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    Jets trade for Percy Harvin

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    Post by Superman55 on Wed 22 Oct 2014 - 16:59

    hobson54 wrote:Coach Rex Ryan said it's "unrealistic" to expect Percy Harvin to play 50 offensive snaps in his Jets' debut Week 8 against the Bills.
    Harvin will return kickoffs and possibly punts, but he doesn't know OC Marty Mornhinweg's offense. The Jets will have a couple packages for Harvin on offense, but he's unlikely to play more than 25-30 snaps. It may take a few weeks before Harvin becomes usable in fantasy lineups. It'll be Eric Decker and Jeremy Kerley gobbling up the bulk of the work and targets at receiver Sunday.
    Source: Rich Cimini on Twitter Oct 22 - 2:34 PM

    If it was a betting line, my guess is it would be 30 plays. That's what I'd expect, ~30 plays. Just the attention he draws will be valuable. Even when he motions out of the baxkfield, I bet we'll see defenses flatten out and 1-2 (a LB and S sometimes) come out of the box and running lanes open.

    Even if it is only 30 plays, it'll be the most exciting 30 plays of the season for me since week 1.
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    Post by Seaver on Wed 22 Oct 2014 - 17:35

    I'm taking a wait and see approach to Harvin. He's an odd fit as he isn't a disciplined route runner and essentially needs his own package. Special teams should benefit immediately. I'm looking at this as no more than a better way to evaluate Geno and help the GM decide which round he needs to draft another QB to compete next year.
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    Post by soj on Wed 22 Oct 2014 - 19:39

    Seaver wrote:I'm taking a wait and see approach to Harvin.  He's an odd fit as he isn't a disciplined route runner and essentially needs his own package.  Special teams should benefit immediately.  I'm looking at this as no more than a better way to evaluate Geno and help the GM decide which round he needs to draft another QB to compete next year.

    Welcome Seaver...saw your post and did a double take. Anyway, I hope your wrong and he turns into a valuable WR/KR, just saying.
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    Post by skop on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 9:06

    soj wrote:
    Seaver wrote:I'm taking a wait and see approach to Harvin.  He's an odd fit as he isn't a disciplined route runner and essentially needs his own package.  Special teams should benefit immediately.  I'm looking at this as no more than a better way to evaluate Geno and help the GM decide which round he needs to draft another QB to compete next year.

    Welcome Seaver...saw your post and did a double take.  Anyway, I hope your wrong and he turns into a valuable WR/KR, just saying.


    Actually, there is some truth to Seaver's point. He isn't necessarily a receiver. At Florida, he was a RB who was also a receiver.

    http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/percy-harvin-1.html

    But it cannot be understated that he has great hands, and migraines aside, is a pretty tough guy. He will be on the field to make people pay attention to him as much for his teammates as he is to have specially designed plays for him to get the ball.

    All of those plays that teams who run proficient offenses that get 5 to 6 yards from "Edlemen", "Welker", "Sproles", "Bell" have those types of players who just get a simple hitch, and the next thing you know the opposing D is looking at 2 & 4. Harvin is that guy with the ability to take to the house with some blocking.

    BTW, Decker & Kerley aren't the only ones who will benefit...Watch CJ out of the backfield now!
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    Post by Superman55 on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 9:58

    skop wrote:
    soj wrote:
    Seaver wrote:I'm taking a wait and see approach to Harvin.  He's an odd fit as he isn't a disciplined route runner and essentially needs his own package.  Special teams should benefit immediately.  I'm looking at this as no more than a better way to evaluate Geno and help the GM decide which round he needs to draft another QB to compete next year.

    Welcome Seaver...saw your post and did a double take.  Anyway, I hope your wrong and he turns into a valuable WR/KR, just saying.


    Actually, there is some truth to Seaver's point. He isn't necessarily a receiver. At Florida, he was a RB who was also a receiver.

    http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/percy-harvin-1.html

    But it cannot be understated that he has great hands, and migraines aside, is a pretty tough guy. He will be on the field to make people pay attention to him as much for his teammates as he is to have specially designed plays for him to get the ball.

    All of those plays that teams who run proficient offenses that get 5 to 6 yards from "Edlemen", "Welker", "Sproles", "Bell" have those types of players who just get a simple hitch, and the next thing you know the opposing D is looking at 2 & 4. Harvin is that guy with the ability to take to the house with some blocking.

    BTW, Decker & Kerley aren't the only ones who will benefit...Watch CJ out of the backfield now!

    Yes, CJ2k should be huge. CJ2k goes one side out of the back field, Harvin the other, Amaro across the middle, Decker and Kerley getting outside, spreads a defense out, opens creases, and causes mismatches! Which one do you put a LB on? Where does the safeties help?
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    Post by Old#15 on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 10:19

    Spreading the defense also means, and maybe to a greater degree, the running game should flourish.
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    Post by skop on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 10:56

    Old#15 wrote:Spreading the defense also means, and maybe to a greater degree, the running game should flourish.  

