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    Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

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    Old#15
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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by Old#15 on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 16:47

    Blindsidebrick wrote:
    WilliesDad wrote:I do have to add that Rex was not given a full deck to play with as Idzik didn't do him any favors with how he built the Defensive backfield.

    I'm not buying that. This team's problems go way beyond Idzik. Now next year, we can start examining Idzik's job more. But right now, this lies at the feet of Ryan. Undisciplined and sloppy play go right to the HC.

    It's like a broken record, but it bears repeating: Milliner's injury was nobody's fault, McDougle's injury was nobody's fault, and Patterson played well before he signed here, and before he went nuts and didn't show up for practice. Bad luck at CB.

    +1

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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by Metjetgal on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 17:05

    Old#15 wrote:
    Blindsidebrick wrote:
    WilliesDad wrote:I do have to add that Rex was not given a full deck to play with as Idzik didn't do him any favors with how he built the Defensive backfield.

    I'm not buying that. This team's problems go way beyond Idzik. Now next year, we can start examining Idzik's job more. But right now, this lies at the feet of Ryan. Undisciplined and sloppy play go right to the HC.

    It's like a broken record, but it bears repeating: Milliner's injury was nobody's fault, McDougle's injury was nobody's fault, and Patterson played well before he signed here, and before he went nuts and didn't show up for practice. Bad luck at CB.

    +1

    Disagree, Patterson was never good. Ever. Milliner didn't prove anything, and neither did McDougle. While I don't think Rex has done well, Idzik should already be on the hot seat. The offense and backfield are atrocious. Both guys get blame. Luckily for Idzik he probably gets one more yr. Patterson was a horrific signing from the start.

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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by Blindsidebrick on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 17:11

    What we should be asking right now is this: what WILL happen as a result of today's performance?

    Not what do you hope will happen, what will happen?

    Ryan will get fired at some point, hopefully soon. Idzik, despite what some fans think of him, will not be fired after this season. Too small of a sample size to judge, compared to six years under Ryan.

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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by Metjetgal on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 17:13

    Ryan might not even make it through the season if we continue to look like this. santa
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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by NickSINYC on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 17:13

    Metjetgal wrote:
    Old#15 wrote:
    Blindsidebrick wrote:
    WilliesDad wrote:I do have to add that Rex was not given a full deck to play with as Idzik didn't do him any favors with how he built the Defensive backfield.

    I'm not buying that. This team's problems go way beyond Idzik. Now next year, we can start examining Idzik's job more. But right now, this lies at the feet of Ryan. Undisciplined and sloppy play go right to the HC.

    It's like a broken record, but it bears repeating: Milliner's injury was nobody's fault, McDougle's injury was nobody's fault, and Patterson played well before he signed here, and before he went nuts and didn't show up for practice. Bad luck at CB.

    +1

    Disagree, Patterson was never good. Ever. Milliner didn't prove anything, and neither did McDougle. While I don't think Rex has done well, Idzik should already be on the hot seat. The offense and backfield are atrocious. Both guys get blame. Luckily for Idzik he probably gets one more yr. Patterson was a horrific signing from the start.
    IMHO it is unfair to judge any GM in a year and a half and injuries can not be foreseen. I personally think their was enough talent on the field today if well coached could have easily won this game.

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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by Old#15 on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 17:23

    What we are seeing on the field is Rex, and has become abundantly clear that he is limited. Not HC material.
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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by SackExchange on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 18:12

    Metjetgal wrote:Idzik and Rex should both be fired.
    And how long would we give the next GM? A year? The first loss? The moment he drafts someone we don't like?
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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by SackExchange on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 18:14

    NickSINYC wrote:
    Metjetgal wrote:
    Old#15 wrote:
    Blindsidebrick wrote:
    WilliesDad wrote:I do have to add that Rex was not given a full deck to play with as Idzik didn't do him any favors with how he built the Defensive backfield.

    I'm not buying that. This team's problems go way beyond Idzik. Now next year, we can start examining Idzik's job more. But right now, this lies at the feet of Ryan. Undisciplined and sloppy play go right to the HC.

    It's like a broken record, but it bears repeating: Milliner's injury was nobody's fault, McDougle's injury was nobody's fault, and Patterson played well before he signed here, and before he went nuts and didn't show up for practice. Bad luck at CB.

