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    Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

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    Old#15
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by Old#15 on Mon 1 Dec 2014 - 8:56

    I would love to be a fly on the wall in 49ers front office to get some understanding of how a coach that successful has so thoroughly worn out his welcome there.

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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by hobson54 on Mon 1 Dec 2014 - 9:22

    GratefulJet wrote:According to a twitter link on this page, Hoke will be returning to Ann Arbor in 2015:

    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets

    One less place Harbaugh RT @easye_shonuff: According to sources, Brady Hoke to return as Michigan's head football coach next season.

    not sure of the "sources" but this is very unlikely. all indications on the michigan board are hoke is out and harbaugh is still in play in AA. basically it will come down to whether he wants to revive his alma mater and lead them back to the top of college football or pursue winning a super bowl.

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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by hobson54 on Mon 1 Dec 2014 - 9:32

    GratefulJet wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    Harbough gets full power, a 2nd and some mids, and if someone wants to give up a first rd pick for Harbough, they can have him and we go another direction.  I prefer Harbough, but I'm not giving up a top 5 pick for him...even if the idiots keep making the picks...there's a sun shining on a dog's ass analogy that would be appropriate to insert here for Bradway and Idzik...

    That's more or less how I see it. What's the point of getting a great cook and forcing him to make dinner with an empty cupboard?

    Anyone know what contractual rights Harbaugh has in terms of blocking a trade? I suppose Jason at OverTheCap.com will address the Harbaugh rumors at some point, but until then it would nice to know how much this topic is just a beat writer or two exercising their imaginations.



    well i would assume that any team "trading" for harbaugh will have already discussed the parameters of a new contract and worked out the front office arrangements (i.e. will JH be the GM, get to name his preferred GM, etc...). so i doubt a team that hasn't already come to an agreement with JH will trade for him.

    personally i am torn. as a rule, i don't like the idea of a head coach also being the GM. it rarely works. and while harbaugh is a great coach, it's not like he's won a super bowl or done the drafting for the niners. but i also think that he's probably the best coach we can find, and a good direction to go after rex (offensive-minded coach who is not gonna be soft on his players).

    then there is the personal internal conflict. as much as i want to see the jets win a super bowl (and it is the top sports wish of mine considering all my professional and collegiate allegiances), i think my beloved alma mater NEEDS him more. now he doesn't guarantee a national championship (or a super bowl for that matter), but he is the one person who can fix the dysfunction in ann arbor and right the football program. while he also may be the best candidate for the jets, i think there are other routes we can go, especially given my strong preference to not have a coach/GM.

    so if he heads to ann arbor, i'm very happy. if he becomes the next coach (and GM?) of the jets, i'm happy, so long as we don't give up too much to get him.



    which of course means he winds up in chicago...or miami... No
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by GratefulJet on Mon 1 Dec 2014 - 10:02

    hobson54 wrote:
    GratefulJet wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    Harbough gets full power, a 2nd and some mids, and if someone wants to give up a first rd pick for Harbough, they can have him and we go another direction.  I prefer Harbough, but I'm not giving up a top 5 pick for him...even if the idiots keep making the picks...there's a sun shining on a dog's ass analogy that would be appropriate to insert here for Bradway and Idzik...

    That's more or less how I see it. What's the point of getting a great cook and forcing him to make dinner with an empty cupboard?

    Anyone know what contractual rights Harbaugh has in terms of blocking a trade? I suppose Jason at OverTheCap.com will address the Harbaugh rumors at some point, but until then it would nice to know how much this topic is just a beat writer or two exercising their imaginations.



    well i would assume that any team "trading" for harbaugh will have already discussed the parameters of a new contract and worked out the front office arrangements (i.e. will JH be the GM, get to name his preferred GM, etc...).  so i doubt a team that hasn't already come to an agreement with JH will trade for him.

    personally i am torn.  as a rule, i don't like the idea of a head coach also being the GM.  it rarely works.    and while harbaugh is a great coach, it's not like he's won a super bowl or done the drafting for the niners.  but i also think that he's probably the best coach we can find, and a good direction to go after rex (offensive-minded coach who is not gonna be soft on his players).

    then there is the personal internal conflict.  as much as i want to see the jets win a super bowl (and it is the top sports wish of mine considering all my professional and collegiate allegiances), i think my beloved alma mater NEEDS him more.  now he doesn't guarantee a national championship (or a super bowl for that matter), but he is the one person who can fix the dysfunction in ann arbor and right the football program.  while he also may be the best candidate for the jets, i think there are other routes we can go, especially given my strong preference to not have a coach/GM.  

    so if he heads to ann arbor, i'm very happy.  if he becomes the next coach (and GM?) of the jets, i'm happy, so long as we don't give up too much to get him.



    which of course means he winds up in chicago...or miami... No

    In terms of blocking a trade, I only meant from the standpoint that he would have some say in his destination. As Nick pointed out, the rights to coaches under contract can't be traded the same way the rights to players under contract can be.


