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    Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

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    Superman55
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    Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 6:56

    Wow.

    http://nypost.com/2014/11/06/pressure-builds-for-woody-to-act/


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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by Old#15 on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 7:15

    Superman55 wrote:Wow.

    http://nypost.com/2014/11/06/pressure-builds-for-woody-to-act/


    If that happens and Ryan stays, I'm finding something else to do Sundays.
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by Sarge on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 9:34

    I'm skeptical of that report, but t be team is 1-8 and in the NFL 1-8 gets you firec
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by Superman55 on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 10:04

    Sarge wrote:I'm skeptical of that report, but t be team is 1-8 and in the NFL 1-8 gets you firec

    I do think it is an interesting comparison in Mangini.

    I was kind of "eh" on Mangini staying or going...and that's how I feel about Idzik.

    Mangini had "a plan," and "a way of doing things," that wasn't conventional. Sound familiar?

    Also sounds like if you have an out of the box way of doing things, it better work...and like Mangini, Idzik's plan isn't working.

    if you're going to build through the draft, you have to draft well, and he's hit, "so far," on 2 of 20 picks (Amaro and Richardson).

    I also agree with the thought process of if a guy doesn't draft well, do you turn over your #1 overall pick to him?

    Maybe not.

    I do see a ton of similarities in Mangini and Idzik and the way they do things. I could also see Woody not enjoying the way Idzik does things, the same way he didn't enjoy the way Mangini was running his team. It could feel too similar and Woody may want to cut bait sooner than later...just like Mangini.

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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by cysporsche on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 10:59

    First off, I believe about 50% of what comes out of the NY papers, they are all scrambling to break a story. I honestly don't see Idzik getting fired as well as Rex. I think Woody gives Idzik a chance to bring in his own HC. I think the plan by Idzik & Woody was to fire Rex after last season, then Rex went on a winning streak and saved his job. That won't happen this year.

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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by LIJETFAN on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 11:14

    Whether it is true or not, I think Woody going after someone like a Bill Cowher or Jon Gruden would be the right decision.  I've said this several times on another thread, what this team desperately needs is someone at the helm with substantial credibility.  

    I also agree that it is bad business from Woody's perspective to anger the PSL holders.  Season tickets are incredibly expensive and the fans that pay the PSL fees deserve a far better product then they are watching this year.


    Last edited by LIJETFAN on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 11:33; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by GratefulJet on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 11:19

    What I don't like about this is the appearance, if it happens any time soon, of giving in to an angry lynch mob, especially one led by Manish Mehta.

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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by Metjetgal on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 11:20

    If Woody fires Idzik, he's got to get a guy like Polian. He's got to open that checkbook.
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by Seaver on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 11:43

    LIJETFAN wrote:Whether it is true or not, I think Woody going after someone like a Bill Cowher or Jon Gruden would be the right decision.  I've said this several times on another thread, what this team desperately needs is someone at the helm with substantial credibility.  

    I also agree that it is bad business from Woody's perspective to anger the PSL holders.  Season tickets are incredibly expensive and the fans that pay the PSL fees deserve a far better product then they are watching this year.

    what about Gruden is credible? He developed one QB...Rich Gannon. He bled the TB roster dry and never drafted well. Why do people keep throwing his name in the ring when he would be an absolute failure running the show? He's qualified to be an OC........that's it.

    I can't buy into Cowher either.......he said last night that Andy Dalton can win a Superbowl. That's enough for me.
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by Seaver on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 11:53

    The one thing Woody has been concerned with over the years is selling the Jets brand. He's been accused of seeking the back pages....staying relevant. He supposedly loves the notoriety/attention that Rex Ryan had brought to the organization from the press quotes to Hard Knocks. He seems to love basking in the glory of positive press. He was quick to walk the parking lots before games to shake hands....is he still doing that?

    Point is Woody has been and will continue to act on the influence of others. If he is convinced his brand will further suffer with Idzik at the helm.....he will flush him. He should probably shit can team President Neil Glat as well. He's been useless.

    Woody's smart enough to know that angry fans won't spend their money. If keeping Idzik further angers the mob, what else can he do unless he has 100% confidence that Idzik is the cream of the crop of GMs.

    If Woody himself has the slightest doubt in the choice made by Jed Hughes and Neil Glat (because you know that Woody won't accept the blame) then he has to flush it.
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by GratefulJet on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 11:54

    Seaver wrote:
    LIJETFAN wrote:Whether it is true or not, I think Woody going after someone like a Bill Cowher or Jon Gruden would be the right decision.  I've said this several times on another thread, what this team desperately needs is someone at the helm with substantial credibility.  

