier today, that if he's not a HC somewhere, he will be in the TV booth.

    Very tough for anybody to accept a demotion in any line of work or coaching.

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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by SackExchange on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 22:40

    Falcons seem like the best fit. Second might be the Bears.

    I have pointed out Rex's flaws here. My concern is, is there an upgrade out there?

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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by LIJETFAN on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 23:57

    Mortenson is reporting that Rex and Idzik will both go tomorrow. I think that is absolutely the right move. I think Bradway and Graves need to go with them. I know that it will take some time to rebuild the scouting department, but you can't have lame duck personnel scouting next year's draft and players. A new GM can bring people in very quickly. And if they are good scouting people, they have already started their prep workf or next year's draft.
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by SackExchange on Sun 28 Dec 2014 - 23:59

    LI, would you like that in the new thread I started about the firings?
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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

    Post by NCgreen12 on Mon 29 Dec 2014 - 11:55

    Heard some names being thrown around for our GM candidate on NFL channel which Woody said today will be a football personnel guy.

    Ryan Pace - NO Saints
    Trent Kirshner - Seattle (doubt he goes there again)
    Will Mcclay - Dallas (my favorite because he knows the value the offensive line plays in success)
    George Payton - Minn
    Morocco Brown - Cleveland
    Chris Ballard - Chiefs
    Mike Maccagnan - Houston (Charlie Casserly has ties to Houston)


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    Re: Charlie Casserly coming in?

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      Current date/time is Sun 20 Aug 2017 - 11:37