    I'm not sure I want to trade for a coach when the terms of the deal beggars our inventory of talent, nor am I even sure I want a coach who is willing to see a king's ransom in draft picks fly out the door in exchange for his services.

    I guess we don't have to worry about Harbaugh going to Ohio State or New England. From that standpoint, whatever the final outcome, it could always be worse...
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by SackExchange on Mon 1 Dec 2014 - 10:16

    GratefulJet wrote:As much as I would love to see Jim Harbaugh become the HC of the NYJ (and GM, if he insisted on it), we have to bear in mind he is under contract to the 49ers for another year, and therefore there might well be the matter of trade compensation. I wonder if folks would still be gung ho for him if it meant giving up our 2015 1st round pick? I know I would have serious reservations about that sort of price tag, given it could be a top 3 pick.
    I could not see any coach meriting a high first as compensation.

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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by hobson54 on Mon 1 Dec 2014 - 10:18

    an interesting read:


    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/The-absurdity-of-the-Jim-Harbaugh-trade-talk.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter





    NFP»Columns»The Director's Report
    Greg Gabriel breaks down the possibility, or lack thereof. Greg Gabriel


    Yesterday, it was reported during the ESPN pregame shows that San Francisco could possibly extend or even trade Jim Harbaugh in the near future. When I first heard the report, my initial reaction was laughter.

    Let’s take this report from the top and examine it. ESPN’s Adam Schefter came out with the report and we all know that Schefter is one of the more credible people in the business when it comes to getting inside information. Schefter has also been known to “float” information for front office types just so the people he is floating the info for can get a possible read on the idea. In this case, I feel this is exactly what happened.

    Unless you have been in a deep sleep for the last year, you know there is a huge disconnect in San Francisco between Harbaugh and the front office. This “marriage” isn’t going to work, and there is a divorce coming. The question isn’t if, it’s when. The people in San Francisco are having Schefter float the idea to see if there are any takers, perhaps with the hope of setting up some sort of bidding war. The problem with that idea, is the San Francisco people have to be pretty arrogant to think that some other club would be so stupid to “trade” for a coach who will soon become a ‘free agent”.

    Yesterday on twitter, I posed that thought, and I got responses like, “Well then the team knows they can get Harbaugh to be their coach”. Well part of that answer is true, when you look at it closely, the idea is absolutely absurd.

    If reports are correct, Harbaugh has one year left on his current contract. Sure, the 49ers could trade that contract to another team, but the only thing the other team has is Harbaugh for one year. If Harbaugh didn’t like the team he was traded to, he could coach them for a year and then bolt to a place that he feels is a better situation.

    Trading for a coach is not like trading for a player. Why do you think that clubs go through an interview process to find the right guy? Don’t be mistaken, just as the club is interviewing the coaching candidate, so is the candidate interviewing the club. There has to be a proper fit. The team has to buy into the coach’s philosophy and the coach has to buy into the team's. The prospective coach, team owner, and general manager have to be on the same page. In the coach's contract, there are clauses written into it that state what control he has. Does he have final say over the 53 man roster, final say in the draft, final say in trade and waiver acquisitions? That’s just a few of the items. There are many more including pay. In a trade, none of those questions even gets talked about. While a team may want a certain coach, there is no guarantee that the coach wants that team.

    I don’t know what Harbaugh has written into his current contract, but I’ve been told he doesn’t have control over the 53-man roster or the draft. I also have been told that, in a future contract, he wants that control. If he were traded he still wouldn’t have that power. You can say that he can get a new contract with that power in it. That is true, but what if the clubs current GM already has that power and doesn’t want to give it up?

    You could also say that the 49ers could extend Harbaugh’s contract only to trade him. My answer is, why would Harbaugh agree to an extension of a contract that he already doesn’t like? It makes no sense. By rule, the 49ers can’t put certain things in the contract that their current GM already has. Two people can’t have the same power, so an extension can’t be done before a trade.

    The bottom line is the media can write all they want about a trade, but it’s not going to happen. The fact that Schefter floated the idea tells me that there is no way Harbaugh will be back In San Francisco. Harbaugh can just sit back and wait to be fired, then he can pick where he wants to work, be it the NFL or College. He, then, can also negotiate what clauses are in his contract. That wouldn’t happen in a trade.