    I also agree that it is bad business from Woody's perspective to anger the PSL holders.  Season tickets are incredibly expensive and the fans that pay the PSL fees deserve a far better product then they are watching this year.

    what about Gruden is credible?  He developed one QB...Rich Gannon.  He bled the TB roster dry and never drafted well.  Why do people keep throwing his name in the ring when he would be an absolute failure running the show?  He's qualified to be an OC........that's it.

    I can't buy into Cowher either.......he said last night that Andy Dalton can win a Superbowl.  That's enough for me.

    Is there anyone you would like to see take over as GM? I really don't know much about potential candidates. Most of the guys with experience on the street could be viewed as past failures. The good ones are still employed. That leaves assistants that are looking to step up. Do we try to pull someone from a successful program (a la Steelers or Packers)?
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by Seaver on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 12:05

    GratefulJet wrote:
    Seaver wrote:
    LIJETFAN wrote:Whether it is true or not, I think Woody going after someone like a Bill Cowher or Jon Gruden would be the right decision.  I've said this several times on another thread, what this team desperately needs is someone at the helm with substantial credibility.  

    I also agree that it is bad business from Woody's perspective to anger the PSL holders.  Season tickets are incredibly expensive and the fans that pay the PSL fees deserve a far better product then they are watching this year.

    what about Gruden is credible?  He developed one QB...Rich Gannon.  He bled the TB roster dry and never drafted well.  Why do people keep throwing his name in the ring when he would be an absolute failure running the show?  He's qualified to be an OC........that's it.

    I can't buy into Cowher either.......he said last night that Andy Dalton can win a Superbowl.  That's enough for me.

    Is there anyone you would like to see take over as GM? I really don't know much about potential candidates. Most of the guys with experience on the street could be viewed as past failures. The good ones are still employed. That leaves assistants that are looking to step up. Do we try to pull someone from a successful program (a la Steelers or Packers)?

    I'd find different advisers to start. Woody is listening to business people, not football people. What this organization lacks......and needs most of all.....is a strong personnel guy to guide their player acquisition. So I would start with a personnel guy stuck behind a good GM with a stellar rep in the industry for personnel. He can find any Ivy Leaguer if he needs a contract guy to help. I personally don't know the names of these individuals, but let's stop reaching for the talking heads on tv who have no experience running a football operation.

    As for Bill Polian.....the only way I take him in is if his kid is NOT part of the deal. Polian's time in IND ended poorly because he handed much of the duties over to his kid who then botched drafts.

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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by football51 on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 12:27

    Seaver wrote:
    GratefulJet wrote:
    Seaver wrote:
    LIJETFAN wrote:Whether it is true or not, I think Woody going after someone like a Bill Cowher or Jon Gruden would be the right decision.  I've said this several times on another thread, what this team desperately needs is someone at the helm with substantial credibility.  

    I also agree that it is bad business from Woody's perspective to anger the PSL holders.  Season tickets are incredibly expensive and the fans that pay the PSL fees deserve a far better product then they are watching this year.

    what about Gruden is credible?  He developed one QB...Rich Gannon.  He bled the TB roster dry and never drafted well.  Why do people keep throwing his name in the ring when he would be an absolute failure running the show?  He's qualified to be an OC........that's it.

    I can't buy into Cowher either.......he said last night that Andy Dalton can win a Superbowl.  That's enough for me.

    Is there anyone you would like to see take over as GM? I really don't know much about potential candidates. Most of the guys with experience on the street could be viewed as past failures. The good ones are still employed. That leaves assistants that are looking to step up. Do we try to pull someone from a successful program (a la Steelers or Packers)?

    I'd find different advisers to start.  Woody is listening to business people, not football people.  What this organization lacks......and needs most of all.....is a strong personnel guy to guide their player acquisition.  So I would start with a personnel guy stuck behind a good GM with a stellar rep in the industry for personnel.  He can find any Ivy Leaguer if he needs a contract guy to help.  I personally don't know the names of these individuals, but let's stop reaching for the talking heads on tv who have no experience running a football operation.

    As for Bill Polian.....the only way I take him in is if his kid is NOT part of the deal.  Polian's time in IND ended poorly because he handed much of the duties over to his kid who then botched drafts.