    I think 55 nailed it when he said open creases. Watch our passing game, and it looks anything but fluid, and that's due to clogged lanes. you are going to see streaking receivers in open spaces.

    I never thought about him, but this might just be the perfect addition to this offense...a guy who doesn't need Manning or Brady to look good, but an able body to get him the ball & let's him do the rest.

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    Post by Blindsidebrick on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 12:18

    Percy Harvvin, alone, isn't going to turn around the fortunes of this team. We need more consistent o-line and secondary play, too.

    Just sayin'.
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    Post by NCgreen12 on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 12:42

    Maybe along with seeing if Geno can be a long term answer the same could be said about MM's ability to utilize a weapon like Percy where he can make an impact. I think he's been average+ as a OC and terrible in calling plays in the redzone. However, compared to his two predecessors he looks like a genius..
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    Post by GratefulJet on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 12:49

    NCgreen12 wrote:Maybe along with seeing if Geno can be a long term answer the same could be said about MM's ability to utilize a weapon like Percy where he can make an impact. I think he's been average+ as a OC and terrible in calling plays in the redzone. However,  compared to his two predecessors he looks like a genius..

    All agreed.
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    Post by soj on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 16:29

    Blindsidebrick wrote:Percy Harvvin, alone, isn't going to turn around the fortunes of this team. We need more consistent o-line and secondary play, too.

    Just sayin'.

    agree and would add that the last two games the OL has improved...
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    Post by football51 on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 16:38

    Gregg Bell @gbellseattle · 58m 58 minutes ago
    Russell Wilson: "Percy Harvin & I never had differences...Ignore the noise...there is no division in our locker room" #Seahawks
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    Post by Superman55 on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 17:01

    football51 wrote:Gregg Bell @gbellseattle  ·  58m 58 minutes ago
    Russell Wilson: "Percy Harvin & I never had differences...Ignore the noise...there is no division in our locker room" #Seahawks

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/23/russell-wilson-percy-harvin-and-i-had-no-differences-media-blew-it-up/

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    Post by skop on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 17:06

    Blindsidebrick wrote:Percy Harvvin, alone, isn't going to turn around the fortunes of this team. We need more consistent o-line and secondary play, too.

    Just sayin'.

    I don't know that anyone did say that, but a player like him can bolster the value & efficacy of the other weapons on the offense.

    BTW, just suppose Ivory lines up behind Harvin in an I, and Harvin motions into the slot...I bet defenders are moving with him, and I also bet Ivory (if he gets the ball) has a lot easier of a time running between the tackles w/o a LB in his face...there's your OLine getting better.

    How many first downs does a guy like that get you? my guess is quite a few...there's your secondary getting better.
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    Post by Superman55 on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 19:49

    skop wrote:
    Blindsidebrick wrote:Percy Harvvin, alone, isn't going to turn around the fortunes of this team. We need more consistent o-line and secondary play, too.

    Just sayin'.

    I don't know that anyone did say that, but a player like him can bolster the value & efficacy of the other weapons on the offense.

    BTW, just suppose Ivory lines up behind Harvin in an I, and Harvin motions into the slot...I bet defenders are moving with him, and I also bet Ivory (if he gets the ball) has a lot easier of a time running between the tackles w/o a LB in his face...there's your OLine getting better.

    How many first downs does a guy like that get you? my guess is quite a few...there's your secondary getting better.


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    Post by Superman55 on Thu 23 Oct 2014 - 20:11

    Interesting stat referenced on Sirius on the drive home:

    Percy Harvin as a rookie with Favre -

    Favre threw 38 passes to Harvin that traveled at least 10 yards in the air...of those: Percy caught 22 of the 38 passes for 4 YDs and 0 INTs.

    This year with Russell Wilson, Harvin has caught 1 of 4 pass attempts that traveled 10 yards or more for 0 TDs and 1 INT.

    Percy kept requesting more plays down the field from Carroll and like Pete said, he couldn't find a way to make that work in his offense.

    Im sure Marty will eventually implement him in a Maclin/DJax type role.
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    Post by Seaver on Fri 24 Oct 2014 - 11:48

    Jets are basically gonna have to squeeze deep routes out of him to make this work. They need a legit outside threat with speed to stretch the field. Kerley gets eaten alive physically and thus cannot get downfield in time. Harvin is gonna have to adjust to playing outside to bring full value to the Jets. You need the deep threat to keep the defenses honest and not flood the short routes. Harvin the has the size to do it, but I don't know that he has the route discipline going downfield.
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    Post by Superman55 on Fri 24 Oct 2014 - 11:56

    Seaver wrote:Jets are basically gonna have to squeeze deep routes out of him to make this work.  They need a legit outside threat with speed to stretch the field.  Kerley gets eaten alive physically and thus cannot get downfield in time.  Harvin is gonna have to adjust to playing outside to bring full value to the Jets.  You need the deep threat to keep the defenses honest and not flood the short routes.  Harvin the has the size to do it, but I don't know that he has the route discipline going downfield.