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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by LIJETFAN on Mon 1 Dec 2014 - 14:26

    I can't imagine the Jets wanting to sign Harbaugh for a one-year rental.  Nor he would want to uproot his family for that.  In fact, I highly doubt he would be interested in the job unless the money was just too good to pass up.  So the Jets would have to do a sign and trade deal, where they sign him to a long-term deal and then commit to the trade.  

    That said, I don't see the Jets wanting to trade their top 5 pick for Harbaugh, or even a series of high round draft picks.  He's a very good coach, and probably just what this team needs, but the Jets needs draft picks just as badly.  Harbaugh would be foolish to come here without having high draft picks to build a roster.  

    I read an article today that mentioned the usual suspects for the Giants too - Harbaugh, Cowher, Gase, etc.  So there will definitely be competition in the market for a top coach.  Because of all the dysfunction in the Jets organization, they are going to have to be extremely aggressive and outbid everyone else.  And, they are going to need to consider giving a high profile coach a dual GM spot.
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by Seaver on Mon 1 Dec 2014 - 14:48

    there is absolutely no way Harbaugh or any NFL coach gets traded w/o full cooperation of the coach himself. Harbaugh would have to be given a window to negotiate an extension before a trade is complete - happens that way in baseball when a player has veto power. You don't build trust trying to drag a HC into your building.......either he comes willingly or he doesn't at all....

    I simply don't see Harbaugh as an East coast guy.....nor his family. I also don't see him deserving of GM control unless his 'guy' is really good with personnel. He simply can't bring a contract guy.

    Quite frankly I see at best a 10% chance he ends up in green/white....and even that is an incomplete grade because we need to see how the GM job shakes out on Black Monday. If Idzik stays, I say it goes to 0%.

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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by AFA2017 on Mon 1 Dec 2014 - 18:13

    I remember reading on the old site about Rex Ryan, "If there is one Coach who can get us to the Superbowl its Rex Ryan". "Rex is a defensive Genius"! "Open up the checkbook for Rex"! There is another poster on the old site swearing that Herm Edwards and Mangini were great NY Jet Coaches and left Rex a Champioship caliber team. Now you have Harbaugh out there and you want to give a #1 to the 49ers for him and open up the checkbook too.I just don't see it!
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by NickSINYC on Mon 1 Dec 2014 - 18:51

    AFA2017 wrote:I remember reading on the old site about Rex Ryan, "If there is one Coach who can get us to the Superbowl its Rex Ryan". "Rex is a defensive Genius"! "Open up the checkbook for Rex"! There is another poster on the old site swearing that Herm Edwards and Mangini were great NY Jet Coaches and left Rex a Champioship caliber team. Now you have Harbaugh out there and you want to give a #1 to the 49ers for him and open up the checkbook too.I just don't see it!
    My take. Do I think Mangini and Edwards were great coaches? No. I do think Rex was left a top notch team when he took over. Rex was a very good DC and should have stayed one. He has no clue about the intricacies of being a HC. 

    As far as Harbaugh. I think he is just what this team needs and would be a perfect fit. Would I give up a 1st round pick for him. Yes I would. I think a good HC is worth that level of compensation. My problem is how high we will pick next draft and our need for a QB the only position that effects a game as much as a HC so I would not offer our 2015 1st round pick. I would offer some lower 2015 picks and also our 2016 1st round pick.

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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by AFA2017 on Tue 2 Dec 2014 - 5:53

    Well I agree with you on Rex being a good DC and has no clue about being a HC. I don't agree with you about giving up a #1 pick for Harbaugh. Harbaugh like Rex did not build the 49ers into being a top notch team. He inherited a darn good team when Singletary was canned. A few more players were added to the team. Harbaugh surely is a better HC then Ryan, but there are many coaches out there who are better HC's then Ryan. Shanahan for one is out there. Whether he wants to coach is another thing. If you watched the buffalo game, the Jets seemed fat, out of shape and quit on Rex just like in the Kotite era. I do understand your point in bringing in a true HC who knows how to develop QB's. I just don't want to give up a high draft pick. Even though the Jets Organization has no clue that draft picks 2 - 7 are to be useful to the team and not a guessing game.