    Not entirely true. Woody listened to football people for our first two gm hires, and Polian gave his approval of our third. Polian was hired as a consultant last year and sat in on all of the gm interviews. There's too much speculation/fallacy surrounding Johnson. The facts say otherwise. As far as team president Neil Glatt is concerned, Johnson hired him straight out of the league offices.




    I don't want a 70+ year old as our gm. I wish I could remember the name, but the Daily News mentioned the player personnel director of the Chiefs as the hottest name for a gm position(besides the asst. gm of the Ravens who refuses to leave). The Bucs wanted him as their gm, but Luvie Smith has final say there, and he turned down the job.




    IF we hire Cowher, supposedly his gm of choice is Omar Khan(who was a finalist with Idzik in 2013). He's a pure cap guy. Cowher also had his fair share of average to below average seasons. The Steelers had patience. Do we? I'm not a big Gruden fan myself. He never developed a young qb and won a championship with Dungy's defense. The Bucs drafts under Gruden were nothing to get excited about overall either.





    I don't want this decision to be about worthless media hacks(Mehta) or crazed members of this fan base. Woody shouldn't cave into the pressure. If this is because of his own personal disappointment then that's fine.
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 12:50

    I have no problem getting rid of Idzik, though I think it speaks of organizational instability.

    I have an enormous problem with getting rid of Idzik and keeping Rex.
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by football51 on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 13:02

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/45799/the-fall-of-the-ryan-empire-from-a-bitter-loss-in-pittsburgh-to-now







    Interesting how Cimini mentions this in the article...........



    "burned by a win-now mentality that prioritized free-agent spending over drafting and developing talent."






    I hope Woody keeps this in mind. Gruden and Cowher aren't going to be looking to build threw the draft. Unless everything clicks and we actually win a championship, we'll be a 10/11 win team that wins a playoff game or two that will get old and erode in a hurry and have to start the process all over again.

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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 13:16

    Fans may get what they want, a playoff team, but it doesn't help build a champion here.
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by Sarge on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 14:40

    I can't imagine firing Idzik and keeping Rex is even on the table
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 15:01

    Sarge wrote:I can't imagine firing Idzik and keeping Rex is even on the table
    If it was, the fans should revolt.

    They won't, mainly because Rex is a likeable guy, but they should.

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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by LIJETFAN on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 15:28

    Sack, I can't imagine  firing Idzik and keeping Rex.  That would make very little sense.  I think they both go.  

    As far as Gruden and Cowher's credibility, they both have won championships as the HC, let's start with that premise.  The last coach that we had that won a championship as a HC was Bill Parcells.  The Steelers had patience with Cowher because he was an excellent coach, who built a great coaching staff and a very competitive team year in and year out.  Gruden similarly had a great staff and did a tremendous job with the Raiders and the Bucs.  The fact that the Bucs had a great defense when he arrived is not the point.  That kind of thinking diminishes his accomplishments as if to say, any coach could have done it.  If that was true, why did Tampa Bay trade for Gruden in the first place?  They could have just won without him right? No, Gruden took the team to the next level.  

    We can debate the merits of both of these two coaches, and frankly I am agnostic to the coach we choose.  The same applies to the GM.  My primary requirement for a new Coach/GM has a track record of success.  That starts with having built a championship team and/or coached one.  (I say and/or because if you have a coach/GM situation they would not have done both in the past).   I think both Gruden and Cowher are very good coaches and would be fine choices.  They have instant credibility which this team needs.
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by SackExchange on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 15:32

    The problem with both Cowher and Gruden is they have been away from the game for some time.

    If the team really wants to make a splash, I am thinking more and more that Harbaugh will be the route to go. That is, if Idzik is canned with Rex. I sense the relationship with the 49ers is irreparable, so if Woody wants to bring in someone with gravitas, current relevance, and the ability to groom a high draft pick QB, Harbaugh would be the guy.
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by Seaver on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 17:05

    LIJETFAN wrote:Sack, I can't imagine  firing Idzik and keeping Rex.  That would make very little sense.  I think they both go.  

    As far as Gruden and Cowher's credibility, they both have won championships as the HC, let's start with that premise.  The last coach that we had that won a championship as a HC was Bill Parcells.  The Steelers had patience with Cowher because he was an excellent coach, who built a great coaching staff and a very competitive team year in and year out.  Gruden similarly had a great staff and did a tremendous job with the Raiders and the Bucs.  The fact that the Bucs had a great defense when he arrived is not the point.  That kind of thinking diminishes his accomplishments as if to say, any coach could have done it.  If that was true, why did Tampa Bay trade for Gruden in the first place?  They could have just won without him right? No, Gruden took the team to the next level.  