    +1

    Disagree, Patterson was never good. Ever. Milliner didn't prove anything, and neither did McDougle. While I don't think Rex has done well, Idzik should already be on the hot seat. The offense and backfield are atrocious. Both guys get blame. Luckily for Idzik he probably gets one more yr. Patterson was a horrific signing from the start.
    IMHO it is unfair to judge any GM in a year and a half and injuries can not be foreseen. I personally think their was enough talent on the field today if well coached could have easily won this game.
    Agreed.

    EVERY team has holes. It's the nature of the beast in the salary cap age.

    Any team that has been at or toward the top of the league at some point during the season in each of the categories of rushing offense, run defense, and sacks should not be 1-7. It's that simple.
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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by Superman55 on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 18:44

    SackExchange wrote:
    NickSINYC wrote:
    Metjetgal wrote:
    Old#15 wrote:
    Blindsidebrick wrote:
    WilliesDad wrote:I do have to add that Rex was not given a full deck to play with as Idzik didn't do him any favors with how he built the Defensive backfield.

    I'm not buying that. This team's problems go way beyond Idzik. Now next year, we can start examining Idzik's job more. But right now, this lies at the feet of Ryan. Undisciplined and sloppy play go right to the HC.

    It's like a broken record, but it bears repeating: Milliner's injury was nobody's fault, McDougle's injury was nobody's fault, and Patterson played well before he signed here, and before he went nuts and didn't show up for practice. Bad luck at CB.

    +1

    Disagree, Patterson was never good. Ever. Milliner didn't prove anything, and neither did McDougle. While I don't think Rex has done well, Idzik should already be on the hot seat. The offense and backfield are atrocious. Both guys get blame. Luckily for Idzik he probably gets one more yr. Patterson was a horrific signing from the start.
    IMHO it is unfair to judge any GM in a year and a half and injuries can not be foreseen. I personally think their was enough talent on the field today if well coached could have easily won this game.
    Agreed.

    EVERY team has holes. It's the nature of the beast in the salary cap age.

    Any team that has been at or toward the top of the league at some point during the season in each of the categories of rushing offense, run defense, and sacks should not be 1-7. It's that simple.

    Every team has holes, not every team goes into a season with high school walk-ons at DBs.

    Put most of the blame on Rex if you want, but if you Bring in Bill Walsh to be your HC, you don't give him Blaine Gabbert at QB and Clyde Gates at WR.

    We did the same thing to Rex who bring an aggressive in your face D...and gave him Walls, Allen, and Wilson to play CB.

    Don't blame the lack of secondary depth on injuries, remember, everyone has injuries.  I'd call what Mike T gave Rex in revis and Cromartie as understanding what Rex brings to a organization.  Giving Rex Patteron and a banged up Milliner to go with Wilson, seems to scream I have no idea how to give the cook what he needs to be successful while grocery shopping.

    That being said, idzik has redone the offense and needs to find a QB.  Now he also needs to address the secondary and OLBs and see where this goes. Idzik gets two more years, while will include a new QB, HC, OC, and DC and gives him 4 off seasons. Hopefully we're not still a 1 win team after 2 more glorious off seasons. I do like our skill positions now.

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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by NickSINYC on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 18:51

    Superman55 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NickSINYC wrote:
    Metjetgal wrote:
    Old#15 wrote:
    Blindsidebrick wrote:
    WilliesDad wrote:I do have to add that Rex was not given a full deck to play with as Idzik didn't do him any favors with how he built the Defensive backfield.

    I'm not buying that. This team's problems go way beyond Idzik. Now next year, we can start examining Idzik's job more. But right now, this lies at the feet of Ryan. Undisciplined and sloppy play go right to the HC.

    It's like a broken record, but it bears repeating: Milliner's injury was nobody's fault, McDougle's injury was nobody's fault, and Patterson played well before he signed here, and before he went nuts and didn't show up for practice. Bad luck at CB.

    +1

    Disagree, Patterson was never good. Ever. Milliner didn't prove anything, and neither did McDougle. While I don't think Rex has done well, Idzik should already be on the hot seat. The offense and backfield are atrocious. Both guys get blame. Luckily for Idzik he probably gets one more yr. Patterson was a horrific signing from the start.
    IMHO it is unfair to judge any GM in a year and a half and injuries can not be foreseen. I personally think their was enough talent on the field today if well coached could have easily won this game.
    Agreed.