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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by Blindsidebrick on Tue 2 Dec 2014 - 11:20

    [quote="AFA2017"]I remember reading on the old site about Rex Ryan, "If there is one Coach who can get us to the Superbowl its Rex Ryan". "Rex is a defensive Genius"! "Open up the checkbook for Rex"! There is another poster on the old site swearing that Herm Edwards and Mangini were great NY Jet Coaches and left Rex a Champioship caliber team. Now you have Harbaugh out there and you want to give a #1 to the 49ers for him and open up the checkbook too.I just don't see it![/quo

    Everyone looks sexy, until they don't anymore. No way in hell I'd give up our first round pick (and probably more) for Harbaugh. I wouldn't give up a first round pick for ANY coach.
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by Superman55 on Tue 2 Dec 2014 - 14:22

    Blindsidebrick wrote:
    AFA2017 wrote:I remember reading on the old site about Rex Ryan, "If there is one Coach who can get us to the Superbowl its Rex Ryan". "Rex is a defensive Genius"! "Open up the checkbook for Rex"! There is another poster on the old site swearing that Herm Edwards and Mangini were great NY Jet Coaches and left Rex a Champioship caliber team. Now you have Harbaugh out there and you want to give a #1 to the 49ers for him and open up the checkbook too.I just don't see it![/quo

    Everyone looks sexy, until they don't anymore. No way in hell I'd give up our first round pick (and probably more) for Harbaugh.  I wouldn't give up a first round pick for ANY coach.

    agreed

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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by LIJETFAN on Tue 2 Dec 2014 - 14:22

    Have to agree. I like Harbaugh as a coach. But I don't believe giving up a top pick is worth it. I think the Jets should explore every option, but not mortgage the future to do it. Besides, like I said, I am not even sure Harbaugh would want to come here. I have serious doubts. He is a WC guy.
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by Superman55 on Tue 2 Dec 2014 - 14:33

    LIJETFAN wrote:Have to agree.  I like Harbaugh as a coach.  But I don't believe giving up a top pick is worth it.  I think the Jets should explore every option, but not mortgage the future to do it.  Besides, like I said, I am not even sure Harbaugh would want to come here.  I have serious doubts.  He is a WC guy.  

    If Chicago and Michigan is the WC... Wink
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by Superman55 on Tue 2 Dec 2014 - 14:34

    Why Harbaugh to Bears won't work
    December, 2, 2014
    DEC 2
    10:18
    AM ET
    By Tom Carpenter | ESPN Insider
    00COMMENTS0EMAILPRINT
    Since the San Francisco 49ers' playoff hopes are dwindling, all signs continue to point toward the team moving on from coach Jim Harbaugh at season's end. The Oakland Raiders and New York Jets have been connected with Harbaugh and there remains a chance he could return to the University of Michigan, if Brady Hoke is fired (as is expected).

    Although we haven't seen any hard rumors connecting Harbaugh to the Chicago Bears, some people think he could be lured back to the team for which he once played, if current coach Mark Trestman is let go. However, such a move would go against what the Bears owners have done in the past.

    "Everyone knows there is no way the McCaskeys would eat the rest of [GM Phil] Emery’s and Trestman’s contracts, pay off the salaries of the assistant coaches, perhaps trade a draft pick to get Harbaugh and then spend $7 million a year to lure one of the hottest coaching prospects in the NFL," wrote Rick Morressey of the Sun-Times. "Are you crazy? All that money? The McCaskeys? No."

    Furthermore, it would be a shocker if Harbaugh pushed his way into the job, since he admires Trestman. Harbaugh's first coaching gig was with the Raiders, and he worked directly under Trestman, who was the offensive coordinator. Harbaugh said in 2013 that Trestman “taught me everything."
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by football51 on Tue 2 Dec 2014 - 14:50

    Concerning the "control" issue, I believe it would be similar to Seattle and KC. Carroll and Reid have final say on all football matters, but the Seahawks still hired Scneider as gm and the Chiefs hired Dorsey. Both Carroll and Reid handpicked their gm's. Obviously, if Harbaugh came here, Idzik would be out and Harbaugh would choose his personnel guy(Gamble?).



    With the rookie wage scale, first round picks are more valuable than ever. No one is looking to "unload" high first round picks. I wouldn't give up a first for any coach(at least not where we'll be picking).



    I've read multiple articles where it said that harbaugh has turned down numerous contract extension offers from the 49er's(presumably because he wants total control). Why would they be trying to extend him if the players hate him. I'm starting to wonder if that's reality or a planted story. I believe the issues between the GM and Harbaugh over power.