    It's what he has been asking for since he left the Vikings, so its time to prove he has what it takes to do what he wants. We'll see. There were some good articles yesterday from our WR coach saying they blocked him from the media all week so he could work exclusively on learning the playbook and spend time with Geno. I do look forward to seeing him play Sunday for sure to see what they cooked up.

    You dont read professionals in awe much of players, I remember they were when Favre was here. A little with Revis for sure. Put every player interviewed, even tough guys like Willie Colon, have been saying nothing but how did Seattle let a guy this talented go? It will be interesting to see for sure.
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    Post by Seaver on Fri 24 Oct 2014 - 12:24

    I will be a Harvin fan if he proves to be more than a line of scrimmage gadget player.
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    Post by Superman55 on Fri 24 Oct 2014 - 14:01

    Seaver wrote:I will be a Harvin fan if he proves to be more than a line of scrimmage gadget player.  

    Oh, you think he's Devin Hester?

    Be prepared to be a fan.
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    Post by football51 on Fri 24 Oct 2014 - 14:20

    Chris Lopresti @CLoprestiWFAN · 52m 52 minutes ago
    Rex doesn't expect Harvin to reach 50 snaps because he's only been here for a week but admits he could be bluffing. #NYJ




    Chris Lopresti @CLoprestiWFAN · 49m 49 minutes ago
    Rex: It "definitely gets the antenna up" for an opposing defense when you can put speedy players like Harvin & CJ on field together. #NYJ




    Chris Lopresti @CLoprestiWFAN · 45m 45 minutes ago
    Rex on their '09 draft research for Harvin: I can't remember spending more time on another individual. #NYJ


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    Post by Blindsidebrick on Fri 24 Oct 2014 - 14:37

    skop wrote:
    Blindsidebrick wrote:Percy Harvvin, alone, isn't going to turn around the fortunes of this team. We need more consistent o-line and secondary play, too.

    Just sayin'.

    I don't know that anyone did say that, but a player like him can bolster the value & efficacy of the other weapons on the offense.

    BTW, just suppose Ivory lines up behind Harvin in an I, and Harvin motions into the slot...I bet defenders are moving with him, and I also bet Ivory (if he gets the ball) has a lot easier of a time running between the tackles w/o a LB in his face...there's your OLine getting better.

    How many first downs does a guy like that get you? my guess is quite a few...there's your secondary getting better.

    I think people are setting unrealistic expectations if they think one player's presence is going to single-handedly turn around 1-6. That's
    all I'm saying. Yes, Harvin can impact the way defenses cover Decker and Kerley, and possibly force them to change their overall approach. But our o-line and secondary struggles are more the result of talent deficiencies. I'm not convinced of anything yet regarding Harvin. I like the signing, but there are still questions about him fitting in here scheme-wise, and personality-wise. The honeymoon's over. We've got to see it from Harvin. Transplanting players from one team to another is no guarantee for success.
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    Post by Superman55 on Fri 24 Oct 2014 - 14:40

    Jets trade for Percy Harvin - Page 7 16162631-mmmain
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    Post by skop on Fri 24 Oct 2014 - 15:12

    Blindsidebrick wrote:
    skop wrote:
    Blindsidebrick wrote:Percy Harvvin, alone, isn't going to turn around the fortunes of this team. We need more consistent o-line and secondary play, too.

    Just sayin'.

    I don't know that anyone did say that, but a player like him can bolster the value & efficacy of the other weapons on the offense.

    BTW, just suppose Ivory lines up behind Harvin in an I, and Harvin motions into the slot...I bet defenders are moving with him, and I also bet Ivory (if he gets the ball) has a lot easier of a time running between the tackles w/o a LB in his face...there's your OLine getting better.

    How many first downs does a guy like that get you? my guess is quite a few...there's your secondary getting better.

    I think people are setting unrealistic expectations if they think one player's presence is going to single-handedly turn around 1-6. That's
    all I'm saying. Yes, Harvin can impact the way defenses cover Decker and Kerley, and possibly force them to change their overall approach. But our o-line and secondary struggles are more the result of talent deficiencies. I'm not convinced of anything yet regarding Harvin. I like the signing, but there are still questions about him fitting in here scheme-wise, and personality-wise. The honeymoon's over. We've got to see it from Harvin. Transplanting players from one team to another is no guarantee for success.


    I appreciate that. I just happen to think the offense was really close to being a viable offense when the season started. Harvin's skillsets gets them there, IMO. But I see what you mean.
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