    EVERY team has holes. It's the nature of the beast in the salary cap age.

    Any team that has been at or toward the top of the league at some point during the season in each of the categories of rushing offense, run defense, and sacks should not be 1-7. It's that simple.

    Every team has holes, not every team goes into a season with high school walk-ons at DBs.

    Put most of the blame on Rex if you want, but if you Bring in Bill Walsh to be your HC, you don't give him Blaine Gabbert at QB and Clyde Gates at WR.

    We did the same thing to Rex who bring an aggressive in your face D...and gave him Walls, Allen, and Wilson to play CB.

    Don't blame the lack of secondary depth on injuries, remember, everyone has injuries.  I'd call what Mike T gave Rex in revis and Cromartie as understanding what Rex brings to a organization.  Giving Rex Patteron and a banged up Milliner to go with Wilson, seems to scream I have no idea how to give the cook what he needs to be successful while grocery shopping.

    That being said, idzik has redone the offense and needs to find a QB.  Now he needs to address the secondary and OLBs and see where this goes.

    The secondary did get burned bad a few times in the game but the D as a whole played well and I in no way blame them or Idzik for the loss. 

    This game was lost do to too many turnovers and stupid penalties and the team not being prepared at the start of the game after 10 days to prepared and not make the right halftime adjustments. That's all on Rex
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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by Superman55 on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 18:56

    SackExchange wrote:
    Metjetgal wrote:Idzik and Rex should both be fired.
    And how long would we give the next GM? A year? The first loss? The moment he drafts someone we don't like?

    Idzik gets to fire this cook, who was never his, and gets to hire his chef who can cook something with these groceries.  These groceries will likely include Idzik young QB #2 and a ton of cap space to fill these holes on D (there's some solid OLBs in this FA class but no DBs I get super excited about...lord I hope we don't sign Revis).

    The new chef and his boss get two years to show we're heading in the right direction.  This coaching staff with Idzik's shopping can't win.  They're not a match, plain and simple, IMO.  If Rex is going to be your HC, so he can coach the way he wants, he can't do it with these CBs and playing cover 2.

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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by Lakerfan1980 on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 19:16

    Rex was given another 1st rounder for his defense and it still can create turnovers. Rex wanted the thumper in Pryor, when his corners have been getting beat deep for a couple of years. Today we watched Watkins average 50 yards a catch, with no safety in sight. Rex's defense has been around for some time now, and the passing game has changed since Revis was shutting guys down in 2010.
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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by Superman55 on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 19:18

    NickSINYC wrote:
    Superman55 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    NickSINYC wrote:
    Metjetgal wrote:
    Old#15 wrote:
    Blindsidebrick wrote:
    WilliesDad wrote:I do have to add that Rex was not given a full deck to play with as Idzik didn't do him any favors with how he built the Defensive backfield.

    I'm not buying that. This team's problems go way beyond Idzik. Now next year, we can start examining Idzik's job more. But right now, this lies at the feet of Ryan. Undisciplined and sloppy play go right to the HC.

    It's like a broken record, but it bears repeating: Milliner's injury was nobody's fault, McDougle's injury was nobody's fault, and Patterson played well before he signed here, and before he went nuts and didn't show up for practice. Bad luck at CB.

    +1

    Disagree, Patterson was never good. Ever. Milliner didn't prove anything, and neither did McDougle. While I don't think Rex has done well, Idzik should already be on the hot seat. The offense and backfield are atrocious. Both guys get blame. Luckily for Idzik he probably gets one more yr. Patterson was a horrific signing from the start.
    IMHO it is unfair to judge any GM in a year and a half and injuries can not be foreseen. I personally think their was enough talent on the field today if well coached could have easily won this game.
    Agreed.

    EVERY team has holes. It's the nature of the beast in the salary cap age.

    Any team that has been at or toward the top of the league at some point during the season in each of the categories of rushing offense, run defense, and sacks should not be 1-7. It's that simple.

    Every team has holes, not every team goes into a season with high school walk-ons at DBs.

    Put most of the blame on Rex if you want, but if you Bring in Bill Walsh to be your HC, you don't give him Blaine Gabbert at QB and Clyde Gates at WR.

    We did the same thing to Rex who bring an aggressive in your face D...and gave him Walls, Allen, and Wilson to play CB.