    We can debate the merits of both of these two coaches, and frankly I am agnostic to the coach we choose.  The same applies to the GM.  My primary requirement for a new Coach/GM has a track record of success.  That starts with having built a championship team and/or coached one.  (I say and/or because if you have a coach/GM situation they would not have done both in the past).   I think both Gruden and Cowher are very good coaches and would be fine choices.  They have instant credibility which this team needs.

    Gruden did very little with TB. They had a championship caliber defense, but Dungy was holding them back offensively. In fact, that season with Gruden, the Bucs were getting killed most of the season in pass protection. Brad Johnson was getting killed or checking down. Finally, the old Jet OL coach Bill Muir figured it out in the last month of the season and Johnson could then just check down. There was no magic on offense. They were able to run the ball towards the end and into the playoffs, but winning that Superbowl wasn't much different than how Baltimore won with Dilfer at QB......Gruden just took a negative performing offense and brought it to passable. The defense that year was ungodly. The Superbowl was a cakewalk because Callahan was using Gruden's playbook. In fact, the Bucs defense was calling out the plays on the sideline. After that season, Gruden and his drafts added nothing to the team and as the roster got older and players left it went downhill. Gruden also divided the lockeroom and handled players like a snake oil salesman - telling them to their face what they needed to hear and saying things differently behind their backs. I want no part of that glorified QB coach.
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by Seaver on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 17:06

    SackExchange wrote:The problem with both Cowher and Gruden is they have been away from the game for some time.

    If the team really wants to make a splash, I am thinking more and more that Harbaugh will be the route to go. That is, if Idzik is canned with Rex. I sense the relationship with the 49ers is irreparable, so if Woody wants to bring in someone with gravitas, current relevance, and the ability to groom a high draft pick QB, Harbaugh would be the guy.

    what about Harbaugh being a west coast guy.....is he coming east for THIS organization?
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by Seaver on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 17:10

    Sarge wrote:I can't imagine firing Idzik and keeping Rex is even on the table

    I can't see Rex surviving any scenario
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by JohnnyBaseball on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 18:07

    Seaver wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:The problem with both Cowher and Gruden is they have been away from the game for some time.

    If the team really wants to make a splash, I am thinking more and more that Harbaugh will be the route to go. That is, if Idzik is canned with Rex. I sense the relationship with the 49ers is irreparable, so if Woody wants to bring in someone with gravitas, current relevance, and the ability to groom a high draft pick QB, Harbaugh would be the guy.

    what about Harbaugh being a west coast guy.....is he coming east for THIS organization?

    Well, if Manish Mehta has his way, he'll be fired before he even gets settled in, so sure, why not take a trip to New York for a few weeks? jocolor

    More seriously, I don't know if Harbaugh comes to us or not, but I've always suspected that there's SOMEONE out there who understands that if they can win the Super Bowl with this team, they will be adored and treated as a legend for the rest of their life, in a way that just isn't true in other cities and even with other teams in this city. Someone out there has to want the challenge, and the glory! That would be one of my selling points, anyway. Maybe it wouldn't mean much to most, but to the person who wanted that kind of glory, it might mean everything.
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    Re: Reports: Woody likely to fire Idzik

    Post by GratefulJet on Fri 7 Nov 2014 - 18:51

    JohnnyBaseball wrote:
    Seaver wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:The problem with both Cowher and Gruden is they have been away from the game for some time.

    If the team really wants to make a splash, I am thinking more and more that Harbaugh will be the route to go. That is, if Idzik is canned with Rex. I sense the relationship with the 49ers is irreparable, so if Woody wants to bring in someone with gravitas, current relevance, and the ability to groom a high draft pick QB, Harbaugh would be the guy.

    what about Harbaugh being a west coast guy.....is he coming east for THIS organization?

    Well, if Manish Mehta has his way, he'll be fired before he even gets settled in, so sure, why not take a trip to New York for a few weeks? jocolor

    More seriously, I don't know if Harbaugh comes to us or not, but I've always suspected that there's SOMEONE out there who understands that if they can win the Super Bowl with this team, they will be adored and treated as a legend for the rest of their life, in a way that just isn't true in other cities and even with other teams in this city. Someone out there has to want the challenge, and the glory! That would be one of my selling points, anyway. Maybe it wouldn't mean much to most, but to the person who wanted that kind of glory, it might mean everything.

    Rex Ryan was that person.

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