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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by hobson54 on Tue 2 Dec 2014 - 15:19

    hobson54 wrote:
    GratefulJet wrote:According to a twitter link on this page, Hoke will be returning to Ann Arbor in 2015:

    Joe Caporoso @TurnOnTheJets

    One less place Harbaugh RT @easye_shonuff: According to sources, Brady Hoke to return as Michigan's head football coach next season.

    not sure of the "sources" but this is very unlikely.  all indications on the michigan board are hoke is out and harbaugh is still in play in AA.  basically it will come down to whether he wants to revive his alma mater and lead them back to the top of college football or pursue winning a super bowl.


    as a follow up, there is officially a vacancy in ann arbor for a head football coach
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by Superman55 on Tue 2 Dec 2014 - 15:20

    football51 wrote:Concerning the "control" issue, I believe it would be similar to Seattle and KC. Carroll and Reid have final say on all football matters, but the Seahawks still hired Scneider as gm and the Chiefs hired Dorsey. Both Carroll and Reid handpicked their gm's. Obviously, if Harbaugh came here, Idzik would be out and Harbaugh would choose his personnel guy(Gamble?).



    With the rookie wage scale, first round picks are more valuable than ever. No one is looking to "unload" high first round picks. I wouldn't give up a first for any coach(at least not where we'll be picking).



    I've read multiple articles where it said that harbaugh has turned down numerous contract extension offers from the 49er's(presumably because he wants total control). Why would they be trying to extend him if the players hate him. I'm starting to wonder if that's reality or a planted story. I believe the issues between the GM and Harbaugh over power.

    100% agreed. If he becomes available, he'll be the hottest coaching candidate on the market, everyone's #1 choice.

    Hell, coaches (Philbin) will get fired just because he's available...

    I dont think any team is concerned with bringing in a Harbough right now.
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by football51 on Sat 13 Dec 2014 - 15:52

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/sunday-morning-qb-advice-jets-jim-harbaugh-article-1.2044111
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Sat 13 Dec 2014 - 16:03

    football51 wrote:http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/sunday-morning-qb-advice-jets-jim-harbaugh-article-1.2044111


    gotta love the always senile Gary meyers:

    "There were reports earlier this year that he’d lost the locker room. But he’s a great coach."

    i could foresee the media using this line against the jets if they were to ever hire jim.
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by Superman55 on Sat 13 Dec 2014 - 19:42

    Harbaugh, Carroll regard each other as studs

    Posted by Mike Florio on December 13, 2014, 8:59 AM EST
    Harbaugh
    AP
    Five years ago, the message between them was, “What’s your deal?” Now, as they face the end of a twice-per-year rivalry, Pete Carroll and Jim Harbaugh have a different message for each other.

    The Seahawks coach and the 49ers coach regard each other with a specific four-letter term of endearment and/or virility.

    Earlier this week, Carroll called Harbaugh a stud. Informed of that during a Friday press conference, Harbaugh was amused.

    “Did he?” Harbaugh said. “I feel the same way about him.”

    So Carroll is a stud?

    “Yeah.”

    “He’s a great competitor,” Harbaugh added. “He’s a great football coach. Been in a lot of big games. Very much look forward to playing against their team because they’re such a good football team. Always well prepared. At the highest level every time you play against them.”

    Barring a highly unlikely rematch in the playoffs, this most likely will be the last time Harbaugh and Carroll get together unless and until they cross paths with Harbaugh as the coach of a new NFL team. If he ends up with the Raiders, it won’t happen for four more years — barring an encounter for then in the Super Bowl.

    (Quit laughing; the Raiders could make it before then.)

    For now, the immediate question is whether the Seahawks will deliver the proverbial death blow to San Francisco’s playoff chances by winning at home against the team the Seahawks beat 19-3 last month in Santa Clara. From Harbaugh’s perspective, the goal will be to challenge every player in the locker room, appeal to their most basic sense of pride and competition.

    And if that doesn’t work, maybe they really have tuned him out.
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Sun 14 Dec 2014 - 9:42

    add another team to the jh sweepstakes

    http://nfltraderumors.co/dolphins-expected-to-make-a-run-at-jim-harbaugh-if-they-miss-the-playoffs/
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by Superman55 on Sun 14 Dec 2014 - 10:27

    NYJETSDAN16 wrote:add another team to the jh sweepstakes  

    http://nfltraderumors.co/dolphins-expected-to-make-a-run-at-jim-harbaugh-if-they-miss-the-playoffs/

    It's looking like two straight bad Decembers to miss the playoffs so wouldn't surprise me. Truth is, Tannehill is Jay Fiedler good, he's alright, but not good enough and nothing special overall. Harbough won't stick with him for long, IMO.
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    NYJETSDAN16
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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

    Post by NYJETSDAN16 on Sun 14 Dec 2014 - 20:17

    Harbaugh's 49ers have just been eliminated from playoff contention.

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    Re: Reports: Raiders and Jets to be after Jim Harbough

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