    Don't blame the lack of secondary depth on injuries, remember, everyone has injuries.  I'd call what Mike T gave Rex in revis and Cromartie as understanding what Rex brings to a organization.  Giving Rex Patteron and a banged up Milliner to go with Wilson, seems to scream I have no idea how to give the cook what he needs to be successful while grocery shopping.

    That being said, idzik has redone the offense and needs to find a QB.  Now he needs to address the secondary and OLBs and see where this goes.

    The secondary did get burned bad a few times in the game but the D as a whole played well and I in no way blame them or Idzik for the loss. 

    This game was lost do to too many turnovers and stupid penalties and the team not being prepared at the start of the game after 10 days to prepared and not make the right halftime adjustments. That's all on Rex

    I 100% agree with that. Because of that, I wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't make it past the bye week. How could the first 10 passing scripted plays looked anything like that from Geno? This team was not ready to go any place but on D. Yes, Sammy burned them bad a couple times, but the D was on the field all day and they did play a heck of a game for what they were up against.

    Hey, I'm ready for Idzik to move on with a guy who believes in the same philosophies as his. They'll get another QB for us to get behind and grab a couple more free agents to plug our holes. Milliner, McDougle, Winters, and Evans will be back with a new draft class and some free agents. We'll be hoping for 8-8 next year and growth from a young QB who starts putting it together by the end of the year.

    I'll sign up for that off season...trying to guess which HC idzik picks and which QB he targets in the draft. Should be fun. king

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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by Lakerfan1980 on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 19:30

    I'm also interested in the next defense. I really like the speed of the 4-3, especially in today's passing game. The 4 man front is great as well. I hope there is a franchise QB, and we are in position to grab one, but I hope there is a veteran pocket passer available as well in FA....like an Orton.
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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by SackExchange on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 20:30

    Superman55 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    Metjetgal wrote:Idzik and Rex should both be fired.
    And how long would we give the next GM? A year? The first loss? The moment he drafts someone we don't like?

    Idzik gets to fire this cook, who was never his, and gets to hire his chef who can cook something with these groceries.  These groceries will likely include Idzik young QB #2 and a ton of cap space to fill these holes on D (there's some solid OLBs in this FA class but no DBs I get super excited about...lord I hope we don't sign Revis).

    The new chef and his boss get two years to show we're heading in the right direction.  This coaching staff with Idzik's shopping can't win.  They're not a match, plain and simple, IMO.  If Rex is going to be your HC, so he can coach the way he wants, he can't do it with these CBs and playing cover 2.
    Idzik not doing anywhere near enough at CB is condemning of him. He deserves to be bashed for that.

    But he has made some solid moves, opened up cap space, and drafted relatively well in the upper rounds. Milliner is starter caliber, if not a #1. Amaro looks real. Richardson. His mid-rounders have been pretty bad, which may indicate he would be better off going quality over quantity, and trading up more often.

    He does deserve a coach of his choosing and the chance to address the remaining holes on the team. I do think it's a bad match, and Rex has been here the longest. If one of them goes, has to be Rex.

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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by soj on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 20:31

    I have to admit today was the 1st time since Kottie that I turn off the game. There is no excuse for this team playing like it did esp. after 10 days to prepare. I don't blame rex for the lack of talent in the secondary but we have been complaining about his inability to be anything more then a DC...

    To play they want this team did against NE and then play like this is unbelievable. Rex should get fired tonight or tomorrow the latest.
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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by SackExchange on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 20:33

    soj wrote:I have to admit today was the 1st time since Kottie that I turn off the game. There is no excuse for this team playing like it did esp. after 10 days to prepare.  I don't blame rex for the lack of talent in the secondary but we have been complaining about his inability to be anything more then a DC...

    To play they want this team did against NE and then play like this is unbelievable. Rex should get fired tonight or tomorrow the latest.
    Rex probably makes it to the bye. Maybe to the end of the season, but more likely the bye if they lose that last game before the break.

    The question is, when will the bulk of the fan base start to see this? No other Jets coach has earned such staunch loyalty from this impatient fan base. There are even fans who want Idzik out but for Rex to stay. Are they even watching the games?

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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by McJet on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 20:38

    Time to unload the bench or fill it.
    Landry bench put Pryor into his more natural SS spot.
    Pace bench, if healthy put in Reilly and the draft pick Ikenpaili (sp)? see what's there.
    Put Allen in at FS and keep him there,let's see what he can do at 1 spot. Bring up the Miles kid.
    Don't know who to bench and bring up for the Offense.Put in Dakota for Colon?
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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by SackExchange on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 20:40

    McJet wrote:Time to unload the bench or fill it.
    Landry bench put Pryor into his more natural SS spot.
    Pace bench, if healthy put in Reilly and the draft pick Ikenpaili (sp)? see what's there.
    Put Allen in at FS and keep him there,let's see what he can do at 1 spot. Bring up the Miles kid.
    Don't know who to bench and bring up for the Offense.Put in Dakota for Colon?
    Pace got a shared sack today, didn't he? Not sure he merited a benching, or what message it would send.
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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by Superman55 on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 20:46

    SackExchange wrote:
    McJet wrote:Time to unload the bench or fill it.
    Landry bench put Pryor into his more natural SS spot.
    Pace bench, if healthy put in Reilly and the draft pick Ikenpaili (sp)? see what's there.
    Put Allen in at FS and keep him there,let's see what he can do at 1 spot. Bring up the Miles kid.
    Don't know who to bench and bring up for the Offense.Put in Dakota for Colon?
    Pace got a shared sack today, didn't he? Not sure he merited a benching, or what message it would send.

    I thought Coples and Pace played their guts out today. I was really happy with both.

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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by Old#15 on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 21:06

    Superman55 wrote:
    SackExchange wrote:
    McJet wrote:Time to unload the bench or fill it.
    Landry bench put Pryor into his more natural SS spot.
    Pace bench, if healthy put in Reilly and the draft pick Ikenpaili (sp)? see what's there.
    Put Allen in at FS and keep him there,let's see what he can do at 1 spot. Bring up the Miles kid.
    Don't know who to bench and bring up for the Offense.Put in Dakota for Colon?
    Pace got a shared sack today, didn't he? Not sure he merited a benching, or what message it would send.

    I thought Coples and Pace played their guts out today. I was really happy with both.
    Amazing what Coples can do when he's playing where he belongs.

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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by WilliesDad on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 21:42

    WilliesDad wrote:I do have to add that Rex was not given a full deck to play with as Idzik didn't do him any favors with how he built the Defensive backfield.

    I made this comment based on what I believe I know about Rex's defense. That it's crucial for the success of it to have strong corners who can stay with the receives for a bit giving the line an extra second or two to get to the QB s he is waiting for his receivers to get open. Rex has garbage at the CB position and it is forcing him to play guys out of position, thereby causing more defensive breakdowns, correct?

    Can anyone honestly say that if Milliner and McDougle were healthy that it would be enough? Many of you know more about how the D works than I do, but I truly believe we are unnecessarily thin and weak at what is arguably the most important position in Rex's scheme.

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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by Old#15 on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 21:52

    why does it always have to be about Rex's defense and what he has or doesn't have? He has gotten #1 picks just about every year and look what we have. He's in over his head, only sees one phase of the game.

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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by Metjetgal on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 21:55

    Idzik will get another yr, it takes time for plans to play out obviously , but he let this team go into the season with a horrible secondary and an underwhelming offense. That's on him, and his plan better come together soon. He needs to shore up a a number of things , and oh yeah , find a qb.
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    Re: Bill at Jets 1PM October 26, 2014

    Post by football51 on Sun 26 Oct 2014 - 22:46

    Idzik is getting way more than one more year. NOBODY is going to come here to be the HC if it's one and done. Woody hated Mangini and his secretive/paranoid ways, and he got three years(Revis said that Mangini made him hate football). Idzik will get to hire his own coach and restart his clock. The new coach will get a four year deal, and he'll get the first three to show some promise.



    I agree with Nick's initial point. We are a stupid team. We have been for years now. The losses this year to Green Bay, Chicago, Detroit, NE, and today( Harvin has been here a week, and it looked like the gameplan revolved around him Rolling Eyes ) are on coaching. Rex has had 3 oc's, 2 gm's, 2 qb coaches, 3 special team's coaches, etc. When is it his fault? It's not 2010 anymore, and we haven't been good since then, and that includes years with Revis and Cro at cb. Rex had two tremendous seasons here and the rest have been average or worse. Idzik wasn't here in 2011 or 2012. Tannenbaum already took the fall. Now, after six seasons, it's time for a new direction.

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